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View Full Version : Reds extend Narron/Krivsky's Contracts



redsrule2500
06-28-2006, 11:53 AM
Narron through 2008 with option for 09, Krivsky option for 08 was picked up already.

per Reds.com:


CINCINNATI -- The Reds have been surprise playoff contenders this season, but chief executive officer Bob Castellini didn't wait for the race's final outcome to reward his two main architects.

On Wednesday, Castellini announced that manager Jerry Narron received a two-year contract extension through the 2008 season, with a club option for 2009. General manager Wayne Krivsky's option for 2008 was also picked up.

Terms of the deals were not immediately known. The Reds have scheduled a 4:30 p.m. ET press conference at Great American Ball Park.

Although several preseason predictions had them at or near the bottom of their division, the Reds are 41-36 this season and in second place, 1 1/2 games behind the Cardinals in the National League Central. Cincinnati also holds a one-game lead in the still-early NL Wild Card race.

Narron took over as manager on June 21, 2005, originally on an interim basis, after former skipper Dave Miley was dismissed. The interim tag was removed in September when Narron was signed to a one-year deal with a mutual option for 2007.

The 50-year-old has an 87-82 (.515) record in 169 games as Reds manager.

Castellini hired Krivsky on Feb. 8, just days before 2006 Spring Training opened. Krivsky wasted little time trying to improve a team coming off five straight losing seasons.

Three of baseball's best trades this season have been Krivsky moves. In March, right-hander Bronson Arroyo was acquired from Boston for slugger Wily Mo Pena. Catcher David Ross also came over from the Padres for a Minor Leaguer.

And in early April, the Reds got second baseman Brandon Phillips from the Indians for a Minor League pitcher after Phillips' prospect status had faded in Cleveland and he was designated for assignment.

All three acquisitions had detractors at the time, but all have since posted All-Star-caliber numbers this season. Arroyo has won nine games and has a 2.58 ERA. Ross, who is batting .320, is tied for first among NL catchers with 10 homers. Phillips is batting .308 with seven homers and 43 RBIs.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060628&content_id=1527461&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

reds44
06-28-2006, 12:00 PM
Wow.

I think Cast had an itchy trigger finger on this one. What if we collapse in 2nd half and finish near the bottom of the divison anyway?

Krivsky I won't really argue with.

Reds4Life
06-28-2006, 12:04 PM
No problem on the Krivsky extension.

Narron, not really pleased with, at all. It doesn't seem necessary at this point and as reds44 noted, this team could colapse in the second half.

Puffy
06-28-2006, 12:07 PM
Blah, more Narron - yippee.

Rich Aurilia must be happy, he just found himself two more years worth of paydays and batting cleanup.

oneupper
06-28-2006, 12:16 PM
El Senor Aurilia está feliz. El Senor Encarnación está Triste.

smith288
06-28-2006, 12:22 PM
Good move, bad move.

alloverjr
06-28-2006, 12:23 PM
As much as I dislike the Narron extension, at least this early in the season, could this be reinforcement from Cast to not be conservative this year worrying about job security? Bob certainly knows how to manage managers (in business) and maybe this is his vote of confidence. Or, a particulary long paid vacation if they fail ;) . Maybe he's telling them with this contract to not be sheep and be agressive in both of their capacities. Looking for some silver lining with the managerial extension.

StillFunkyB
06-28-2006, 12:31 PM
I think it's a good move. Sets some stability. Maybe Krivs can get a FA or two this offseason.

Red Leader
06-28-2006, 12:32 PM
It mentions in the article that we gave Cleveland a minor league pitcher for Phillips. Anyone know who that pitcher was. I was gone for a week or two and wasn't aware it had been announced.

VR
06-28-2006, 12:45 PM
It mentions in the article that we gave Cleveland a minor league pitcher for Phillips. Anyone know who that pitcher was. I was gone for a week or two and wasn't aware it had been announced.

Jeff Stevens

pedro
06-28-2006, 01:10 PM
Seems a bit early but I do like stability.

Caveat Emperor
06-28-2006, 01:19 PM
Can't argue with the results Narron has produced over his "season"s worth of games that he's managed for the Reds.

If nothing else, this ensures that the front office and coaching staff can go into the offseason knowing that everyone will be around this year and the next.

Red in Chicago
06-28-2006, 01:27 PM
love the pick up on kriv, but the narron extention is disappointing...i think we could have done better...

RFS62
06-28-2006, 01:29 PM
I wonder how much input Krivsky had in the Narron extension.

redsfan30
06-28-2006, 01:39 PM
I wonder how much input Krivsky had in the Narron extension.
Judging from previous personel move, I'd say he was heavily involved.

Krusty
06-28-2006, 01:39 PM
Stability is the key to success for any solid organization.

Strikes Out Looking
06-28-2006, 01:45 PM
great move on Krivsky--a no brainer.

I can see the positive side of Narron, he seems to have a good relationship with most of the players (I'm going to say most because I'm guessing LaRue isn't too crazy about him at the moment).

His negative is his game management, such as no Freel last night, RA batting fourth (and bunting to get on in the 9th inning), and his use of the bullpen (even though Connie Mack, Casey Stengel, Walt Alston and Sparky may have problems with that group).

