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View Full Version : Travis Chick traded for Eddie Guardado



Danny Serafini
07-06-2006, 03:38 PM
Just came up on the team press notes. Reds get cash in the deal, don't know how much.

Joseph
07-06-2006, 03:41 PM
Very interesting.

Is he still closer material? Is he a set up guy? Who gets tossed from the pen now?

redsfan30
07-06-2006, 03:43 PM
Judging by his stats for this season, he's not closing.

It's gotta be between sending Shackelford down or designating David Weathers for assignment.

jimbo
07-06-2006, 03:43 PM
From Seattle? Hmmmm.....this guys has put up a lot of saves in the past few seasons, not sure what he is doing this year. Will have to go check it out. Sounds like a good addition on the surface.

reds44
07-06-2006, 03:44 PM
Judging by his stats for this season, he's not closing.

It's gotta be between sending Shackelford down or designating David Weathers for assignment.
Link to his stats?

Razor Shines
07-06-2006, 03:44 PM
Another over 35 guy

Danny Serafini
07-06-2006, 03:45 PM
He's been struggling this year:


W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR BB SO
2006 1 3 5.48 28 0 0 0 5 8 23.0 29 14 14 8 11 22

But if he gets back to this...


Year Team W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR BB SO
2003 MIN 3 5 2.89 66 0 0 0 41 45 65.1 50 22 21 7 14 60
2004 SEA 2 2 2.78 41 0 0 0 18 25 45.1 31 14 14 8 14 45
2005 SEA 2 3 2.72 58 0 0 0 36 41 56.1 52 23 17 7 15 48

nmculbreth
07-06-2006, 03:45 PM
He's been awful this year, he should fit right in with the rest of our staff.

captainmorgan07
07-06-2006, 03:45 PM
stick him right in the closers role they dont' call him everyday eddie for notting

jimbo
07-06-2006, 03:45 PM
5.48 ERA with a 1.74 WHIP........looks ugly. He did put up 36 saves last season with a 2.72 ERA and a 1.19 WHIP. Wonder what happened to him this season.

GoReds
07-06-2006, 03:46 PM
Change of scenery? Different league? Who knows.

jimbo
07-06-2006, 03:46 PM
Link to his stats?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5051

Krusty
07-06-2006, 03:46 PM
Amen. Maybe a change of scenery will do Guardado good. Up till this year his stats were very good. Maybe this will allow Coffey to go back to the setup role where he excelled before the Reds moved him to the closer role.

I wonder if the Mariners are picking up any of his salary? Chick might pan out but you have to feel good about the pitching prospects at the lower level that Krivsky felt he could unload another of Dan O'Brien's acquisitions.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=2893

Razor Shines
07-06-2006, 03:46 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=115216
there they are....not great.

Danny Serafini
07-06-2006, 03:46 PM
Judging by his stats for this season, he's not closing.

It's gotta be between sending Shackelford down or designating David Weathers for assignment.

Don't know if he'll get the DFA yet, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him go on the DL.

reds44
07-06-2006, 03:47 PM
http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=sea&playerID=115216

There are his stats. He has an ERA north of 5 this year, but had a 2.72 with 36 saves last year. Bullpen pitchers are VERY hard to find, so moves like this need to be made.

I like it.

redsfan30
07-06-2006, 03:47 PM
Wow...didn't know he was that solid from 03-05. If he rebounds, we've found ourselves a closer.

If he closes, that pushes Coffey back into his more comfortable role in the eighth inning, and also pushes everyone else back an inning.

I like it alittle more than I initially did.

CTA513
07-06-2006, 03:47 PM
stick him right in the closers role they dont' call him everyday eddie for notting

Let him close and move Coffey back to being an everyday reliever.

Johnny Footstool
07-06-2006, 03:48 PM
Twins connection strikes again.

Guardado is toast - an extreme flyball pitcher who gives up a lot of HR. He'll be even worse outside of that cavern in Seattle. At least he can strike batters out at a decent rate.

I guess the front office thinks Travis Chick has absolutely zero upside.

Krusty
07-06-2006, 03:48 PM
Krivsky knows about Guardado since their days with the Twins. I'm sure the Reds have been scouting him up till the acquisition.

RBA
07-06-2006, 03:49 PM
Well, at least he will be close to the Reds great baseball surgeon. :rolleyes:

Razor Shines
07-06-2006, 03:49 PM
Can we get a link to his stats?

toledodan
07-06-2006, 03:49 PM
he has a good track record as a closer. moving coffey back to the set-up role will help the pen alot. i would dl weathers or DFA yan. while i don't care for weathers he is a better option than yan if healthy.

nmculbreth
07-06-2006, 03:50 PM
Here are his splits for the season, other than May he's been pretty awful this season. I hope a change of scenery / leagues will help but I'm not feeling very optimistic.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=2893

Chip R
07-06-2006, 03:51 PM
I guess the front office thinks Travis Chick has absolutely zero upside.

He was a DanO acquisition after all.

Krusty
07-06-2006, 03:51 PM
Here are his splits for the season, other than May he's been pretty awful this season. I hope a change of scenery / leagues will help but I'm not feeling very optimistic.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=2893

The way the bullpen has performed, any acquistion will be a welcome addition.

Hitters in the NL will be unfamilar with Guardado. Advantage goes to Guardado.

jimbo
07-06-2006, 03:52 PM
Makes $6.25 million......wonder how much of that salary Seattle is picking up?

captainmorgan07
07-06-2006, 03:54 PM
how many years does he have left on this contract

markymark69
07-06-2006, 03:54 PM
I feel good about this trade. Everyone has been clamoring for bullpen help and based on what is out there, I think this is a good move. Krivsky, is at least trying and not just standing pat hoping that what we have will suddenly figure it out. Give him credit for making a move. Because right now, they have no one and I mean one that can get batters consistently, especially with the game on the line.

Team Clark
07-06-2006, 03:55 PM
5.48 ERA with a 1.74 WHIP........looks ugly. He did put up 36 saves last season with a 2.72 ERA and a 1.19 WHIP. Wonder what happened to him this season.

Lack of Vitamins???

boognish
07-06-2006, 03:59 PM
IMO, this is the kind of "outside the box" deal the Reds needed to make. Guardado wasn't really on anyone's radar, as an aged vet, but the risk is minimal (for Travis Chick) and Guardado peaked late--2001, his age 31 season saw his ERA lower to about 3.5 and he barely cracked 1 K/IP--and he is a guy Krivsky is familiar with from their days in Minnesota. Guardado has been relatively consistent in his four full seasons since, averaging about a strikeout per inning with an ERA b/w 2.5 and 3, fewer than 9 H/9, and a consistently respectable WHIP.

Could Guardado's blow-up this year be portentious? Of course, that is why it took so little to get him, and his BB/9 has increased quite a bit in the first half of this season. Not lights out, but he has a track record that is better than almost anyone we currently run out there. Good to see us at least giving him a look...if he's terrible, you haven't lost anything because he is taking IP from other people who aren't performing. If he is good, he is part of the solution to the bullpen problem.

redsinraleigh
07-06-2006, 04:00 PM
Is Guardado's shoulder still attached by baling wire or did he get it fixed somewhere along the way?

redsfan30
07-06-2006, 04:01 PM
I'm VERY anxious to hear who gets sent out to make room for Eddie.

boognish
07-06-2006, 04:02 PM
Still attached by baling wire.

redsupport
07-06-2006, 04:02 PM
maybe this transaction will be like the reds great addition from seattle of roger salkeld

Tommyjohn25
07-06-2006, 04:02 PM
I'm VERY anxious to hear who gets sent out to make room for Eddie.

