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dabvu2498
06-25-2006, 09:57 PM
Bad idea???


NCAA considers expanding men’s basketball tournament to 128 teams
The Columbus Dispatch
Sunday, June 25, 2006
INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — In a perfect world, college basketball coaches would nearly double the size of the 65-team NCAA men's tournament field. Realistically, they'd accept a smaller victory.

Motivated in part by George Mason's remarkable Final Four run last season, coaches will urge the NCAA to expand its most lucrative championship event during the men's and women's basketball committee meetings in Orlando, Fla., this week.

“They'd love to see the tournament double to 128,” said Jim Haney, executive director of the National Association of Basketball Coaches. “It's based on several things. First, there are a lot of good teams worthy of making the NCAA field, and second, the size of 64 or 65 has been in place for a number of years.”

Potential models range from minor adjustments to major changes.

When Haney met with NCAA officials last month, he proposed the 128-team field in part because postseason bids may help coaches keep their jobs.

At this year's Final Four, though, Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim said he supported expansion on a smaller scale. Boeheim and others suggested adding three to seven teams, a move they claimed would allow as many as four opening-round games to be played in Dayton, Ohio, instead of the one now played between the two lowest-seeded teams in the field.

Some believe such a schedule would create a more realistic tournament environment since first-round sites also play four games on the first day.

But changes don't appear imminent.

In March, NCAA president Myles Brand said he didn't see much support to expand the field and vice president for men's basketball Greg Shaheen reiterated that point Friday.

“Many, many people believe the size of the championship is just right,” Shaheen said. “A lot of people think there's enough recognition of teams that did well and there's a logical and timely conclusion to the season.”

Shaheen said this week's discussions, which end Thursday, will mark the first time expansion has been on the agenda in several years. The reason?

After a four-year legal battle with the National Invitation Tournament, the NCAA agreed to buy the tournament for $56.5 million last August.

Expansion also faces additional hurdles.

If the NCAA opted for a 128-team field, the number of first-round sites would double and an extra week of play would likely be added. Plus, Shaheen said the NCAA would have to debate how best to provide maximum television coverage.

Shaheen said changes would also have to be made in conjunction with the women's tournament.

“There is no one model that is obvious here, and that's something we need to contemplate,” he said. “The other issue is how the women's tournament would be similarly impacted here and they need to coincide.”

The coaches, however, contend there are many reasons to expand. Among their arguments:

-- The number of Division I teams has increased significantly since the last major expansion more than two decades ago. The field went from 48 to 64 teams in 1985, then added a 65th team to the field in 2001 when the number of automatic bids went from 30 to 31.

-- George Mason, which was one of the last at-large teams to make the field this year, proved parity in college basketball is real. The combination of prominent programs losing underclassmen at faster rates and scholarship reductions have helped mid-major schools become more competitive. The coaches believe they deserved to be rewarded accordingly.

-- Now that the NCAA controls both postseason tournaments, coaches think it's time to include some of the bubble teams that annually complain when they are left out.

Could it happen?

“I don't think the idea of doubling the field is going to happen right now because there are too many complications to do that,” Haney said. “But I think the committee will seriously consider what the number will be. … I think if it happens, it will have to happen soon because of the logistical issues.”

Reds4Life
06-25-2006, 10:07 PM
Bad idea. It's fine as is, we don't need it to end up like college bowls where marginal teams get in.

George Mason's run last season isn't enough reason to screw with a system that works. They got lucky 1 year, good for them, but don't ruin the tourney because of it.

KronoRed
06-25-2006, 10:29 PM
An extra weekend of games? :D

max venable
06-25-2006, 10:32 PM
I'd be for it. Why not? Sounds like fun.

FindlayRed
06-25-2006, 10:32 PM
A great idea IMO. Wonder if they would keep the 4 brackets and have #1 vs. #32, or have 8 brackets and keep #1 vs. #16

Reds Fanatic
06-25-2006, 11:39 PM
I don't think they will expand it to 128 at this point. I actually think the tournament is a perfect size right now. At most I think you may see a few extra teams. Instead of being one play in game in Dayton you could see up to 4 play in games that would determine each of the 16 seeds. That is a more likely change at this point then going to 128 teams.

macro
06-26-2006, 12:13 AM
I saw no reason to expand it beyond 64. There's always going to be four or five or so teams unhappy, regardless of where the line is drawn, so why not keep it all nice and symetrical at 64? If there's 72 teams invited, then teams 73, 74, 75, and 76 are going to be mad and feel slighted. If there are 128 teams invited, then teams 129, 130, 131, 132, and 133 are going to be mad and feel slighted.

If they have any interest in crowning a true champion, they'd go with less teams and make the tournament double-elimination. On the other hand, if they wanted to do it the silliest way possible, they'd do what college football does and let a computer decide the two teams to play the championship and have the other 62 teams play meaningless exhibition games. :p:

MrCinatit
06-26-2006, 12:21 AM
If they expand it enough, perhaps there will be a chance of seeing the Edison State Community College Cavliers in there.

