PDA

View Full Version : We Will Take the Next 3



reds44
07-07-2006, 01:24 AM
Mark it down. Quote me, sticky it, go place your bets in Vegas, bodog, whatever.


The Reds will take the next 3 from the Braves. Period.

TheBigLebowski
07-07-2006, 01:29 AM
Put me down on this action. I'm even willing to wager rep points.

Think this whole thing is about to turn around.

This team has not quit, although many of it's fans have.

To battle back from 5 runs down in the 9th against a VERY hot team after what we've dealt with in the last 2 weeks is nothing short of exemplary.

I'll also wager rep points that Guardado is going to end up being a VERY good acquisition for this team.

If my confidence ends up landing me back at RedsLive, so be it.

reds44
07-07-2006, 01:55 AM
We aren't alone.....


http://www.redreporter.com/


How can you not love this team?

I mean that seriously. I know I get sarcastic at times, but this isn't one of them.

We just watched a team do something amazing. Coming off of five losses, they watched a horrible starting pitcher give up four runs in the first inning. How many other teams would have quit at that point? Mailed it in for the rest of the day? Quite a few in my opinion.

But not our Reds. They clawed back, as they have so often in the last week. There's no quit in this team. That's a hell of an overdone cliche, but it absolutely applies to the 2006 Cincinnati Reds.

Things are bad right now, no doubt about it. I'm as upset as anyone. But this is a team that will get to the postseason, with just a little help from WayneK and a better bullpen. He took a step towards that today picking up Eddie Guardado, and I don't think he's done.

After all this, after the terrible last week, after the terrible past month, after all of it ... the Reds are only 2.5 games out of first. And I believe the Reds have the offense and the starting pitching to make up those 2.5 games. They're still in this.

I have a good feeling about the rest of this Atlanta series, but we'll see. I think some of you should give the Reds a shot. Don't quit on them yet, because they're sure as hell not quitting on us.


Amen to that!

wheels
07-07-2006, 01:57 AM
Everyone just relax.

It's either gonna get better, or funnier.

Either way, it's awesome.

KronoRed
07-07-2006, 02:59 AM
This didn't work for sava

reds44
07-07-2006, 03:04 AM
This didn't work for sava
Yes it did. We got swept like he said we would. :evil:

WMR
07-07-2006, 03:22 AM
Mark it down. Quote me, sticky it, go place your bets in Vegas, bodog, whatever.


The Reds will take the next 3 from the Braves. Period.

http://www.pistonsdownloads.com/Wallpapers/rasheedbw1280x768.jpg

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper410/stills/955mwyz2.jpg

WVRedsFan
07-07-2006, 03:29 AM
Mark it down. Quote me, sticky it, go place your bets in Vegas, bodog, whatever.


The Reds will take the next 3 from the Braves. Period.


Dreamer.

I predict 45-44 at the break. Coffey continues to really blow in close games, and the offense is in a collective slump.

There are two kinds of people, I'm told. Some spend their time rearranging the deck chairs on the Titantic and other get in the lifeboats. Unless our new closer performs miracles (and I hope he does), we had better head for the lifeboats.

BTW, what is the club's record since Narron got his extension?

Just asking...:mooner:

GAC
07-07-2006, 07:49 AM
Mark it down. Quote me, sticky it, go place your bets in Vegas, bodog, whatever.


The Reds will take the next 3 from the Braves. Period.

Not that I'm not an optimist (because I am).... but I am also a realist.... I'd stay out of Vegas Mr Rose. :lol:

Jpup
07-07-2006, 08:03 AM
Eric Milton is pitching tonight.

captainmorgan07
07-07-2006, 01:12 PM
milton will get us a win tonite harang and arroyo will get us to the 9th were everday eddie will save 3 straight games will be right on track

zombie-a-go-go
07-07-2006, 02:31 PM
Milton will get us a win tonite; Harang and Arroyo will get us to the 9th where "Everday Eddie" will save 3 straight games... we'll be right on track.

One can hope, anyway.