Thus, as long as the Reds are in contention, Cast and Kriv probably feel that his bonehead moves only cost a few games and is outweighed by his management of the employees (players).

Chip R
06-28-2006, 01:47 PM
No problem on the Krivsky extension.

Narron, not really pleased with, at all. It doesn't seem necessary at this point and as reds44 noted, this team could colapse in the second half.

I agree. The Reds could be missing the boat on hiring a strong manager who would tell, not ask, Jr. and Dunn to move to different positions. Lou Piniella has some warts but I think he could have been that guy.

I'm OK with picking up Wayne's option.

Over/under on how many days Aurilia is signed to a multi-year extention? I say 30.

Kc61
06-28-2006, 01:52 PM
No way to evaluate all this yet until we see Krivsky's "grand design" -- if there is one -- for the team. He hasn't had a full off-season yet. We won't really know exactly what kind of team this will be for awhile.

Maybe with a somewhat different mix of players, Narron will find a different cleanup hitter, along with some different relief pitchers, etc.

RedsManRick
06-28-2006, 02:29 PM
While I can nitpick Narron's decisions with the best of them, you can't deny that the club has played well under him. Of course there are things I'd like to see him do differently, but I don't think there is a manager out there who would necessarily do those things. In any event, I think the benefit of the stability of having Narron around clearly outweights the possible benefit of having a "Better" manager.

Reds1
06-28-2006, 02:32 PM
I love both deals. I think it will instill more confidence in the team that this owner wants to win. The players will like this. Now let's win a freakin home game.

dsmith421
06-28-2006, 02:36 PM
Wouldn't it instill greater confidence in the team that the owner wants to win if he fired a loser like Narron and brought in a proven, intelligent manager?

Matt700wlw
06-28-2006, 02:37 PM
I think it's a little soon on Narron. Not opposed to extending him, but I may have played the "wait and see" game longer.

Extending Krivsky is the absolute right move.

However, now Narron is Castellini's and Krivsky's guy. Now there is stability. Now there's not a conflict of interest like there was with the Lindner, O'Brien, Miley situation. Now there's no excuse or "conspiracy theories"

Just win and all is well. :)

Matt700wlw
06-28-2006, 02:40 PM
Judging from previous personel move, I'd say he was heavily involved.

I would agree.

Reds4Life
06-28-2006, 02:40 PM
I agree. The Reds could be missing the boat on hiring a strong manager who would tell, not ask, Jr. and Dunn to move to different positions. Lou Piniella has some warts but I think he could have been that guy.

I'm OK with picking up Wayne's option.

Over/under on how many days Aurilia is signed to a multi-year extention? I say 30.

I'm with you on Lou. Based on his previous relationship with Griffey if anyone could get him to move from CF it's him.

I don't think Narron is a horrible manager, but he isn't the type of guy that is going to lead this team to post season. For those who don't think having proven manager makes a difference Jim Leyland the Tigers say hello.

I guess this means we'll get scrappy vet Rich hitting in the clean up spot for the next couple years, oh goodie. :rolleyes:

Matt700wlw
06-28-2006, 02:42 PM
.

I don't think Narron is a horrible manager, but he isn't the type of guy that is going to lead this team to post season. For those who don't think having proven manager makes a difference Jim Leyland the Tigers say hello.



So does some really good pitching.

Heath
06-28-2006, 02:47 PM
So does some really good pitching.

Jim Leyland can do his homework.

I'm ok signing Rich Aurilia to a 1 yr deal at 1 Million....to play back up infielder, pictures and all.

I also think that Junior's heading to a corner OF position next year. IMO, the only person to move Junior, is going to be Senior.

Matt700wlw
06-28-2006, 02:50 PM
Jim Leyland can do his homework.

I'm ok signing Rich Aurilia to a 1 yr deal at 1 Million....to play back up infielder, pictures and all.

I also think that Junior's heading to a corner OF position next year. IMO, the only person to move Junior, is going to be Senior.

I agree.

Dunn gone...Griffey to left, Denorfia to CF....?

CTA513
06-28-2006, 02:55 PM
Jim Leyland can do his homework.

I'm ok signing Rich Aurilia to a 1 yr deal at 1 Million....to play back up infielder, pictures and all.

I also think that Junior's heading to a corner OF position next year. IMO, the only person to move Junior, is going to be Senior.

I dont think anyone has the guts to tell/make Griffey move positions.

redsmetz
06-28-2006, 03:00 PM
While I can nitpick Narron's decisions with the best of them, you can't deny that the club has played well under him. Of course there are things I'd like to see him do differently, but I don't think there is a manager out there who would necessarily do those things. In any event, I think the benefit of the stability of having Narron around clearly outweights the possible benefit of having a "Better" manager.

Can you imagine if the web had existed in the BRM days? Sparky would have been skewered day in, day out. Yikes! Every manager is human and Jerry Narron seems to be doing a decent job with the imperfect gang he's been given. If things remain as they are now, standing wise, Narron could easily be a candidate for Manager of the Year.

reds44
06-28-2006, 03:01 PM
I agree.