Ditto.

nmculbreth
07-06-2006, 04:03 PM
The way the bullpen has performed, any acquistion will be a welcome addition.

Hitters in the NL will be unfamilar with Guardado. Advantage goes to Guardado.

Fair point. :)

jimbo
07-06-2006, 04:04 PM
I'm VERY anxious to hear who gets sent out to make room for Eddie.

Me too. I've been sitting here trying to figure out who it will be. Shackleford seems obvious because of that problem he now has, but that leaves only one lefty in the pen, but Claussen may be filling a bullpen role within the near future. Weathers is the one that I keep going back to.

redsupport
07-06-2006, 04:06 PM
weathers must depart

Johnny Footstool
07-06-2006, 04:07 PM
Is Guardado's shoulder still attached by baling wire or did he get it fixed somewhere along the way?

Pipe cleaners and spit.

smith288
07-06-2006, 04:07 PM
Lack of Vitamins???
Is he an aquaintance of Mr Barry Bonds?

lollipopcurve
07-06-2006, 04:08 PM
Weathers is the one that I keep going back to.

To the DL?

I think they might ship out Standridge. Narron doesn't like guys who have trouble throwing strikes.

redsfan30
07-06-2006, 04:09 PM
Me too. I've been sitting here trying to figure out who it will be. Shackleford seems obvious because of that problem he now has, but that leaves only one lefty in the pen, but Claussen may be filling a bullpen role within the near future. Weathers is the one that I keep going back to.
Guardado's a lefty, and don't forget about Kent Mercker. If Shackelford is the one who goes, they'd still have two lefties.

reds44
07-06-2006, 04:09 PM
We didn't pay for his entire salary.


CINCINNATI … (AP) … Trying to bolster their struggling bullpen, the Cincinnati Reds acquired Eddie Guardado and cash from the Seattle Mariners on Thursday for minor league pitcher Travis Chick.

The Reds made the trade a day after blowing two leads in extra innings before losing 6-5 in the 13th at Milwaukee. After the game, Cincinnati reliever Brian Shackelford was arrested on suspicion of third-degree sexual assault.

Guardado is expected to join the Reds in Atlanta on Friday. Cincinnati began the day two games behind St. Louis in the NL Central.

The 35-year-old Guardado had 36 saves with a 2.72 ERA in 58 games for the Mariners last season.

But this year, the normally reliable reliever known as "Everyday Eddie'' struggled and was demoted from the closer's role in May after blowing three save chances. Guardado was 1-3 with five saves and a 5.48 ERA, and was serving as a setup man for J.J. Putz.

"Eddie had some struggles early on this season that allowed some of our young guys to run the back of the game and they got that job and haven't let go,'' general manager Bill Bavasi said in a release.

The 21-year-old Chick was 4-5 with a 4.61 ERA for Double-A Chattanooga. The Reds acquired the righty from the San Diego organization last July in a deal for third baseman Joe Randa.

CougarQuest
07-06-2006, 04:10 PM
Everyone but Coffey must depart the Reds bullpen
There, I've helped you out. :p:

flyer85
07-06-2006, 04:11 PM
I would say it is likely that Guardado will take over as the closer.

jimbo
07-06-2006, 04:11 PM
To the DL?

I think they might ship out Standridge. Narron doesn't like guys who have trouble throwing strikes.

I can't see Weathers going to the DL now. That should have been done two weeks ago. I think Weathers will be DFA.

reds44
07-06-2006, 04:14 PM
To the DL?

I think they might ship out Standridge. Narron doesn't like guys who have trouble throwing strikes.
Standridge needs to be on the team. He has the 'stuff' to get good hitters out despite what happend last night.

Danny Serafini
07-06-2006, 04:16 PM
I would say it is likely that Guardado will take over as the closer.

Apparently he was interviewed on a Seattle radio station and said he would be closing for the Reds.

reds44
07-06-2006, 04:17 PM
Apparently he was interviewed on a Seattle radio station and said he would be closing for the Reds.
Good. If for no less that Coffey can go back to being the set up man where he excelled.

Reds Fanatic
07-06-2006, 04:18 PM
I would say it is likely that Guardado will take over as the closer.
Based on his stats this year he may become the left handed Danny Graves.

redsfan30
07-06-2006, 04:19 PM
Is he signed beyond this season?

smith288
07-06-2006, 04:20 PM
Is he signed beyond this season?
Hope not.

flyer85
07-06-2006, 04:21 PM
Good. If for no less that Coffey can go back to being the set up man where he excelled.Honestly Coffey misses too few bats to be an effective closer and he seemed to pitch better when he was used more frequently. I still have hope for Belisle because he seems to have the best stuff of the relievers.

Mercker looked good with velocity back up because it gives him the separation to make his changeup much more effective. However, they still need another starter and reliever at a minimum.

Reds Fanatic
07-06-2006, 04:21 PM
Is he signed beyond this season?
Looks like he signed a 3 year deal with Seattle that would end this year so he would be gone after this year.

jimbo
07-06-2006, 04:21 PM
I wonder if the roster move will be made before tonight's game?

Reds Fanatic
07-06-2006, 04:22 PM
I wonder if the roster move will be made before tonight's game?
Tomorrow night. He is not going to be activated before tonight.

reds44
07-06-2006, 04:23 PM
If Eddie can just go back to being even a decent closer, it could be huge for us. It would allow for Coffey to be used in the 8th, and you can play matchups in the 7th.

It is rare for Bronson, Harang, and Elizardo not to pitch 6 innings.

jimbo
07-06-2006, 04:24 PM
However, they still need another starter and reliever at a minimum.

I agree. That 5th starter position needs to be filled with someone a little more adequate. Especially with Milton and Ramirez still being somewhat of a question mark. Would also like to see another good setup man that compliments Coffey.

Jr's Boy
07-06-2006, 04:37 PM
Good move by Krivsky, at least trying to do something.Lets hope he continues making moves during A.S. break.

Fil3232
07-06-2006, 04:38 PM
I hope a change of scenery / leagues will help but I'm not feeling very optimistic.

As for the change of leagues, change of scenery stuff:

4.1 IP, 10 H, 3 ER, 2 HR, 3 BB, 5 K (Stats against NL this year)

If you aint got it, you aint got it. Doesn't matter what league you're in. Bad is bad anywhere and Eddie Guardado has been awful this year.

Oozes desperation to me. Bag it Wayne, play for next year.

Cedric
07-06-2006, 04:43 PM
As for the change of leagues, change of scenery stuff:

4.1 IP, 10 H, 3 ER, 2 HR, 3 BB, 5 K (Stats against NL this year)

If you aint got it, you aint got it. Doesn't matter what league you're in. Bad is bad anywhere and Eddie Guardado has been awful this year.

Oozes desperation to me. Bag it Wayne, play for next year.