Moosie52
07-07-2006, 03:17 PM
Yes it did. We got swept like he said we would. :evil:

Yeah, but it's a lot easier to be swept than to win 3 in a row. I just wish they'd create their own misery in 9 innings instead of 13.

Roy Tucker
07-07-2006, 03:17 PM
I thought this team was on verge of collapse before they swept the Cards and the Astros on the road a few weeks back. They rallied from there to make things interesting the last 3 weeks.

They seem on the verge of collapse again now. The offense certainly hasn't given up. But the starters have backslid (to their norm) and the pen is doing its darndest to shoot a curare-tipped dart into the team's neck.

The NL Central is ripe for picking. The Cards, Reds, Brewers, and Astros are all trying to get there. Winning the next 3 would be a real statement. 2-1 would be OK. Anything under that and this team is tipping towards the abyss.

M2
07-07-2006, 03:42 PM
I thought this team was on verge of collapse before they swept the Cards and the Astros on the road a few weeks back. They rallied from there to make things interesting the last 3 weeks.

They seem on the verge of collapse again now. The offense certainly hasn't given up. But the starters have backslid (to their norm) and the pen is doing its darndest to shoot a curare-tipped dart into the team's neck.

The NL Central is ripe for picking. The Cards, Reds, Brewers, and Astros are all trying to get there. Winning the next 3 would be a real statement. 2-1 would be OK. Anything under that and this team is tipping towards the abyss.

That's a perfect synopsis of the situation.

Usually when you see division with so many middling teams (and this applies to the NL and AL West as well) the winner turns out to be the club that figures out how to beat up on the rest clubs in the division. When a club does that, and when you've got four teams in the mix invariably one does, it not only elevates itself, but it simultaneously eliminates the competition.

The Reds and Astros have been the two strongest clubs vs. the division so far this season, but the Brewers are on a 10-2 roll in the NL Central with three home games against the Cubs leading into the break. Here's the breakdown of how many each contender has against the other contenders and the two pushovers (Cubs and Pirates) after the break:

Reds
Contenders - 22, Pushovers - 16

Brewers
Contenders - 26, Pushovers - 14

Cardinals
Contenders - 24, Pushovers - 16

Astros
Contenders - 26, Pushovers - 16

KronoRed
07-07-2006, 04:18 PM
Yes it did. We got swept like he said we would. :evil:
Yes but it was an attempt to change luck, this is as well..CURSED THREAD!! ;)

Marc D
07-07-2006, 04:22 PM
That's a perfect synopsis of the situation.

Usually when you see division with so many middling teams (and this applies to the NL and AL West as well) the winner turns out to be the club that figures out how to beat up on the rest clubs in the division. When a club does that, and when you've got four teams in the mix invariably one does, it not only elevates itself, but it simultaneously eliminates the competition.

The Reds and Astros have been the two strongest clubs vs. the division so far this season, but the Brewers are on a 10-2 roll in the NL Central with three home games against the Cubs leading into the break. Here's the breakdown of how many each contender has against the other contenders and the two pushovers (Cubs and Pirates) after the break:

Reds
Contenders - 22, Pushovers - 16

Brewers
Contenders - 26, Pushovers - 14

Cardinals
Contenders - 24, Pushovers - 16

Astros
Contenders - 26, Pushovers - 16

A big problem is that the pushover Cubs seem to have our number this year.

I remain unconvinced this team can win anything, but then again the rest of the division is equally inept, so who really knows? As long as nothing of real value is traded away in return for short term junk to help win this putrid division I'm fine. My biggest fear remains a repeat of '99 and BJ Ryan.

M2
07-07-2006, 04:53 PM
My biggest fear remains a repeat of '99 and BJ Ryan.

I never minded dealing B.J. Ryan. Guzman pitched well for the Reds down the stretch and it wasn't until 2003 when Ryan would have been of any real help. He'd have just been a good reliever some awful teams over the past three seasons if the Reds had kept him. I'll take the 96 wins in '99 and the one-game playoff everytime.