Dunn gone...Griffey to left, Denorfia to CF....?
I agree with Dunn gone and Griffey to left, but I would like to see the Reds go our and get a legit, speedy leadoff man to play CF.

Jpup
06-28-2006, 03:10 PM
Jerry Narron is putrid. I hate this deal. :thumbdown :thumbdown

Marc D
06-28-2006, 03:13 PM
We just guaranteed a decade of Boone/Miley/Narron. :cry:

cincyinco
06-28-2006, 03:23 PM
Great move on Krivsky, like the rest I'm scratching my head over the Narron extension.

That said, I think some of ya'll are making way too much of it. If Narron fails, he'll be givin the axe. Cast and Krivs have shown a willingness to eat contracts..

Matt700wlw
06-28-2006, 03:25 PM
Great move on Krivsky, like the rest I'm scratching my head over the Narron extension.

That said, I think some of ya'll are making way too much of it. If Narron fails, he'll be givin the axe. Cast and Krivs have shown a willingness to eat contracts..

True. And now they have the power to do that.

Everybody has to be on board now and make this work. If they don't...they'll be unemployed.

OnBaseMachine
06-28-2006, 03:51 PM
Narron is a joke. Extending this boob's contract is horrible news for the Reds young players. He's already screwed up Dunn it appears. Lopez has struggled a bit and it has been reported that Narron wanted less power and more contact out of Lopez this year. The result is a down year. We already know he hates Encarnacion. Horrible decision to extend his contract.

BRM
06-28-2006, 03:55 PM
Tell us how you really feel OBM. ;)

guttle11
06-28-2006, 04:04 PM
Narron is a joke. Extending this boob's contract is horrible news for the Reds young players. He's already screwed up Dunn it appears. Lopez has struggled a bit and it has been reported that Narron wanted less power and more contact out of Lopez this year. The result is a down year. We already know he hates Encarnacion. Horrible decision to extend his contract.


What's Narron's record as the Reds manager again?

Matt700wlw
06-28-2006, 04:06 PM
Narron is a joke. Extending this boob's contract is horrible news for the Reds young players. He's already screwed up Dunn it appears. Lopez has struggled a bit and it has been reported that Narron wanted less power and more contact out of Lopez this year. The result is a down year. We already know he hates Encarnacion. Horrible decision to extend his contract.


Dunn's been screwed up. Sorry, I like the guy to, but he hasn't shown much improvement for several years.

RedLegSuperStar
06-28-2006, 04:07 PM
I guess they didn't want to go with "Sweet Lou" for next season!

Matt700wlw
06-28-2006, 04:07 PM
What's Narron's record as the Reds manager again?

That doesn't matter. :)

Reds4Life
06-28-2006, 04:11 PM
I guess they didn't want to go with "Sweet Lou" for next season!

If Joe Torre retires, or gets fired, we probably wouldn't have gotten him anyway. Still, I would liked to have had a shot.

OnBaseMachine
06-28-2006, 04:13 PM
Dunn's been screwed up. Sorry, I like the guy to, but he hasn't shown much improvement for several years.

No one will improve when they have a manager telling them to swing at pitches out of the strikezone.

Matt700wlw
06-28-2006, 04:16 PM
No one will improve when they have a manager telling them to swing at pitches out of the strikezone.

Or 3 or 4 different coaches telling him 3 or 4 different things for 2 or 3 years of his career (Bob Boone era).

redsmetz
06-28-2006, 04:16 PM
What's Narron's record as the Reds manager again?

Glad you asked! 87-82, a .514 clip - in his career with both the Rangers & the Reds, he's 221-244, a .475 record.

Interestingly, I looked up Tony LaRussa and Jim Leyland's records their first several years. Leyland in his 1st three seasons went 229-255 for a .473 record, finishing in 2nd place his third year. LaRussa went 238-244 in this first four season which included the strike shortened 1981 season. That's a
.493 record - finishing at the highest in 3rd place. Narron is at those same levels with two of the best managers around.

Marc D
06-28-2006, 04:17 PM
If Joe Torre retires, or gets fired, we probably wouldn't have gotten him anyway. Still, I would liked to have had a shot.

The only positive to keep in mind is that managers contracts are pretty small by MLB standards. Kriv will more than likely eliminate the "no talent" excuse soon. If Narron's still sporting this .500 record some seem so fond of at that time it won't cost much to let him join Boone and Miley.

OnBaseMachine
06-28-2006, 04:23 PM
What's Narron's record as the Reds manager again?

Bob Boone once had a good record.

westofyou
06-28-2006, 04:24 PM
Hyperbole flying all over this thread.

RFS62
06-28-2006, 04:37 PM
Hyperbole flying all over this thread.


http://www.imgag.com/product/180278/3081133d.gif

WVRedsFan
06-28-2006, 05:13 PM
I think I've made it clear that Jerry is not my kind of manager or the manager who can lead the Reds to the most success, so You all know how I feel about this extension.

Having said that, it could be worse (Ron Oester is one example). Maybe Krivsky and Castilini are smarter than me (that's a big old "duh") and are willing to give him a better team next year to see what he does. Or maybe he's good and I can't see it. Whatever, remember Miley had another year on his contract and still bit the dust, so I imagine his job security depends on how well the team does. That's ony fair, but through 2008?