Caveat Emperor
06-26-2006, 12:40 AM
Bad idea. It's fine as is, we don't need it to end up like college bowls where marginal teams get in.

George Mason's run last season isn't enough reason to screw with a system that works. They got lucky 1 year, good for them, but don't ruin the tourney because of it.

You also don't want it to end up like college bowl games where just showing up to play in a power conference is often all you need to make a postseason appearence while good, competitive confrences struggle to make the dance.

I'd be in favor of capping tournament eligibility for conferences and/or making having a winning record in conference play (OR winning the confrence tournament) a requirement for making the NCAA tournament.

Chip R
06-26-2006, 12:48 AM
While this might help the so called "mid major" conference schools out, I think it would devalue the regular season.

macro
06-26-2006, 01:02 AM
While this might help the so called "mid major" conference schools out, I think it would devalue the regular season.

Yes, and I think the regular season is already devalued enough. As (somewhat of a) UK fan, I really don't pay much attention to them during the regular season, because they go through four months of basketball just to determine a seeding for a tournament. The games really don't matter much to many programs until the NCAA tournament starts. It wasn't that way when the tournament was 32 teams, and only conference winners (and four or five at-large teams) got to go. A regular season loss could be devastating. I'm not saying they should go below 64 teams by any means, but it certainly should never have been above 64. That play-in game to get it to 65 is just plain silly.

Danny Serafini
06-26-2006, 09:42 AM
128 is a horrible idea. Why not water down the accomplishment of making the tournament even further and invite 256? There's nothing wrong with what they've got, don't fix what isn't broken.

cumberlandreds
06-26-2006, 09:54 AM
Bad idea. Way too many mediocre to bad teams will be in the tourney then. The coaches of the big schools love this idea because they know all they will have to do is go 15-15 and make the tourney. Do you want to see a 15-15 Ole Miss team playing a 34-1 UCLA team in the 1st round? I don't.(Unless you are UCLA fan)

dabvu2498
06-26-2006, 09:59 AM
The only good thing about this is that my alma mater would have made the tourney about 15 straight years. (They've made it 5 of those 15.)

There would still be people complaining and moaning about not making the "Field of 128" (even sounds goofy).

The fact is, all teams are eligible to make the NCAA... just win your conference tourney!!! If it will make them feel better, I'm sure the NCAA would take over the "one-bid" conference tourneys and call them the NCAA tournament... so long as they could make a bunch of dough off of it.

macro
06-26-2006, 10:09 AM
The fact is, all teams are eligible to make the NCAA... just win your conference tourney!!! If it will make them feel better, I'm sure the NCAA would take over the "one-bid" conference tourneys and call them the NCAA tournament... so long as they could make a bunch of dough off of it.

Excellent point. The NCAA tournament is six rounds, and if their conference tournament is four rounds, then they can consider themselves invitees to a ten-round championship tournament! Win all ten and you are the NCAA Champions!

Caveat Emperor
06-26-2006, 01:39 PM
The fact is, all teams are eligible to make the NCAA... just win your conference tourney!!! If it will make them feel better, I'm sure the NCAA would take over the "one-bid" conference tourneys and call them the NCAA tournament... so long as they could make a bunch of dough off of it.

Except that's not really true.

The only real change I'd make immediately to the NCAA tournament is to either eliminate the "Play-In" game, or make it a matchup of two "bubble" teams and have them play for the right to enter the tournament as an at-large #10 seed.

It's complete crap that the tournament officials force confrence champions like Hampton (MEAC tournament champions 2006) to go and play an extra game for the right to enter the tournament. They followed all the rules, won their conference tournament, but were denied their automatic bid to the tournament. If the NCAA doesn't want teams like Hampton or Monmouth in, they should just come clean and get rid of the automatic bid system and hand the spot over to another power conference school. But don't make them play an extra game for their "automatic" bid. That's a joke.

savafan
06-26-2006, 01:43 PM
If they expand it enough, perhaps there will be a chance of seeing the Edison State Community College Cavliers in there.


haha, no, I still doubt that happens. :D

dabvu2498
06-26-2006, 02:31 PM
If they expand it enough, perhaps there will be a chance of seeing the Edison State Community College Cavliers in there.
It won't happen, especially since they're the Chargers.

Maybe the Wright State-Lake Lakers will get in though.

savafan
06-26-2006, 02:38 PM
It won't happen, especially since they're the Chargers.

Maybe the Wright State-Lake Lakers will get in though.

Correct, Lehman High School is the Cavaliers.

MrCinatit
06-26-2006, 06:55 PM
It won't happen, especially since they're the Chargers.
Maybe the Wright State-Lake Lakers will get in though.

