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View Full Version : Who Should The Reds Pursue At The Deadline?



Krusty
07-01-2006, 11:55 AM
Who should the Reds pursue to acquire at the July trading deadline? It is obvious this team plans to make a run for a playoff spot and at the same time stay committed to rebuilding the farm system.

So, who do the Reds go after? Bullpen help is obvious, and another starter might be welcomed. Do you trade Brandon Claussen, Chris Denorfia or Ray Olmedo? Do you acquire a rent a player for the final two months of the season or someone who will be around in 2007?

Give me some names. How about the Pirates LHP Damaso Marte or RHP Roberto Hernandez? Kansas City RHP Elmer Dessens or LHP Jermey Gobble? How about this one....RHP Brett Myers of the Phillies? Word is the Phillies might have to trade him given the backlash in Philadelphia for beating his wife.

So, who do you want to see come onboard the Reds train for the stretch run?

UC_Ken
07-01-2006, 12:00 PM
With all the good vibes surrounding unexpected contention I wouldn't mess up our good spirit by taking a chance on Myers. He's definately talented enough to be a huge impact but his baggage may bring this team down.

All the names you mentioned are good ones. I particularly like Elmer. He's been here before, he's having a good year, and the Royals have no need for him. Therefore we should be able to get him relatively cheaply. I'd do this now.

Krusty
07-01-2006, 12:03 PM
With all the good vibes surrounding unexpected contention I wouldn't mess up our good spirit by taking a chance on Myers. He's definately talented enough to be a huge impact but his baggage may bring this team down.

All the names you mentioned are good ones. I particularly like Elmer. He's been here before, he's having a good year, and the Royals have no need for him. Therefore we should be able to get him relatively cheaply. I'd do this now.

Before hitting his wife, the guy really didn't have any major baggage. The Reds have taken on misfits in the past with Kevin Mitchell and Ron Gant. I'm not saying what he did was right. It would depend on what ownership thinks about acquiring players who have a history of domestic abuse.

WMR
07-01-2006, 12:07 PM
Barry Zito. Who immediately signs a 3-year extension w/ a 4th year club option immediately upon arriving in Cincinnati.

:D

MaineRed
07-01-2006, 12:10 PM
I don't know the details of what happened with Myers but his wife did bail him out of jail. If they are staying together and she isn't Anna Benson, I would have no problem. The only way it is going to disrupt the Reds is if it happens again.

I'm a Celtic fan and they just traded for Sebastain Telfair who had a gun that was found in his luggage at an airport in Boston (still not sure if it was Logan or Hanscom Field). Apparently the Celtics brass did a lot of background research and it was determined that it was not likely to happen again. Doesn't mean it won't but if you think something like Myers incident was isolated, by all means, if he can be had for 75 cents on the dollar, make the move.

Krusty
07-01-2006, 12:10 PM
Barry Zito. Who immediately signs a 3-year extension w/ a 4th year club option immediately upon arriving in Cincinnati.

:D

I would like that too but I don't see the A's trading Zito anymore than Willis being traded by Marlins. The A's will let Zito walk as a free agent especially if they remain in the AL West race.

Myers is my poster boy to acquire for a starter. For bullpen help, I look at the Pirates, Cubs and even the Royals for help.

Krusty
07-01-2006, 12:11 PM
I don't know the details of what happened with Myers but his wife did bail him out of jail. If they are staying together and she isn't Anna Benson, I would have no problem. The only way it is going to disrupt the Reds is if it happens again.

I'm a Celtic fan and they just traded for Sebastain Telfair who had a gun that was found in his luggage at an airport in Boston (still not sure if it was Logan or Hanscom Field). Apparently the Celtics brass did a lot of background research and it was determined that it was not likely to happen again. Doesn't mean it won't but if you think something like Myers incident was isolated, by all means, if he can be had for 75 cents on the dollar, make the move.

Claussen, LaRue and Denorfia for Myers.

OnBaseMachine
07-01-2006, 12:12 PM
Bullpen: Damaso Marte, Rafael Betancourt, Jimmy Gobble, Jorge Julio, and Jon Rauch would be ideal targets for the pen.