Reds4Life
06-28-2006, 05:19 PM
The only positive to keep in mind is that managers contracts are pretty small by MLB standards. Kriv will more than likely eliminate the "no talent" excuse soon. If Narron's still sporting this .500 record some seem so fond of at that time it won't cost much to let him join Boone and Miley.

That's true, but I haven't seen the financial terms of the extension. If we tank the second half perhaps Cast would still dump him, Rick White style. :evil:

dsmith421
06-28-2006, 05:25 PM
What's Narron's record as the Reds manager again?

2005 - 46-46
2006 - 41-36

He's five games over .500. So what? He continually makes stupid decisions, puts young players in positions to fail, and shows no aptitude for making an effective lineup.

And just because LaRussa started that way doesn't make Narron LaRussa. For every Tony LaRussa, who overcomes early mediocrity, there are a hundred Dave Mileys who continue to stink.

Caveat Emperor
06-28-2006, 05:44 PM
2005 - 46-46
2006 - 41-36

He's five games over .500. So what? He continually makes stupid decisions, puts young players in positions to fail, and shows no aptitude for making an effective lineup.

And just because LaRussa started that way doesn't make Narron LaRussa. For every Tony LaRussa, who overcomes early mediocrity, there are a hundred Dave Mileys who continue to stink.


So what? So look at the pitching staffs he's had to work with over that time period and tell me if you really think anyone would've done any better.

I think even playing .500 ball while sending guys like Eric Milton, Brandon Claussen, Rick White, Ramon Ortiz and Joe Mays out there on a regular basis is an amazing accomplishment.

redsrule2500
06-28-2006, 05:58 PM
I agree with Dunn gone and Griffey to left, but I would like to see the Reds go our and get a legit, speedy leadoff man to play CF.


Freel???

Marc D
06-28-2006, 05:59 PM
So what? So look at the pitching staffs he's had to work with over that time period and tell me if you really think anyone would've done any better.

I think even playing .500 ball while sending guys like Eric Milton, Brandon Claussen, Rick White, Ramon Ortiz and Joe Mays out there on a regular basis is an amazing accomplishment.

Well then the NL has some amazing managers because right now 6 different teams have .500 or better records that all have team weaknesses at least as glaring as ours.

To me every manager is handed a team with strengths and weaknesses. While its true Jerrys had some rotten pitchers, he's also had the NL's best offense. What does he do to negate the weakness and amplify the strengths? Hit Aurilia 4th every night and sit there on the top step watching Milton blow a 5-1 lead before he even sticks his head out, thats what.

If people want to give him a pass because he's 5 games over .500 then nothing I can say will ever change their minds but to me the Reds manager has just morphed into a bufoon named Bob Milarron to descirbe this era.

redsmetz
06-28-2006, 06:24 PM
I like the notion of stability in the managerial position. Since Sparky left after the 1978 season, the Reds have had 13 different managers (counting Tommy Helms two stints during Pete Rose's reign) - with Pete Rose having served the longest stint (around 5 years). That's way too much instability and changing year in year out. I'd like to have what we had with Sparky; a guy who sticks around for about ten years. If that's Jerry Narron and we're playing good ball, great!

SirFelixCat
06-28-2006, 06:35 PM
While I can nitpick Narron's decisions with the best of them, you can't deny that the club has played well under him. Of course there are things I'd like to see him do differently, but I don't think there is a manager out there who would necessarily do those things. In any event, I think the benefit of the stability of having Narron around clearly outweights the possible benefit of having a "Better" manager.


This is my feeling as well. I do not always agree with Narron, but he has proved himself with a winning record over his first 160+ games, and that with a putrid pitching staff (SP last year, BP this year) and hardly anything on the bench. The above quote sums up my feelings very well.

guttle11
06-28-2006, 07:51 PM
2005 - 46-46
2006 - 41-36

He's five games over .500. So what? He continually makes stupid decisions, puts young players in positions to fail, and shows no aptitude for making an effective lineup.

And just because LaRussa started that way doesn't make Narron LaRussa. For every Tony LaRussa, who overcomes early mediocrity, there are a hundred Dave Mileys who continue to stink.

Wow. So being five games over means nothing to you? Really? Seriously? Honestly?


Really?

Let me ask this... If Denorfia was on the team, Aurilia was a backup, and Edwin played everyday, how much better would this team be?

The answer? Likely, not at all. Sorry.

WVRedsFan
06-28-2006, 08:13 PM
So what? So look at the pitching staffs he's had to work with over that time period and tell me if you really think anyone would've done any better.

I think even playing .500 ball while sending guys like Eric Milton, Brandon Claussen, Rick White, Ramon Ortiz and Joe Mays out there on a regular basis is an amazing accomplishment.

With all due respect, that argument has been used for every mistake the Reds have made over the last 7 years. "He didn't have anything to work with." It's been used for Boone (not much, but some), Miley, Gullett, and probably many others. Truth is, a good manager takes lemons and makes lemonade. It would be hard with this bunch, but I have no doubt in my mind someone else could, even if I don't know who. Look at Leyland and the Tigers. Just his presence has elevated them to world beater status.

