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GAC
07-04-2006, 07:37 AM
I think MLB, for the most part, has done a very good job at destroying alot of the traditional baseball rivalries. You still have the Yanks-Red Sox of course, and a few others maybe. But for the most part, IMO, rivalries aren't what they use to be.

Myself, and many others, still remember the Reds-Dodgers rivalry of the 70's. There was no love between these two two teams. And it was borne out of not only being in the same division, but also due to the high level of talent that led to a very competitive rivalry/feud between these two teams.

To this day I still can't stand the Dodgers or anything Dodger blue. ;)

Today many Red fans hate teams like the Cubs and Cards. But for it to really qualify as a "rivalry" IMO, there needs to be more history there. These may indeed become solid rivalries, but it's gonna take more expenditure of time IMO.

And the only way it will become a viable rivalry is if the Reds can continue to bring the talent level up to be competitive with a team like the Cards.

We have done very well vs the Cards this year head-to-head. It has been great to see, and rises one's optimism. But then we turn around and struggle against some other division foes.

I found this article this morning.....

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/115200220776580.xml&coll=2

Three great baseball rivalries

Tuesday, July 04, 2006

Rivalries have come and gone throughout the history of Major League Baseball, but three have stood the test of time:

YANKEES vs. RED SOX

A 90-year rivalry has raged on the East Coast. It started in December 1919, when new Red Sox owner Harry Frazee sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees for $125,000 and a $300,000 loan to finance Frazee's Broadway production hobby. The Red Sox would not win a World Series for 86 years, a drought known as "The Curse of the Bambino."

Memorable moments in recent years

Oct. 11, 2003: Red Sox pitcher Pedro Martinez beans Karim Garcia, leading to the infamous tussle between Pedro Martinez and Yankees coach Don Zimmer in the American League Championship Series.

Oct. 20, 2004: The Red Sox beat the Yankees, 10-3, coming back from a 3-0 series deficit to win the ALCS. They win the World Series and "reverse the curse."

Dec. 20, 2005: The Yankees sign popular Red Sox outfielder Johnny Damon.

DODGERS vs. GIANTS

The rivalry was born in New York. In 1958, the Brookyln Dodgers and New York Giants moved to California, where the rivalry continued without missing a beat. Since 1901, Los Angeles and San Francisco have faced each other 2,087 times, which is more than any other two teams. Since 1951, the Giants and Dodgers have finished first and second 11 times.

Memorable moments in recent years

997: The Giants took a late division lead, winning the National League West by two games over the Dodgers.

2004: Los Angeles returned the favor, edging San Francisco by two games.

CUBS vs. CARDINALS

Interstate 55 connects Chicago and St. Louis. The rivalry is a territorial fight for fans living midway between the two cities.

Memorable moments in recent years

1998: The rivalry was stirred by the Mark McGwire-Sammy Sosa home run race.

2005: Another home run battle broke out, this one between the Cubs' Derrek Lee (46 homers) and the Cards' Albert Pujols (41).

RedsBaron
07-04-2006, 08:01 AM
The most important element in a good baseball rivalry is two competitive teams. The two teams being in close together geographically helps of course, but, as GAC noted, the Reds and Dodgers, thousands of miles apart, had a terrific rivalry back in the 1970s when they were the two best teams in the NL, battling in the same division year after year. Now, the Reds and Dodgers are in different divisions, the Reds have five straight losing seasons, and little remains of that rivalry.
Much is now made of the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry, but it was essentially dead from the early 1920s until the early 1940s and again from the mid-1950s until the mid-1970s. After Ruth left Boston, the Red Sox were a terrible team for years, and the Ruth/Gehrig and Gehrig/DiMaggio Yankees' great rivals were the Grove/Foxx/Cochrane/Simmons A's, the Walter Johnson Senators, the Greenberg/Gehringer Tigers, and even the crosstown NL Giants, until the Red Sox finally again became competitive in the early 1940s with the arrival of Ted Williams & Co. However, by the mid-1950s the Red Sox had again faded, and the Indians and the White Sox had become the Yankees primary rivals. When Boston again won, taking the 1967 AL flag, the Yankees were terrible. It was only in the mid-1970s that Boston and the Yankees both were competitive teams, battling each other for the AL East.
The Dodgers-Giants rivalry has stood the test of time and of a continental move. I understand that the Cardinals-Cubs supposedly have a great rivalry, but it has rarely involved a battle between two teams contending for a title.

RFS62
07-04-2006, 10:09 AM
I've spent some time in St. Louis over the years, and I can tell you ...... they hate the Cubs with a seething passion.

And the Cubs hate them.

It's deeply inbred and passed on from generation to generation.

Big Klu
07-04-2006, 08:17 PM
I think that the seed is there for the Reds to have a terrific rivalry with the Pirates. They are close geographically (in fact, their territories of influence overlap each other), and they have a great history with each other, with the terrific NLCS battles from 1972, '75, '79, and '90. The only thing that is missing is the competitive spirit, as the Reds have struggled in recent years, and the Pirates have fallen off the face of the earth. I don't hate the Pirates--in fact, I enjoy going to PNC any time the Reds are in Pittsburgh. But I think it could become a friendly rival.

macro
07-04-2006, 11:07 PM
Man, I miss that Reds-Dodgers rivalry like crazy! :( I haven't felt the same about MLB and even the Reds since the realignment of 1994. Some are glad that the days of three West Coast swings per season are gone, but I loved sitting up late and watching the Reds play in LA. Unlike you, though, GAC, I no longer hate the Dodgers. In fact, I kinda like them because they built the right ballpark all the way back in the early 1960s and have not had to implode it for a better model. Same goes for their uniforms. They have a classic look and have never strayed from it. They didn't do the pullover jersey thing in the 70s and 80s, and haven't done the black thing or the sleeveless thing in the 90s and 00s. They have a classy announcer in Vin Scully, as well, the best to ever sit behind a mike, as far as I'm concerned. I really respect what that franchise has been for the past half century.

All that said, I hated them with a passion in the 70s and 80s, though. :)

RFS62
07-04-2006, 11:32 PM
All that said, I hated them with a passion in the 70s and 80s, though. :)



It was the right thing to do.

GAC
07-05-2006, 06:25 AM
There was just simply some great players on both of those squads (Reds/Dodger) in the 70's, as well as two solid managers (Anderson/LaSorda).

To have been able to experience that rivalry between these two teams was one of the highlights of the many years I've followed baseball.

RedsBaron
07-05-2006, 07:56 AM
I have long liked the Dodger uniforms (except when LaSorda went on and on about "Dodger blue"). For about a half century, the Dodgers were generally a model franchise. Yes, they did abandon Brooklyn, but declining attendance and a lack of government support at least contributed to that decision, and of course the Dodgers get extra credit for being the franchise to break the color line.

GAC
07-05-2006, 06:41 PM
I have long liked the Dodger uniforms (except when LaSorda went on and on about "Dodger blue"). For about a half century, the Dodgers were generally a model franchise. Yes, they did abandon Brooklyn, but declining attendance and a lack of government support at least contributed to that decision, and of course the Dodgers get extra credit for being the franchise to break the color line.

Yeah, but you probably voted for Robert Byrd too! :p:

Deepred05
07-06-2006, 12:12 AM
I miss that rivalry with the Dodgers too. Just not the same. Pittsburgh was a rival of sorts, with us getting the best of them in baseball and they of course dominated in football. I tell you what, I am really starting to hate these damn Brewers, particularly Hall. :bang: