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View Full Version : If the Reds are gonna go for it...



Falls City Beer
06-26-2006, 09:29 PM
they're probably going to need another bat. Whom should the Reds pursue? Bench? Everyday hitter? Speedster? Contact guy?

Some ideas welcome.

pedro
06-26-2006, 09:31 PM
they're probably going to need another bat. Whom should the Reds pursue? Bench? Everyday hitter? Speedster? Contact guy?

Some ideas welcome.


Can they really afford to trade for a bat when the BP is in such shambles?

Wouldn't they just be better off calling up Denofria?

M2
06-26-2006, 09:37 PM
Bat?

They'll get the one when Encarnacion returns.

If the Reds were to burn what little trade resources they have on a bat, I'd put a few holes in the wall.

SunDeck
06-26-2006, 09:39 PM
they're probably going to need another bat. Whom should the Reds pursue? Bench? Everyday hitter? Speedster? Contact guy?

Some ideas welcome.

I just don't think Johnny Bench is going to be able to help them much.

KronoRed
06-26-2006, 09:39 PM
Only trades for BP help should be allowed, if a bat comes with them that's fine.

Reds1
06-26-2006, 09:40 PM
I think if we are serious it's RP we need over a bat. We have speed, power, and flexibility. Get EE back and we have even more of that. Defense is a little concern, but getting Castro helps in the late innings. I personally would like the best players to be the best defense, but with EE, FeLO, and Dunn I don't mind a late inning replacement with Freel and Castro. Not nightly, but everynow and then. I hate to lose Dunn's potential bat in one swing, but Castro for one of the IF positions from time to time is a good thing.

GAC
06-26-2006, 09:43 PM
Improve this bullpen, and you vastly improve your chances.

As the halfway mark approaches, and teams that may be out of it are looking to make a deal (unload), the "problem" before this organization is what talent, and at what level, will it cost us to acquire that player(s)?

These are the type of situations that that will show Krivsky's metal. ;)

M2
06-26-2006, 09:51 PM
but Castro for one of the IF positions from time to time is a good thing.

If by "good thing" you mean "torture device devised by none less than Satan himself," then I agree.

Red in Chicago
06-26-2006, 09:57 PM
hey, castro is hitting 10 points higher than dunn;)

Reds1
06-26-2006, 09:58 PM
If by "good thing" you mean "torture device devised by none less than Satan himself," then I agree.

:)

GADawg
06-26-2006, 10:21 PM
yep I agree the bullpen is the most immediate concern..but...playing along with the bat thing if the braves wise up and start to unload(even during this offseason)I'd sure like to see 'ole Chipper switch-hitting in the middle of the Reds lineup. Chipper would make a nice first baseman for "us" for the next few years.

Falls City Beer
06-26-2006, 10:42 PM
Well, I didn't say a bat in lieu of pitching help; rather a bat in addition.... I really feel like a bat could be gotten cheaply and could help stave off damage done to this team by pitchers who throw strikes (the schmucks!!). :cry:

westofyou
06-26-2006, 10:49 PM
I really feel like a bat could be gotten cheaply and could help stave off damage done to this team by pitchers who throw strikes (the schmucks!!).At what position is this bat going to play?

As for spare bats the corner positions in MLB seem to be at a low point.

Falls City Beer
06-26-2006, 10:54 PM
At what position is this bat going to play?

As for spare bats the corner positions in MLB seem to be at a low point.

Well, I was thinkin' you guys would have some ideas. Right now, I dislike Kearns', Rich's, Hatteberg's, Junior's bats--I'd like to pick up a 1Bman and perhaps play Denorfia instead Kearns, whose bat is literally putting me to sleep.

Just looking to change the dynamic of what I consider to be a pretty stale lineup, with the exception of a few players.

But if y'all wanna keep smashing yer head against the bullpen rock, have at it. :)

I was juss trying to think of another way to skin the postseason cat.

boobhat
06-26-2006, 11:09 PM
i would like to see the reds go out and get a rp with maybe a prospect sp involved by moving ross or larue, whichever can net them more

boobhat
06-26-2006, 11:10 PM
i would also like to see denoforia play

edabbs44
06-26-2006, 11:19 PM
I could go for a trade of either Griffey or Dunn. They will probably net the most. Call up Deno and finally see if this guy can contribute. For either Grif or Dunn you could probably get a bullpen arm and/or starter and another bat. The CWS might like Griffey and have excess SP since their rotation is signed long-term (I believe) and still have McCarthy.