GAC
06-28-2006, 08:20 PM
Seems a bit early but I do like stability.

Agree. A 2 yr extension ain't much. Don't know what his salary is gonna be; but I bet it ain't much knowing Cincy. And it's not like managers can't get fired if the team goes belly-up. Low risk IMO.

So overall - I don't see it as a bad move. He seems to have good relations with the players, and after the two previous managers I'm not that upset over it.

It'll give people job security over the next 2 years complaining about his lineups. ;)

pedro
06-28-2006, 08:24 PM
Agree. A 2 yr extension ain't much. Don't know what his salary is gonna be; but I bet it ain't much knowing Cincy. And it's not like managers can't get fired if the team goes belly-up. Low risk IMO.

So overall - I don't see it as a bad move. He seems to have good relations with the players, and after the two previous managers I'm not that upset over it.

It'll give people job security over the next 2 years complaining about his lineups. ;)

I'm more concerned with his clubhouse management and the way he handles the pitching staff than I am with the batting order. Narron does seem to be OK with those two issues, especially the clubhouse from what I can tell, and while none of us is enamored with some of his batting orders he does seem to be playing the right guys most nights. All in all I don;t ssee the big deal, he;s not going to keep the team from winning and if they do tank they can always fire him.

cReds1
06-28-2006, 08:37 PM
“Success breeds success,” Castellini said. “We’re happy with the direction we’re going.”

Castellini likes the idea of continuity – something that’s been missing in the organization.

“That’s what this direction is all about,” Castellini said. “On top of telling Wayne and Jerry with actions as well as words how happy we are, we are … letting everyone know continuity is extremely important to the Cincinnati Reds organization.”


Can someone tell me what I have missed? Continuity? What is the difference from the past years? I thought that was the major problem?

dsmith421
06-28-2006, 08:51 PM
Wow. So being five games over means nothing to you? Really? Seriously? Honestly?


Really?

Let me ask this... If Denorfia was on the team, Aurilia was a backup, and Edwin played everyday, how much better would this team be?

The answer? Likely, not at all. Sorry.

How much better would this team be in 2006? About the same.

Would it be better for the team in 2007 and 2008 to have Encarnacion and Denorfia getting everyday playing time now, and getting acclimated to ML pitching, rather than catering to veteran mediocrities? I say yes.

And no, five freaking games means very little in the grand scheme of things. 85-77 is the exact same thing as 77-85 if you miss the playoffs.

Caveat Emperor
06-28-2006, 10:05 PM
Truth is, a good manager takes lemons and makes lemonade.

Given the sheer quantity of lemons involved on this 25 man roster, this minor league system, and (specifically) the revolving door of 12 men paid to throw baseballs on this squad, I'd say the Narron has been lucky to find the juicer, much less squeeze any lemonade.

The man is 6 games over .500 with a squad of players I'd project at maybe .450 ball, tops. A little credit where credit is due.

Reds Nd2
06-28-2006, 10:27 PM
I like the extensions. Both of them.

remdog
06-28-2006, 11:51 PM
Personally, I'm not really in favor of this type of thing. When the season is over and all the results are in is the proper time to review the job performance. If, at that time, the performance deseves an extention, do it then.

The only hope I hold in this move is that, with the extention, Narron will stop playing every day for fear his job is on the line and he will do things that will make this team into a legitimate contender for '07. Things like installing EE at third base and leaving him there. Telling Dunn he's now the full-time first baseman and telling Jr. that he's Dunn's replacemant in left field. Puting Freel in center field until Krivsky finally gets around to calling up Denorfia. Having LaRue start 70% of the games behind home plate. Telling Arullia to take a seat at the end of the bench----I'll call ya' when I need ya'. Never again letting Castro even so much as sniff an at-bat in a Reds uniform in his lifetime. That's my hope in this deal. I won't hold my breath. :explode:

Rem

KronoRed
06-29-2006, 01:04 AM
I'm not in favor of this, I don't think Narron is that great, the starters are making him look good...but oh well, we'll see? :)

What I'm really afraid of is Krivsky going for more additions like Castro, scrappy guys who "know how to play the game" that's a golden ticket to 90 loss land

but..we'll see :)

KronoRed
06-29-2006, 01:05 AM
Rich Aurilia must be happy, he just found himself two more years worth of paydays and batting cleanup.
His extension will be coming soon.

cincinnati chili
06-29-2006, 01:43 AM
Unless RCast broke the bank on these extensions, which I doubt, these are good moves. As others have pointed out, RCast can always just eat the contract if Narron goes into the tank in the next year or so.

More importantly, this sends a good message that RCast is willing to reward success. Narron and Kriv have exceeded all expectations. If GAB is going to gain a reputation as a good place to work, then people at the top have to visibly reward good work.

redsmetz
06-29-2006, 06:00 AM
I'm not in favor of this, I don't think Narron is that great, the starters are making him look good...but oh well, we'll see? :)

What I'm really afraid of is Krivsky going for more additions like Castro, scrappy guys who "know how to play the game" that's a golden ticket to 90 loss land

but..we'll see :)

Why on earth does everyone keep saying baloney like this? It was clear that the Castro pick up was just a cog in the wheels; nothing more. The same with Hatteberg. Aurilia has proven to be valuable and he'll return to his role as alternate 1st baseman and giving EE a rest occasionally. Frankly, aside from McCracken (and he's not a bad pinchrunning option at that), this bench is a good bench and helps this team immensely.

