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Reverend Doo-Rag
07-06-2006, 11:05 AM
for sexual assault per WLW

Joseph
07-06-2006, 11:06 AM
That's apparently why Narron and he were talking on the bench at the end of the game last night.

Crazy.

redsfan30
07-06-2006, 11:07 AM
Ouch.

princeton
07-06-2006, 11:12 AM
police must have mistaken him for a Bengal

redsfan30
07-06-2006, 11:16 AM
police must have mistaken him for a Bengal
:laugh:

Funny, yet so true.

If this is true about Brian, I hope they send him packing. Sexual assult is not tolerable in my book.

Let's hope this isn't true.

Reds Fanatic
07-06-2006, 11:20 AM
Here is the story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060706/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bbn_reds_shackelford_arrest_1


MILWAUKEE - Cincinnati Reds pitcher Brian Shackelford was arrested early Thursday on suspicion of third-degree sexual assault.

The 29-year-old player was arrested shortly after midnight at Miller Park, where the Reds played the Milwaukee Brewers on Wednesday night, police spokeswoman Anne E. Schwartz said

"It's an ongoing criminal investigation," she said, without giving further details.

Sgt. Michael Damian said Shackelford was still being held at the jail Thursday morning.

The Reds left town after the game and play in Atlanta on Thursday night. Shackelford, a left-handed reliever, pitched to one batter in the bottom of the 12th inning Wednesday, striking out Prince Fielder.

Chip R
07-06-2006, 11:22 AM
His pitching on Saturday night was certainly a crime.

Joseph
07-06-2006, 11:25 AM
Without being graphic, does anyone know what constitutes 3rd degree sexual assault?

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 11:33 AM
From the Wisconsin Revised Code:
940.225(3)
(3) Third degree sexual assault. Whoever has sexual intercourse with a person without the consent of that person is guilty of a Class G felony. Whoever has sexual contact in the manner described in sub. (5) (b) 2. or 3. with a person without the consent of that person is guilty of a Class G felony.

http://folio.legis.state.wi.us/cgi-bin/om_isapi.dll?clientID=127365&advquery=third%20degree%20sexual%20assault&headingswithhits=on&infobase=stats.nfo&record={B833}&recordswithhits=on&zz=

pedro
07-06-2006, 11:33 AM
Without being graphic, does anyone know what constitutes 3rd degree sexual assault?

Third Degree Sexual Assault is a felony and is defined as sexual intercourse with a person without consent of that person. The penalty for third degree sexual assault is imprisonment not to exceed five years or a fine not to exceed $10,000, or both.

http://danenet.wicip.org/dcccrsa/saissues/handbook/law.html

redsfan30
07-06-2006, 11:34 AM
If that's the definition of 3rd degree and that's what he's being charged with..

How we lookin'? Not good.

Joseph
07-06-2006, 11:41 AM
So essentially it's rape. I'd wondered if it might have been one of those gray areas where two consenting adults did something viewed as wrong [but then I suppose it wouldn't be classified as assault]

Very fine mess Mr. Shackelford has gotten himself into.

Newman4
07-06-2006, 11:45 AM
I'm speculating that it could possibly be that he gave someone drugs and/or alcohol with the intent to have sex with them or he had sex with someone who was already intoxcated against their will. Just guessing.

REDREAD
07-06-2006, 11:45 AM
Let's wait and see what happens and give him a chance to tell his story. There's sometimes cases where the woman is agreeable at the moment, and then the next day when the guy blows her off, doesn't call, or whatever, she claims it was rape.

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 11:51 AM
Quick review of the Wisconsin Revised Code shows no specific "rape" law.

It appears that if "intoxicants" are involved, it would be a 2nd degree sexual assault.

The Sexual Assault code shows varying degrees of sexual assault that could occur.

940.225
940.225 Sexual assault.
940.225(1)
(1) First degree sexual assault. Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a Class B felony:

940.225(1)(a)
(a) Has sexual contact or sexual intercourse with another person without consent of that person and causes pregnancy or great bodily harm to that person.

940.225(1)(b)
(b) Has sexual contact or sexual intercourse with another person without consent of that person by use or threat of use of a dangerous weapon or any article used or fashioned in a manner to lead the victim reasonably to believe it to be a dangerous weapon.

940.225(1)(c)
(c) Is aided or abetted by one or more other persons and has sexual contact or sexual intercourse with another person without consent of that person by use or threat of force or violence.

940.225(2)
(2) Second degree sexual assault. Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a Class C felony:

940.225(2)(a)
(a) Has sexual contact or sexual intercourse with another person without consent of that person by use or threat of force or violence.

940.225(2)(b)
(b) Has sexual contact or sexual intercourse with another person without consent of that person and causes injury, illness, disease or impairment of a sexual or reproductive organ, or mental anguish requiring psychiatric care for the victim.

940.225(2)(c)
(c) Has sexual contact or sexual intercourse with a person who suffers from a mental illness or deficiency which renders that person temporarily or permanently incapable of appraising the person's conduct, and the defendant knows of such condition.

940.225(2)(cm)
(cm) Has sexual contact or sexual intercourse with a person who is under the influence of an intoxicant to a degree which renders that person incapable of appraising the person's conduct, and the defendant knows of such condition.

940.225(2)(d)
(d) Has sexual contact or sexual intercourse with a person who the defendant knows is unconscious.

940.225(2)(f)
(f) Is aided or abetted by one or more other persons and has sexual contact or sexual intercourse with another person without the consent of that person.

940.225(2)(g)
(g) Is an employee of a facility or program under s. 940.295 (2) (b), (c), (h) or (k) and has sexual contact or sexual intercourse with a person who is a patient or resident of the facility or program.

940.225(2)(h)
(h) Has sexual contact or sexual intercourse with an individual who is confined in a correctional institution if the actor is a correctional staff member. This paragraph does not apply if the individual with whom the actor has sexual contact or sexual intercourse is subject to prosecution for the sexual contact or sexual intercourse under this section.

940.225(2)(i)
(i) Has sexual contact or sexual intercourse with an individual who is on probation, parole, or extended supervision if the actor is a probation, parole, or extended supervision agent who supervises the individual, either directly or through a subordinate, in his or her capacity as a probation, parole, or extended supervision agent or who has influenced or has attempted to influence another probation, parole, or extended supervision agent's supervision of the individual. This paragraph does not apply if the individual with whom the actor has sexual contact or sexual intercourse is subject to prosecution for the sexual contact or sexual intercourse under this section.

940.225(3)
(3) Third degree sexual assault. Whoever has sexual intercourse with a person without the consent of that person is guilty of a Class G felony. Whoever has sexual contact in the manner described in sub. (5) (b) 2. or 3. with a person without the consent of that person is guilty of a Class G felony.

940.225(3m)
(3m) Fourth degree sexual assault. Except as provided in sub. (3), whoever has sexual contact with a person without the consent of that person is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

940.225(4)
(4) Consent. "Consent", as used in this section, means words or overt actions by a person who is competent to give informed consent indicating a freely given agreement to have sexual intercourse or sexual contact. Consent is not an issue in alleged violations of sub. (2) (c), (cm), (d), (g), (h), and (i). The following persons are presumed incapable of consent but the presumption may be rebutted by competent evidence, subject to the provisions of s. 972.11 (2):

940.225(4)(b)
(b) A person suffering from a mental illness or defect which impairs capacity to appraise personal conduct.

940.225(4)(c)
(c) A person who is unconscious or for any other reason is physically unable to communicate unwillingness to an act.

reds44
07-06-2006, 12:06 PM
Yikes, I am going to assuming he didn't do it until something tells me otherwise.

If he did do it, then wow.

smith288
07-06-2006, 12:08 PM
These are always He said, she said cases.

Im guessing he pleads to a lesser offense and does some community crap and learns his lesson NEVER to screw around with roadies again.

Team Clark
07-06-2006, 12:10 PM
The shots of Narron in the dugout following the game and then meeting with Shack were very telling. Narron looked like he was carrying the weight of the world and Shack's face told the whole story. Sad indeed.

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 12:11 PM
These are always He said, she said cases.

Im guessing he pleads to a lesser offense and does some community crap and learns his lesson NEVER to screw around with roadies again.
That depends almost 100% on the prosecutor.

The Duke Lacrosse team says hello. :wave:

Jpup
07-06-2006, 12:12 PM
let the courts decide it. there are 2 sides of every story.

smith288
07-06-2006, 12:14 PM
The shots of Narron in the dugout following the game and then meeting with Shack were very telling. Narron looked like he was carrying the weight of the world and Shack's face told the whole story. Sad indeed.
Narron: "Watch out for your cornhole, man" (Office Space quote)

reds44
07-06-2006, 12:16 PM
Very strange atmosphere in the clubhouse after the game. Something beyond just the expected shock after a loss like that. I've got a feeling there will be plenty to write about tomorrow (today, whatever).
-Marc's Blog

I got to figure the guys knew about it last night.

harangatang
07-06-2006, 12:23 PM
-Marc's Blog

I got to figure the guys knew about it last night.Exactly my thought too.

Reds Fanatic
07-06-2006, 12:27 PM
-Marc's Blog

I got to figure the guys knew about it last night.
According to the Milwaukee paper he was arrested at 12:15 AM CT last night at the park. That was less than an hour after the game so I am sure they knew.

MartyFan
07-06-2006, 12:30 PM
Maybe that's why he only pitched to one batter?

This entire situation is sickening...If he is guilty what a putz...if he is being wrongly accused...that is just as sick.

I hope it is not true.

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 12:30 PM
Maybe that's why he only pitched to one batter?
I'm surprised he pitched at all if they knew something was going down.

MartyFan
07-06-2006, 12:32 PM
I'm surprised he pitched at all if they knew something was going down.

What I meant was maybe they were informed while he was out there...

Roy Tucker
07-06-2006, 12:41 PM
Watching the game last night, it struck me as odd when Narron came out to take Shackleford out and appeared visibly upset (grim face, no words of encouragement, no pat on the back). I commented at the time "is he mad at Shackleford or what?".

Then when Fox showed Narron having the post-game heart-to-heart with Shackleford in the dugout, I said "what's up with all that?".

I couldn't figure out why this was going on just because he struck out the one batter he faced. Seemed odd. Makes more sense now.

Danny Serafini
07-06-2006, 12:41 PM
Here's the official statement from the team:

The Cincinnati Reds are aware of the situation involving pitcher Brian Shackelford.

We are not able to address this matter publicly because of the pending legal proceedings.

We recognize the seriousness of the matter and do not condone behavior of the type alleged.

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 12:44 PM
Here's the official statement from the team:

The Cincinnati Reds are aware of the situation involving pitcher Brian Shackelford.

We are not able to address this matter publicly because of the pending legal proceedings.

We recognize the seriousness of the matter and do not condone behavior of the type alleged.
That doesn't exactly sound like ringing support...

The FO got rid of Hancock for being heavy... how long will they hold on to an accused sex offender?

