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RFS62
06-28-2006, 05:25 PM
OK, here's an thought exercise.

Instead of cursing Narron for hitting Nature Boy Rich Aurilia in cleanup every night, how about an effort to discern WHY he's doing it?

What is his rationale?

Does he believe Rich is a contact hitter who can put the bat on the ball?

Does he think he can put the ball in play, to the right side, better than his peers?

Does he get all mushy at the idea that Rich is Mr. Clutch?

Does Rich have some compromising photos he's using to blackmail Narron?

WHY does he do it?

There has to be an explanation, even if you don't agree with it.

NJReds
06-28-2006, 05:29 PM
How come the beat writers don't ask about the lineup? Seems like a legit question to me?

RedsManRick
06-28-2006, 05:32 PM
I was jsut thinking the same thing. There has to be some reason. I have to believe there is some stat out there that has Narron convinced.

What's our winning % with Richie cleaning up? Is Narron worried about Dunn and Junior being nullfied by a lefty late in the game (and doesn't realize Dunn vs. a lefty is better than Richie vs. anybody). Perhaps it's that both Junior and Dunn are strikeout prone.

westofyou
06-28-2006, 05:36 PM
Rich Aurilia is an average hitter who gives you good at bats, the problem is to get to the point that he gives good at bats you have to get 2 strikes on him.

Some batters give you good at bats by generating walks and power from hitters counts (see Adam Dunn) others give it to you by being "situation hitters" which means they get the bat on the ball, nothing more, nothing less.

Narron likes to worry about one run scenarios and that lessens setting up the deck for multiple run scenarios. You'll win more games with multiple run innings then 1 run innings.

Ga_Red
06-28-2006, 05:37 PM
02/08/07

CTA513
06-28-2006, 05:38 PM
How come the beat writers don't ask about the lineup? Seems like a legit question to me?

They would probably get kicked out and banned from the stadium.

:evil:

Spitball
06-28-2006, 06:25 PM
I assume it is to break up the lefties. I believe the Royals have three lefties, Sisco, Affeldt, and Madritsch. Sisco's OBP left/right split is 349/429 and SLG 358/541. Affeldt's 343/401 and 364/467. I don't know about the other guy because he is fairly new. I believe Narron is simply putting the guy in between he feels might spoil or discourage the lefty specialist ploy.

RFS62
06-28-2006, 06:27 PM
I assume it is to break up the lefties. I believe the Royals have three lefties, Sisco, Affeldt, and Madritsch. Sisco's OBP left/right split is 349/429 and SLG 358/541. Affeldt's 343/401 and 364/467. I don't know about the other guy because he is fairly new. I believe Narron is simply putting the guy in between he feels might spoil or discourage the lefty specialist ploy.


That, plus the perception that he's a contact hitter, has always been what I've believed too.

Spitball
06-28-2006, 06:28 PM
...add to that RA is hitting .333 versus lefties with a .400 OBP and .725 SLG.

RANDY IN INDY
06-28-2006, 06:30 PM
That's not so bad.

RANDY IN INDY
06-28-2006, 06:31 PM
By the way, I too have thought that it was to break up the lefties.

BRM
06-28-2006, 06:35 PM
...add to that RA is hitting .333 versus lefties with a .400 OBP and .725 SLG.

Not many get riled up when he's hitting cleanup lefties. The problem is when JN puts him 4th against right-handers. Aurilia probably shouldn't even be on the field against righties. His numbers are putrid against them.

OnBaseMachine
06-28-2006, 06:38 PM
By the way, I too have thought that it was to break up the lefties.

Dunn is hitting .295/.447/.693 against lefties this year. If the reason you listed above is why Aurilia is hitting 4th, then clearly Narron isn't doing his homework.