Krivsky has shown himself thus far to be shrewd and capable of pulling the trigger. The lack of bullpen movement speaks more to the current market than it does any lack of effort on K's part.

I think the subtitle for this bulletin board anymore ought to be "Everybody calm down!".

redsmetz
06-29-2006, 06:45 AM
Nice article in today's Enquirer about the contract extensions. They apparently talked about Krivsky contacting Jerry Narron during the interview process to get his take on the Reds. A couple of quotes stuck out.

Speaking about calling Narron, K said


The first phone call I made to him, I said " This guy is great. Now get the job, stupid.


I had a decent idea, having scouted the team. I wanted to hear his opinion. It was uncanny. We were very much on the same page. I was surprised we didn't disagree more.

He finishes with a quote I thought would resonate with many on Redzone :)


That told me we're either both right or we're both wrong. We're going to go down together.

I think I had heard that Krivsky was not the leading candidate in Castellini's mind when the process started. Bob C moved him to the top after their first interview, noting his talent evaluation acumen.

I'm finding this move very very heartening.

Ltlabner
06-29-2006, 07:57 AM
What I'm really afraid of is Krivsky going for more additions like Castro, scrappy guys who "know how to play the game" that's a golden ticket to 90 loss land

Lets not forget that he also brought Arroyo, Philips and Ross to town as we are beating the "scrappy vet" horse to death.

RedsManRick
06-29-2006, 11:32 AM
Why on earth does everyone keep saying baloney like this? It was clear that the Castro pick up was just a cog in the wheels; nothing more. The same with Hatteberg. Aurilia has proven to be valuable and he'll return to his role as alternate 1st baseman and giving EE a rest occasionally. Frankly, aside from McCracken (and he's not a bad pinchrunning option at that), this bench is a good bench and helps this team immensely.

Krivsky has shown himself thus far to be shrewd and capable of pulling the trigger. The lack of bullpen movement speaks more to the current market than it does any lack of effort on K's part.

I think the subtitle for this bulletin board anymore ought to be "Everybody calm down!".

Juan Castro says 'Hi'. If it's possible to be Neifi Perez lite, that's Juan Castro. He'd be a poor hitter in AAA and his glove no longer comes close to making the up the difference.

guttle11
06-29-2006, 11:40 AM
How much better would this team be in 2006? About the same.

Would it be better for the team in 2007 and 2008 to have Encarnacion and Denorfia getting everyday playing time now, and getting acclimated to ML pitching, rather than catering to veteran mediocrities? I say yes.

And no, five freaking games means very little in the grand scheme of things. 85-77 is the exact same thing as 77-85 if you miss the playoffs.

Catering to veteran mediocrities? I can't believe I'm reading this.

Narron's job is to win baseball games today. He's doing that. With the complete lack of job security at this level, he's doing what he has to do, and he's doing it pretty well.

It's Wayne Krivisky's job is to build the team to win tomorrow, not Narron's.

It seems to me that you want the Reds to build for the future. I do too, just not on the major league level. If the season ended today, the Reds would be in the playoffs. You go for it now while you have the chance.

Narron's doing a great job.

Doc. Scott
06-29-2006, 11:59 AM
Bob Boone once had a good record.

Not really true.

Losing seasons, every time.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/boonebo01.shtml

Every manager has good stretches. That doesn't impress me.

Doc. Scott
06-29-2006, 12:07 PM
I do question the wisdom of a two-year extension for Narron. What was wrong with picking up the mutual option and doing a wait-and-see?

I'm glad Wayne and Jerry work well together and all that, and I'm intrigued by the way Bob Castellini has structured their contracts to be up at the same time. I'm just not sure that Jerry should have been guaranteed another two years' cash.

registerthis
06-29-2006, 12:18 PM
Juan Castro says 'Hi'. If it's possible to be Neifi Perez lite, that's Juan Castro. He'd be a poor hitter in AAA and his glove no longer comes close to making the up the difference.

He's a better option than Lopez or Aurilia at short as a late-inning replacement.

Sorry, but I'm finding it very, very hard to generate any angst over the Castro trade. If this is what we've come up with to criticize Krivsky over, then he must be doing a fine job.

Falls City Beer
06-29-2006, 01:28 PM
He's a better option than Lopez or Aurilia at short as a late-inning replacement.

Sorry, but I'm finding it very, very hard to generate any angst over the Castro trade. If this is what we've come up with to criticize Krivsky over, then he must be doing a fine job.

The problem with acquiring bad players to play "small" roles is that these players eventually play big roles at various times (cf. Yan).

oneupper
06-29-2006, 01:40 PM
He's a better option than Lopez or Aurilia at short as a late-inning replacement.