Chip R
07-06-2006, 12:45 PM
I think Shack only pitched to 1 batter cause he is a LOOGY. Sounds like they made a deal that he wouldn't be arrested till after the game.

Jpup
07-06-2006, 12:47 PM
That doesn't exactly sound like ringing support...

The FO got rid of Hancock for being heavy... how long will they hold on to an accused sex offender?

they didn't get rid of Hancock because he was heavy. They got rid of him because he couldn't follow directions.

Danny Serafini
07-06-2006, 12:48 PM
Possibly a bit insensitive at the time but it needs to be asked so I'll go ahead and do it. Do you send Shackelford down right now? It looks like they're going to be down a reliever for at least tonight, since the team's in Atlanta and he's still in Milwaukee. Do you take the chance that he'll be back real soon and leave the team as is, or do you fill that spot, espcially since everyone in the pen but Belisle pitched last night, and the odds of a Joe Mays complete game aren't very good? The All Star break coming up would help Shackelford the same as it helps Ramirez, as he would only have to miss 7 days of regular season action instead of 10 before being called back up. What do you do?

smith288
07-06-2006, 12:52 PM
That doesn't exactly sound like ringing support...

The FO got rid of Hancock for being heavy... how long will they hold on to an accused sex offender?
Hopefully they wont bail on an accused sex offender. They are nothing but accusations until proven in a court of law.

Jpup
07-06-2006, 12:52 PM
Possibly a bit insensitive at the time but it needs to be asked so I'll go ahead and do it. Do you send Shackelford down right now? It looks like they're going to be down a reliever for at least tonight, since the team's in Atlanta and he's still in Milwaukee. Do you take the chance that he'll be back real soon and leave the team as is, or do you fill that spot, espcially since everyone in the pen but Belisle pitched last night, and the odds of a Joe Mays complete game aren't very good? The All Star break coming up would help Shackelford the same as it helps Ramirez, as he would only have to miss 7 days of regular season action instead of 10 before being called back up. What do you do?

bring up someone else. I don't like being short a player, especially with this bullpen. They could pick up Coutlangus on the way to Atlanta. ;) He's in Chattanooga.

CougarQuest
07-06-2006, 01:02 PM
Possibly a bit insensitive at the time but it needs to be asked so I'll go ahead and do it. Do you send Shackelford down right now? It looks like they're going to be down a reliever for at least tonight, since the team's in Atlanta and he's still in Milwaukee. Do you take the chance that he'll be back real soon and leave the team as is, or do you fill that spot, espcially since everyone in the pen but Belisle pitched last night, and the odds of a Joe Mays complete game aren't very good? The All Star break coming up would help Shackelford the same as it helps Ramirez, as he would only have to miss 7 days of regular season action instead of 10 before being called back up. What do you do?

What you are thinking makes a lot of sense, but they may wait and see what happens at arraignment (what the bond will be and what restrictions the Judge puts on him). If this is status quo, he'll get a bond today and could be able to join the Reds today. If he didn't make it to jail for the cutoff time to go to arraignment today, then he'll probably have arraignment tomorrow. I'm sure the investigators wanted to talk to him before he went to jail.

Couple of comments. Before anyone jumps up and down that the sports players get preferrential treatment because wasn't arrested until he was done playing baseball, that is not uncommon at all to wait until a person gets off work, when you have the cooperation of the company and the person is somewhat cooperative, based on the feeling how safe the community is while waiting.

Also, at this point, there is absolutely no information given out to make ANY theories or conclusions whether; Shackleford did this or not, or if the man or woman who is listed as the victim is a liar or not.

Phhhl
07-06-2006, 01:04 PM
This is horrible any way you look at it. That guy can really get lefties out. He doesn't answer all of our bullpen problems, but he could answer one of them.

But, if he's guilty, he's a scumbag. I don't like the idea of him pitching for my team until it is resolved legally. The presumption of innocence is true by the letter of the law, but the Brett Myers situation proves that there is some fashion of "character" still expected in the game of baseball. This type of crime is one of the few that mocks those expectations. Disgusting.

WVJulz
07-06-2006, 01:05 PM
This is the definition of 3rd degree sexual assault I found when I searched.

3rd Degree Sexual Assault -- sexual activity between one party who is 18 years of age or older and one who is under 16 years of age. (Sixteen is the age of consent in Rhode Island)
I don't know if it varies from state to state or not.

Julz

CougarQuest
07-06-2006, 01:06 PM
This is the definition of 3rd degree sexual assault I found when I searched.

3rd Degree Sexual Assault -- sexual activity between one party who is 18 years of age or older and one who is under 16 years of age. (Sixteen is the age of consent in Rhode Island)
I don't know if it varies from state to state or not.

Julz
It varies from state to state

redsupport
07-06-2006, 01:11 PM
Not only is this bullpen a miasma of incompetence and inability, but they are also rappacious plunderers cpapable of societal depradation

realreds1
07-06-2006, 01:12 PM
Not only is this bullpen a miasma of incompetence and inability, but they are also rappacious plunderers cpapable of societal depradation


Can I buy a vowel, Vanna?

kapers
07-06-2006, 01:12 PM
Just heard on WLW: The victim met him on match.com, went to dinner after Monday's game and back to his hotel room for sex. She told police she had
2nd thoughts, although she enjoyed it, had indicated she didn't want to. I think it also said she had consented, maybe begrudgingly, I don't know. But this doesn't sound like something that would actually stick. They also said he's staying on the active roster. I'm a woman and even I don't see how an arrest is warranted if she consented and then had 2nd thoughts. Is there more to this than being released?

realreds1
07-06-2006, 01:13 PM
Just heard on WLW: The victim met him on match.com, went to dinner after Monday's game and back to his hotel room for sex. She told police she had
2nd thoughts, although she enjoyed it, had indicated she didn't want to. I think it also said she had consented, maybe begrudgingly, I don't know. But this doesn't sound like something that would actually stick. They also said he's staying on the active roster. I'm a woman and even I don't see how an arrest is warranted if she consented and then had 2nd thoughts. Is there more to this than being released?

If true, this is pretty scary stuff...

Jpup
07-06-2006, 01:20 PM
Not only is this bullpen a miasma of incompetence and inability, but they are also rappacious plunderers cpapable of societal depradation

:shocked:

CougarQuest
07-06-2006, 01:21 PM
Just heard on WLW: The victim met him on match.com, went to dinner after Monday's game and back to his hotel room for sex. She told police she had
2nd thoughts, although she enjoyed it, had indicated she didn't want to. I think it also said she had consented, maybe begrudgingly, I don't know. But this doesn't sound like something that would actually stick. They also said he's staying on the active roster. I'm a woman and even I don't see how an arrest is warranted if she consented and then had 2nd thoughts. Is there more to this than being released?
There has to be more to this than that.

Jpup
07-06-2006, 01:21 PM
Just heard on WLW: The victim met him on match.com, went to dinner after Monday's game and back to his hotel room for sex. She told police she had
2nd thoughts, although she enjoyed it, had indicated she didn't want to. I think it also said she had consented, maybe begrudgingly, I don't know. But this doesn't sound like something that would actually stick. They also said he's staying on the active roster. I'm a woman and even I don't see how an arrest is warranted if she consented and then had 2nd thoughts. Is there more to this than being released?

pretty much like the Kobe deal i guess. why are major league ballplayers meeting people on match.com? :help:

smith288
07-06-2006, 01:22 PM
Just heard on WLW: The victim met him on match.com, went to dinner after Monday's game and back to his hotel room for sex. She told police she had
2nd thoughts, although she enjoyed it, had indicated she didn't want to. I think it also said she had consented, maybe begrudgingly, I don't know. But this doesn't sound like something that would actually stick. They also said he's staying on the active roster. I'm a woman and even I don't see how an arrest is warranted if she consented and then had 2nd thoughts. Is there more to this than being released?
If true, you cant have second thoughts AFTER the sex and say you didnt want to. Thats would bring millions of lawsuits across the country if that became the norm. THrow this out of court and tell the woman to practice due dilligence in her sexual affairs next time.

smith288
07-06-2006, 01:22 PM
pretty much like the Kobe deal i guess. why are major league ballplayers meeting people on match.com? :help:
No crap. Shouldnt you be able to walk into any public place and announce your work and have 3 or 4 chicks gravitating your way?

vaticanplum
07-06-2006, 01:24 PM
I'm a woman and even I don't see how an arrest is warranted if she consented and then had 2nd thoughts. Is there more to this than being released?

Well, it's very unclear exactly when the second thoughts occurred. If it was after the incident, then I agree with you. If it was during, there's a case here.

realreds1
07-06-2006, 01:25 PM
No crap. Shouldnt you be able to walk into any public place and announce your work and have 3 or 4 chicks gravitating your way?

Umm... looking at pictures on "On the DL"... I'd say yes.

Chip R
07-06-2006, 01:29 PM
It's WLW so take it with a grain of salt.

CTA513
07-06-2006, 01:30 PM
I believe they are going to talk about it on WCPO (channel 9) news.

Krusty
07-06-2006, 01:35 PM
These young guys need to realize they walk themselves in a trap when they gain celebrity status and think they are untouchable.

You hear it every year. Leagues talk to players each year about the pitfalls of sex and drugs. But someone always falls through the cracks.

All I can say if you're going to bang someone, you better know who you're banging.

Roy Tucker
07-06-2006, 01:36 PM
Just heard on WLW: The victim met him on match.com, went to dinner after Monday's game and back to his hotel room for sex. She told police she had
2nd thoughts, although she enjoyed it, had indicated she didn't want to. I think it also said she had consented, maybe begrudgingly, I don't know. But this doesn't sound like something that would actually stick. They also said he's staying on the active roster. I'm a woman and even I don't see how an arrest is warranted if she consented and then had 2nd thoughts. Is there more to this than being released?
If this is true, I'm in real trouble. Most women after having sex with me have decided that maybe it wasn't such a good idea.

kapers
07-06-2006, 01:36 PM
I believe they are going to talk about it on WCPO (channel 9) news.

Let those of us outside of Cincy know what's said on WCPO, if you can.

smith288
07-06-2006, 01:38 PM
Does sex outside of marriage (heck even in marriage...lol) EVER lead to anything but issues and problems? Just wondering.

I have yet to find a case where a one night stand has led to riches or happiness or answers to life's problems.

I have, however, heard that staying away from such activity has never led to problems.

anyways...

smith288
07-06-2006, 01:39 PM
If this is true, I'm in real trouble. Most women after having sex with me have decided that maybe it wasn't such a good idea.
better change your identity.

Cedric
07-06-2006, 01:44 PM
Does sex outside of marriage (heck even in marriage...lol) EVER lead to anything but issues and problems? Just wondering.

I have yet to find a case where a one night stand has led to riches or happiness or answers to life's problems.

I have, however, heard that staying away from such activity has never led to problems.

anyways...

That night with Brooke Burke worked for me.