Starters: Gil Meche, Jason Jennings, Brett Myers, Dontrelle Willis(highly unlikely), and Paul Byrd.

redsfan4445
07-01-2006, 12:31 PM
yea i was thinking Paul Byrd before the Indians leave town.. he grew up loving the Reds and he would be a huge lift in the rotation as well over claussen. Maybe offer them a minor leauge pitcher for him (not bailey).

then for the bullpen go after Deesens of KC, or Putze from Seattle, Strickland from Pittsburgh, Rauch from Milwauke.. even Gordon from Philadelphia!!

Kc61
07-01-2006, 01:12 PM
Scott Shields.

RedLegSuperStar
07-01-2006, 01:37 PM
Odalis Perez, Jimmy Gobble, Ervin Santana, Jason Schmidt, Steve Kline

savafan
07-01-2006, 01:39 PM
You have Kearns, Griffey and Dunn now. You have Bruce and Stubbs for the future. Deal Denorfia, he has no real future with this team.

Patrick Bateman
07-01-2006, 01:45 PM
That's assuming both Stubbs and Bruce develop. That's a BIG if. Plus Kearns could be gone as soon as next year.

edabbs44
07-01-2006, 02:00 PM
Bullpen: Damaso Marte, Rafael Betancourt, Jimmy Gobble, Jorge Julio, and Jon Rauch would be ideal targets for the pen.

Starters: Gil Meche, Jason Jennings, Brett Myers, Dontrelle Willis(highly unlikely), and Paul Byrd.
I can't see Julio being available since the whole NL West still has a shot at the division. Though I would love to see him in Red. Marte would make sense, but he is more of a lefty specialist (not totally though) and I would want to see some more well-rounded relievers enter the pen.

Rincon could be added to the list and maybe Crain. Ervin Santana would be a welcome addition, esp if Donnelly came with him.

VI_RedsFan
07-01-2006, 02:05 PM
I'm a Celtic fan and they just traded for Sebastain Telfair who had a gun that was found in his luggage at an airport in Boston (still not sure if it was Logan or Hanscom Field). Apparently the Celtics brass did a lot of background research and it was determined that it was not likely to happen again. Doesn't mean it won't but if you think something like Myers incident was isolated, by all means, if he can be had for 75 cents on the dollar, make the move.

I'm a Celtics fan too :). I'm very excited to have Telfair in Boston.

But yeah, I agree on the whole Brett Myers thing. He could be worth the risk. WK needs to do some research on him before he tries to go after him though...

jimbo
07-01-2006, 02:14 PM
In the case of Myers, I have to put my conscious before winning. I just think I would have a hard time rooting for a guy who is a wife beater. I don't care if his wife bailed him out or not, it's still utterly wrong. I say take a pass on this guy, he is just not the type of person this team needs.

redsinraleigh
07-01-2006, 02:17 PM
I like the idea of taking a run at Scott Strickland as mentioned above. I think that he is still in AAA for the Pirates. How much could he cost?

buckeyenut
07-01-2006, 04:43 PM
In the case of Myers, I have to put my conscious before winning. I just think I would have a hard time rooting for a guy who is a wife beater. I don't care if his wife bailed him out or not, it's still utterly wrong. I say take a pass on this guy, he is just not the type of person this team needs.

While I agree with this 100%, we also don't know the whole story. The Reds need to do the research and if they can live with what they found out, he is a major league talent worth acquiring.

And, Krusty, I don't think he is going to cost Claussen, Larue, and Denoforia just for Myers. If you deal those three (two of your best trading chips), I think you need more in return than just Myers, as much as I like him.

ANA is who I would be talking to, and there are 5-10 guys in their system and on their team I am interested in, that may or may not fit their plans right now. Santana would be top of my list.

jimbo
07-01-2006, 04:51 PM
While I agree with this 100%, we also don't know the whole story.

Multiple witnesses seeing Myers hit his wife and dragging her by the hair and the fact police state she was crying with the left side of her face swollen is enough for me.

Spitball
07-01-2006, 05:10 PM
Tom Gordon might be available and sending them a package that includes Denorfia might clear the way for them to trade Abreu or maybe Burrell.

How about Denorfia, Ryan Wagner, David Weathers, Ray Olmedo, and LaRue for Tom Gordon and Rheal Cormier.

KronoRed
07-01-2006, 05:12 PM
A starter, and 3 bp arms.