Sorry, but I'm finding it very, very hard to generate any angst over the Castro trade. If this is what we've come up with to criticize Krivsky over, then he must be doing a fine job.

The Castro trade took up a roster spot on the 25 man. As of today, it's not sure who is going to go off that roster when EE comes back. So, you can expect EE's rehab to be extended until this issue is resolved.

In short...Castro takes ABs away from EE and gives them to Aurilia, Freel or Castro himself.

But you're right, this still beats 90% of DanO's moves (or lack thereof).

I'm hoping it's just part of something bigger and better.

RANDY IN INDY
06-29-2006, 01:43 PM
A lot of people seem to be wanting the "sky to fall," just to be able to say I told you so. ;)

I think that Castellini, Krivsky, Narron and the team have done a great job thus far. Do I expect every move that they make to work out? Not a chance, but so far, they have done a remarkably great job in just about every area. I, for one, applaud the current leadership. They work well together and seem to be on the same page. A welcome change in Redsland from the past regime. No comparison.

registerthis
06-29-2006, 02:22 PM
The problem with acquiring bad players to play "small" roles is that these players eventually play big roles at various times (cf. Yan).

i don't see castro ever playing a big role on this team, unless there's a couple of serious injuries. The fact is, his spot was going to be used by someone. For whatever reason, the Reds have decided they'd rather have Deno in AAA than on the big league club. Considering the dearth of options available, again, I just can't get worked up about the Castro signing. If he *truly* strats taking ABs away from someone like E_E (he won't), then sure you can vent some frustration. But now? Just seems like trying to work yourself up for no particularly good reason. let's see how Castro is actually used before we run krivsky up the flagpole.

VR
06-29-2006, 02:41 PM
I think the bigger thing it says is that this organization is willing to operate more than 5 minutes in advance. No leader is comfortable or performs best when they have no assurance, guarantees, or perceived confidence from their boss(es).

Castellini is proving he is willing to live up to his end of the bargain....he has already proven he expects those getting contracts to live up to theirs (Williams, Dave....Womack, Tony....White, Rick)

If the ship goes south, I don't think he's going to freak out about paying the remainder of a contract, but his main day to day guys aren't confused or concerned about the commitment the organization has made to them. I think the signings point to symptoms of a (gasp) healthy organization.

redsmetz
06-29-2006, 02:44 PM
The problem with acquiring bad players to play "small" roles is that these players eventually play big roles at various times (cf. Yan).

Yan hasn't been perfect, but I'm not sure anybody new we pick up is going to thrill some folks around here (my late grandma had a saying, "He'd kick if his legs were cut off").

In the last 30 days he's got a 4.22 ERA, he's 1-0 with 1 save in one opportunity. He had one outing in his last ten in which he allowed three runs, but only one was earned. He had one other outing where he gave up two.

Some of his splits are interesting for him, BTW:

ERA Day 3.60 Night 7.04 Versus Lefties 2.95 Versus Righties 9.82

Lefties BA .273 Righties BA .216

So ideally he should only be pitching aginst lefties during day games. From these statistics, he does not appear to be performing horribly. Now granted, I don't have the Inherited Runner stats for him and that might tell an uglier picture.

Matt700wlw
06-29-2006, 02:54 PM
Some info...

Bob Boone in first 170 with the Reds - 70-100

Jack McKeon in first 170 with the Reds - 80-90

Ray Knight in first 170 with the Reds - 84-86

Davey Johnson in first 170 with the Reds - 82-88

Lou Pinella in first 170 with the Reds - 97-73 (two games/wins later, won the World Series)

redsmetz
06-29-2006, 03:29 PM
Some info...

Bob Boone in first 170 with the Reds - 70-100

Jack McKeon in first 170 with the Reds - 80-90

Ray Knight in first 170 with the Reds - 84-86

Davey Johnson in first 170 with the Reds - 82-88

Lou Pinella in first 170 with the Reds - 97-73 (two games/wins later, won the World Series)

And Jerry Narron's 88-82 and would have us in the playoffs if the season ended today.

Ltlabner
06-29-2006, 04:05 PM
Ok the bullpen was floundering so The Kriv took a chance on Yan and Mayes hoping to catch some "Philips-in-a-bottle" and it didn't work out as well. If he had done nothing at all people would be rioting in the streets by now. And if he would have gone out and overpaid for a couple of young arms (in the first few months of the season you have to overpay because everybody thinks they are in contention) the same people crying over bringing in vets now would be freaking out that we morgaged the future on a couple of young arms.

Taking a bunch of players the entire world picked to be last, and somehow guiding them to where they are now deserves a big round of applause for The Kriv and Narron as far as I'm concered.

Narron's line up's are weird sometimes but they have produced one of the top offesenses in the NL thus far. Do I like Aurlia at 4th every night, no not really. Am I going to work myself into the angst ridden trauma some here do? No. Name for me one team in all of MLB that is stocked with all young 20 somethings and doesn't have a single dreaded "scrappy vet" on it? Flordia Marlins maybe? And by the way, they are 12 games back. Is that the result people want?

If they stick with the likes of Yan, Mayes, Aurlia, Castro on a nightly basis until the end of the year, then moan and grown away (and I'll be right there with you) but to beat a horse over and over and over and over when it's produced better results than even Kreskin could have forseen is silly.