Marc D
07-07-2006, 05:15 PM
I never minded dealing B.J. Ryan. Guzman pitched well for the Reds down the stretch and it wasn't until 2003 when Ryan would have been of any real help. He'd have just been a good reliever some awful teams over the past three seasons if the Reds had kept him. I'll take the 96 wins in '99 and the one-game playoff everytime.

Maybe I was misunderstanding your posts in another thread but I thought you were as adamantly against accepting mediocrity as I am. Personally, I want to keep all the BJ Ryans of the world no matter how far away they are. Do that for a few years and next thing you know you have a team stacked with good young talent and consistent winning will follow. By winning I mean the type of teams that have legit WS hopes, not winning by being the least sucky team in a miserable division sense of the word.

In short I dream of a day when the Reds farm system consistently produces great young talent. Every season is one in which winning the pennant is the obvious(and realistic) goal and anything short of a deep playoff run or WS appearance is a disapointment. The type of team who then does trade a BJ Ryan of the future for one player to help down the stretch because they are truely only a player or two away from being a legit WS contender.


With the full clarity of hindsight, the one game playoff of '99 means nothing and not having a BJ Ryan is worse than having one no matter how bad the rest of the team is. I would absolutely puke if a Wood or Cueto were traded this year so we could maybe squeak out 88-90 wins and see where that landed us. We all know this team is not a legit WS contender, so don't give up anyone that could make us one in a couple of years for some short term "help". The cycle simply must be broken at some point.

Caveat Emperor
07-07-2006, 05:36 PM
Maybe I was misunderstanding your posts in another thread but I thought you were as adamantly against accepting mediocrity as I am. Personally, I want to keep all the BJ Ryans of the world no matter how far away they are. Do that for a few years and next thing you know you have a team stacked with good young talent and consistent winning will follow. By winning I mean the type of teams that have legit WS hopes, not winning by being the least sucky team in a miserable division sense of the word.

In short I dream of a day when the Reds farm system consistently produces great young talent. Every season is one in which winning the pennant is the obvious(and realistic) goal and anything short of a deep playoff run or WS appearance is a disapointment. The type of team who then does trade a BJ Ryan of the future for one player to help down the stretch because they are truely only a player or two away from being a legit WS contender.


With the full clarity of hindsight, the one game playoff of '99 means nothing and not having a BJ Ryan is worse than having one no matter how bad the rest of the team is. I would absolutely puke if a Wood or Cueto were traded this year so we could maybe squeak out 88-90 wins and see where that landed us. We all know this team is not a legit WS contender, so don't give up anyone that could make us one in a couple of years for some short term "help". The cycle simply must be broken at some point.

On the other hand, there's the school of thought that says that success in baseball hangs on such a small thread of good fortune, good players playing up to expectation, down years for key opponents, etc. that you really have to go and grab for the brass ring when the opportunity presents itself.

Por ejemplo, does anyone want to lay moeny on Arroyo repeating his steller first half next year? Granted, I'd be beside myself with glee if, when its all said and done, Arroyo turns out to be a 3.50 ERA pitcher -- but will the team look back and think that it wasted a stellar overperformance from him by not doing everything to compete this year?

You can't count on anything for the next year -- the '99 Reds are living proof of that. They made a post-season run and then regressed the following season as club deficeincies caught up with them, players stopped overperforming, injuries happened and other teams played better around them. As tempting as it is to say "play for tomorrow" (and as often as I think that's the right course of action) -- there's at least a logic to the side that says the future is right now.

M2
07-07-2006, 05:46 PM
Maybe I was misunderstanding your posts in another thread but I thought you were as adamantly against accepting mediocrity as I am. Personally, I want to keep all the BJ Ryans of the world no matter how far away they are. Do that for a few years and next thing you know you have a team stacked with good young talent and consistent winning will follow. By winning I mean the type of teams that have legit WS hopes, not winning by being the least sucky team in a miserable division sense of the word.

