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View Full Version : Narron looks like a genius tonight...



Benny-Distefano
07-06-2006, 12:14 AM
From the pitching changes to the Castro and Freel sub... seemed every decision Narron made tonight was the right call.

Just wanted to give him some credit, since I'm always second guessing him.


:beerme:

2001MUgrad
07-06-2006, 12:31 AM
Yes, I mean it sat Dunn on the bench. Surely after hitting that Homer you wouldn't want him to bat again huh??

Razor Shines
07-06-2006, 12:33 AM
Castro who came in for him scored anyway. And Freel made a good play in left field. If Dunn was still in they still would have lost.

EKURed
07-06-2006, 12:33 AM
One problem....when Narron went to the mound I thought it was a dead give away that the wheel play was on. Evidently so did Cirillo and the Brewers.

jimbo
07-06-2006, 12:43 AM
Yes, I mean it sat Dunn on the bench. Surely after hitting that Homer you wouldn't want him to bat again huh??

Give me a break. There isn't a manager in baseball who wouldn't have done the same thing in that situation. You get the lead in the 9th and put in your best defensive players. Amazing some of the stuff that some people come up with to bash Narron.

EKURed
07-06-2006, 12:46 AM
Give me a break. There isn't a manager in baseball who wouldn't have done the same thing in that situation. You get the lead in the 9th and put in your best defensive players. Amazing some of the stuff that some people come up with to bash Narron.

I'm not trying to bash Narron, but I'm thinking there isn't another bullpen like the Reds' in all of baseball. I just think we need to keep that bat in the lineup. What Narron is doing is normally the right play, but with this bullpen I just don't think you can take that chance.

TOBTTReds
07-06-2006, 12:48 AM
Aurilia and Hatte batted consecutively in front of Kearns tonight who is hot. And Jr. batted in front of Dunn. Looks like an idiot before the game even started.

jimbo
07-06-2006, 01:23 AM
I'm not trying to bash Narron, but I'm thinking there isn't another bullpen like the Reds' in all of baseball. I just think we need to keep that bat in the lineup. What Narron is doing is normally the right play, but with this bullpen I just don't think you can take that chance.

Narron is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

2001MUgrad
07-06-2006, 01:50 AM
Give me a break. There isn't a manager in baseball who wouldn't have done the same thing in that situation. You get the lead in the 9th and put in your best defensive players. Amazing some of the stuff that some people come up with to bash Narron.

So lets make a new stat and new positon defensive closer okay?? Castro has come in to play SS or 3rd base what 3 or 4 times this year?? They have lost at least 2 of those that I can recall off the top of my head. Not saying its Castro's fault. In fact I think Juan is a great addition.

But,

With this bullpen unless you can stick 2 guys over the wall in the outfield and 3 in the field of play and if they catch it its an out. Why would you even bother. There is no point to the madness of the Reds bullpen. They have consistently blow games. You stick them in in a 7-0 game one way or the other and they are lights freakin out. But you stick them in a game thats say 4-2 or less give or take and they are just absolutely horrible. I'm just sick of it.

I cannot stand bad baseball. Between the errors and the bullpen this team is becoming hard to tolerate. Just awful fundementals. Speaking of which, I'm getting about tired of Narron talking to Marty before the game about how they are doing the little things right.

Ron Madden
07-06-2006, 05:44 AM
I have nightmares with Bob Boone and Jerry Narron dancing across a stage, dressed in sraw hats and striped sports coats singing 'Me and my shadow'. :(

redsfan4445
07-06-2006, 05:47 AM
the only thing i wish he hadnt done was try to squeeze with LaRue!! with one out and Kearns on 3rd.. he isnt even hitting .200 and trying to squeeze when he never has that i can remeber!!

MaineRed
07-06-2006, 06:50 AM
Weren't the odds of Larue getting that bunt down better than the odds of LaRue driving in that run?

It just didn't work.

GAC
07-06-2006, 07:02 AM
I cannot stand bad baseball. Between the errors and the bullpen this team is becoming hard to tolerate.

And Narron's late inning substitutions prevented one of those... possible errors, with better defensive players in there.

There's nothing he can do with this bullpen except play the cards dealt him. We had the lead twice in this game late, and made some fine defensive plays to preserve it.

But you can't defend Hrs and walks except stand there and watch. ;)

ryanparkersongs
07-06-2006, 07:06 AM
Why is Larue even playing?

Newman4
07-06-2006, 07:32 AM
IMO, if you are on a ML roster you should be able to bunt at anytime when asked. Completely unexcusable.

fielder's choice
07-06-2006, 08:23 AM
IMO, if you are on a ML roster you should be able to bunt at anytime when asked. Completely unexcusable.

Give the guy a break. The pitch was way inside. Only people that bunt all the time get that bunt down. The squeeze was a dumb call, but I agree, Narron didn't blow the game, he made some good decisions. Coffey and Standridge blew the game.

reds1869
07-06-2006, 12:00 PM
IMO, if you are on a ML roster you should be able to bunt at anytime when asked. Completely unexcusable.

Then there are a heck of a lot of major league players (oh, say 600) who should not be on an active roster.

Doc. Scott
07-06-2006, 12:58 PM
Castro's heads-up play scoring from second like that was neat and everything- especially for a guy who might lose to Rich Aurilia in a footrace- but it surely means that Edwin Encarnacion will spend the first three games of his return to the big leagues picking pine splinters out of his butt. That's not so good.

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 01:06 PM
Then there are a heck of a lot of major league players (oh, say 600) who should not be on an active roster.
There are 332 Major League players who have gotten down successful sacrifice bunts this year.

gonelong
07-06-2006, 01:20 PM
There are 332 Major League players who have gotten down successful sacrifice bunts this year.

One of which, is Jason Larue. As a side note, Larue broke a finger in 2004 on a bunt attempt.

What would be very interesting to know is when is the last time a MLB catcher laid down a successful squeeze bunt?

GL

jimbo
07-06-2006, 01:39 PM
Give the guy a break. The pitch was way inside. Only people that bunt all the time get that bunt down. The squeeze was a dumb call, but I agree, Narron didn't blow the game, he made some good decisions. Coffey and Standridge blew the game.

I just don't agree. Bunting is a basic fundamental every major league player should be able to do. There is no excuse for not at least getting the bat on the ball, that's the job of the hitter during a squeeze. Every pitcher is taught to throw inside once they recognize the squeeze is on and there have been plenty of successful squeeze plays over the years so it's not like it's impossible.

It was a good call at the time coming out of a pitcher's change because you want to catch the defense off-guard. It was perfect timing, LaRue simply did not execute.

danforsman
07-06-2006, 01:52 PM
Give the guy a break. The pitch was way inside. Only people that bunt all the time get that bunt down. The squeeze was a dumb call, but I agree, Narron didn't blow the game, he made some good decisions. Coffey and Standridge blew the game.

That pitch was not "way inside". It was likely going to be a called strike, similar to the one that LaRue leaned into later in the game. The whiffed bunt was an absolutely terrible attempt that possibly cost the team the game.

I'm amazed at how off-kilter LaRue can get at the plate. He just waves at balls, pulling his head and his body completely off of the plate. Where is Chris Chambliss during these semiannual prolonged slumps that LaRue consistently endures at the plate?

boognish
07-06-2006, 02:04 PM
One of which, is Jason Larue. As a side note, Larue broke a finger in 2004 on a bunt attempt.

On a side note to your side note, that injury also occurred in Milwaukee.

I know Yadier Molina executed a squeeze in August of last year.

reds1869
07-06-2006, 03:09 PM
There are 332 Major League players who have gotten down successful sacrifice bunts this year.


Regardless, LaRue is a human being and last I heard people make mistakes. It's not like he took it easy and that's what made him miss. He flat out missed a bunt. The timing was awful, but the vast majority of bunt attempts are either missed or fouled off; it's not the easy skill in the world. For the record, I was a very good bunter when I played; bunting and fielding are the only things that let me make the cut the years I played past Little League. But I remember bunting through two squeeze plays over my 15 years of amateur ball. Get over it, it happens and that play alone did not cost Cincinnati the ball game.

red-in-la
07-06-2006, 03:21 PM
I BASH Narron for his initial line up. Why in the world was LaRue allowed to start last night? He came up twice with a runner a 3rd and less than two outs and screwed it up both times. There might not have been an 11th inning had Ross started as he should have....even Valentin would have at least been closer to the "book" than Narron.

fielder's choice
07-06-2006, 03:22 PM
That pitch was not "way inside". It was likely going to be a called strike, similar to the one that LaRue leaned into later in the game. The whiffed bunt was an absolutely terrible attempt that possibly cost the team the game.

I'm amazed at how off-kilter LaRue can get at the plate. He just waves at balls, pulling his head and his body completely off of the plate. Where is Chris Chambliss during these semiannual prolonged slumps that LaRue consistently endures at the plate?

No, actually it wasn't a strike. Watch the replay. The pitch would have probably hit him if he wasn't trying to bunt it.

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 03:25 PM
No, actually it wasn't a strike. Watch the replay. The pitch would have probably hit him if he wasn't trying to bunt it.
Then he should have let it hit him!!!

Bottom line: pitch was buntable... even if it wasn't you make a better effort than he made to make some sort of contact (with his wrist) with it.

reds1869
07-06-2006, 03:27 PM
Then he should have let it hit him!!!

Bottom line: pitch was buntable... even if it wasn't you make a better effort than he made to make some sort of contact (with his wrist) with it.

Bottom line: we're all posting on an internet message board rather than playing in the majors. Geesh, give the players a break every once in a while.

jimbo
07-06-2006, 03:28 PM
Then he should have let it hit him!!!

Bottom line: pitch was buntable... even if it wasn't you make a better effort than he made to make some sort of contact (with his wrist) with it.

Bingo. A hitter has to make contact on a squeeze bunt, there are no excuses. You do whatever it takes to get the bat on the ball.

fielder's choice
07-06-2006, 03:33 PM
Bingo. A hitter has to make contact on a squeeze bunt, there are no excuses. You do whatever it takes to get the bat on the ball.

So, it doesn't matter who is at the plate, calling a squeeze is always a good call because if they're in the majors they should be automatically able to get a bunt down no matter what?

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 03:41 PM
So, it doesn't matter who is at the plate, calling a squeeze is always a good call because if they're in the majors they should be automatically able to get a bunt down no matter what?
Nope, but a "clutch" "scrappy" "veteran" "professional hitter" like Larue... against a brand-new pitcher who is most likely going to throw a 1st pitch fastball somewhere in the vicinity of the strikezone. I thought it was a good call in the situation myself.


Bottom line: we're all posting on an internet message board rather than playing in the majors. Geesh, give the players a break every once in a while.
It's hard to be positive and give em the ole "we'll get em next time," pat on the butt when the team you're behind in the standings goes 10-15 in the last 30 days and you don't gain a game.

fielder's choice
07-06-2006, 03:44 PM
Well, I thought it was amazingly dumb calling a squeeze with LaRue, but agree to disagree.

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 03:45 PM
Well, I thought it was amazingly dumb calling a squeeze with LaRue, but agree to disagree.
If it had worked, this thread wouldn't exist. Would you still have thought it was a dumb move?

registerthis
07-06-2006, 03:48 PM
the only thing i wish he hadnt done was try to squeeze with LaRue!! with one out and Kearns on 3rd.. he isnt even hitting .200 and trying to squeeze when he never has that i can remeber!!

FWIW, the fact that LaRue was hitting under .200 is a better argument FOR the squeeze play than against it.

registerthis
07-06-2006, 03:49 PM
So, it doesn't matter who is at the plate, calling a squeeze is always a good call because if they're in the majors they should be automatically able to get a bunt down no matter what?

Did you see the pitch? There's no excuse for LaRue not at least getting wood on that ball. That the ball ever saw the inside of Damien Miller's mitt is completely and totally the fault of Jason laRue.

jimbo
07-06-2006, 03:52 PM
So, it doesn't matter who is at the plate, calling a squeeze is always a good call because if they're in the majors they should be automatically able to get a bunt down no matter what?