Falls City Beer
06-29-2006, 04:07 PM
Ok the bullpen was floundering so The Kriv took a chance on Yan and Mayes hoping to catch some "Philips-in-a-bottle" and it didn't work out as well. If he had done nothing at all people would be rioting in the streets by now..

Speaking for myself, that's just not true. I'd be displeased if he had done nothing, but no more than I am that he has acquired two useless components.

Ltlabner
06-29-2006, 04:15 PM
He took a chance. What do you want from the guy? He saw a low risk move(s) that might have turned out to be slightly better than the warmed over doo that we already had. We all knew they weren't going to set the world on fire, but the man was trying to make some early season moves that might have helped out the team. People seem to think blockbuster trades for young studs happen every day of the week, especially in the begining of the year but they just don't (without overpaying).

Falls City Beer
06-29-2006, 04:18 PM
He took a chance. What do you want from the guy? He saw a low risk move(s) that might have turned out to be slightly better than the warmed over doo that we already had. We all knew they weren't going to set the world on fire, but the man was trying to make some early season moves that might have helped out the team. People seem to think blockbuster trades for young studs happen every day of the week, especially in the begining of the year but they just don't (without overpaying).

If you're not going to improve the franchise, expend your energy on other things--like clearing out players from the roster that are expensive or due big pay raises incommensurate with their talent. Just don't bring in wastes of roster space.

Ltlabner
06-29-2006, 04:34 PM
Just don't bring in wastes of roster space.

But saying that assumes that you know the outcome of every trade BEFORE you make it. You don't. You have an idea based on past performance but it's only an idea. If you went strictly on performance you wouldn't have Ross or Philips here either.

And I'm NOT comparing Castro, Yan and Mays to the two phenoms. But how did we know that the older guys wouldn't come to town and perform incrementally better than what we already had? It's called taking a risk that if Rick White had an ERA of 7.00 (for example) that Yan might post an ERA of 5.00. That's an improvement. Do I want a bull pen ERA of all 5's ? No, of course not. But would I rather have an ERA of 5 from a pitcher than 7? DUH!!!! Of course.

And again, before everybody screams that we should only bring 20 something studs who throw 95mph and never walk a batter, would I rather have that than the hypothetical Yan at 5.XX ERA? Again, DUH. But in the first two months of the season you simply aren't going to aquire said pitcher (let alone 3 or 4) without paying WAYYYYYY too much for them. You work with what is available.

redsmetz
06-29-2006, 04:43 PM
But saying that assumes that you know the outcome of every trade BEFORE you make it. You don't. You have an idea based on past performance but it's only an idea. If you went strictly on performance you wouldn't have Ross or Philips here either.

And I'm NOT comparing Castro, Yan and Mays to the two phenoms. But how did we know that the older guys wouldn't come to town and perform incrementally better than what we already had? It's called taking a risk that if Rick White had an ERA of 7.00 (for example) that Yan might post an ERA of 5.00. That's an improvement. Do I want a bull pen ERA of all 5's ? No, of course not. But would I rather have an ERA of 5 from a pitcher than 7? DUH!!!! Of course.

And again, before everybody screams that we should only bring 20 something studs who throw 95mph and never walk a batter, would I rather have that than the hypothetical Yan at 5.XX ERA? Again, DUH. But in the first two months of the season you simply aren't going to aquire said pitcher (let alone 3 or 4) without paying WAYYYYYY too much for them. You work with what is available.

I've said something and others have said the same thing over the last couple of days that I think bears repeating on this board. Ulimately we are talking about human beings here, not automatons. I know that averages more times than not will move to that norm often mentioned here on Redzone, but inevitably, these are human beings who from time to time exceed the norm, rise to the occasion and perform in ways not expected. Someone catches lightning in a bottle and wow it's great.

Are Mays, Yan, Castro lightning in a bottle? No, but they were low risk efforts to see if they can add to the picture here and continue the winning ways. I think these falliable human beings are capable from time to time of exceeding expectations and making something wonderful.

registerthis
06-29-2006, 04:55 PM
If you're not going to improve the franchise, expend your energy on other things--like clearing out players from the roster that are expensive or due big pay raises incommensurate with their talent. Just don't bring in wastes of roster space.

Funny, the same could have been said about Brandon Phillips.

In fact, I think they were.

And there were some not-so-nice things said about Arroyo, too.

westofyou
06-29-2006, 07:19 PM
Castro is more here as a playing coach than a player, until that aspect of his return is noted the rest of the hyperbole is really nothing but pee in the wind.

Every roster has someone you can get your panties in a wad about, much to do about nothing.

WMR
06-30-2006, 12:27 PM
Mark me down as one who is okay with the Krivsky extension but hates the Narron extension.

The Reds are winning games right now, many nights IN SPITE of Jerry's poor decisions. I simply do not understand the need for a 2 year extension after a half season of winning baseball.

I hope we keep winning as much as anybody, but Narron's decisions will end up costing this team ballgames.

Are he and Krivsky really on the same page about EVERYTHING? I find that a bit scary in and of itself.