Shouldn't we be desperate? This league is horrendous and the division even more so.

Who cares about Travis Chick? He has nothing but a fastball and he projects as at best a slop major league reliever.

He was always hype.

registerthis
07-06-2006, 04:53 PM
Bag it Wayne, play for next year.

Easy to say, hard to explain to the fanbase.

crazybob60
07-06-2006, 04:55 PM
Ok, this move actually excites me a tad more than usual because if he returns to form (which has already been beaten to death here in this thread already) it will be another tremendous move and maybe the change of scenery is what is needed here!!! If he continues his form of this season well then Wayne has made a bad move by moving a young arm. But I doubt this because Everyday Eddie has been lights out for more times than not. I actually like this move the more and more I talk about it. He brought in both Phillips and Arroyo when they weren't the most popular moves and I bet this one will rank right up there with those when it is all said and done, finally brininging in some bullpen help!!! And also, Eddie comes from Seattle, who coached at Seattle for forever???? Let's give old Sweet Lou a call, get him here after this season!!!! I know we just signed Narron up, but still...a man can dream, eh????

jimbo
07-06-2006, 04:57 PM
As for the change of leagues, change of scenery stuff:

4.1 IP, 10 H, 3 ER, 2 HR, 3 BB, 5 K (Stats against NL this year)

If you aint got it, you aint got it. Doesn't matter what league you're in. Bad is bad anywhere and Eddie Guardado has been awful this year.

Oozes desperation to me. Bag it Wayne, play for next year.

That's a small sample size. There are plenty of examples of mediocre AL pitchers being very successful in the NL and good NL pitchers struggling the AL.

redsfan30
07-06-2006, 04:57 PM
It's been too long since I've seen Everyday Eddie pitch...what does he bring to the table?

What kind of velocity does he have?

Does he have good off speed stuff?

David Cubbedge
07-06-2006, 05:00 PM
From an M's fan:


Sorry guys, but Eddie sucks. His shoulder is a mess and he has lost all of his velocity, his stuff is non-exsistant. This year he is a 'here it is, please miss it' pitcher. The only guys he gets out is by luck. I don't care if Chick gets lost on his way to San Antonio and never throws a pitch, just having Eddie off our team is good enough for me.

membengal
07-06-2006, 05:00 PM
Are there other former Twins who are aging rapidly that we should go ahead and list here so we can guess at Cincy's next acquisition?

knuckler
07-06-2006, 05:05 PM
OK, I have a very important question.

Is his nickname "Everyday Eddie" or "Steady Eddie"?

And can "EdE" still be the 3B if "Eddie" is pitching? This is all so confusing.

Stats, shmats, let's just go for the all-nickname team! We already have that Keltavious kid and the Bastardo guy on the GCL team, a guy named "Noochie" at AA, and Travis "knock on" Wood!

blumj
07-06-2006, 05:06 PM
LaTroy Hawkins, but he's pitching reasonably well this season, and the Orioles are often difficult to deal with, so I don't know if it's a real possibility the way the pitching market is right now.

Sorry, this should have been a reply to membengal's question about other rapidly aging former Twins.

RichRed
07-06-2006, 05:19 PM
From an M's fan:

Sorry guys, but Eddie sucks. His shoulder is a mess and he has lost all of his velocity, his stuff is non-exsistant. This year he is a 'here it is, please miss it' pitcher. The only guys he gets out is by luck. I don't care if Chick gets lost on his way to San Antonio and never throws a pitch, just having Eddie off our team is good enough for me.

Yikes, sounds a little too much like a Reds fan talking about Mays, Milton, Williams, Hammond, Weathers, etc., etc., etc.

Fil3232
07-06-2006, 05:21 PM
Shouldn't we be desperate? This league is horrendous and the division even more so.

Who cares about Travis Chick? He has nothing but a fastball and he projects as at best a slop major league reliever.

He was always hype.

Wayne just traded a 22 yr. old with life on his fastball for a late-30's reliever with a bum shoulder. Are you kidding me? This move should never be made. I don't care if the NL (particularly the Central) is weak or not, this move doesn't help the Reds at all. It's a lateral move at best. As someone else has said, akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

I want to see Wayne bring up a Salmon, bring up a Shearn, bring up a Guevara, or a Medlock. See what these guys have, especially under the quasi-contender status the Reds enjoy. That way, when (if) the Reds ever become legit contenders they'll know what they have. I'm not saying those guys will be the answer, but it sure won't hurt anything to see.

Shaggy Sanchez
07-06-2006, 05:22 PM
I would have liked to have had Everyday Eddie pitching for us a few years ago but he just doesn't have anything left. I would love to see him get back to his past numbers but at his age and the amount of innings he has thrown I just don't see it happening. If these are the type of players that we are going to be getting to try and make a run I don't know to where we wouldn't be better off keeping our prospects and becoming sellers.

Fil3232
07-06-2006, 05:24 PM
That's a small sample size. There are plenty of examples of mediocre AL pitchers being very successful in the NL and good NL pitchers struggling the AL.

I would argue the overwhelming evidence would be that bad pitchers are bad anywhere.

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 05:24 PM
Easy to say, hard to explain to the fanbase.
They aren't coming out anyway

UPRedsFan
07-06-2006, 05:24 PM
So Shackleford is the obvious choice tomorrow when Eddie gets activated. But who goes after the all star break when Lizard returns? Depends on tonight's game I suspect and Mays' performance.

osuceltic
07-06-2006, 05:25 PM
What's not to like about this? You give up nothing and take a chance on Eddie bouncing back in the second half to something resembling all those numbers on the back of his baseball card. Have you been watching this Reds bullpen? If he flops, he'll fit right in and be gone at the end of the year.

This is the kind of move contenders make. Believe it or not, the Reds are contenders. But if they don't fix that bullpen, they won't be contending much longer.

And I can't believe anyone would say "bag it" and prepare for next year. This team is in the thick of things. Where would they be with an average bullpen? You have to go for it. That doesn't mean you give up the crown jewels (do we even have anyone who qualifies?) for a Band-Aid, but Travis Chick? Please.

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 05:26 PM
So Shackleford is the obvious choice tomorrow when Eddie gets activated. But who goes after the all star break when Lizard returns? Depends on tonight's game I suspect and Mays' performance.
Hopefully one of the catchers

biggergipper
07-06-2006, 05:27 PM
I am with the group consensus that he is not going to be much of an upgrade and that the change of leagues doesn't change the fact that his shoulder is kaput. He decided to rehab instead of go under the knife.

i think the biggest positive is that they are doing something. How many years have we ached for the front office to be pro-active and make moves when things go bad? It feels like we haven't done anything but sit on our hands since Bowden. I give them credit for shaking it up during the slump and sending a message that this type of slide is unacceptable.

so while I don't love the move specifically I love the message behind the move and think we all should.

Fil3232
07-06-2006, 05:43 PM
What's not to like about this? You give up nothing and take a chance on Eddie bouncing back in the second half to something resembling all those numbers on the back of his baseball card. Have you been watching this Reds bullpen? If he flops, he'll fit right in and be gone at the end of the year.

This is the kind of move contenders make. Believe it or not, the Reds are contenders. But if they don't fix that bullpen, they won't be contending much longer.