KronoRed
06-26-2006, 11:24 PM
JR won't bring much of anything unless he gets hot soon, 30+ million over the next 3 years does that.

Dunn is cold so value is low, Lopez would bring the most IMO

reds44
06-26-2006, 11:26 PM
JR won't bring much of anything unless he gets hot soon, 30+ million over the next 3 years does that.

Dunn is cold so value is low, Lopez would bring the most IMO
Felipe isn't cold?

Griffey would net you nothing, Lopez or Dunn would net you the most. I wouldn't mind seeing us trade one of them.

TeamBoone
06-27-2006, 01:40 AM
I hate to see the guys go that have helped the Reds get to where they are.

I know that's not fashionable, but it's the way I feel.

KronoRed
06-27-2006, 01:44 AM
But where are they? If the Cards weren't spazzing of late we'd be 7-10 back :help:

Plenty of O to let some of it go to help the pen

redsrule2500
06-27-2006, 01:48 AM
I'm gonna go with...Bullpen

Nugget
06-27-2006, 02:02 AM
Agree Bullpen needs the most help and I would say that we could trade away an outfielder to get that help. Without naming names you probably won't need to give up Dunn, Junior or Kearns (if we're serious about making a run - I don't think you choose that time and to give a guys a full shot at the show) I'd say the best trade is to move your surplus parts for the reliever. That means LaRue or Valentin.

Two teams which may have a need are SF and PHI. SF have the better pen to deal to IMO given that PHI decided to pick up Rick White.

Topcat
06-27-2006, 02:05 AM
FCB wants a bat I say lets get him a bat:D . first off send Felo (boras client) and deno to Twinkies acquire in return Cuddyer, Sierra, (p) Scott Baker and (p)Juan Rincon. This deal can also be expanded by sending Jason Larue who can spell mauer at times when he cover for morneau at first. It improves there offence and just to be fair we take back Rondell White and the big sweat Reyes:feedback: . To me this trade gets old Jerry narron all gidddy with some vet bench players and also addresses our relief problems some. For minnesota it adds to there offense which is needed and if the hold up is a (rp) goin back send them burns or wagner heck any of that triple aaa junk.

RedsMan3203
06-27-2006, 03:25 AM
Trade Lopez while you can.... Get Dunner LT'ed and move him to 1st.... And leave him.... Who cares about anything else.......

Call Deno up to play left or center.. doesn't matter...

Get a couple arms for the pen.... Lets go win us the divison.

Falls City Beer
06-27-2006, 09:35 AM
If you're going by runs scored and team OPS, the Reds are pedestrian--middle of the pack. In fact, the Reds have scored only 13 more runs than offensive laughingstock Houston.

RFS62
06-27-2006, 09:38 AM
Survey says..... Bullpen

Krusty
06-27-2006, 09:40 AM
Go for the Indians closer Bob Wickman. He would be a rental player since he will be a free agent at the end of the season. But when you're within two games of the division leader, you have to go for it.

MartyFan
06-27-2006, 09:51 AM
Wickman? Is he a 10/5 guy? If so, I don't think he is going anywhere....he really likes Cleveland.

Falls City Beer
06-27-2006, 09:53 AM
Okay, didn't realize this was an either/or question: bullpen or offense. Forget it.

OldXOhio
06-27-2006, 09:55 AM
Dunn is cold so value is low

I'm guessing if WK were to approach other GMs about Dunn, they'd somehow find a way to overcome such a short sighted view.

Highlifeman21
06-27-2006, 09:59 AM
Wickman? Is he a 10/5 guy? If so, I don't think he is going anywhere....he really likes Cleveland.

All the little chicks with the crimson lips yellin Cleveland Rocks, Cleveland Rocks...

Many wiser than me have pointed out Griffey's lack of trade value (10/5, veto, etc), and others wiser seem to be picking sides of the trade Dunn vs. trade Lopez.

I'd like to enlist in the trade Lopez army.