Chip R
06-28-2006, 06:38 PM
I think it's because he wants someone who can get hits when runners are on base. That is what the cleanup hitter is supposed to do. The ideal cleanup hitter is supposed to do that with home runs and doubles but since Dunn walks and strikes out a lot, I am guessing Narron wants someone in there he feels can get that base hit to drive in those runs. That and his pathological need to break up the lefties.

Marc D
06-28-2006, 06:39 PM
Have faith like Jerry.

-The Book sayeth thou must covet thy veterans above all others.
-The Book sayeth thou must break up leftys and righties.
-The Book sayeth thine free swinging/high K guy with power must hit 5th(Dunn)
-The Book sayeth thine "best" hitter must hit 3rd (and be a veteran). Griffey

-Ross/LaRue are eliminated because catchers must bat 8th.
-Lopez is eliminated because SS do not bat 4th.
-Phillips is eliminated because he is too young and plays 2B.
-Hatteberg is eliminated(though tempting) because even Jerry and the Book aren't THAT dumb. The Book sayeth thine cleanup hitter must have slightly better than warning track power.

So The Book leaveth Aurilia, AK and EE to hit 4th. Richie is the veteran therefore The Book sayeth thou must hit Aurilia 4th.

Its simple really, listen to the book or be a baseball blasphemer. Does Jerry really strike anyone here as the latter?

Spitball
06-28-2006, 06:45 PM
Not many get riled up when he's hitting cleanup lefties. The problem is when JN puts him 4th against right-handers. Aurilia probably shouldn't even be on the field against righties. His numbers are putrid against them.

The point is, you want to either discourage the opposing manager from bringing in Sisco or Affeldt to face Griffey and Dunn, or if he does, Aurilia will at least make him pay.

This is designed to protect the lefties.

redsrule2500
06-28-2006, 07:38 PM
I'd rather have RA cleanup than Dunn.

Dunn can't hit with people on base...this might be part of the reason that Dunn gets pushed to 5th?

Highlifeman21
06-28-2006, 07:57 PM
They would probably get kicked out and banned from the stadium.

:evil:

I like it. We're playing KC, so treat out writers like KC treats theirs.

Brilliant! :beerme:

M2
06-28-2006, 07:58 PM
Isn't it pretty simple?

1) griffey bats 3rd
2) separate the lefties
3) EE is hurt
4) AK seems to do much better 7th
5) what other regular is left? BP?

That's no doubt Narron's thought process.

I just wish he'd dare to think about Jr. in the #4 hole.

TeamBoone
06-28-2006, 08:00 PM
Rich Aurilia is an average hitter who gives you good at bats

As is Hatteberg.

That said, is that what you want in your cleanup hitter? I guess I've never thought so.

He didn't seperate the lefties last night, and that worked out pretty good. Again, seems every time something/someone works out, he changes it!

redsrule2500
06-28-2006, 08:04 PM
As is Hatteberg.

That said, is that what you want in your cleanup hitter? I guess I've never thought so.

Yes, #4 is the heart of the lineup...not just for power hitters like many think - especially power ONLY power hitters. (DUNN)

TeamBoone
06-28-2006, 08:06 PM
I'd rather have RA cleanup than Dunn.

Dunn can't hit with people on base...this might be part of the reason that Dunn gets pushed to 5th?

Then how come Dunn has 46 RBI and Aurilia has 29?

redsrule2500
06-28-2006, 08:10 PM
Then how come Dunn has 46 RBI and Aurilia has 29?


Aurilla doesn't play as much, doesn't bat in the heart of the lineup as much as Dunn, so logically his RBI total won't even be close.

180AB vs. 266AB

Aurilla - .161 RBI/AB Ratio
Dunn - .173 RBI/AB Ratio

And considering Dunn strikes out so much more, it's not that crazy of an idea. Also think about how many more chances Dunn has had consistantly batting where he does.

OnBaseMachine
06-28-2006, 08:14 PM
Aurilla doesn't play as much, doesn't bat in the heart of the lineup as much as Dunn, so logically his RBI total won't even be close.