And I can't believe anyone would say "bag it" and prepare for next year. This team is in the thick of things. Where would they be with an average bullpen? You have to go for it. That doesn't mean you give up the crown jewels (do we even have anyone who qualifies?) for a Band-Aid, but Travis Chick? Please.

First off, contenders make moves that HELP their team, not moves that keep the status quo. I'm not sure why people are expecting miracles from Eddie (perhaps because of Bronson and Phillips), but I don't see it happening.

And as far as the Reds being contenders, well, that's a label affixed upon them by default. Someone has to be a contender in the NL this year. But if you expect this current team to remain contenders into late September than you won't have a very pleasant rest of the summer.

When I said bag it, that might have been the wrong word choice. I want to see Wayne explore what he has in the system (Medlock, Guevara, Salmon, Shearn, etc). If they lose games with them, fine, Wayne will know what he has to do this offseason to fix the bullpen. But try to bring in washed up, over-the-hill, possibly injured relievers and expect miracles to happen. That is a recipe that contenders avoid.

Johnny Footstool
07-06-2006, 05:46 PM
Who got the better deal?

Reds acquire Guardado and cash for 21 year old AA pitcher.

Cardinals acquire Weaver and cash for 24 year old AA outfielder.

Falls City Beer
07-06-2006, 05:47 PM
Very DanO-esque moves from Krivsky since the Pena/Arroyo deal; his reputation is slipping fast.

Since Phillips, it's been all downhill. He really needs to land someone who can help the team--for the now or the future.

2001MUgrad
07-06-2006, 05:52 PM
Great someone else that gives up a blue TON of hits.

And 36?? Is WK preparing for an "old timers" game with the bullpen?? I mean this team is pretty young at most postions. Griffey is really the only "older" player, but then you get to the bullpen and its like a freaking retirement community.

osuceltic
07-06-2006, 05:57 PM
Very DanO-esque moves from Krivsky since the Pena/Arroyo deal; his reputation is slipping fast.

Since Phillips, it's been all downhill. He really needs to land someone who can help the team--for the now or the future.
Is this sarcastic? You shrug off the Arroyo-Phillips deal, ignore Dave Ross, and say he hasn't done anything SINCE? Are you kidding me?

He's giving up nothing for a flyer on a guy with a very long, successful track record. This is a move for THIS YEAR. I don't care if it's because the league is weak. There is an opportunity to reach the playoffs this year. Anything can happen when you get there. You take a shot with someone like Eddie and you do it without giving up a damn thing.

It may not work at all, but what is there to lose? I love this move. Do you think anyone in baseball has a better line on Eddie than Krivsky? You think he didn't do a little homework on the guy and his health before making the deal? Let's give him some credit here.

Shaggy Sanchez
07-06-2006, 05:58 PM
Who got the better deal?

Reds acquire Guardado and cash for 21 year old AA pitcher.

Cardinals acquire Weaver and cash for 24 year old AA outfielder.

I am not crazy about Weaver, but I would much rather have him than Guardado. The Cards easily got the better deal.

lollipopcurve
07-06-2006, 06:00 PM
Who got the better deal?

Reds acquire Guardado and cash for 21 year old AA pitcher.

Cardinals acquire Weaver and cash for 24 year old AA outfielder.

Toss up. Only time will tell.

Falls City Beer
07-06-2006, 06:01 PM
Is this sarcastic? You shrug off the Arroyo-Phillips deal, ignore Dave Ross, and say he hasn't done anything SINCE? Are you kidding me?

He's giving up nothing for a flyer on a guy with a very long, successful track record. This is a move for THIS YEAR. I don't care if it's because the league is weak. There is an opportunity to reach the playoffs this year. Anything can happen when you get there. You take a shot with someone like Eddie and you do it without giving up a damn thing.

It may not work at all, but what is there to lose? I love this move. Do you think anyone in baseball has a better line on Eddie than Krivsky? You think he didn't do a little homework on the guy and his health before making the deal? Let's give him some credit here.

You haven't read my post in the way that it's written. You're reading what you want to see in it.

I said, "SINCE the Phillips trade," which implies that because the Arroyo trade occurred before the Phillips trade, I, at the very least, liked the Arroyo/Pena trade--and as it turns out, I loved that trade.

It's the stuff AFTER the Phillips acquisition that I question very seriously.

Danny Serafini
07-06-2006, 06:02 PM
Who got the better deal?

Reds acquire Guardado and cash for 21 year old AA pitcher.

Cardinals acquire Weaver and cash for 24 year old AA outfielder.

Looking at it cynically, Weaver has the opportunity to screw up more innings as a starter than Guardado has as a reliever, so the Reds came out ahead. Seriously though, I really dislike Weaver. I'm more comfortable picking up Guardado.

Falls City Beer
07-06-2006, 06:06 PM
Who got the better deal?

Reds acquire Guardado and cash for 21 year old AA pitcher.

Cardinals acquire Weaver and cash for 24 year old AA outfielder.


Would your rather step in a bucket of rabbit or dog excreta?

Your choice.

jimbo
07-06-2006, 06:06 PM
Very DanO-esque moves from Krivsky since the Pena/Arroyo deal; his reputation is slipping fast.

Since Phillips, it's been all downhill. He really needs to land someone who can help the team--for the now or the future.

And a lot of fans questioned the Phillips acquisition. Who on here actually thought Phillips would help the team at the time he came here? I bet there wasn't very many.

I'm holding up judgement until I actually see what Guardado does.

PTI (pti)
07-06-2006, 06:21 PM
You haven't read my post in the way that it's written. You're reading what you want to see in it.

I said, "SINCE the Phillips trade," which implies that because the Arroyo trade occurred before the Phillips trade, I, at the very least, liked the Arroyo/Pena trade--and as it turns out, I loved that trade.

It's the stuff AFTER the Phillips acquisition that I question very seriously.


I agree - ever since absolutely *stealing* 3 current and/or future All-Stars in Arroyo, Ross and Phillips, management hasn't really done much.

[/sarcasm]

Ltlabner
07-06-2006, 06:21 PM
Very DanO-esque moves from Krivsky since the Pena/Arroyo deal; his reputation is slipping fast.

Since Phillips, it's been all downhill. He really needs to land someone who can help the team--for the now or the future.

Oh lord...not this "every trade has to be for Roger Clemons or Albert Pjuols or else it's the worst trade in history" business again. It's a move to see if we can get something a little better than we have here already. A gamble yes, but what other options do we have considering what is available and what we are willing to give up?

Where are all these perfect trades you think we should be making?

Johnny Footstool
07-06-2006, 06:27 PM
Would your rather step in a bucket of rabbit or dog excreta?

Your choice.

Rabbit. They're herbivores, which means their excreta doesn't stink as badly.

But back to the topic...personally, I think Chick has way more upside than the OF the Cards gave up.

As for Weaver having the opportunity to screw up more innings, well, possibly, but as the closer, the innings Guardado screws up are going to be game-changers.

On the plus side, Eddie is cheaper than Weaver, and Eddie has still managed to strike out about a batter per inning. Still, his flyball tendencies make me think he'll give up a lot of walkoff home runs and earn the new nickname "Ethanol Eddie."

registerthis
07-06-2006, 06:27 PM
Where are all these perfect trades you think we should be making?

Well, that's just it. While this trade does NOTHING to excite me, and could just be another one of those never-worked-out deals, I'm not certain who, exactly, Krivsky is supposed to be targeting. Some here talk as if he's ignoring available all-stars to bring in tripe.

registerthis
07-06-2006, 06:28 PM
As for Weaver having the opportunity to screw up more innings, well, possibly, but as the closer, the innings Guardado screws up are going to be game-changers.

have they said EG will be the closer? I would htink they'd bring him in in a set-up role or something.

Falls City Beer
07-06-2006, 06:38 PM
Rabbit. They're herbivores, which means their excreta doesn't stink as badly.

But back to the topic...personally, I think Chick has way more upside than the OF the Cards gave up.

As for Weaver having the opportunity to screw up more innings, well, possibly, but as the closer, the innings Guardado screws up are going to be game-changers.

On the plus side, Eddie is cheaper than Weaver, and Eddie has still managed to strike out about a batter per inning. Still, his flyball tendencies make me think he'll give up a lot of walkoff home runs and earn the new nickname "Ethanol Eddie."

Two trades made for past incarnations of pitchers that aren't returning to their old avatars.

Falls City Beer
07-06-2006, 06:38 PM
have they said EG will be the closer? I would htink they'd bring him in in a set-up role or something.

Setting up for whom exactly?

MartyFan
07-06-2006, 06:42 PM
I just read the story on Fox Sports bout the trade...I fell out of my chair when I read this line from Special K....

"I wanted to do something that made sense, and this deal makes sense to us," Krivsky said. He expects Guardado to bring "veteran influence that will settle down the bullpen."

Is our BP really that young or is it really bad?

TOBTTReds
07-06-2006, 06:47 PM
EG has done pretty good since April posting a 3.77 ERA in his last 19 appearances. Maybe he is on the way to turning it around.

Cedric
07-06-2006, 06:49 PM
EG has done pretty good since April posting a 3.77 ERA in his last 19 appearances. Maybe he is on the way to turning it around.

Really who cares if it doesn't work? We got paid to give it a shot.

Travis Chick is not going to be a major league pitcher, people need to get over that dream.

registerthis
07-06-2006, 06:49 PM
Setting up for whom exactly?

Well, are they moving Coffey out of the closer's spot? I just haven't read anything about it, I wasn't taking this move under the impression that Narron was going to place EG in the closer's role.

registerthis
07-06-2006, 06:50 PM
EG has done pretty good since April posting a 3.77 ERA in his last 19 appearances. Maybe he is on the way to turning it around.

A ray of hope, perhaps.

He was pretty effective up until this year, but as we've seen time and again, the wheels can come off pretty darn fast.

Shaggy Sanchez
07-06-2006, 06:54 PM
I just read the story on Fox Sports bout the trade...I fell out of my chair when I read this line from Special K....

"I wanted to do something that made sense, and this deal makes sense to us," Krivsky said. He expects Guardado to bring "veteran influence that will settle down the bullpen."

Is our BP really that young or is it really bad?

I am so tired of hearing about veteran influence from Krivsky and Narron. They had a bullpen with plenty of veteran influence to start the season and even as late as yesterday and the bullpen still wasn't any good. I would really like to hear someone say something like "we feel his ability to get people out will help our bullpen stop blowing leads" it doesn't matter if he is 22 or 42 as long as he can get people out.

Handofdeath
07-06-2006, 06:59 PM
Very DanO-esque moves from Krivsky since the Pena/Arroyo deal; his reputation is slipping fast.

Since Phillips, it's been all downhill. He really needs to land someone who can help the team--for the now or the future.

The Reds have the worst bullpen in the league and they just traded for a guy who last year had 36 saves and who's had over 40 saves twice. You want better? Then be prepared to give up Harang and Dunn.

KoryMac5
07-06-2006, 07:00 PM
This sky is falling mentality that we get from time to time needs to go. Lets see what Eddie can do in a couple of appearences before we sacrafice him at the alter of bad pitching. I like the move low risk high gain.

Johnny Footstool
07-06-2006, 07:00 PM
I read a blurb somewhere that Guardado was told he would close. I can't find it now, though.

Handofdeath
07-06-2006, 07:08 PM
From Fox Sports

"He lives for the ninth inning. He loves the pressure of being in that situation, and we're going to give him that opportunity," Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky said.

crazybob60
07-06-2006, 07:10 PM
Let's just see how this trade pans out, I think I might back off of my statement about this being like the Arroyo and/or Phillips trade and let it stand on its own. And also comparing Wayne to DanO....well why must we do that? I know that we have some spare time and we like to compare things such as trades and previous ownership and GM's and players, but why not let us just see how this one pans out and who knows, we just might have ourselves a dandy of a deal, or maybe a rotten deal, who knows?

Redhook
07-06-2006, 07:11 PM
From Fox Sports

"He lives for the ninth inning. He loves the pressure of being in that situation, and we're going to give him that opportunity," Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky said.

At the very least, I'm hoping this will take the pressure off Coffey and allow him to return to the form he showed the first 2 months of the season. It would be a bonus is Guardado saved us some games because without Coffey pitching the 9th, a blown save has been a given.

flyer85
07-06-2006, 07:13 PM
Well, are they moving Coffey out of the closer's spot? I just haven't read anything about it, I wasn't taking this move under the impression that Narron was going to place EG in the closer's role.I would be surprised if EG does not immediately move into the closers role.

Handofdeath
07-06-2006, 07:21 PM
This sky is falling mentality that we get from time to time needs to go. Lets see what Eddie can do in a couple of appearences before we sacrafice him at the alter of bad pitching. I like the move low risk high gain.

I agree. Too many people think that MLB is some video game and that anybody can be a GM because they're all stupider than a box of rocks. Do you think that Krivsky is going to call up Brian Cashman and say "How about Rivera for Kearns and Claussen? No. These guys are professionals. They can't just lump a bunch of jabronies together and get a top flight pitcher. A lot of people on this board think that Adam Dunn is going to go to the Hall of Fame. You want Johan Santana or Dontrelle Willis? Guess who other teams are going to want? Krivsky is a pro and the Reds have done nothing in recent years. The Reds are on the cusp of possibly winning the division and I say quit whining and get off Krivsky's back.

CougarQuest
07-06-2006, 07:33 PM
Eddie is 35 and turns 36 on October 2nd.

How long has his shoulder been attached by bailing wire or duct tape? 2005? 2004? 2006? I'll take what I've seen in 2004 and 2005.

Currently he has a 2/1 ratio of K's to BB's.

Since 2000 until this year, he's had an ERA under 4.00, which for this bullpen is a wet dream.

His ERA for April was 8.31 in 8.2 IP.
His ERA for May was 2.25 in 8.0 IP.
His ERA for June was 4.50 in 6.0 IP.