We probably won't get all of that, but it's a goal to shoot for.

cincyinco
07-01-2006, 05:17 PM
Scott Shields.

Do you want him to go out of the pen? Or start? he hasn't started in a while, but when he did, he did extremely well. I'm surprised the Angels stuck him in the pen to be honest, given the numbres he put up as a starter..

but he would immedietly become our best pen arm.. he's borderline elite as a pen arm IMO.

Newman4
07-01-2006, 07:39 PM
Claussen, LaRue and Denorfia for Myers.

Krusty, I like this trade and consider it "fair" for both teams given the circumstances. I proposed the same deal with Germano instead of Claussen and proposed your package at one time for Jake Westbrook. (Who I would like to acquire) I'd definitely take a flyer on Myers.

No to Marte and Hernandez.

I like the Dessens and Gobble thing, however, IIRC KC is high on Gobble and he would probably be expensive. (Think Kearns :rolleyes: expensive)

As for a BP arm, I like RedLegSuperStar's idea of Steve Kline. Steve Kline is the Cadillac of LOOGYs.

As for Byrd, look at his contract:

Paul Byrd p
2 years/$14.25M (2006-07), plus 2008 club option

signed as a free agent 12/05
06:$7M, 07:$7M, 08:$8M club option ($0.25M buyout)
if Byrd finishes 1-3 in Cy Young voting in 2006 or 2007, he has a choice of increasing his 2008 option to $11M or the buyout to $1M

$0.1M All-Star incentive
club to provide hotel suite on the road

1 year/$5M (2005), signed as a free agent 12/04

$0.5M signing bonus, 05:$4.5M
2 years/$10M (2003-04)
03:$3M, 04:$7M player option ($2M buyout) (declined)
signed as a free agent 12/02
1 year/$0.85M (2002), plus $1.15M in incentives
1 year/$0.6M (2001), plus $1.6M in incentives, including $0.75M for 33 GS
non-tendered 12/01
agent: Bo McKinnis
ML service: 9.072

He's 35 years old and until two shutouts against the Reds had an ERA of 4.78. Do you still want him at 7 million per?

Kc61
07-01-2006, 08:08 PM
Do you want him to go out of the pen? Or start? he hasn't started in a while, but when he did, he did extremely well. I'm surprised the Angels stuck him in the pen to be honest, given the numbres he put up as a starter..

but he would immedietly become our best pen arm.. he's borderline elite as a pen arm IMO.

However they want to use him. Shields is a high caliber pick up. I watched Dessens and Gobble this last week when the Royals played the Reds. Reds should shoot higher. Time to think big.

biggergipper
07-01-2006, 08:43 PM
i don't know if it is for this year but I would try to nab oliver perez from the pirates. he has fallen apart this year and got sent to AAA, I'd trade for him then have his shoulder examined. when he finds the strike zone he is dominating. perhaps after the dave williams debacle, they will have mercy on us.

schroomytunes
07-01-2006, 09:58 PM
I would try to focus on a few guys either bullpen or a 5th starter. I dont give up any high ceiling prospects though, we just need a few pieces. Guys I like that fit that category are:

Bullpen-Dessens(KC) Marte(Pit) Betancourt(CLE) King(COL) Shields(ANA) Donnelly(ANA) Borowski(FLA)

Starters-Jeff Weaver(ANA) Oliver Perez(PIT) buy low guys
or Cliff Lee(CLE) Mark Redmon(KC) Gil Meche(SEA)

gm
07-01-2006, 10:34 PM
I'm a Celtic fan and they just traded for Sebastain Telfair who had a gun that was found in his luggage at an airport in Boston (still not sure if it was Logan or Hanscom Field).

It was Hanscom. The gun was stashed in a pillow on-board the team's private plane. The revolver belonged to his girlfriend, and Bassy didn't realize it was in his carry-on bag until after the team left PDX. Why he didn't remove the ammo and give the gun to the Blazers' travelling secretary shows a lack of judgement, but hardly criminal intent.

On the court Telfair was lightning quick but undersized. He can blow by anyone off the dribble, so defenders tend to sag off him. His jumpshot has improved due to repetition and hours of practice. He has difficulty "finishing" in traffic, and hasn't gotten the benefit of calls from the refs when he was knocked off-balance when driving/shooting. He's a willing defender, but his lack of size (and the general lack of size in Portland's backcourt, overall) led to his being exploited by more physical guards.

The Blazers drafted Jarret Jack (better defender, more of a "Nate McMillian" kind of point guard) in 2005, and along with the emergence of Steve Blake there weren't enough minutes to go around for the three-headed point guard rotation. Boston/Ainge saw Sebastian as a better option than any of the point guards available in the '06 draft, so they dealt the #7 pick to Portland (which in turn became Brandon Roy, another physical, defensive-minded guard.)

This Blazer fan wishes the best for Telfair; Bassy always had a positive attitude, even when his minutes were reduced. I got the feeling that he genuinely liked the Portland area, but he would probably return to the east coast when he reached free agency (agent, marketing reasons, etc) Here's hoping Telfair fulfills his potential in Boston (unless he's dealt to Philly for Iverson, of course...)

Newman4
07-01-2006, 10:55 PM
It was Hanscom. The gun was stashed in a pillow on-board the team's private plane. The revolver belonged to his girlfriend, and Bassy didn't realize it was in his carry-on bag until after the team left PDX. Why he didn't remove the ammo and give the gun to the Blazers' travelling secretary shows a lack of judgement, but hardly criminal intent.

On the court Telfair was lightning quick but undersized. He can blow by anyone off the dribble, so defenders tend to sag off him. His jumpshot has improved due to repetition and hours of practice. He has difficulty "finishing" in traffic, and hasn't gotten the benefit of calls from the refs when he was knocked off-balance when driving/shooting. He's a willing defender, but his lack of size (and the general lack of size in Portland's backcourt, overall) led to his being exploited by more physical guards.

The Blazers drafted Jarret Jack (better defender, more of a "Nate McMillian" kind of point guard) in 2005, and along with the emergence of Steve Blake there weren't enough minutes to go around for the three-headed point guard rotation. Boston/Ainge saw Sebastian as a better option than any of the point guards available in the '06 draft, so they dealt the #7 pick to Portland (which in turn became Brandon Roy, another physical, defensive-minded guard.)

This Blazer fan wishes the best for Telfair; Bassy always had a positive attitude, even when his minutes were reduced. I got the feeling that he genuinely liked the Portland area, but he would probably return to the east coast when he reached free agency (agent, marketing reasons, etc) Here's hoping Telfair fulfills his potential in Boston (unless he's dealt to Philly for Iverson, of course...)

Off topic, but....Telfair should've spent a year or two at the 'Ville.

reds44
07-01-2006, 10:59 PM
I would try to focus on a few guys either bullpen or a 5th starter. I dont give up any high ceiling prospects though, we just need a few pieces. Guys I like that fit that category are:

Bullpen-Dessens(KC) Marte(Pit) Betancourt(CLE) King(COL) Shields(ANA) Donnelly(ANA) Borowski(FLA)

Starters-Jeff Weaver(ANA) Oliver Perez(PIT) buy low guys
or Cliff Lee(CLE) Mark Redmon(KC) Gil Meche(SEA)
I'd be going after Mater, King, Bentancourt, and Borowski along with Weaver (although the Angels would have to pay alot of that salary). Lee would be another guy I would take a look at.

KronoRed
07-01-2006, 11:04 PM
i don't know if it is for this year but I would try to nab oliver perez from the pirates. he has fallen apart this year and got sent to AAA, I'd trade for him then have his shoulder examined. when he finds the strike zone he is dominating. perhaps after the dave williams debacle, they will have mercy on us.
Trouble with him is out of his 5 years in the majors he's had 1 dominating year and 1 semi nice and 3 mediocre, I think he's a 1 year flash in the pan and I wouldn't want him unless it's ridiculously cheap, I mean Joe Mays type cheap ;)

gm
07-01-2006, 11:11 PM
Off topic, but....Telfair should've spent a year or two at the 'Ville.

Adidas had other plans. I honestly believe they figured Telfair could cut his teeth in Portland (a '"developmental stepping stone") then they'd bring him back east after he got his feet wet in the Association. I saw the "Fire" movie and Pitino was pretty shocked when Bassy declared for the draft. (and I can certainly understand Louisville fans feeling jilted, I feel the same way when one of the talented Oregon kids opts for Arizona, or a school back east.)