KittyDuran
07-06-2006, 01:46 PM
This is Shack's Match.com profile...

http://www.620wtmj.com/images/uploaded/shackelprofile20060706095936.jpg

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 01:48 PM
If true, you cant have second thoughts AFTER the sex and say you didnt want to. Thats would bring millions of lawsuits across the country if that became the norm. THrow this out of court and tell the woman to practice due dilligence in her sexual affairs next time.
Happens all the time.

CTA513
07-06-2006, 01:50 PM
Let those of us outside of Cincy know what's said on WCPO, if you can.

They basicly said the same thing about him meeting someone from match.com and then talked about the statement from the Reds about how its a serious matter.

vaticanplum
07-06-2006, 01:50 PM
Does sex outside of marriage (heck even in marriage...lol) EVER lead to anything but issues and problems? Just wondering.

I have yet to find a case where a one night stand has led to riches or happiness or answers to life's problems.

I have, however, heard that staying away from such activity has never led to problems.

anyways...

You're totally entitled to your opinion, obviously, but I don't think any of this is really related to this case or to baseball.

flyer85
07-06-2006, 01:52 PM
Does sex outside of marriage (heck even in marriage...lol) EVER lead to anything but issues and problems? Just wondering.

I have yet to find a case where a one night stand has led to riches or happiness or answers to life's problems.

I have, however, heard that staying away from such activity has never led to problems.

anyways...I had a friend that use to say God gave man two heads but only enough blood to run one at a time.

smith288
07-06-2006, 01:58 PM
You're totally entitled to your opinion, obviously, but I don't think any of this is really related to this case or to baseball.
Besides the fact that Shack would still be with the team and not in a cell wondering if his one night stand was worth the one night of fun?

smith288
07-06-2006, 01:59 PM
I had a friend that use to say God gave man two heads but only enough blood to run one at a time.
Sounds like the truth to me

redsrule2500
07-06-2006, 01:59 PM
Wow, I'm gonna assume it's not true, bot wow.

kapers
07-06-2006, 02:01 PM
This is Shack's Match.com profile...

http://www.620wtmj.com/images/uploaded/shackelprofile20060706095936.jpg

This was interesting, says he's looking for women 18-45, pretty broad range. Other than being a ballplayer, not sure I see much more of interest. And then I'd be more interested in talking about the game, not having sex. Looks like he followed his MO: dinner, drinks and having a good time. Only not such a good time after all. I would think in order to hold him all night in jail and state he is still there, they really have to have more than a woman who changed her mind. I'm thinking she changed her mind almost immediately, tho' that doesn't really explain why she said she enjoyed it. Maybe she enjoyed the date up until that point and then backed off. If so, he deserves to be charged for not stopping. WLW personality just said he wished Milwaukee police would arrest the ENTIRE bullpen, not just Shack. :laugh: Also, they're having someone from Milwaukee radio on in 20 mins to discuss what he knows.

vaticanplum
07-06-2006, 02:04 PM
Besides the fact that Shack would still be with the team and not in a cell wondering if his one night stand was worth the one night of fun?

Uh, we're not talking about fun. We're talking, potentially, about assualt, which is an act of violence. But that's not even the point: your post referred to anyone who has sex outside of marriage, which is everyone from rapists to people who are capable of having emotionally viable one-night stands to people who have been in committed relationships for 20 years.

KittyDuran
07-06-2006, 02:05 PM
This was interesting, says he's looking for women 18-45, pretty broad range.Well, I missed by 2 years...:p: Seriously, that is a VERY broad range in age. He is 29 tho... so that is kinda in the middle of the range. :dunno:

smith288
07-06-2006, 02:07 PM
Uh, we're not talking about fun. We're talking, potentially, about assualt, which is an act of violence. But that's not even the point: your post referred to anyone who has sex outside of marriage, which is everyone from rapists to people who are capable of having emotionally viable one-night stands to people who have been in committed relationships for 20 years.
I don't need a moral relativity lesson. Thanks though.

gonelong
07-06-2006, 02:09 PM
I have yet to find a case where a one night stand has led to riches or happiness or answers to life's problems.


I'd have to say that most of the one night stands I had back in the day led to varing degrees of happiness. Some of the fleeting ... and some of them fondly recalled from time-to-time to this day.

GL

RFS62
07-06-2006, 02:11 PM
If this is true, I'm in real trouble. Most women after having sex with me have decided that maybe it wasn't such a good idea.


Yeah, I was gonna say. Puffy would be on death row.

M2
07-06-2006, 02:13 PM
Does sex outside of marriage (heck even in marriage...lol) EVER lead to anything but issues and problems? Just wondering.

I have yet to find a case where a one night stand has led to riches or happiness or answers to life's problems.

I have, however, heard that staying away from such activity has never led to problems.

Riches or the answer to life's problems aren't in the offing, but it sure can put a smile on your face.

Yachtzee
07-06-2006, 02:14 PM
This is Shack's Match.com profile...

http://www.620wtmj.com/images/uploaded/shackelprofile20060706095936.jpg

He should have listened to Dr. Neil Clark Warren and used eHarmony.com. They have a special method to help him find someone who truly shared his "interests."

RedsBaron
07-06-2006, 02:15 PM
Yeah, I was gonna say. Puffy would be on death row.
:laugh:

Jpup
07-06-2006, 02:17 PM
He should have listened to Dr. Neil Clark Warren and used eHarmony.com. They have a special method to help him find someone who truly shared his "interests."

:lol:

I wonder what Dunner thinks about his little brother. Dunn did look kind of out of it last night after he was taken out of the game. I wonder if this had something to do with it. Not to drag Adam or anybody else into it, but I hope they are careful.

smith288
07-06-2006, 02:18 PM
I'd have to say that most of the one night stands I had back in the day led to varing degrees of happiness. Some of the fleeting ... and some of them fondly recalled from time-to-time to this day.

GL
Shack made moments remembered for the forseeable future. Too bad they arent fleeting and as quaint as yours.

M2
07-06-2006, 02:20 PM
Just heard on WLW: The victim met him on match.com, went to dinner after Monday's game and back to his hotel room for sex. She told police she had
2nd thoughts, although she enjoyed it, had indicated she didn't want to. I think it also said she had consented, maybe begrudgingly, I don't know. But this doesn't sound like something that would actually stick. They also said he's staying on the active roster. I'm a woman and even I don't see how an arrest is warranted if she consented and then had 2nd thoughts. Is there more to this than being released?

I think it's fair to say that a few salient details must be missing from that report.

Cedric
07-06-2006, 02:24 PM
I think it's fair to say that a few salient details must be missing from that report.

Hadn't second thoughts about the expected sex, but enjoyed the date? I guess that would make sense.

gonelong
07-06-2006, 02:26 PM
Shack made moments remembered for the forseeable future. Too bad they arent fleeting and as quaint as yours.

Maybe he has, maybe he hasn't.

Some of my memories are not so quaint :evil:and a few of them are emblazened on my brain so they surely are not fleeting.

Either way, having a one night stand isn't to blame here. Either he is to blame for his actions, or she is to blame for hers.

GL

savafan
07-06-2006, 02:28 PM
Maybe he has, maybe he hasn't.

Some of my memories are not so quaint :evil:and a few of them are emblazened on my brain so they surely are not fleeting.

Either way, having a one night stand isn't to blame here. Either he is to blame for his actions, or she is to blame for hers.

GL

I think we should just blame the internet.

RFS62
07-06-2006, 02:30 PM
I think we should just blame the internet.


Yeah, thanks a lot, Al Gore.

See what you've done?

gonelong
07-06-2006, 02:31 PM
I think we should just blame the internet.

Time to go all Marie Osmond on myspace.com

http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/osmond%20shocked%20by%20daughters%20internet%20sex %20talk_24_05_2006



Pop star-turned-doll maker MARIE OSMOND has launched a personal crusade to clean up the Internet after learning her two teenage daughters have been posting sexually explicit correspondence on their MySpace.com websites. The PAPER ROSES singer felt compelled to give a statement to US tabloid National Enquirer after the publication uncovered outrageous content on her daughters JESSICA and RACHAEL's blogs. On her site, 18-year-old Jessica, who was adopted by Osmond as an infant, claims she is a bi-sexual who craves sex "as many times as possible," while her 16-year-old sister describes herself as a "****" and a "*****" in correspondence and opened up about her dreams of having sex with DAVID BOWIE (http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/osmond%20shocked%20by%20daughters%20internet%20sex %20talk_24_05_2006#). In her statement, shocked Marie, a devout Mormon, says, "I am saddened by some of the choices that two of our children have made. "The insidious potential for harm from adolescent Internet sites like MySpace.com only exacerbates these kinds of problems. "If my being a celebrity figure is good for anything, let it be as a voice of warning to other parents that no matter how protective we think we may have been with our children in the past, we need to become more knowledgeable and even more vigilant now in order to protect them."

Chip R
07-06-2006, 02:31 PM
Well, I missed by 2 years...:p: I didn't know you were 16. ;)

BuckU
07-06-2006, 02:37 PM
and opened up about her dreams of having sex with DAVID BOWIE.

Wow, those are deep issues.

KittyDuran
07-06-2006, 02:40 PM
Wow, those are deep issues.Hey, I had those issue when I was 16 as well...:eek:

KittyDuran
07-06-2006, 02:40 PM
I didn't know you were 16. ;)Some of my t-shirts say hi!;)

Chip R
07-06-2006, 02:42 PM
Yeah, I was gonna say. Puffy would be on death row.

Sheep don't count.

RedsBaron
07-06-2006, 02:42 PM
I realize this is off topic, but (1) it amazes me what kids will post on MySpace and (2) it amazes me that they think their parents won't find out.

zombie-a-go-go
07-06-2006, 02:49 PM
You're totally entitled to your opinion, obviously, but I don't think any of this is really related to this case or to baseball.

Word. Let's leave the proselytizing on the street corners, please.

redsupport
07-06-2006, 02:52 PM
shackelford should have posted on my space, how he plans to function in his job and lower his ERA below stratospheric altitudes

M2
07-06-2006, 02:53 PM
I realize this is off topic, but (1) it amazes me what kids will post on MySpace and (2) it amazes me that they think their parents won't find out.

And it sounds like the Internet needs to be protected from Marie Osmond's kids, not the other way around.

Reds Fanatic
07-06-2006, 02:56 PM
According to Marc's blog the Milwaukee district attorney is going to decide this afternoon whether to charge Shackelford with a crime or not. We should know in the next few hours what he decides.

smith288
07-06-2006, 02:59 PM
Word. Let's leave the proselytizing on the street corners, please.
So recommending our Reds players keep it in their pants to prevent these types of occurances is akin to hitting people on the head with a Bible? Gotcha.

Falls City Beer
07-06-2006, 03:00 PM
You know what I learn about things like the Osmond case?

Kids say things to get attention, particularly when they're not held to a standard of verification.

I also learn that the minds of kids are no more perverse or salacious now than when I was in high school.

It's locker room talk writ large. Nothing more.

I mean, I turn 40 this year, and I "crave sex 'as many times as possible.'"