In short I dream of a day when the Reds farm system consistently produces great young talent. Every season is one in which winning the pennant is the obvious(and realistic) goal and anything short of a deep playoff run or WS appearance is a disapointment. The type of team who then does trade a BJ Ryan of the future for one player to help down the stretch because they are truely only a player or two away from being a legit WS contender.


With the full clarity of hindsight, the one game playoff of '99 means nothing and not having a BJ Ryan is worse than having one no matter how bad the rest of the team is. I would absolutely puke if a Wood or Cueto were traded this year so we could maybe squeak out 88-90 wins and see where that landed us. We all know this team is not a legit WS contender, so don't give up anyone that could make us one in a couple of years for some short term "help". The cycle simply must be broken at some point.

I'm with you on having a strong farm system, but IMO a consistent problem with the Reds over the past decade is they've held onto too many kids who amounted to nothing. If the club had traded Gookie Dawkins, Ty Howington and Ricardo Aramboles while the iron was hot, they'd have had some major league talent to show for it.

As for trading Ryan, there was nothing mediocre about what Guzman gave the Reds in '99. They traded for a starter to help carry the team down the stretch and he went 6-3 with a 3.03 ERA. The Reds were a legit World Series contender that season. They had the best offense in team history, the best defense in baseball, a top-notch bullpen and they finished with a pretty decent starting rotation as well. Unfortunately, four other NL teams were legit World Series contenders that season as well and the Reds wound up with Steve Parris facing off against Al Leiter in the playoff game.

Your hindsight differs from mine. Looking back on it, I'm extremely thankful for '99 (and to a lesser extent '00), otherwise the last decade of being a Reds fan would have been sheer misery. It's the fumes of '99, '95, '90, the late '80s and the BRM that bolster me when modern team starts to get me down. Having three years of B.J. Ryan backing the 2003-2005 is what would be doing nothing for me. I get to keep the excitement of August and September '99 forever. Remove Guzman and keep trotting the reprehensible Brett Tomko out to the mound and those months would have been spent watching the rest of the league leaders pull away all the while knowing the Reds didn't have the horses to keep pace.

And I'd be willing to deal any kid in the current farm system for the right major league return this season as well. Want Homer Bailey for Dontrelle Willis? If the call were mine to make, Homer would be on the next plane to Florida. Draw up what you think will be the Reds team in three to five years and populate it heavily with kids currently on the farm and you'll almost invariably be creating a list of never-wases and still-wannabes for when that future rolls around. Now that doesn't mean I'd deal every kid on the farm, in fact I think the Reds should be going after AAA arms and unestablished major league youngsters before the trading deadline, but I'd trade a stud prospect for a bona fide major league starter and I'd certainly trade a B.J. Ryan equivalent for an arm who could keep this club in the playoff hunt right up to the end of the season.

Falls City Beer
07-07-2006, 05:48 PM
Who in this division can match the Brewers, dollar for dollar, prospect for prospect?

I think Houston will put up something of a fight, but the Brew Crew is ready to hulk out in a big way.

The Reds are decimated unless they pick up two starters and another reliever. And for the first time this season I'm realizing that's just too much to get.

The good thing is that Krivsky is trying to compete with negligible trading chips, which is admirable. He's saving the big dogs for the offseason, I assume.

He keeps the fans happy by "trying," but not giving up the real chips unless a slam-bang deal presents itself.

I suppose that's really the only way to go.

Marc D
07-07-2006, 05:48 PM
On the other hand, there's the school of thought that says that success in baseball hangs on such a small thread of good fortune, good players playing up to expectation, down years for key opponents, etc. that you really have to go and grab for the brass ring when the opportunity presents itself.

Por ejemplo, does anyone want to lay moeny on Arroyo repeating his steller first half next year? Granted, I'd be beside myself with glee if, when its all said and done, Arroyo turns out to be a 3.50 ERA pitcher -- but will the team look back and think that it wasted a stellar overperformance from him by not doing everything to compete this year?