Telfair said all the right things and never acted like he was a short-timer in Portland. Still, that's the vibe I got

Shaggy Sanchez
07-01-2006, 11:13 PM
We can talk all day about who the Reds should go after at the deadline but the real question is who can we actually get? What we really need is pitching and the problem here is that so does just about every other team in the playoff hunt. Do we really have enough to offer to any of these teams to get pitchers that are going to make a difference. We have a weak farm system and I don't see many sellers wanting LaRue's salary. I just don't think that we are going to be able to out bid teams with deeper farm systems to get guys that can really make a difference.

alloverjr
07-01-2006, 11:18 PM
I'd put all efforts into acquiring a SP. After Harang and Arroyo, you have a "green" Lizard ;) , Milton :help: , and Mays/Clausen :thumbdown . A legitimate #3 is a must if you think you can contend for the rest of the year. I think Clausen is a good fit for the pen this year - give him next Spring to work his way back into the rotation, Mays shouldn't be on the team - I'd rather have Hammonds, Lizard has been a pleasant surprise - but has put his team in some early holes lately, and Milton slides to the 5th spot.

Coffey, Belisle, Clausen and Shack (lefties only) should be adequate if you can get 6+ quality from the starters.

jnwohio
07-01-2006, 11:29 PM
Coffey, Belisle, Clausen and Shack (lefties only) should be adequate if you can get 6+ quality from the starters.

Belisle and Shack gave up the 4 runs that eventually beat them tonite (Saturday). Shackelford had 2 out and nobody on and ended up allowing 2 runs on a walk and a couple of doubles.

alloverjr
07-01-2006, 11:36 PM
Belisle and Shack gave up the 4 runs that eventually beat them tonite (Saturday). Shackelford had 2 out and nobody on and ended up allowing 2 runs on a walk and a couple of doubles.


I said adequate, not lights out ;) . I think Belisle needs a little more consistent work. I trust him as much as anyone else out there. Shackelford should only pitch to lefties like a mentioned. The 3 outs he recorded tonight were against LH's. Two of the three to reach were RH - the other was by a LH but was a bloop if I remember. I don't put that on Shack. He can't succeed against RH's but Narron seems to think all pitchers must pitch full innings.

BTW, they lost by 5 ;) .

Krusty
07-02-2006, 11:08 AM
We can talk all day about who the Reds should go after at the deadline but the real question is who can we actually get? What we really need is pitching and the problem here is that so does just about every other team in the playoff hunt. Do we really have enough to offer to any of these teams to get pitchers that are going to make a difference. We have a weak farm system and I don't see many sellers wanting LaRue's salary. I just don't think that we are going to be able to out bid teams with deeper farm systems to get guys that can really make a difference.

I think teams looking for young players in return would have interest in the likes of Denorifa, Olmedo, Travis Chick and possibly Phil Dumarit.

HumnHilghtFreel
07-02-2006, 11:39 AM
What do you guys think it would take to get Smoltz out of Atlanta? They look like they'll finally be sellers at the deadline this year and he could provide some quality starts if not closing down games. He has a no-trade option though coming along the 10 years 5 with same team guidelines though.

The_jbh
07-02-2006, 04:25 PM
We need a legitimate closer. I think closers are the most overrated position in the game and I hate to pay money for a big guy but if we are serious about competing, we need a shutdown closer. Plus it allows coffey to move back to the set up role, where he belongs IMO.

rarely does a team make the playoffs without a big name closer. We need a guy that we can put in there ne where from inning 8 to 9 and shut the door.
we just dont have a bobby jenks to bring up either, he was a rare exception.


Denorfia is our most tradeable chip, I wish hed get playing time but its not gonna happen Dunn nor griffey are going to 1B soon. I think we'll see votto b4 that happens. Freel is our depth in the OF.

RedLegSuperStar
07-02-2006, 07:05 PM
Odalis Perez, Jimmy Gobble, Ervin Santana, Jason Schmidt, Steve Kline

Add Jose Capellan, Ray King

Falls City Beer
07-02-2006, 07:15 PM
Add Jose Capellan, Ray King

Both of whom play on teams that might end up being better than the Reds this season. It's unlikely, but it's possible.