Oops. Okay, so it's been a few years...:p:

Heath
06-27-2006, 12:43 PM
It won't happen, especially since they're the Chargers.

Maybe the Wright State-Lake Lakers will get in though.

If you are thinking that it's that easy to get in, you must absolutely never count out the Sinclair Tartans.

Speaking of your 128 teams, can you imagine the Pool sheets on THAT? It would be two sheets and HORRIBLE to score.

:D

BuckeyeRed27
06-27-2006, 11:11 PM
This could be one of the worst ideas in the history of bad ideas.
The college tournament should be smaller if anything. The regular season means nothing.
One of the reasons that football has become much more popular than basektball (both college and pro) is that each weekend those games mean so much. If you lose one game in college football you probably just lost out on playing for the national championship. I think that makes it far cooler because the whole season is a playoff.
Basketball is a little bit easier sport to score an upset so you don't want anything like footballs system, but watering it down anymore would be awful. The season has to mean something.

kyred14
06-28-2006, 12:31 AM
It has something to do with George Mason, alright. The big conferences want their money. They don't like the little taking "their" spots. And if they want it, NCAA will probably give to them. They're all about the money too, ya know.

Reds Fanatic
06-29-2006, 04:01 PM
The NCAA made a good decision and is keeping the tournament at 65 teams.


The NCAA Tournament will remain at 65 teams for the foreseeable future after the men's basketball committee decided against any kind of expansion at its annual spring meetings this week in Orlando.

A news release is expected to be issued by the NCAA.

The National Association of Basketball Coaches had been pushing to expand the tournament beyond the 65 with a number to be determined. The NABC saw the access to the tournament as one of the reasons to expand, especially in light of the run by mid-majors of late and a few bubble teams not making the field that some coaches were convinced should have been included.

Before the meeting, members of the committee like outgoing chair Craig Littlepage showed little enthusiasm for the proposal. The committee needed to see the great cause to expanding the tournament, how that would occur and in what format.

There also are contractual issues that make expansion a non-issue for years to come. Creating more rounds would alter the postseason dates that would run into other programming on CBS, the network of the championship.

Ultimately, the NCAA views conference tournaments as a way for all teams to have access to the NCAA Tournament. Teams that win conference tournaments (everyone has one now except for the Ivy) get into the field.

dabvu2498
06-29-2006, 04:13 PM
The NCAA made a good decision and is keeping the tournament at 65 teams.
Not sure when the TV contract will be renegotiated, but when it is, I'd bet we'll have a 7 round tourney.

Oh well, it's not like I'm not going to watch it if they do.

15fan
06-29-2006, 04:13 PM
It has something to do with George Mason, alright. The big conferences want their money. They don't like the little taking "their" spots. And if they want it, NCAA will probably give to them. They're all about the money too, ya know.

The fact that a mid-major made it to the Final Four is going to have an incredibly insignifcant impact on the payouts to the other conferences in the next 6 (or is it 7 years?).

CAA teams will see a boost of a couple hundred thousand dollars over the next several years. That's a significant boost to the CAA teams, but that's a drop in the bucket to schools in the ACC / Pac 10 / Big 11, etc.

As far as the idea of expanding to 128 teams, that would have meant that the NIT champ would've had to chant "We're #129!"

(Can you imagine how horrible the basketball in the NIT would've been if they had to take teams #129 - 160? Ugh. )

Danny Serafini
06-29-2006, 04:29 PM
(Can you imagine how horrible the basketball in the NIT would've been if they had to take teams #129 - 160? Ugh. )

Just for giggles, here are teams #129-160 in the RPI last year:

129 Drexel 15-16
130 Buffalo 18-13
131 Oral Roberts 20-11
132 Southern U 19-12
133 Illinois-Chicago 16-14
134 Fordham 16-16
135 Tennessee Tech 17-12
136 Texas Tech 15-17
137 St. John's 12-15
138 Loyola (Chicago) 17-11
139 Missouri 12-16
140 UL Lafayette 13-16
141 San Diego 17-12
142 Eastern Washington 14-15
143 Lipscomb 21-10
144 Monmouth 18-14
145 Fairleigh Dickinson 19-11
146 Virginia Tech 14-16
147 Oregon 14-18
148 Toledo 19-11
149 Loyola Marymount 12-18
150 Lehigh 17-12
151 Colorado St 14-15
152 Rhode Island 14-14
153 Long Beach St 17-12
154 Sacramento St 13-15
155 Austin Peay 17-14
156 Mississippi 14-16
157 Gardner-Webb 17-12
158 IUPUI 17-10
159 Georgia Southern 18-9
160 Georgia Tech 11-17

Enjoy that tournament!

KronoRed
06-29-2006, 07:26 PM
The Georgia Tech/Georgia Southern battle would be something

:D

Benny-Distefano
06-30-2006, 10:26 AM
I think they should expand it to 256...no, 512... no, just make it a gig of RAM.

Wait... what were we talking about again?