In April, the Angels smacked him around pretty good. In fact, he had a 27.00 ERA during their visit. But in June and July, they didn't score a run on him.

harangatang
07-06-2006, 07:52 PM
I agree. Too many people think that MLB is some video game and that anybody can be a GM because they're all stupider than a box of rocks. Do you think that Krivsky is going to call up Brian Cashman and say "How about Rivera for Kearns and Claussen? No. These guys are professionals. They can't just lump a bunch of jabronies together and get a top flight pitcher. A lot of people on this board think that Adam Dunn is going to go to the Hall of Fame. You want Johan Santana or Dontrelle Willis? Guess who other teams are going to want? Krivsky is a pro and the Reds have done nothing in recent years. The Reds are on the cusp of possibly winning the division and I say quit whining and get off Krivsky's back.Remember when Choi was released from the Dodgers and people were absolutely livid that the Reds passed on him and insisted how bad Hatteberg was? It turns out Hatteberg is leading the Reds in OBP and Choi was hurt so therefore you never heard about it. My point is that everyone is going to have their opinions and everyone is wrong at some time. Some people are more outspoken than others but I suggest going back and looking at the archives at some of the threads on there. You might be surprised what you'd find.

cincyinco
07-06-2006, 08:14 PM
Looks like he signed a 3 year deal with Seattle that would end this year so he would be gone after this year.

Does that mean we could potentially receive a draft pick if he leaves after Free Agency? If so, fantastic.

Willy
07-06-2006, 08:31 PM
The Reds have the worst bullpen in the league and they just traded for a guy who last year had 36 saves and who's had over 40 saves twice. You want better? Then be prepared to give up Harang and Dunn.
Well said. Everyone wanted bullpen help, we get bullpen help now people don't like who we got. If you want a big name closer, you better be prepared to give up something better than Chick(Bailey)

harangatang
07-06-2006, 08:57 PM
Does that mean we could potentially receive a draft pick if he leaves after Free Agency? If so, fantastic.What would be fantastic is if he pitches well and settles into the NL and then we can resign him as a stopgap to the future.

Newman4
07-06-2006, 09:45 PM
Good Lord, not only up until this year has he been good, he been REALLY good. I'll take a chance on him.
SEASON TEAM G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO W L SV HLD BLSV ERA
2001 Min 67 0 0 0 66.2 47 27 26 5 23 67 7 1 12 14 2 3.51
2002 Min 68 0 0 0 67.2 53 22 22 9 18 70 1 3 45 0 6 2.93
2003 Min 66 0 0 0 65.1 50 22 21 7 14 60 3 5 41 0 4 2.89
2004 Sea 41 0 0 0 45.1 31 14 14 8 14 45 2 2 18 0 7 2.78
2005 Sea 58 0 0 0 56.1 52 23 17 7 15 48 2 3 36 0 5 2.72

SEASON TEAM W% #PIT TBF #P/PA #P/IP #P/GS K/9 K/BB AVG OBP SLG OPS
2001 Min .875 1049 270 3.89 15.7 -- 9.05 2.91 .197 .268 .307 .570
2002 Min .250 1045 270 3.87 15.4 -- 9.31 3.89 .215 .269 .368 .635
2003 Min .375 1067 260 4.10 16.3 -- 8.27 4.29 .207 .249 .340 .586
2004 Sea .500 686 176 3.90 15.1 -- 8.93 3.21 .194 .261 .363 .624
2005 Sea .400 931 238 3.91 16.5 -- 7.67 3.20 .239 .285 .394 .676

Krusty
07-06-2006, 09:55 PM
He had some injuries at the beginning of the season and lost his closer role to Putz. Before the start of this season, this guy was worth the money they were paying him.

He might end up being a flop. But I'm glad to see Krivsky and Castanelli doing everything they can to win. It is better than the previous regime which would have been sitting on their hands while playing out the season.

reds77
07-06-2006, 10:16 PM
But I'm glad to see Krivsky and Castanelli doing everything they can to win. It is better than the previous regime which would have been sitting on their hands while playing out the season.

Couldn't of said it better myself. It is great to at least see some attempts at improving the team.

redsupport
07-06-2006, 10:19 PM
joe mays should be absquatulated rapidly

Redhook
07-06-2006, 11:09 PM
joe mays should be absquatulated rapidly

I don't know what this word means, but I like it. Alot.

RisingReds
07-07-2006, 05:02 AM
You haven't read my post in the way that it's written. You're reading what you want to see in it.

I said, "SINCE the Phillips trade," which implies that because the Arroyo trade occurred before the Phillips trade, I, at the very least, liked the Arroyo/Pena trade--and as it turns out, I loved that trade.

It's the stuff AFTER the Phillips acquisition that I question very seriously.

what move exactly are you talking about? just the guardado deal? i personally like that deal, and i think the guy has earned the right to have a little faith in him after adding the likes of phillips, ross, and arroyo, i mean how much do you want in one season? what does it hurt to bring in guardado? what was travis chick doing? guardado is a veteran that had an era in the 2's just last season, maybe a change of scenery will help him as much as it did phillips, just seems like a win-win deal to me, because they didn't lose much if he doesn't pan out.

KronoRed
07-07-2006, 05:25 AM
I don't know what this word means, but I like it. Alot.
Absquatulated

To depart in a hurry; abscond: “Your horse has absquatulated!” (Robert M. Bird).
To die.
To argue.


:devil:

Newman4
07-07-2006, 10:52 AM
Absquatulate v. ... syn. To designate such player for assignment. ref. Womack, Tony Hammond, Chris White, Rick

Wheelhouse
07-07-2006, 11:08 AM
You haven't read my post in the way that it's written. You're reading what you want to see in it.

I said, "SINCE the Phillips trade," which implies that because the Arroyo trade occurred before the Phillips trade, I, at the very least, liked the Arroyo/Pena trade--and as it turns out, I loved that trade.

It's the stuff AFTER the Phillips acquisition that I question very seriously.

Like what? Taking a flyer on Esteban Yan who throws 97 and has a 3.6 era over 14 innings since joining the Reds? DFA of Womack? Trade of Dave Williams, an ML pitcher who can't break 85 for a quality minor league arm? Juan Castro who's been superb with the glove since he's been back, and had a major role in the Reds biggest comback of the year with a HR? I guess you just hate the Joe Mays move. Well, remember, there's not a lot out there to be had--20 of the 30 ML teams are still in the race and teams are very reluctant to part with anything at this point. He was also dealt an awful hand with what he was given to work with this spring. Krivsky is doing an excellent job before and after Phillips, and his latest moves yesterday seem resourceful and smart given the circumstances.

Danny Serafini
07-07-2006, 12:20 PM
Well, he isn't going to cost much.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports...-5226770c.html

Seattle also agreed to pay Cincinnati about $2.5 million of the prorated $3.3 million remaining on Guardado’s 2006 contract, according to The Associated Press. Guardado is in the final year of a three-year, $17 million deal.

Gallen5862
07-07-2006, 04:26 PM
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/content/printer_friendly/mlb/y2006/m07/d06/c1543269.jsp

Guardado could complete Reds' puzzle
07/06/2006 8:52 PM ET
By Jim Molony

If this keeps up, other general managers will stop taking Wayne Krivsky's phone calls.
Since taking the job as Cincinnati's GM in February, Krivsky has been like a frenzied bargain-hunter trying to scour as many garage sales in one weekend as he can, and his accelerated search for gems has been paying immediate dividends for the Reds.

On Thursday, Krivsky added what may prove to be the piece that keeps the Reds in the playoff picture: Eddie Guardado.