What's wrong with me? Am I different? Are you there, God, it's me, FCB? :(

TC81190
07-06-2006, 03:08 PM
I also learn that the minds of kids are no more perverse or salacious now than when I was in high school.

Wrong.

reds44
07-06-2006, 03:10 PM
I also learn that the minds of kids are no more perverse or salacious now than when I was in high school.


I don't know, we are pretty bad.

:devil:

redsupport
07-06-2006, 03:11 PM
fcb, perhaps you should contact William Hubbard for his histories of the Puritans and see how Massasoit and King Philip handled their lubricous and lascivious notions

Falls City Beer
07-06-2006, 03:13 PM
Wrong.

Yeah, because you know SO MUCH about my teen years.

That's the great thing about youth: each generation thinks it's got the patent on foul epithets and crude come-ons; sexual exploits and near-psychotic derring-do.

redsupport
07-06-2006, 03:17 PM
how come hancok was jettisoned for too many fast food snacks(by the way on this team, hancock would be like Bruce Sutter) but Shackleford is OK

M2
07-06-2006, 03:17 PM
I also learn that the minds of kids are no more perverse or salacious now than when I was in high school.

The sense I get is, if anything, they're way less perverse than my friends and I were back in the early '80s. I think people forget what free-for-all those years were.

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 03:19 PM
how come hancok was jettisoned for too many fast food snacks(by the way on this team, hancock would be like Bruce Sutter) but Shackleford is OK
"Innocent until proven guilty" is different from "Skinny until you step on a scale"

redsupport
07-06-2006, 03:21 PM
if it takes extra low density cholesterol for hancock to retire batters then the reds should install cookie stands in their bullpen, by the way Estaban Yan is not exactly a poster boy for the ascetic, svelte look

OldXOhio
07-06-2006, 03:21 PM
The sense I get is, if anything, they're way less perverse than my friends and I were back in the early '80s. I think people forget what free-for-all those years were.

Back in the day, and certainly to a larger degree than nowadays, a "creative" imagination was a requisite part of your actions.

CougarQuest
07-06-2006, 03:22 PM
And it sounds like the Internet needs to be protected from Marie Osmond's kids, not the other way around.

I was thinking the EXACT same thing. I always shake my head when people blame something/someone else: "The drug dealers are killing our kids, how are my babies going to survive" says the parent of a kid who was just busted for dealing a 4 ounces of meth. "The gangs are corrupting all of our children", says the mother of a kid who just shot a rival gang member. "The internet ...."

It's called responsibility. It may sound new, but's it not. Make sure you and your kids take it every day. It's good for you and them.

Falls City Beer
07-06-2006, 03:22 PM
The sense I get is, if anything, they're way less perverse than my friends and I were back in the early '80s. I think people forget what free-for-all those years were.

Yep. And I think what else isn't considered is socioeconomic background. I hung out with the poor kids, the bad kids at the back of the bus, the toughs with absolutely nothing to lose (though my family was decidedly middle class): I saw, heard about, and participated in some monumentally disturbing things in my youth.

Roy Tucker
07-06-2006, 03:22 PM
Sheep don't count.
Sheep lie, sheep lie.

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 03:24 PM
The sense I get is, if anything, they're way less perverse than my friends and I were back in the early '80s. I think people forget what free-for-all those years were.
I believe teen pregnancy and drug use rates actually peaked in the early to mid 1990s.

www.guttmacher.org/pubs/state_pregnancy_trends.pdf

www.umich.edu/~urecord/0506/Dec12_05/24.shtml

Sea Ray
07-06-2006, 03:26 PM
According to Marc's blog the Milwaukee district attorney is going to decide this afternoon whether to charge Shackelford with a crime or not. We should know in the next few hours what he decides.

As heard on WLW a Milwaukee sportstalk host said he doesn't think charges will be filed. It could be that this is just a false accusation against a ballplayer and this will be a done deal by tonight. The only consequence to us Reds fans is we're at 24 guys for tonight's game.

smith288
07-06-2006, 03:27 PM
You know what I learn about things like the Osmond case?

Kids say things to get attention, particularly when they're not held to a standard of verification.

I also learn that the minds of kids are no more perverse or salacious now than when I was in high school.

It's locker room talk writ large. Nothing more.

I mean, I turn 40 this year, and I "crave sex 'as many times as possible.'"

What's wrong with me? Am I different? Are you there, God, it's me, FCB? :(
I tend to think the kids these days are just as perverse as I and my age group was. Only nowadays the chicks are alot more willing and sometimes far more perverse so its no longer just thoughts swirling in the boys heads but actions.

My daughter's arent allowed out of the house until they are 27.

Falls City Beer
07-06-2006, 03:27 PM
The only consequence to us Reds fans is we're at 24 guys for tonight's game.

Somehow, I don't think this is going to matter.

redsupport
07-06-2006, 03:28 PM
shackelford should possibly try to read a book, instead, maybe attempting to distinguish himself from the second incarnation of brad pennington

smith288
07-06-2006, 03:29 PM
Somehow, I don't think this is going to matter.
Could help us....Check to see if the women accusing him is a Redszoner or something

Roy Tucker
07-06-2006, 03:30 PM
The sense I get is, if anything, they're way less perverse than my friends and I were back in the early '80s. I think people forget what free-for-all those years were.
I've got 3 teens, 13, 15, and 18 and I'll agree with this statement. And you can stretch it back to the 70's as well.

My parents had no idea what I was doing and as long as I stayed out of jail and didn't get a girl pregnant, didn't care.

My kids have the disadvantage of having a dad who tried everything at least once and usually a whole lot more than that.

Falls City Beer
07-06-2006, 03:31 PM
Only nowadays the chicks are alot more willing and sometimes far more perverse so its no longer just thoughts swirling in the boys heads but actions.
.

Girls aren't any more willing now than they were 25 years ago; they're just less afraid to talk about it and brag about it.

The stigma of "****" seems to carry less weight now than it did then (though, to be sure, it still carries way too much weight). Which is good.

gonelong
07-06-2006, 03:35 PM
The sense I get is, if anything, they're way less perverse than my friends and I were back in the early '80s. I think people forget what free-for-all those years were.

We routinely did things in the '80s that would get teenagers in all sorts of hot water now-a-days.

We went to bars on a weekly basis and were routinely served (boy those were different times). We routinely drove 50+ miles away at 16 years old to go do things (legal and questionable).

The kids in the area I grew up in are plain vanilla compared to what we did. None of them area allowed to do anything. They go bowling, to the movies, play some Hold'em or maybe some video games, and maybe a high school sporting event.

Kids today seem much less likely to do stuff, and much more likely to get caught if they do.

GL

Reds Fanatic
07-06-2006, 03:37 PM
This latest update from the Milwaukee paper says Shackelford is scheduled to appear in court tomorrow at 9 AM.

http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=1&date=7/6/2006&id=8166


Police arrested Cincinnati Reds pitcher Brian Shackelford this morning based on allegations stemming from an incident with a woman at a downtown Milwaukee hotel on Monday, police said this morning.

Shackelford, 29, was arrested shortly after midnight after a game with the Brewers at Miller Park on suspicion of third-degree sexual assault, police records show.

Shackelford was moved at 9:40 a.m. from the jail at police headquarters to the Milwaukee County Criminal Justice Facility, where he remains. He is scheduled to appear at 9 a.m. Friday.

The complainant is an adult woman, said Anne E. Schwartz, department spokeswoman, who declined to give further comment because it is an on-going investigation.

Shackelford and the Reds had been in town since Monday for a three-game series.

Police sources familiar with the case said Shackelford met the woman online and the two went to a hotel room, and took off their clothes. The woman told police her understanding was there would be just touching but there was sex, the sources said.

In a statement, the Reds said, "The Cincinnati Reds are aware of the situation involving pitcher Brian Shackelford. We are not able to address this matter publicly because of the pending legal proceedings. We recognize the seriousness of the matter and do not condone behavior of the type alleged."

smith288
07-06-2006, 03:38 PM
Girls aren't any more willing now than they were 25 years ago; they're just less afraid to talk about it and brag about it.

The stigma of "****" seems to carry less weight now than it did then (though, to be sure, it still carries way too much weight). Which is good.
I cant agree. I think the type of girls who now willingly engage in relations has shifted from the "skank" to the run of the mill chicks.

When I as in school "she's a skank" is a label most girls wanted to avoid. I believe now its just as normal as any other after school activity. Well, almost.

DJF33
07-06-2006, 03:39 PM
I believe teen pregnancy and drug use rates actually peaked in the early to mid 1990s.

www.guttmacher.org/pubs/state_pregnancy_trends.pdf

www.umich.edu/~urecord/0506/Dec12_05/24.shtml


Having graduated high school in '96 I can say this is true. At least from what I can remember......:confused: :help:

redsupport
07-06-2006, 03:40 PM
falls city, what do you think the poet Sir John Suckling would declaim about the Reds bullpen?

reds44
07-06-2006, 03:42 PM
The kids in the area I grew up in are plain vanilla compared to what we did. None of them area allowed to do anything. They go bowling, to the movies, play some Hold'em or maybe some video games, and maybe a high school sporting event.

Kids today seem much less likely to do stuff, and much more likely to get caught if they do.

This statement couldn't be further from the truth. Go bowling and playing video games is not what we do. Yes going to the movies happens alot, as does sporting events, but that is far from the only thing we do.

I am not going to go into detail about what goes on, and I consider myself one of the more modest high schoolers when it comes to doing things like this, but we definately don't sit around and play video games and cards.


We went to bars and routinely were served (boy those were different times).
Why would we want to go to bars when you can go to any party 3-5 times a week and get anything you want? And I am not just talking about alcohol.

Of course I would never do anything like this.

:evil:

westofyou
07-06-2006, 03:46 PM
Pre "D.A.R.E"

Pre HIV

Pre MAD

Crazy used to have lower walls and more room to run, I know we did all over the eastside.

Falls City Beer
07-06-2006, 03:46 PM
falls city, what do you think the poet Sir John Suckling would declaim about the Reds bullpen?

Certainly, unlike Shackelford, he would prefer "honor" (pitching effectively) over "love" (booty call after another loss).

I think most Reds' hurlers would be well-served in reading Sir John, as well as the musings of Lovelace and Campion on the beauty of precision in execution.

smith288
07-06-2006, 03:52 PM
Thats one of the biggest things. My brother in law was an late 80's guy and he would brag about the bars he could go to and would get served and I was like, "Dude, I could just go to any number of friends house's who's parents were out of town and just have fun."

But each generation is different and brings about different problems.

Hopefully when my kids reach the tender age of 13-17 they know how to handle these choices correctly or at least as wisely as I can expect.

CougarQuest
07-06-2006, 03:57 PM
Police sources familiar with the case said Shackelford met the woman online and the two went to a hotel room, and took off their clothes. The woman told police her understanding was there would be just touching but there was sex, the sources said.