I feel that Lopez isn't helping us with the glove up the middle, and to steal FCB's word, he's become very pedestrian of late with his bat. Phillips will definitely cool off with his bat, and I've come to accept that, but I really think he's the future of the organization at SS. That's right, I said it.

That leaves us with either going out and getting FCB's said bat, or plugging Freel into the everyday lineup. I think either trading Denorfia for another helping bat, or using him as the 4th OF in place of McCracken would also increase the quality bats at Narron's disposal off the bench.

As for the bullpen, we need to get the roster to 2 catchers, and at this point in time, trade whichever one gets us more in return.

Krusty
06-27-2006, 10:17 AM
Wickman? Is he a 10/5 guy? If so, I don't think he is going anywhere....he really likes Cleveland.

He is a free agent at the end of the season. He can go back to Cleveland during the offseason. But a chance of possibly hooking up with a playoff contender would be better the last two months of the season than staying with Cleveland and playing for nothing.

Krusty
06-27-2006, 10:19 AM
All the little chicks with the crimson lips yellin Cleveland Rocks, Cleveland Rocks...

Many wiser than me have pointed out Griffey's lack of trade value (10/5, veto, etc), and others wiser seem to be picking sides of the trade Dunn vs. trade Lopez.

I'd like to enlist in the trade Lopez army.

I feel that Lopez isn't helping us with the glove up the middle, and to steal FCB's word, he's become very pedestrian of late with his bat. Phillips will definitely cool off with his bat, and I've come to accept that, but I really think he's the future of the organization at SS. That's right, I said it.

That leaves us with either going out and getting FCB's said bat, or plugging Freel into the everyday lineup. I think either trading Denorfia for another helping bat, or using him as the 4th OF in place of McCracken would also increase the quality bats at Narron's disposal off the bench.

As for the bullpen, we need to get the roster to 2 catchers, and at this point in time, trade whichever one gets us more in return.

I'm guilty as the next guy for trade proposals but do you really want to upset the roster by trading your everyday players during the season while they are in contention for a playoff spot?

Maybe you add a couple of pieces to bolster you for the stretch run. But any thoughts of seriously trading Dunn and Lopez won't happen to the offseason.

Johnny Footstool
06-27-2006, 10:23 AM
So a cold streak and a leadoff-hitter approach (requested by his own semi-idiotic manager) has made people forget about Lopez's All-Star season last year.

And a hot streak has made people forget that Brandon Phillips has never really hit well on any level until this season. Reminds me of Pokey Reese circa 1999.

registerthis
06-27-2006, 10:29 AM
And a hot streak has made people forget that Brandon Phillips has never really hit well on any level until this season. Reminds me of Pokey Reese circa 1999.

I would happily take Pokey circa 1999, it was Pokey circa the rest of his career that i'd like to avoid. I think it's unfair to lump Phillips in that category simply because he happens to be a young middle infielder with a smooth glove who is surprising everyone with his bat. I don't think anyone is "forgetting" Felipe, it's just that at this point there isn't really any doubt that Phillips is outplaying him, regardless of what FeLo may have done last year. Whether that will last, who knows?

lollipopcurve
06-27-2006, 10:56 AM
Brandon Phillips has never really hit well on any level until this season.

Have you looked carefully at his minor league numbers? He was quite good for a couple years, then got rushed. He can hit -- it's no illusion.

M2
06-27-2006, 11:18 AM
The Reds are 3rd in the NL in OPS, 3rd in OB, 2nd in SLG, 4th in scoring. They haven't gotten the kind of scoring separation you'd hope for yet, but, IMO, that has a lot to do with the NL being a fairly muddled mess at this point in time. As long as the Reds continue doing the right things at the plate, they'll stay in front of what should be an ever-winnowing scoring heap behind them.

RedLegSuperStar
06-27-2006, 11:49 AM
Wouldn't they just be better off calling up Denofria?

I agree, we got a guy in Louisville who can hit for contact, has some speed, and a little pop in CD. I think we need to bolster this bullpen, and add a starter. Adding a starter would move Claussen to the bullpen.

BuckeyeRedleg
06-27-2006, 11:51 AM
How about an offer for Tom Gordon or Chad Cordero?