I'm not saying it's always a good call. It all depends on the situation and the hitter. If I have a hitter up who does a good job gettiing the ball in the air to sacrifice the runner on third I wouldn't call the squeeze. That doesn't mean though that I wouldn't expect that same hitter to be able to put a bunt down if called upon.

With LaRue hovering around the .200 mark and having come out of a pitching change, it was the ideal situation.

fielder's choice
07-06-2006, 03:54 PM
If it had worked, this thread wouldn't exist. Would you still have thought it was a dumb move?

Of course. I would have been glad it worked but still thought it was a dumb call.

fielder's choice
07-06-2006, 03:55 PM
Did you see the pitch? There's no excuse for LaRue not at least getting wood on that ball. That the ball ever saw the inside of Damien Miller's mitt is completely and totally the fault of Jason laRue.

I saw the pitch, and it was inside. Not the easiest ball to bunt for someone who never bunts, such as LaRue.

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 03:58 PM
I saw the pitch, and it was inside. Not the easiest ball to bunt for someone who never bunts, such as LaRue.
LaRue has 12 career sac bunts. It's not alot, but it's not never.

jimbo
07-06-2006, 04:01 PM
I saw the pitch, and it was inside. Not the easiest ball to bunt for someone who never bunts, such as LaRue.

Of course it was inside, that's what a pitcher is taught to do when recognizing a squeeze. That's not an excuse for totally missing it though. This isn't Little League.

registerthis
07-06-2006, 04:04 PM
I saw the pitch, and it was inside. Not the easiest ball to bunt for someone who never bunts, such as LaRue.

LaRue's sacrificed before, it's not a completely foreign concept to him--and the pitch wasn't so far off the plate as to be unhittable. If you can't expect him to at least get his bat on the ball in a case like that, then he shouldn't even be batting.

RFS62
07-06-2006, 04:27 PM
Everyone in the major leagues should be able to bunt. It's a basic skill.

But they can't. Some are worse than others. Even the good bunters don't get it down all the time.

Was it a poor attempt? Yes.

Narron should know just how good a bunter Jason is before flashing the sign. He apparently thought he could get it done.

It's just one of many fundamentals that has fallen by the wayside over the years.

It was a poor attempt, but that's the way it goes.

My problem with it was the idea of playing for one run with our bullpen.

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 04:28 PM
My problem with it was the idea of playing for one run with our bullpen.
Strange part is that it would have been the winning run (along with Dunn's bomb) last night.

Red Rover
07-06-2006, 04:41 PM
Getting back to the thread title, Narron's was not a genius last night. I wish he would of done a lot of thing differently. If I'm the manager and a player makes me look like a fool, then that player is removed from the game. He should have made a statement and replaced Larue with Ross the next inning. And, I thought that Castro was on the team for defensive purposes. Why move Freel to third when Castro PH and could have stayed in to play third. Narron is no genius in my eyes. If players can't make plays bench them when it happens, not the next game. Failing to at least foul off the squeeze attempt is sort of like getting into the batters box without a bat.

RichRed
07-06-2006, 04:58 PM
"Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."
-Football commentator, former player and poster boy for non geniuses everywhere Joe Theismann


Same applies to baseball.

red-in-la
07-06-2006, 05:30 PM
Wasn't Theismann was a Rhodes Scholar?

GAC
07-07-2006, 07:00 AM
Castro's heads-up play scoring from second like that was neat and everything- especially for a guy who might lose to Rich Aurilia in a footrace- but it surely means that Edwin Encarnacion will spend the first three games of his return to the big leagues picking pine splinters out of his butt. That's not so good.

Didn't happen Doc. ;)

Benny-Distefano
07-07-2006, 12:00 PM
"Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."
-Football commentator, former player and poster boy for non geniuses everywhere Joe Theismann


Same applies to baseball.

Maybe Norman Einstein was a teacher he respected in school?

Doubt it.

RichRed
07-07-2006, 12:15 PM
Wasn't Theismann was a Rhodes Scholar?

Don't think so, although I do believe he was an Academic All-American, much to my amazement.

RichRed
07-07-2006, 12:17 PM
Maybe Norman Einstein was a teacher he respected in school?

Doubt it.

Could be. I hear that Norman Einstein and Ira Newton were his mentors at Notre Dame. ;)