You could argue that Guardado is just a 35-year-old reliever who lost his closer's job in Seattle to J.J. Putz earlier this season. The two-time All-Star has been in a setup role since then, and is 1-3 with a 5.48 ERA -- not exactly the kind of numbers on a resume that jump out at a GM looking to turn around a struggling bullpen. But the Reds desperately needed help in the back end of the bullpen, especially a lefty, and Krivsky knows Guardado well from their days together in Minnesota.

Guardado is a safe bet, and if Krivsky's track record thus far is any indicator of how this deal will pan out, look for Guardado to return to his steady form in a hurry, because Krivsky's acquisitions have had a way of turning to gold.

To wit:

• All-Star pitcher Bronson Arroyo (9-5 with a 2.79 ERA since being obtained in the Wily Mo Pena deal)

• First baseman Scott Hatteberg (.302, eight homers, 26 RBIs since signing a one-year free-agent contract)

• Catcher David Ross (.307, 12 homers, 28 RBIs in 43 games since Krivsky got him from San Diego for pitcher Bobby Basham)

• Second baseman Brandon Phillips (.322, seven homers, 44 RBIs in 76 games since Krivsky got him from Cleveland for a player to be named)

Now comes Guardado, at the negligible cost of 22-year-old Minor League pitcher Travis Chick, to help shore up a bullpen that entered play on Thursday ranked last in the National League with a 5.28 ERA and had blown three of its last four save opportunities.

Guardado led the American League with 45 saves in 2002, and in 2003 was second in the AL with 41 saves. Last season, he went 2-3 with a 2.72 ERA and 36 saves in 58 relief appearances with Seattle.

The guy is not a setup man any more than David Weathers is a closer, even though the Reds have had the veteran right-hander in that role. With Guardado on the roster, Weathers can stick to what he does best -- pitch one late inning and team with hard-throwing Todd Coffey to give the Reds a better bridge between the starters and the man who was known in Minnesota as Everyday Eddie.

"I know him well," Krivsky said. "We've got a really good relationship. I feel he's got a lot left. We feel that he can go into the closer's role, and we're excited to have him."

Guardado, a free agent at season's end, won't take a big bite out of the budget, either. The Reds are on the hook for a portion of the $3.12 million Guardado is owed on a 2006 contract worth $6.25 million.

Counting the $1.4 million that went with Dave Williams when Krivsky sent the left-hander to the Mets for Minor Leaguer Robert Manuel, that should leave the Cincinnati payroll at around $62 million, which means the Reds will have some leeway to spend between now and July 31 if the opportunity arises.

Guardado's arrival comes just hours after the team that Krivsky's Reds are chasing, St. Louis, picked up much-needed pitching help by trading for Angels right-hander Jeff Weaver.

The Cardinals have been desperately looking for pitching. St. Louis went 9-16 in June and had the worst team ERA in baseball for the month.

From June 6 to July 6, the Cardinals' record was 10-15. Cincinnati went 10-17 during that same span, and neither team had reason to believe things were going to change unless changes were made. Houston had already upgraded by signing Roger Clemens, and it was clear that the Cardinals and Reds could not afford to stand pat.

Like Guardado, Weaver is an attractive veteran who has seen better days, but he can still get batters out when he's on. Weaver is 3-10 with a 6.29 ERA in 16 starts, but he won't break the bank, either, as the Angels are paying a portion of the $4.2 million owed on his $8.3 million 2006 contract.

Weaver's arm is sound, he has clear ability, he's only 29 years old, and getting with St. Louis manager Tony La Russa and pitching coach Dave Duncan has done wonders for other veteran pitchers in similar circumstances upon their arrival in the River City.

Besides, Weaver wouldn't have to be lights out to make a difference for the Cardinals: He joins a rotation with an ERA of 8.29 in the last 15 games. Weaver has worked 200 or more innings each of the last two seasons. The cost for him was power-hitting Minor League outfielder Terry Evans, an intriguing prospect but certainly not a deal-breaker.

St. Louis GM Walt Jocketty, like Krivsky, deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Five years ago, Jocketty made a similar deal, acquiring a 34-year-old right-hander with a .500 record and an ugly ERA from San Diego for outfielder Ray Lankford.

The right-hander was Woody Williams, and he went 7-1 with 2.28 ERA for the Cardinals that year.


This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

blumj
07-07-2006, 06:04 PM
Is it a bad sign that Steve Phillips really loves this trade for the Reds?

Gallen5862
07-08-2006, 12:10 AM
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/news/print261891.html
Reds Hope Guardado Can Help Bullpen
By Jim Callis
July 6, 2006


For the second time in two days, a National League Central contender tried to shore up its pitching by adding a struggling veteran. After the Cardinals acquired Jeff Weaver for their rotation on Wednesday, the Reds countered Thursday by picking up Eddie Guardado from the Mariners for Double-A righthander Travis Chick. Seattle also included roughly $2.5 million to defray part of Guardado's remaining salary.

A 35-year-old lefthander who has made two all-star teams, Guardado lost his closer's role with the Mariners this year but will finish games for the Reds. Cincinnati had been using Todd Coffey, but he hasn't been nearly as effective as he had been as a setup man. Guardado's fastball, slider and splitter are average pitches at best, and he relies mostly on heart. That hasn't worked for him much in 2006, as he has gone 1-3, 5.48 in 28 games while converting just five of eight save opportunities. He has a 22-11 K-BB ratio in 23 innings, but opponents are batting .309 with eight homers against him. Guardado is making $6.25 million this year in the final season of a three-year, $14.25 million contract, after which he'll become a free agent. He has a career record of 41-55, 4.31 with 175 saves in 766 major league games.

Chick is no stranger to being traded after being included in deals for Ismael Valdez in 2004 and Joe Randa in 2005. A 14th-round pick out of a Texas high school in 2002, Chick has a low-90s fastball and a hard slider that's a solid-average pitch when it's on. His changeup and control need work, however, and he has leveled off since reaching Double-A in 2005. This season, he has gone 4-5, 4.61 in 16 starts at Chattanooga. He has a 77-36 K-BB ratio, .249 opponent average and 12 homers allowed in 84 innings.

<< Trade Central 2006

realistic
07-08-2006, 11:35 AM
I cant believe the whiners. All year you cry wanting bullpen. You get it, a lefty at that , and still want to complain about his "numbers" through 3 months of this season after hes been an elite closer for a few years. paying 800k for half a year of this guy in a new league(major importance) is ridiculously good value. The negativity on this board is why i quit reading/posting. Some of you guys wouldnt be happy if the Reds went 161-1 in 2007.

Face it, Trevor Hoffman is not available and Dennis Eckersley has retired, who did you guys expect? Consider the options / price / quality. I also doubt the fact that Wayne made this happen after the Cards got Weaver was a coincidence. I like to see that, im excited about what may happen at the deadline.

Great deal Wayne!

realistic
07-08-2006, 11:56 AM
His numbers his year are based on all of 24 IP's, not a great sampling. He allowed 8 ER in first 6 2/3 IP in his first 7 appearances. Since then 17 1/3 IP 6 ER. So he came out from spring training a bit rusty. Theres a lot more to baseball than numbers.