Would leatherpants deal with us (for Cordero)?

Maybe put Votto somewhere in the deal, knowing that Dunn will moved to 1B eventually? How about Votto and toolsy B.J. Szymanski for Cordero? Maybe throw in a Homer Bailey and Kearns and go after Nick Johnson as well (keeping Dunn in LF longterm or possibly dealt in the off-season)?

realreds1
06-27-2006, 12:00 PM
I agree, we got a guy in Louisville who can hit for contact, has some speed, and a little pop in CD. I think we need to bolster this bullpen, and add a starter. Adding a starter would move Claussen to the bullpen.


I think so too, but I'd be concerned about pressure situations coming down the stretch or in the playoffs, if this team makes it that far. For that, I'd say Denorfia needs to be up on this club by the All-Star Break... if not a week or two after. Question is: who do you move? I can't wait until this year's deadline. It could get really interesting.

TheBigLebowski
06-27-2006, 12:20 PM
Adding Denorfia to this lineup is worth a good 3-5 runs per inning. I see no need to trade for a bat when we have a guy like that just waiting for the nod.

registerthis
06-27-2006, 12:23 PM
How about an offer for Tom Gordon or Chad Cordero?

Would leatherpants deal with us (for Cordero)?

highly doubt it. Cordero is young, cheap, and effective. Cordero's pretty low on the list of players bowden might be willing to deal, and the Reds probably don't want to pay the price it would take to get someone like him.

Johnny Footstool
06-27-2006, 12:39 PM
Have you looked carefully at his minor league numbers? He was quite good for a couple years, then got rushed. He can hit -- it's no illusion.

I looked. He only broke .800 OPS twice, and his career minor league OPS is .753. Not bad for a middle infielder, but not very impressive, either.

And, like Pokey, he doesn't walk very often.

Barring injury, I'll bank on Lopez having a better career than Phillips.

If the Reds are going to move anyone this season, it shouldn't be Lopez.

BoydsOfSummer
06-27-2006, 01:39 PM
Shealy is blocked in Rockietown by Helton. Somebody figger out a way to get him if you need a stick.

Falls City Beer
06-27-2006, 01:41 PM
Shealy is blocked in Rockietown by Helton. Somebody figger out a way to get him if you need a stick.

Great target. Cheaply acquired too, I imagine.

Heath
06-27-2006, 01:45 PM
Adding Denorfia to this lineup is worth a good 3-5 runs per inning. I see no need to trade for a bat when we have a guy like that just waiting for the nod.


Not that I am disagreeing with you here Dude, but 3-5 runs AN INNING?

Show me the stat projection on that!

Rojo
06-27-2006, 02:18 PM
Barring injury, I'll bank on Lopez having a better career than Phillips.

Depends on how you define "better". Lopez will hit more, but he won't be a SS five years from now.

pedro
06-27-2006, 02:22 PM
Depends on how you define "better". Lopez will hit more, but he won't be a SS five years from now.

I'm not convinced Lopez wil hit better in the long run either. Phillips has an awful quick bat.

registerthis
06-27-2006, 02:52 PM
I'm not convinced Lopez wil hit better in the long run either. Phillips has an awful quick bat.

Yep, people are quick to forget that prior to his breakout year in 2005, Lopez was nothing special, either. Many, in fact, had written him off as a loss. I'm not saying he's necessarily going to revert back to his pre-2005 numbers, but merely pointing out that people are quick to question Phillips' success due to a non-established track record, while forgetting that the same metrics could be applied to Lopez as well.

Falls City Beer
06-27-2006, 03:27 PM
Phillips has an awful quick bat.

So did Willie Greene.

I dislike players that have to have the spurs taken to them to succeed: Kearns, Greene, D'Angelo. It usually means they're going to crap out before their time.

pedro
06-27-2006, 03:31 PM
So did Willie Greene.

true, but I don't think either Lopez of Phillips is going to go that way.

M2
06-27-2006, 03:38 PM
So did Willie Greene.

I dislike players that have to have the spurs taken to them to succeed: Kearns, Greene, D'Angelo. It usually means they're going to crap out before their time.