I can't picture any way in hel., heck, that a prosecutors office would bring charges on anything like that. If I was a defense attorney, {and any GOOD prosecutor, and cop for that matter, has to look at any case like a defense attorney} I'd want a jury made up mostly of females. Take that back, I'd accept just 3 females on the jury. Here's what I've experienced. Females are harder judgementally on other females. Males are harder judgementally on other males. And I wouldn't bring in a single defense witness. Just let her get up there and talk then rest.

That county must have a "different" standards to arrest someone. The best way to have handled this, based on the complaintant's statement, was to bring Shack in for questioning, not arrest him. Her statements are usually what a 'suspects' comments are. This reminds me of the old joke. Female says I told him, "Please, No. Don't. Stop!". Males says, "Yeah she said those words, but it was, "PLEASE NO, DON"T STOP!"

smith288
07-06-2006, 03:59 PM
Just touching? What is this? 4th grade game of doctor??

M2
07-06-2006, 04:02 PM
Yep. And I think what else isn't considered is socioeconomic background. I hung out with the poor kids, the bad kids at the back of the bus, the toughs with absolutely nothing to lose (though my family was decidedly middle class): I saw, heard about, and participated in some monumentally disturbing things in my youth.

By accident of geography, I moved from a situation like the one you described to close proximity to the uber-rich. Talk about your professional debauchery.

KittyDuran
07-06-2006, 04:03 PM
Just touching? What is this? 4th grade game of doctor??Well, they just met...:p:

goreds2
07-06-2006, 04:04 PM
As a poster or two have said:

I watched the complete game last night until 1am. Narron was talking to him in a serious manner after the game. It did not look baseball related.

Narron must have known during the game what was up. Upon going to the mound to lift Shackelford after he struck out Fielder, Narron just took the ball in disgust. I thought that was really unusual. Of course, we know the manager usually gives a pat on the shoulder or butt. It surprises me that I noticed this. NOW I KNOW WHY!!

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 04:06 PM
That county must have a "different" standards to arrest someone. The best way to have handled this, based on the complaintant's statement, was to bring Shack in for questioning, not arrest him. Her statements are usually what a 'suspects' comments are. This reminds me of the old joke. Female says I told him, "Please, No. Don't. Stop!". Males says, "Yeah she said those words, but it was, "PLEASE NO, DON"T STOP!"
The way most sex case and domestic violence laws are written, as well as public perception of such cases, police are well-advised to arrest first and ask questions later. It's the prosecutors that have to sort through the crapola.

Heck, if my neighbors didn't like the way I walk my dogs through their yard, they could have me arrested for trespassing.

CougarQuest
07-06-2006, 04:07 PM
Well, they just met...:p:
No, they knew each other for about a couple of hours.

:D

Matt700wlw
07-06-2006, 04:07 PM
His pitching on Saturday night was certainly a crime.

Last night he did his job well.....he was a bit loosened up I guess ;)

CougarQuest
07-06-2006, 04:08 PM
The way most sex case and domestic violence laws are written, as well as public perception of such cases, police are well-advised to arrest first and ask questions later. It's the prosecutors that have to sort through the crapola.

No. No they aren't. And I know.

realreds1
07-06-2006, 04:09 PM
Word. Let's leave the proselytizing on the street corners, please.

Totally agree! Prostitutes have NO BUSINESS being discussed on a Reds baseball board. Leave them on the street corners, please!


Wait, huh?

CTA513
07-06-2006, 04:10 PM
I dont know if this has been posted or not, but I found this picture on the Brewers message board.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060706/capt.50260edea85e4256b4791d9831e052b5.reds_shackel ford_arrest_baseball_wxs102.jpg

I guess its his mug shot.

ochre
07-06-2006, 04:10 PM
The only consequence to us Reds fans is we're at 24 guys for tonight's game.
Did we replace some bullpen pitchers then?

Chip R
07-06-2006, 04:12 PM
I dont know if this has been posted or not, but I found this picture on the Brewers message board.


http://tinyurl.com/m7thu

I guess its his mug shot.

I would hope so. :eek:

CougarQuest
07-06-2006, 04:12 PM
I dont know if this has been posted or not, but I found this picture on the Brewers message board.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060706/capt.50260edea85e4256b4791d9831e052b5.reds_shackel ford_arrest_baseball_wxs102.jpg

I guess its his mug shot.

With a mug like that, don't you usually have to pay

reds44
07-06-2006, 04:12 PM
I dont know if this has been posted or not, but I found this picture on the Brewers message board.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060706/capt.50260edea85e4256b4791d9831e052b5.reds_shackel ford_arrest_baseball_wxs102.jpg

I guess its his mug shot.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

realreds1
07-06-2006, 04:12 PM
The sense I get is, if anything, they're way less perverse than my friends and I were back in the early '80s. I think people forget what free-for-all those years were.


David Lee Roth says hello!

http://usuarios.lycos.es/hardrockbuenosaires/paginas_varios/Fotos/david_lee_roth.jpg

reds44
07-06-2006, 04:13 PM
As a poster or two have said:

I watched the complete game last night until 1am. Narron was talking to him in a serious manner after the game. It did not look baseball related.

Narron must have known during the game what was up. Upon going to the mound to lift Shackelford after he struck out Fielder, Narron just took the ball in disgust. I thought that was really unusual. Of course, we know the manager usually gives a pat on the shoulder or butt. It surprises me that I noticed this. NOW I KNOW WHY!!
I noticed that also. He didn't even look at Shack.

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 04:15 PM
No. No they aren't. And I know.
What part of my statement are you saying no to?

smith288
07-06-2006, 04:18 PM
You never see the guy from Moulin Rouge and Shack together... mystery solved.
http://www.clubmoulinrouge.com/html/images/zidimage.jpghttp://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060706/capt.50260edea85e4256b4791d9831e052b5.reds_shackel ford_arrest_baseball_wxs102.jpg

M2
07-06-2006, 04:19 PM
I've got 3 teens, 13, 15, and 18 and I'll agree with this statement. And you can stretch it back to the 70's as well.

My parents had no idea what I was doing and as long as I stayed out of jail and didn't get a girl pregnant, didn't care.

My kids have the disadvantage of having a dad who tried everything at least once and usually a whole lot more than that.

Ain't that the truth. I've got two sisters a lot younger than I am and the older of the two used to insist her generation was every bit as misbehaven as mine and I'd just shake my head. Then she went to Bennington College, where they still know their way around amorality. After her first year there she asked me, is this the kind of stuff you were talking about? I assured it was.

And the '70s were certainly every bit as randy. I lost count of the number of naked teenagers I stumbled across during my youth in the "me" decade. I used to assume they were a natural part of the woodland/oceanfront/lakeside scenery.

I'm not saying modern teens are angels, but this country's gotten A LOT more socially conservative during the past two decades ... and feel free to include supposed liberals in that mix as well. I don't think this is something that divvies up by political distinctions. This entire nation has gotten, to borrow a phrase from the '70s, uptight.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-06-2006, 04:33 PM
Is that his match.com profile pic?

reds44
07-06-2006, 04:35 PM
Is that his match.com profile pic?
mug shot

kapers
07-06-2006, 04:35 PM
I dont know if this has been posted or not, but I found this picture on the Brewers message board.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060706/capt.50260edea85e4256b4791d9831e052b5.reds_shackel ford_arrest_baseball_wxs102.jpg

I guess its his mug shot.


Good Lord, don't let him put that one on match.com.

Super_Barry11
07-06-2006, 04:37 PM
I hope he gets what's coming to him, because he deserves it. He really does.

redsfan30
07-06-2006, 04:39 PM
I hope he gets what's coming to him, because he deserves it. He really does.
Let the court find him guilty before we start chasing his manhood with a knife.

But if he's guilty...you're right. He'd deserve every bit of whatever would come his way.

Super_Barry11
07-06-2006, 04:41 PM
Let the court find him guilty before we start chasing his manhood with a knife.

But if he's guilty...you're right. He'd deserve every bit of whatever would come his way.

I don't need a court to tell me he's guilty.

Chip R
07-06-2006, 04:42 PM
Hell hath no fury....

reds44
07-06-2006, 04:43 PM
I don't need a court to tell me he's guilty.
:rolleyes:

You have no idea what happend. Were you in the room? Have you heard/seen any evidence? No you are talking out of your behind right now.

Matt700wlw
07-06-2006, 04:43 PM
Let the court find him guilty before we start chasing his manhood with a knife.

But if he's guilty...you're right. He'd deserve every bit of whatever would come his way.

This could be nothing more than some girl trying to get money from him AFTER the fact. It happens often, unfortunately. She may regret sleeping with him and had been drinking, and is now saying she didn't consent, even though she may have. Women aren't always innocent.

It may be nothing like that either....it may literally be nothing.


If it's not that, and he truely sexually assulted this girl, then he should go to prison for a long time and room with some guy named Bubba.


I'm not going to jump to conclusions unfarily.

Super_Barry11
07-06-2006, 04:45 PM
:rolleyes:

You have no idea what happend. Were you in the room? Have you heard/seen any evidence? No you are talking out of your behind right now.

I'm not trying to be rude. I was not in the room in this particular instance. However, I know that he has a very difficult time accepting the word "no" when he hears it. All I can tell you is that I am definitely not talking out of my behind right now.

vaticanplum
07-06-2006, 04:48 PM
Something that's easy to forget when thinking of this issue with the eyes of people, not the eyes of the law, is that sexual assault is an act of violence, not of "sex" as most of us think of it. If he's guilty, then he has committed an act akin to beating someone up -- there are obviously DEGREES of physical assualt and I find this kind of assault among the worst, but they are all physical acts of violence.

If she is crying wolf, then she has committed a crime and should also be punished under the law.

The discussions going on here are very interesting and I recognize that we've veered off track, but I'm just saying that the issue at hand is an act of violence, not of morality. The act IS immoral to most of us, but morality is not tried in court; the laws are. "Sexual assault" means sex solely in the clinical definition of the word. A lot of the stuff that we associate with sex has nothing to do with it.

reds44
07-06-2006, 04:49 PM
I'm not trying to be rude. I was not in the room in this particular instance. However, I know that he has a very difficult time accepting the word "no" when he hears it. All I can tell you is that I am definitely not talking out of my behind right now.
How do you know that?

redsfan30
07-06-2006, 04:52 PM
Superbarry,

What if the girl consented, then after the fact decided she was going to try and get in a Major League ballplayer's pocket and say it wasn't?

You don't know a thing until it's proven.

redsfan30
07-06-2006, 04:54 PM
Something that's easy to forget when thinking of this issue with the eyes of people, not the eyes of the law, is that sexual assault is an act of violence, not of "sex" as most of us think of it. If he's guilty, then he has committed an act akin to beating someone up -- there are obviously DEGREES of physical assualt and I find this kind of assault among the worst, but they are all physical acts of violence.

If she is crying wolf, then she has committed a crime and should also be punished under the law.