Barbarossa
07-08-2006, 12:36 PM
Another slant on the trade from the Austin American-Statesman:

Perfection or else

One day after Seattle traded deposed closer Eddie Guardado to Cincinnati for a Double-A pitcher, Detroit closer Todd Jones had this outlook on his position: "In baseball, closing is the only thing where 100 percent success is the measuring stick."

Johnny Footstool
07-08-2006, 02:47 PM
His numbers his year are based on all of 24 IP's, not a great sampling. He allowed 8 ER in first 6 2/3 IP in his first 7 appearances. Since then 17 1/3 IP 6 ER. So he came out from spring training a bit rusty. Theres a lot more to baseball than numbers.

Yep. There's frayed rotator cuffs, flyball tendencies in HR-friendly parks, and the process of aging.

I'm rooting for Eddie, but the odds aren't really in his favor.

JoeOliver
07-08-2006, 04:06 PM
Hey, he might be terrible, but he can't be any worse than what we're running out there now. If he helps us wins any games (already did last night), this trade is good.

Every game counts. Anyone remember '99? We gave up nothing for a chance (maybe remote) at something.

I can't believe the number of people on this site (mainly in the "old red guard") that are already saying Krivsky is no good and his trades are questionable. One guy even posted that we should have got more than just Bronson for Wily Mo!

Some of the people here amaze me. Chill out, give the guy a chance (he's made a couple "decent" moves. I think some people need to take a break from this site and get a clue.

(PS - we're still only 2 games out of first and were supposed to suck this year, in case anyone missed it while they were calling for Krivsky and Cast's heads.

Johnny Footstool
07-08-2006, 05:22 PM
I can't believe the number of people on this site (mainly in the "old red guard") that are already saying Krivsky is no good and his trades are questionable. One guy even posted that we should have got more than just Bronson for Wily Mo!

At the time of the deal, the Reds were interested Red Sox AAA closer Jermaine Van Buren. At the time, he seemed like a fairly easy throw-in with the Arroyo-Pena deal, but Krivsky didn't press the issue.

Van Buren has done quite well for Pawtucket this season and would have gone a long way towards shoring up the Reds shaky bullpen. I was disappointed Krivsky didn't get him.

That's not to say that the Reds didn't win the Arroyo trade by a huge margin -- they did. But a few of us thought at the time of the deal that the Reds could/should have gotten more.

Ltlabner
07-08-2006, 05:45 PM
At the time, he seemed like a fairly easy throw-in with the Arroyo-Pena deal, but Krivsky didn't press the issue.

Seemed like an easy throw in based on what? Your speculation or some inside knowledge?

realistic
07-08-2006, 06:13 PM
as for Wily Mo - a lot of people here overvalue the strikeout hitters..oops! i mean HR hitters. Im sure Red Sox fans thought Homer Bailey would have been a fair throw in also.

CougarQuest
07-08-2006, 10:41 PM
http://www.realgmbaseball.com/src_feature_article/53/20060707/grading_the_deal_guardado_added_to_reds_bullpen/

"Grading The Deal: Guardado Added To Reds’ Bullpen
Authored by Douglas Benton - 7th July, 2006 - 1:39 pm"

"The Seattle Mariners decided Thursday that it was time to end the Eddie Guardado experiment in the “Great Northwest,” thus sending Guardado to the Cincinnati Reds for minor league pitcher Travis Chick. The Mariners will pay part of the remaining amount of Guardado’s deal, which was a 2006 option worth a total of $6.25 million at the beginning of the season.

Guardado had been successful in his first two seasons in Seattle with sub-3 ERA both years, but this year Guardado saw his ERA balloon to 5.48, as he was removed as the team’s closer and saw his chances diminish overall. Guardado has only appeared in 28 games this season.

Chick, a 21-year old right-hander, was 4-5 with a 4.61 ERA at Double-A Chattanooga.

Breaking Down the Deal:

For Cincinnati, it is closer number three on the year as David Weathers and Todd Coffey have blown a combined 8 saves this year for a team that is in the thick of the wild card and division races. Guardado provides a proven player for this role who has saved games before on playoff teams in Minnesota. Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky knows Guardado well from his time when they were both in Minnesota and it now allows the Reds to move Weathers and Coffey into more familiar roles, creating a deeper bullpen.

On the Seattle side of things, Guardado had to leave sometime before the July 31st trade deadline because he was becoming a distraction for the Mariners. They already have a lot of potential for bullpen arms and are in no shape as an organization to have such an expensive set-up guy when they aren’t in serious condition. They were also able to pick up Chick, who was considered possible trade bait for Cincinnati this summer.

My Grade:

Cincinnati Reds: {A-} The Reds pick up some much needed bullpen help without having to give up a top prospect or bat in return. The move will strengthen the Reds in the late innings, and with that offense, a playoff berth looks even better after this move.

Seattle Mariners: {C+} The Mariners were somewhat forced in this move because everyone knew they wanted to trade him at some point. They were able to pick up a quality arm in the process and trade him out of the American League, but a little patience could have produced a better deal."

Johnny Footstool
07-09-2006, 02:36 AM
Seemed like an easy throw in based on what? Your speculation or some inside knowledge?

Based on the fact that he was/is a 26 year old pitcher stuck in AAA ball, and that the Red Sox bullpen was projected to be very solid, so he wasn't going to be in their plans at the time of the trade.

He wasn't exactly a commodity at the time, but he would have filled a huge need for the Reds. I expected (and still expect) Krivsky to be able to acquire players like that.


They already have a lot of potential for bullpen arms and are in no shape as an organization to have such an expensive set-up guy when they aren’t in serious condition. They were also able to pick up Chick, who was considered possible trade bait for Cincinnati this summer.

I assume the author meant "serious contention."

To which I reply, 3 games out of first isn't "serious contention?" The Mariners have a better shot at a division title than the Reds do.

realistic
07-09-2006, 02:59 AM
Based on that logic i guess other teams should view Denofia as simply a throw in since hes turning 26 next week and "stuck in AAA" ? Tell that to the guys here who want to use him as the centerpiece of trades for future all-stars.

By the way, you previously mentioned Guardados age as a negative thing. Who cares? We are not building a team around the guy, we are trying to make the playoffs - this year.

Blondini
07-14-2006, 11:01 PM
Any of you still remember Bobby Ayala, the young pitcher Lou Piniella asked for when he took the manager's job at Seattle? Ayala was good for a while, then he kinda morphed into a pitcher who nibbled around the edges and got hit hard when he finally threw a strike (happens to a lot of pitchers in Kingdome-type places).

We used to shudder whenever Lou and his pitching coach de jour called Bobby into a game, 'cause Bobby's pitching was pretty wobbly most of the time. Sorry to say, that's the feeling most Mariners fans had this past few months with Eddie Guardado.

At any rate, he's back where he wants to be, closing, so that ought to help. But he sure puts enough hitters on base (or all 4 bases) to make you sweat bullets if it's a close game.

Good luck. I hope Eddie DOES help the Reds, 'cause I'd kinda like to see Junior actually see action in the postseason again.... :)

goreds2
07-14-2006, 11:17 PM
A very lovely 9th inning tonight. :beerme: :thumbup:

(Save #2 for Eddie)