Yep, though I don't think it applies to Phillips. He was just called up way too young and didn't respond to it well at the time. I'm a firm believer that you've got to give a little latitude that young guys will sometimes be immature. Phillips seems to have rebounded from it with aplomb.

To give Kearns some credit, his work ethic seems to have improved. IMO, his larger problem is that he wears down. While he hasn't been injured I think it's fair to say he's running on a low tank.

Falls City Beer
06-27-2006, 03:44 PM
To give Kearns some credit, his work ethic seems to have improved.

I'm going to take flak for this, but...

I'd argue that Kearns's "work ethic" improved only as far as his waistline's concerned, and that has led people to believe that because he can run faster not being a blob, that must mean he's trying harder or pushing himself more.

Otherwise, I see the guy having just terrible ABs, not hitting for power like he used to, and generally looking unfocused at the dish.

I almost never say this about a major leaguer, but the guy looks like he's phoning it in...a LOT of the time.

Caveat Emperor
06-27-2006, 03:53 PM
The really sad part of the Reds quest for bullpen help is that they have a former 1st round draft pick taking up space in Louisville that can't even get minor league hitters out on a regular basis.

Johnny Footstool
06-27-2006, 03:54 PM
Yep, people are quick to forget that prior to his breakout year in 2005, Lopez was nothing special, either. Many, in fact, had written him off as a loss. I'm not saying he's necessarily going to revert back to his pre-2005 numbers, but merely pointing out that people are quick to question Phillips' success due to a non-established track record, while forgetting that the same metrics could be applied to Lopez as well.

Except that Lopez had a decent batting eye in the minors, and it has improved since he reached the majors. Phillips is a hacker, and hackers are more prone to streaks and slumps.

OnBaseMachine
06-27-2006, 04:00 PM
The really sad part of the Reds quest for bullpen help is that they have a former 1st round draft pick taking up space in Louisville that can't even get minor league hitters out on a regular basis.

I was just thinking about this earlier today. Where would the Reds be right now if Ryan Wagner hadn't been rushed and was pitching up to abilities in the majors right now? With Coffey and Wagner at the back of the bullpen, the Reds would probably be in first place right now.

As for the Reds acquiring a bat for the stretch run, file me under the belief that the Reds will get those extra bats when Edwin Encarnacion comes back from injury and Dunn and Lopez wake up. And they both will, IMO. I expect a huge July out of both of them. I wouldn't be opposed to the Reds acquiring Ryan Shealy to add some extra punch to the lineup, but bullpen arms and an extra SP (Jennings!) should be the first priority.

BuckeyeRedleg
06-27-2006, 04:00 PM
I'm going to take flak for this, but...

I'd argue that Kearns's "work ethic" improved only as far as his waistline's concerned, and that has led people to believe that because he can run faster not being a blob, that must mean he's trying harder or pushing himself more.

Otherwise, I see the guy having just terrible ABs, not hitting for power like he used to, and generally looking unfocused at the dish.

I almost never say this about a major leaguer, but the guy looks like he's phoning it in...a LOT of the time.


And I thought I was the only one that was thinking this.

I feel better now.

Falls City Beer
06-27-2006, 04:05 PM
I was just thinking about this earlier today. Where would the Reds be right now if Ryan Wagner hadn't been rushed and was pitching up to abilities in the majors right now? With Coffey and Wagner at the back of the bullpen, the Reds would probably be in first place right now.

As for the Reds acquiring a bat for the stretch run, file me under the belief that the Reds will get those extra bats when Edwin Encarnacion comes back from injury and Dunn and Lopez wake up. And they both will, IMO. I expect a huge July out of both of them. I wouldn't be opposed to the Reds acquiring Ryan Shealy to add some extra punch to the lineup, but bullpen arms and an extra SP (Jennings!) should be the first priority.

I'd say the secrecy and duration of Encarnacion's DL stay makes me wary of his ability to produce right away...and of his ability to stay healthy for the whole season. I could very easily see him getting shut down for the season in one those typical Reds "Oopsy, he wasn't ready to come off the DL" things they like to pull.

And while Dunn should get hot again, he's not exactly the kind of bat I'm looking for; someone earlier mentioned Chipper Jones--now THAT'S the kind of bat I'm talking about.

pedro
06-27-2006, 04:09 PM
And while Dunn should get hot again, he's not exactly the kind of bat I'm looking for; someone earlier mentioned Chipper Jones--now THAT'S the kind of bat I'm talking about.

too bad Chipper isn't that kind of bat anymore.