The discussions going on here are very interesting and I recognize that we've veered off track, but I'm just saying that the issue at hand is an act of violence, not of morality. The act IS immoral to most of us, but morality is not tried in court; the laws are. "Sexual assault" means sex solely in the clinical definition of the word. A lot of the stuff that we associate with sex has nothing to do with it.
Wisconsin's 3rd degree Sexual Assult definition uses the word "intercourse". So you are right, but sex does play a major role in this.

registerthis
07-06-2006, 04:55 PM
I don't need a court to tell me he's guilty.

The clairvoyancy on this board never ceases to astound me.

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 04:55 PM
Lovely news to start the day with

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 04:56 PM
The clairvoyancy on this board never ceases to astound me.
Substitute "in the world" for "on this board" and I agree.

smith288
07-06-2006, 04:57 PM
I'm not trying to be rude. I was not in the room in this particular instance. However, I know that he has a very difficult time accepting the word "no" when he hears it. All I can tell you is that I am definitely not talking out of my behind right now.
Sounds like you are insinuating inside knowledge so either quit talking about what you "know" or try to explain what you are talking about.

Super_Barry11
07-06-2006, 04:58 PM
The clairvoyancy on this board never ceases to astound me.

It's fine if you feel this way. You don't know me, and I understand that you would come to this conclusion. I'm sorry I even posted in this thread to begin with.

realreds1
07-06-2006, 04:58 PM
I'm not trying to be rude. I was not in the room in this particular instance. However, I know that he has a very difficult time accepting the word "no" when he hears it. All I can tell you is that I am definitely not talking out of my behind right now.


I don't mean to pry, but I think my question will help some others on the board understand your stance a bit more. You do meet a lot of the Reds ballplayers, do you not? Has Shackleford tried anything on you? Did it happen to a friend? Please explain what you know...

vaticanplum
07-06-2006, 04:59 PM
Wisconsin's 3rd degree Sexual Assult definition uses the word "intercourse". So you are right, but sex does play a major role in this.

"intercourse" is what I mean by clinical. "Sex" by definition is a the same clinical term, but as we discuss it often has to do with feelings, morals, relationships, what-have-you, and that's what I mean by connotations of the word that don't have to do with a violent act.

TRF
07-06-2006, 05:00 PM
I have a 16 year old daughter, and a 14 year old son. I'm in web development, and you would think i would know better, but i fainally read my daughter's MySpace site last month. Imagine my surprise when I discovered she loves raspberry vodka.

The kids have no idea just how dangerous these sites are. It turns out my son has a site too. Not on MySpace, but on something called Roosterteeth. We aren't hands off parents. Our kids get the "talk"... a lot. You can tell by reading what is bluster and what is fact, if you know your kids at all. Ours was mostly bluster, but my daughter admitted to tasting the raspberry vodka at a friend's house. needless to say she isn't hanging around with her this summer.

kapers
07-06-2006, 05:00 PM
I'm not trying to be rude. I was not in the room in this particular instance. However, I know that he has a very difficult time accepting the word "no" when he hears it. All I can tell you is that I am definitely not talking out of my behind right now.

It sounds like he may have been in similar situations? At least one of which you are aware of? If he's the type of player who feels his status as a ballplayer entitles him to get sex whenever he wants, then I'm glad she's making a case. If he did what most other men AND women would do when on a date that ends up back in his hotel room in birthday suits, then this is a bit of a stretch. Personally, if I wasn't planning to go all the way, I wouldn't let it get as far as it did. But if she said to stop and he didn't, he was wrong. If she wasn't clear about it, they should both accept responsibility and move on. The fact that he's still facing a judge in the morning means something, just not sure what.

dsmith421
07-06-2006, 05:01 PM
You have no idea what happend. Were you in the room? Have you heard/seen any evidence? No you are talking out of your behind right now.

She knows a lot of the Reds ballplayers and has been a poster here for a long time. I'm more inclined to listen to her than most of the other conjecture being thrown around here.

smith288
07-06-2006, 05:02 PM
I have a 16 year old daughter, and a 14 year old son. I'm in web development, and you would think i would know better, but i fainally read my daughter's MySpace site last month. Imagine my surprise when I discovered she loves raspberry vodka.

The kids have no idea just how dangerous these sites are. It turns out my son has a site too. Not on MySpace, but on something called Roosterteeth. We aren't hands off parents. Our kids get the "talk"... a lot. You can tell by reading what is bluster and what is fact, if you know your kids at all. Ours was mostly bluster, but my daughter admitted to tasting the raspberry vodka at a friend's house. needless to say she isn't hanging around with her this summer.
When I was her age, Gin was my fav. ;)

I dont think my parents ever found out because there wasnt a Myspace to plaster my incriminations.

Cedric
07-06-2006, 05:03 PM
You are lucky she just tasted it. I'm still pretty young and I can't think of that many friends who didn't drink pretty routinely at age 16. Almost half the damn school did.

Super_Barry11
07-06-2006, 05:05 PM
As a female, I guess I always sympathize with the woman in the case. Sorry to get everyone fired up. I really wasn't trying to be a jerk, I promise!!

RedsFan75
07-06-2006, 05:06 PM
You are lucky she just tasted it. I'm still pretty young and I can't think of that many friends who didn't drink pretty routinely at age 16. Almost half the damn school did.

Living in a 'dry' county in KY my daughter was commenting on how much was available to the high schoolers she knew.

Danny Serafini
07-06-2006, 05:08 PM
Shackelford just got sent down, Gosling is up to replace him.

Matt700wlw
07-06-2006, 05:08 PM
As a female, I guess I always sympathize with the woman in the case. Sorry to get everyone fired up. I really wasn't trying to be a jerk, I promise!!

It's understandable.

Redsland
07-06-2006, 05:10 PM
She knows a lot of the Reds ballplayers and has been a poster here for a long time. I'm more inclined to listen to her than most of the other conjecture being thrown around here.
Correct. Plus, she's the sweetest person you'll ever meet.

If she says Shack has a problem hearing the word "no," then he does.

Chip R
07-06-2006, 05:10 PM
Perhaps those of you who wish further details on SB's point of view should do so via PM or e-mail. No need to air personal business on the board.

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 05:11 PM
Correct. Plus, she's the sweetest person you'll ever meet.

If she says Shack has a problem hearing the word "no," then he does.
Regardless, this is still not the place for it to come out.

RFS62
07-06-2006, 05:11 PM
As a female, I guess I always sympathize with the woman in the case. Sorry to get everyone fired up. I really wasn't trying to be a jerk, I promise!!



Cut her a break, guys.

She's a good person, not a troublemaker.

TRF
07-06-2006, 05:14 PM
You are lucky she just tasted it. I'm still pretty young and I can't think of that many friends who didn't drink pretty routinely at age 16. Almost half the damn school did.

yeah. we keep a weird kind of control with her. she has her freedom's, but we let her know at any time we just might be watching. I don't allow unsupervised internet access at all anymore, the computer is password protected, and I am considering a GPS device for her car.

Her loudest complaint is I don't trust her. Thing is, I do trust her. Everyone else, not so much.


Back to Shack, innocent until proven guilty, but I am thinking based on reports in this thread that it will get dropped. I'm also betting Shack gets exiled in the near future. too bad as he makes a good LOOGY.

Dan
07-06-2006, 05:16 PM
As a female, I guess I always sympathize with the woman in the case. Sorry to get everyone fired up. I really wasn't trying to be a jerk, I promise!!

Let me add my voice here. I've known her (from here) for a few years and if what she says goes, then it goes. It shouldn't even be a question.

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 05:19 PM
Agreed.

SB doesn't make stuff up.

Redsland
07-06-2006, 05:21 PM
Regardless, this is still not the place for it to come out.
Then why is she getting bashed instead of the ones begging her for lurid facts to "prove it," or the ones insulting her by accusing her of "pulling it out of her behind" or dismissing her as having "no idea" what ballplayers do after hours.

They are the ones who are out of line.

Chip R
07-06-2006, 05:22 PM
Correct. Plus, she's the sweetest person you'll ever meet.


Hey, you said I was. :laugh:

harangatang
07-06-2006, 05:22 PM
shackelford should have posted on my space, how he plans to function in his job and lower his ERA below stratospheric altitudesI wouldn't normally take anything less than tropospheric altitudes but with this
bullpen I would settle for tropopausal altitudes. ;)

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 05:23 PM
They are the ones who are out of line.
Agreed... but this is not a place for the airing of "dirty laundry" even if the laundry is actually dirty.

kapers
07-06-2006, 05:26 PM
Shackelford just got sent down, Gosling is up to replace him.

Looks like a good move. Hopefully Gosling won't be the one moved tomorrow when Eddie shows up. Probably wise to keep some distance between the Reds and Shack at least until after he's gone to court tomorrow.

Reds Nd2
07-06-2006, 05:31 PM
Looks like a good move. Hopefully Gosling won't be the one moved tomorrow when Eddie shows up.

I'm guessing someone from the pen goes on the DL to make room for Guardado tomorrow. When Claussen comes off the DL, Mays gets DFA'd.

Redsland
07-06-2006, 05:33 PM
Agreed... but this is not a place for the airing of "dirty laundry" even if the laundry is actually dirty.
I guess I'm not understanding why you quoted a post of mine, since the most dirty laundry in this thread came from either the AP or Milwaukee Police, depending.

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 05:35 PM
I guess I'm not understanding why you quoted a post of mine, since the most dirty laundry in this thread came from either the AP or Milwaukee Police, depending.
Going to the police and filing a complaint is a whole different ballgame from posting on a message board.

gilpdawg
07-06-2006, 05:36 PM
Having graduated high school in '96 I can say this is true. At least from what I can remember......:confused: :help:
Me too, and you're right. My high school was the party of all parties.

flyer85
07-06-2006, 05:37 PM
I guess it is safe to say that no matter the outcome it is a sad incident.

Danny Serafini
07-06-2006, 05:47 PM
Then why is she getting bashed instead of the ones begging her for lurid facts to "prove it," or the ones insulting her by accusing her of "pulling it out of her behind" or dismissing her as having "no idea" what ballplayers do after hours.

They are the ones who are out of line.

Because this isn't the kind of matter to just throw hints about. If you've got something specific to say then say it. If you don't want to say it (which is perfectly OK) then don't say anything. But you can't just go halfway with it and toss up innuendo.

reds44
07-06-2006, 05:49 PM
I talked to her, and she explained it alittle to me. Don't bash her, she doesn't deserve it.

Roy Tucker
07-06-2006, 05:51 PM
yeah. we keep a weird kind of control with her. she has her freedom's, but we let her know at any time we just might be watching. I don't allow unsupervised internet access at all anymore, the computer is password protected, and I am considering a GPS device for her car.

Her loudest complaint is I don't trust her. Thing is, I do trust her. Everyone else, not so much.
There are GPS cell phones as well. Just sayin'.

I tell my daughter (15 yrs.) the old Ronald Reagan chestnut "trust, but verify", i.e. every so often I'll check up on things.

We routinely asked my son (now 18) who he was out with and where they went. If he went somewhere other than where he said he was going, he called to let us know. If we heard different names/different places, we'd take note. Nothing heavy handed, but we kept tabs on who what where when and had a general idea of the crowds he hung with. He learned quickly the better he played by the rules, the more freedom he got.