180AB vs. 266AB

False, false, and false.

Dunn has 62 atbats with RISP, Aurilia has 55. Not much of a difference. Aurilia also has 21 more atbats in the cleanup spot than Dunn.

redsrule2500
06-28-2006, 08:17 PM
Why bat phillips second to last is a better question!

ochre
06-28-2006, 09:15 PM
Contact hitters low in the order clean up the higher OBP guys that are still on base before the 9 hitter (pitcher) gets exposed.

RANDY IN INDY
06-28-2006, 11:26 PM
Dunn is hitting .295/.447/.693 against lefties this year. If the reason you listed above is why Aurilia is hitting 4th, then clearly Narron isn't doing his homework.

I think the rub is when they bring in a lefthanded specialist, late in the game, who is really tough on lefthanded hitters. A lot of those lefty specialists are not nearly as impressive against a righthander, and it makes it harder for an opposing manager to leave that particular pitcher in. That is the angle that I was talking about. Dunn may hit a lot of lefthanders well, but those tough leftys in late innings can be brutal on a lineup that is stacked with lefthanded hitters.

WebScorpion
06-29-2006, 02:09 AM
I'm going with the compromising photos. ;)

KronoRed
06-29-2006, 02:12 AM
Rich hit 37 hr's 5 years ago.

That's about the only reason I can think of.

I'd rather see Phillips there

GAC
06-30-2006, 09:27 AM
Rich hit 37 hr's 5 years ago.

That's about the only reason I can think of.

I'd rather see Phillips there

Phillips has never batted cleanup in his life. What makes you think he would succeed there?

I'm not really enamored with Aurilia at cleanup (I want to let that be known). But I'm not totally against it either (for some of the reasons already stated above).

But RA's numbers in the #4 spot over the last 3 years (2003-2005) are this....

48 AB's .354 BA .415 OB% .479 SLG% .894 OPS

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=5523&type=batting3

I prefer to see EE given the shot there though.

GAC
06-30-2006, 09:34 AM
Rich hit 37 hr's 5 years ago.

That's about the only reason I can think of.

I'd rather see Phillips there

Last year, after struggling in the early part of the season, and then DL'd, with a groin injury, he came back and put up fairly decent numbers....

.969 OPS (June) .846 (July) .761 (August) .867 (Sept)

Overall....

114 games 120 hits 14 HRs 68 RBIs .282 BA .338 OB .444 SLG% .782 OPS

ochre
06-30-2006, 11:04 AM
Last year, after struggling in the early part of the season, and then DL'd, with a groin injury, he came back and put up fairly decent numbers....

.969 OPS (June) .846 (July) .761 (August) .867 (Sept)

Overall....

114 games 120 hits 14 HRs 68 RBIs .282 BA .338 OB .444 SLG% .782 OPS
How'd he look on the road?

BRM
06-30-2006, 11:08 AM
How'd he look on the road?

Brutal.

Interesting though, Aurilia actually hit righties better than lefties last year. This year he's struggling mightily against RHPs.

Spitball
06-30-2006, 12:47 PM
I think the rub is when they bring in a lefthanded specialist, late in the game, who is really tough on lefthanded hitters. A lot of those lefty specialists are not nearly as impressive against a righthander, and it makes it harder for an opposing manager to leave that particular pitcher in. That is the angle that I was talking about. Dunn may hit a lot of lefthanders well, but those tough leftys in late innings can be brutal on a lineup that is stacked with lefthanded hitters.

Exactly, a left handed batter may have good statistics against most left handed pitchers, but that doesn't mean he will have success against left handed specialists. Many left handed specialsts like Mike Myers are not your typical left handed pitcher. They are very difficult on left handed batters because of delivery or pitch movement.

KronoRed
06-30-2006, 11:55 PM
Phillips has never batted cleanup in his life. What makes you think he would succeed there?

What says he wouldn't? Put your better hitters near the top of the line up.