Falls City Beer
06-27-2006, 04:11 PM
too bad Chipper isn't that kind of bat anymore.

Eh. Hits for avg., power, knows how to take a walk--excellent contact guy (basically a good Sean Casey). If he can smell blood on a team hungry for the playoffs, he'll contribute again.

Think Will Clark to the Loo five years ago. Ferocious competitive streak.

OnBaseMachine
06-27-2006, 04:12 PM
I'd say the secrecy and duration of Encarnacion's DL stay makes me wary of his ability to produce right away...and of his ability to stay healthy for the whole season. I could very easily see him getting shut down for the season in one those typical Reds "Oopsy, he wasn't ready to come off the DL" things they like to pull.

And while Dunn should get hot again, he's not exactly the kind of bat I'm looking for; someone earlier mentioned Chipper Jones--now THAT'S the kind of bat I'm talking about.

Encarnacion's quotes lead me to believe that his injury isn't as bad as Narron is playing it out to be. I think it's all part of Narron's plan to get Aurilia more playing time. ;)

Chipper would be nice but he's probably too expensive. Shealy would be a solid and cheap target. Or deal Kearns for bullpen help and slide Denorfia into RF.

NJReds
06-27-2006, 04:14 PM
Could probably get Kevin Millar on the cheap. B/u 1st Base, bench player.

pedro
06-27-2006, 04:19 PM
Eh. Hits for avg., power, knows how to take a walk--excellent contact guy (basically a good Sean Casey). If he can smell blood on a team hungry for the playoffs, he'll contribute again.

Think Will Clark to the Loo five years ago. Ferocious competitive streak.

We'll see. And where would you play him? LF? Move Dunn to 1b?

Jones also make 13.6 million this year. and is due approx 35 Million in 2007-2008. I just don;t see that as a good investment.

And I lived in Atlanta for 10 years from 1993-2003 and you're the first person I've ever heard claim that Chipper has a "ferocious competitive streak".

Falls City Beer
06-27-2006, 04:22 PM
We'll see. And where would you play him? LF? Move Dunn to 1b?

Jones also make 13.6 million this year. and is due approx 35 Million in 2007-2008. I just don;t see that as a good investment.

And I lived in Atlanta for 10 years from 1993-2003 and you're the first person I've ever heard claim that Chipper has a "ferocious competitive streak".

Yeah, the money issue probably sinks the deal. Just thinking aloud.

I'd like to get a real bat in here though. There's nothing in the minors and not every DFA is going to be Brandon Phillips.

KronoRed
06-27-2006, 04:30 PM
I'm guessing if WK were to approach other GMs about Dunn, they'd somehow find a way to overcome such a short sighted view.
Depends on the GM, most GM's still value "bat avg, clutch ext" so I doubt he would bring equal value

TeamBoone
06-27-2006, 08:50 PM
I almost never say this about a major leaguer, but the guy looks like he's phoning it in...a LOT of the time.

I'm way more inclined to think this is his nature.... on and off the field.

I've seen him at several Reds Fests and three Spring Trainings. Even talked to him a couple times. He's an extremely laid back, country boy who talks very slowly and deliberately.

It's just the way he is... or appears to be... and that's what I think you are seeing. It's his nature.

CougarQuest
06-28-2006, 01:49 AM
And I lived in Atlanta for 10 years from 1993-2003

Hey, hey, hey!!!
This isn't AA (Atlanta Anonymous), we don't need to read your tails of whoa. :mooner:


:evil:

Jpup
06-28-2006, 07:22 AM
I'm way more inclined to think this is his nature.... on and off the field.

I've seen him at several Reds Fests and three Spring Trainings. Even talked to him a couple times. He's an extremely laid back, country boy who talks very slowly and deliberately.

It's just the way he is... or appears to be... and that's what I think you are seeing. It's his nature.

it's more fun to speculate based on limited knowledge.

Rojo
06-28-2006, 01:37 PM
it's more fun to speculate based on limited knowledge.

As opposed to pontificate based on omniscience.