Plus we made our basement very kid-friendly (xboxe/ps2, wireless net, pool table, cable tv, foosball table, etc) and encouraged him to have kids over. You get to meet the kids and parents when they come to pick them up.

We're now trying to get our 15 yr. old daughter indoctrinated. It's happening, but she is the wild mustang of the household and not easily tamed. It's happening though.

TRF
07-06-2006, 05:56 PM
Roy, it's like you are in my house. We are doing the same thing with our kids. At least we are trying to do that. It's tough because we are not the most affluent of households, and my daughter is a cheerleader. And that whole squad is pretty stinking rich. Makes my kid rebel against the group she worked so hard to join.

Redsland
07-06-2006, 05:56 PM
Going to the police and filing a complaint is a whole different ballgame from posting on a message board.
You said this thread was not the place for dirty laundry.

And for some reason you quoted me when you said it.

Dirty laundry is defined as, "Personal affairs that could cause embarrassment or distress if made public."

In this thread, without objection or complaint, are news accounts, police reports, and match.com pages that all contain personal and potentially embarrassing information. For example, I now know that when Brian Shakelford goes on the road, he likes to meet women on the internet and take them out to dinner after games, where he presumably pours wine down their throats and tells them he'd like to see them naked in his hotel room, but promises not to touch them. Oh, and he'll be naked, too.

You didn't quote those posts, and I've got to tell you, they're quite a bit more scandalous than anything else in this thread. No, instead, you quoted me for telling people to back off a respected poster.

So I guess I'm saying that while your holier-than-thou is cute, quit using me in it.

dabvu2498
07-06-2006, 06:08 PM
You said this thread was not the place for dirty laundry.

And for some reason you quoted me when you said it.

Dirty laundry is defined as, "Personal affairs that could cause embarrassment or distress if made public."

In this thread, without objection or complaint, are news accounts, police reports, and match.com pages that all contain personal and potentially embarrassing information. For example, I now know that when Brian Shakelford goes on the road, he likes to meet women on the internet and take them out to dinner after games, where he presumably pours wine down their throats and tells them he'd like to see them naked in his hotel room, but promises not to touch them. Oh, and he'll be naked, too.

You didn't quote those posts, and I've got to tell you, they're quite a bit more scandalous than anything else in this thread. No, instead, you quoted me for telling people to back off a respected poster.

So I guess I'm saying that while your holier-than-thou is cute, quit using me in it.
Easy there, killer.

News police reports are public record. If any of us had a criminal record, we could view almost any of that information on the internet. Then, people from the media take those facts and turn them into a news report.

Shackleford had a match.com profile. People could look at it, free of charge, anytime they wanted. The media can reprint anything on the internet that they feel is reliable as it is a public domain.

I could come on this message board and say Jason LaRue kicked my dog and Brandon Phillips beat up my grandma and what does that mean? Nada... I don't know SB... don't know any of you , in fact. She may be the most honest, truth-telling person in the world, but I'd look for fact and truth somewhere other than an anonymous message board.

For example: when it's in a police report and/or reported by a reliable media source, it is no longer "dirty laundry." It starts to become fact.

Also, if you go back to my original post in which I quoted you, I agreed with you. The other posters who were going after SB were over the line.

If you'd like to continue to argue semantics, feel free to PM me.

Joseph
07-06-2006, 06:11 PM
700 is reporting he has been released and no charges are filed, though the investigation continues.

M2
07-06-2006, 06:12 PM
For example, I now know that when Brian Shakelford goes on the road, he likes to meet women on the internet and take them out to dinner after games, where he presumably pours wine down their throats and tells them he'd like to see them naked in his hotel room, but promises not to touch them. Oh, and he'll be naked, too.

So what you're saying is he's exceptionally sauve. Puffy, take notes.

RedsBaron
07-06-2006, 06:15 PM
So what you're saying is he's exceptionally sauve. Puffy, take notes.
How do you know that Puffy didn't teach him?;)

Joseph
07-06-2006, 06:22 PM
So what you're saying is he's exceptionally sauve. Puffy, take notes.

Didn't Puffy invent that move?

LincolnparkRed
07-06-2006, 06:24 PM
For example, I now know that when Brian Shakelford goes on the road, he likes to meet women on the internet and take them out to dinner after games, where he presumably pours wine down their throats and tells them he'd like to see them naked in his hotel room, but promises not to touch them. Oh, and he'll be naked, too.


Insert any fraternity name for Brian and change dinner to party & wine to beer and you have most college fraternity's idea of a good time

paintmered
07-06-2006, 06:50 PM
Let me add my voice here. I've known her (from here) for a few years and if what she says goes, then it goes. It shouldn't even be a question.


Agreed. I've known SB for years (outside RZ). The responses directed towards her are absolutely sickening. You should all be ashamed of your yourselves for treating her like this.

Heath
07-06-2006, 06:51 PM
Didn't Puffy invent that move?

no, that was Raisor.

Just saying.

Also, though I've never had a long conversation with SB11, ones who know (more than 10 ;) ) comment on her positively. I'm inclined to believe SB11 in this case.

registerthis
07-06-2006, 06:54 PM
Agreed. I've known SB for years (outside RZ). The responses directed towards her are absolutely sickening. You should all be ashamed of your yourselves for treating her like this.

Come on, up until this thread I didn't know anything about S_B. If it had been anyone else making the post, I would likely have responded in the same manner. We don't all know the personal stories of all of the posters here, so let's back off the self-righteous posturing for a moment, please.

And, FWIW, I PMed her directly to apologize for my remark, so I wasn't going to post anything further about it. But the incessant "you should be ashamed of yourselves" posts directed towards people who had no idea who S_B was or the credibility she brought is gettting more than a bit tiresome. Enough already.

Puffy
07-06-2006, 06:57 PM
Boy, you'd never know this was my first post in this thread!

And my match.com ad is way cooler than Shack's.

Chip has a profile on chickenpluckers.com if any of you are interested.

Redsland
07-06-2006, 06:58 PM
For example: when it's in a police report and/or reported by a reliable media source, it is no longer "dirty laundry."
Really?

If you'd like to continue to argue semantics, feel free to PM me.
Right after you re-read the definition I provided.

Heath
07-06-2006, 07:01 PM
Boy, you'd never know this was my first post in this thread!

And my match.com ad is way cooler than Shack's.

Chip has a profile on chickenpluckers.com if any of you are interested.

I thought RL was the CHICKEN-MAAAAANN :confused: :D ;)

No thanks on chickenpluckers.com. I prefer my chicken skinless and boneless and 99 cents a pound. Kinda like my posts.

CougarQuest
07-06-2006, 07:03 PM
I'm sorry, but I look at his picture and think: "No wonder Kroger doesn't use paper bags anymore, this dude must've bought them all"

Chip R
07-06-2006, 07:11 PM
I'm sorry, but I look at his picture and think: "No wonder Kroger doesn't use paper bags anymore, this dude must've bought them all"
Amazing what being a ballplayer will do for you.

vaticanplum
07-06-2006, 07:17 PM
Amazing what being a ballplayer will do for you.

People say that a lot...I wonder if it's really true. Derek Jeter, fine, but a mediocre (at best) relief pitcher for the Cincinnati Reds? Who's not that good-looking? Whose name is Shackelford? Most girls I imagine have never heard of him, and I can use myself as an example of a girl who has, and frankly I think Brian Shackelford would have a hard time sweet-talking me.

...ahh, and the "necessity" of his match.com profile just hit me.

Reds Fanatic
07-06-2006, 07:27 PM
Latest update from Marc's blog. Shackelford has been released from jail.


ATLANTA -- Brian Shackelford has been released from Milwaukee County Jail without being charged or posting bail.

He will have to return to Milwaukee on Aug. 21 for a meeting with the district attorney, but until then he's a free man.

He'll have 72 hours to report to Louisville.

Danny Serafini
07-06-2006, 07:37 PM
When I first saw the headline I was thinking he got cut, gave me a brief scare.

gm
07-06-2006, 07:47 PM
I'm intrigued by the timeline. If the game had ended in "regulation" time (after 9 innings) could Shak have slipped on out of town, ahead of the law?

Falls City Beer
07-06-2006, 08:18 PM
I'm intrigued by the timeline. If the game had ended in "regulation" time (after 9 innings) could Shak have slipped on out of town, ahead of the law?

Yeah, but whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 08:21 PM
I thought RL was the CHICKEN-MAAAAANN :confused: :D ;)

I think he is now LemonMan

Heath
07-06-2006, 08:22 PM
ATLANTA -- Brian Shackelford has been released from Milwaukee County Jail without being charged or posting bail.

He will have to return to Milwaukee on Aug. 21 for a meeting with the district attorney, but until then he's a free man.

He'll have 72 hours to report to Louisville.

If I were Brian Shackelford, I'd take the full 72 hours and take "the long way home from Milwaukee". I'd be doing some long-term future thinking about what I just did (no matter what happened) and figure out how to change myself.

Then, I'd work my tail off to go back to Shack 2005. That's the only way you learn.

M2
07-06-2006, 08:38 PM
Didn't Puffy invent that move?

My favorite move is Gold Star for robot boy ... but I digress.

Krusty
07-06-2006, 09:40 PM
If I were Brian Shackelford, I'd take the full 72 hours and take "the long way home from Milwaukee". I'd be doing some long-term future thinking about what I just did (no matter what happened) and figure out how to change myself.

Then, I'd work my tail off to go back to Shack 2005. That's the only way you learn.

Whether anything legal comes out of this, you have to figure he will be in the Reds front office doghouse for quite some time.

jimbo
07-06-2006, 09:54 PM
Whether anything legal comes out of this, you have to figure he will be in the Reds front office doghouse for quite some time.

I'm not sure why he would be in anyone's doghouse if it is shown that he did nothing illegal.

Krusty
07-06-2006, 09:57 PM
I'm not sure why he would be in anyone's doghouse if it is shown that he did nothing illegal.

He would be in the doghouse for putting him in situations that could have been illegal.

jimbo
07-06-2006, 10:13 PM
He would be in the doghouse for putting him in situations that could have been illegal.

We don't know the whole story yet, but from the way it sounds he went out to dinner with this girl and went back to the hotel. If that's putting yourself in a situation that could be illegal, half the league would be in trouble.

reds44
07-06-2006, 10:14 PM
He would be in the doghouse for putting him in situations that could have been illegal.
Having sex?

If he indeed didn't do it, how is that putting yourself in a situation that could be illegal?

Team Clark
07-06-2006, 11:39 PM
I'd have to say that most of the one night stands I had back in the day led to varing degrees of happiness. Some of the fleeting ... and some of them fondly recalled from time-to-time to this day.

GL

I will stand with you on that one. I remember this one time at Band Camp....

Team Clark
07-06-2006, 11:44 PM
As a female, I guess I always sympathize with the woman in the case. Sorry to get everyone fired up. I really wasn't trying to be a jerk, I promise!!

Situations like this transcend the game and get inside people's emotions. Completely understood. I feel the same way about a few SABR heads.

gonelong
07-07-2006, 02:33 AM
This statement couldn't be further from the truth. Go bowling and playing video games is not what we do. Yes going to the movies happens alot, as does sporting events, but that is far from the only thing we do.

The kids in the area I grew up in are plain vanilla compared to what we did.

You have no idea where I grew up, so I don't see how you are qualified to disagree with my statement.

I realize that the area I grew up in is not likely representative of the entire US, thus I qualified the statement.

GL

kheidg-
07-07-2006, 04:38 AM
She knows a lot of the Reds ballplayers and has been a poster here for a long time. I'm more inclined to listen to her than most of the other conjecture being thrown around here.

Knows? Give me a definition please... if I know someone it usually means I correspond with them on at least a monthly basis. I don't think this is the case. I don't care about how often he/she posts here, it is more along the lines if you know the person, which I am about 99 percent sure she does not.

kheidg-
07-07-2006, 04:40 AM
700 is reporting he has been released and no charges are filed, though the investigation continues.

The most important post of the thread.

kaldaniels
07-07-2006, 09:39 AM
...hadn't seen this yet

3829

Chip R
07-07-2006, 10:20 AM
People say that a lot...I wonder if it's really true. Derek Jeter, fine, but a mediocre (at best) relief pitcher for the Cincinnati Reds? Who's not that good-looking? Whose name is Shackelford? Most girls I imagine have never heard of him, and I can use myself as an example of a girl who has, and frankly I think Brian Shackelford would have a hard time sweet-talking me.

...ahh, and the "necessity" of his match.com profile just hit me.

There are some ladies out there who will be with a ballplayer just because he's a ballplayer no matter how he looks or if he has the social skills of a chair. That's a fact. If Shack went on My Space and he was a guy who worked at Kroger, I don't believe he would get the attention he has received from ladies on there. You may not find him attractive but some women are willing to look past that because he is a ballplayer. It's not just guys who have problems thinking with the "big head".

REDREAD
07-07-2006, 11:43 AM
Just heard on WLW: The victim met him on match.com, went to dinner after Monday's game and back to his hotel room for sex. She told police she had
2nd thoughts, although she enjoyed it, had indicated she didn't want to. I think it also said she had consented, maybe begrudgingly, I don't know. But this doesn't sound like something that would actually stick. They also said he's staying on the active roster. I'm a woman and even I don't see how an arrest is warranted if she consented and then had 2nd thoughts. Is there more to this than being released?

Sounds like Shack will be cleared then.
Let's see the girl willingly went to his room, consented, and then either well after things started or after the deed was done, she changed her mind.

Seriously, I think this is the classic case of the girl extracting revenge because the player blew her off after sex.

REDREAD
07-07-2006, 11:45 AM
.

I have yet to find a case where a one night stand has led to riches or happiness or answers to life's problems.
...

Worked for me. I'm set for life now. Have plenty of time to surf Redszone all day, and lead a life of total bliss. :laugh:

MWM
07-07-2006, 11:47 AM
RR, how could you possibly form that opinion based on the few sentences that were released to the press?

REDREAD
07-07-2006, 12:12 PM
RR, how could you possibly form that opinion based on the few sentences that were released to the press?

Let's see, she willingly went to her hotel room and took off all her clothes. It seemed like she initially consented. Did she make any attempt to leave the room? Doesn't seem like it.

I have a hard time believing that she is so naive that if she went into a pro baseball players hotel room and undressed that she didn't know what was going to happen. Again, I bet Shack blew her off later (or something else to annoy her), and now she's extracting her revenge.

Of course, I don't know for sure. I'm purely speculating, but I bet Shack gets proved innocent.

Again, if she "changed her mind", why didn't she just leave? Or if she was so unsure, why did she let it start? Frankly, I find it ludicrous that she can claim assault if she "initially consented" (as was reported).

vaticanplum
07-07-2006, 12:22 PM
Let's see, she willingly went to her hotel room and took off all her clothes. It seemed like she initially consented. Did she make any attempt to leave the room? Doesn't seem like it.

I have a hard time believing that she is so naive that if she went into a pro baseball players hotel room and undressed that she didn't know what was going to happen. Again, I bet Shack blew her off later (or something else to annoy her), and now she's extracting her revenge.

Of course, I don't know for sure. I'm purely speculating, but I bet Shack gets proved innocent.

I'm not assuming Shackelford is guilty, and I'm not assuming this woman is guilty either. Filing these kinds of charges and enduring the subsequent investigation is a tedious, time-consuming, grueling and often very painful process, and law enforcement officials don't exactly walk you through it with a hand of encouragement. What very few details we have of this case are sketchy ones through a radio station parlayed through a few paraphrased sentences on a message board. We know essentially nothing about what actually happened, and since the suspect is known, the police have no reason to release any further details to the press at this time.


Again, if she "changed her mind", why didn't she just leave? Or if she was so unsure, why did she let it start? Frankly, I find it ludicrous that she can claim assault if she "initially consented" (as was reported).

That (even if it's true, which we don't know it is) could mean any number of things. Perhaps she physically couldn't leave; any girl in the world can tell you that in certain compromising positions your physical strength can be seriously overwhelmed by almost any man. Perhaps she was absolutely sure she wanted to, then changed her mind. It could mean that over dinner she said she wanted to have sex with him. It could mean that she consented while she had been drinking then sobered up and changed her mind. It could mean that she consented while sober then had a few drinks and got woozy and rethought things. It could mean that she was all for it until the very last minute. If she said no before it happened and he forced it to happen anyway, it is assault. Period.

westofyou
07-07-2006, 12:23 PM
I'm not assuming Shackelford is guilty, and I'm not assuming this woman is guilty either.

And that's where we all should be.

dabvu2498
07-07-2006, 12:31 PM
Filing these kinds of charges and enduring the subsequent investigation is a tedious, time-consuming, grueling and often very painful process, and law enforcement officials don't exactly walk you through it with a hand of encouragement.
Good all-around post, VP!

I was talking with a "scrappy, crafty" veteran lawyer friend of mine who also happens to be a baseball fan. He said 20 years ago, the cops would never have even questioned Shackleford, 15 years ago it would never have gone to trial, 10 years ago a defendant would never lose a case like this and now it would be 50/50.

My opinion: police reports have more truth than lies in them.

dsmith421
07-07-2006, 12:31 PM
Knows? Give me a definition please... if I know someone it usually means I correspond with them on at least a monthly basis. I don't think this is the case. I don't care about how often he/she posts here, it is more along the lines if you know the person, which I am about 99 percent sure she does not.

If you cared to investigate (for example, by PMing her personally instead of questioning her honesty on a public site) I suspect you would find she is in regular contact with several current or former members of the ballclub.

Of course, under your definition of "knowing someone," I arguably don't know every single one of my uncles and aunts, my youngest sister, half my college friends, and 99% of the guys I went to high school with since I now live 2500 miles away and don't adhere to a strict once-a-month calling schedule.

Redsland
07-07-2006, 12:46 PM
Whether anything legal comes out of this, you have to figure he will be in the Reds front office doghouse for quite some time.
Marty and Hal opined that his career with the Reds is probably through, and they both lamented the fact that this was because of "allegations" that appear to be baseless.

vaticanplum
07-07-2006, 12:52 PM
Marty and Hal opined that his career with the Reds is probably through, and they both lamented the fact that this was because of "allegations" that appear to be baseless.

Ok, that really bothers me. Marty and Hal have as much information about the case as we do which, again, is almost none. They have no idea how baseless these allegations may or may not be. But people will hear them on the radio, and use of the word "appear" notwithstanding, will believe that Marty and Hal have a better grasp of the case by the nature of their jobs and decide that Shack is innocent without any information. Nor do they really know that his Reds career would be finished were he proven innocent. All speculation, and very damaging in the public opinion. These people don't think about what they're saying.

Chip R
07-07-2006, 01:11 PM
Ok, that really bothers me. Marty and Hal have as much information about the case as we do which, again, is almost none. They have no idea how baseless these allegations may or may not be. But people will hear them on the radio, and use of the word "appear" notwithstanding, will believe that Marty and Hal have a better grasp of the case by the nature of their jobs and decide that Shack is innocent without any information. Nor do they really know that his Reds career would be finished were he proven innocent. All speculation, and very damaging in the public opinion. These people don't think about what they're saying.

Lack of knowledge hasn't ever stopped them from "opining" about baseball stuff.

It is interesting, though, to see what the Reds eventually do about this. If he's not charged, or if he is and he is found not guilty, do they let him go? They don't even have to use the charges as a reason. They can just say he isn't good enough. Or do they just leave him in minor league limbo till he is a 6 year free agent? If he is charged and convicted, what then? Even if he pleads down, it's still a conviction. What role does the MLBPA play in this?

penantboundreds
07-07-2006, 01:26 PM
i heard today that the charges were dropped already....thats not the case?

Chip R
07-07-2006, 01:44 PM
i heard today that the charges were dropped already....thats not the case?

No charges have been filed yet.

Jpup
07-07-2006, 01:44 PM
i heard today that the charges were dropped already....thats not the case?

he has never been charged with a crime, yet.

registerthis
07-07-2006, 01:49 PM
Ok, that really bothers me. Marty and Hal have as much information about the case as we do which, again, is almost none. They have no idea how baseless these allegations may or may not be.

Very true. Shackelford being released without being charged doesn't mean the allegations against him were baseless, only that the police need additional time to study the evidence being presented.

That being said, it would be unfortunate if allegations that turned out to be baseless cost Shackelford his job. We just don't know yet how this will turn out.

reds44
07-07-2006, 03:27 PM
http://www.deadspin.com/sports/upload/2006/07/shackelfordprofile.jpg

registerthis
07-07-2006, 03:57 PM
http://www.deadspin.com/sports/upload/2006/07/shackelfordprofile.jpg

I wonder if we should "report a concern"?

KronoRed
07-07-2006, 04:25 PM
I would

Jr's Boy
07-07-2006, 05:43 PM
Man you guys oughta be P.I.'s the way you find info.

REDREAD
07-07-2006, 06:14 PM
. Perhaps she was absolutely sure she wanted to, then changed her mind. .

Well, I'm not condoning continuing if the girl changes her mind, but the woman needs to take responsiblity as well. If you go to someone's hotel room and take off all your clothes without being 100% sure, that's pretty stupid and putting yourself in "harm's way" if you don't want sex to happen. Unless Shack physically forced her to have sex or physically forced her from leaving, I really don't have any sympathy for her. What about Shack? Is it fair to him that a woman can consent to having sex and then change her mind after it starts and blackmail him? We don't know the whole story, but it's possible this chick was looking for this to happen and try to blackmail him with it.
I just find it hard to believe that a woman picking up pro ballplayers on the net, and getting naked in their hotel rooms would not be able to figure out what was going to happen.