You can't count on anything for the next year -- the '99 Reds are living proof of that. They made a post-season run and then regressed the following season as club deficeincies caught up with them, players stopped overperforming, injuries happened and other teams played better around them. As tempting as it is to say "play for tomorrow" (and as often as I think that's the right course of action) -- there's at least a logic to the side that says the future is right now.


I'd go with the "future is now" thing if we were a player or two away. This team is 7-8 pitchers away from actually being good. Also by winning now I mean a legit shot at winning the WS. Does anyone really think we're a player or two away from competing with the White Sox, Tigers or BoSox? A one and done playoff appearance just because the NL Central had to send someone means squat to me.

Build me an organization thats a legit WS threat year in and year out, not one that hopes to get lucky enough to make a playoff appearance once every 6-7 years. I know they only won the WS once but the Atlanta dynasty for the past 15 years or so is my example of what a successful franchise should be like.

reds44
07-07-2006, 11:39 PM
1 down, 2 to go

IslandRed
07-08-2006, 12:04 AM
I'm with you on having a strong farm system, but IMO a consistent problem with the Reds over the past decade is they've held onto too many kids who amounted to nothing. If the club had traded Gookie Dawkins, Ty Howington and Ricardo Aramboles while the iron was hot, they'd have had some major league talent to show for it.

We've talked about it before, but it bears repeating that one of the things that allowed the Braves to do what they did as long as they did is maximizing the return on the farm system. Schuerholz and his crew had a knack for identifying the true crown jewels in a system of hyped prospects, and a willingness to use the rest as what they were -- trading chips. So they'd end up with homegrown Braves surrounded by help brought in via trade, and suffered relatively few cases of getting no value at all from a prospect.

Marc D
07-08-2006, 12:32 AM
We've talked about it before, but it bears repeating that one of the things that allowed the Braves to do what they did as long as they did is maximizing the return on the farm system. Schuerholz and his crew had a knack for identifying the true crown jewels in a system of hyped prospects, and a willingness to use the rest as what they were -- trading chips. So they'd end up with homegrown Braves surrounded by help brought in via trade, and suffered relatively few cases of getting no value at all from a prospect.

And that obviously is the exact way I want the Reds to operate. Have a farm system that produces enough talent to keep a very good team in place and allows you to pick up that one guy for a stretch drive when you need it.

I think a lot of the bad taste in Reds fans mouth when they hear trade for prospects is the poor talent evaluation and development that has gone on here for years.

Everything is predicated on the organization being able to identify, obtain and develop young talent better than the next team. For the first time in a very long time I am starting to have faith in the braintrust to know this and to pull it off.

CrackerJack
07-08-2006, 01:20 AM
Posts in this thread seem to agree with the way Krivsky is operating this year on the whole, regardless of variables people disagree on.

Bowden gambled too much, O'Brien was too timid, Krivsky is the moderate.

I did not think Guzman was worth BJ Ryan - to this day. The real crime there is that Guzman took a hike shortly after being acquired. The Reds were a fringe contender who were in no position to give up what they did for Guzman, considering how shallow their farm was. Always hated that trade.

I would hope Krivsky wouldn't deal a Cueto for another Guzman type at the end of his rope this season.

The Chick trade was perfectly acceptable to me, Chick was quickly entering the downward slope of trade value. It's possible Guardado could simply get healthy again and pitch here for a few years. But that is purely speculative hope at this point. All I know is that he didn't give up a run tonight.

Tommyjohn25
07-08-2006, 01:27 PM
The Chick trade was perfectly acceptable to me, Chick was quickly entering the downward slope of trade value. It's possible Guardado could simply get healthy again and pitch here for a few years. But that is purely speculative hope at this point. All I know is that he didn't give up a run tonight.

Good call, and I got that warm and fuzzy feeling last night when I saw him pitch. Just a gut feeling is all, but it was a darn good one.

KronoRed
07-09-2006, 12:04 AM
Ok...I blame this thread ;)

redsrule2500
07-09-2006, 12:28 AM
Huh...so can we still quote you? :D

reds44
07-09-2006, 12:30 AM
Huh...so can we still quote you? :D
I blame narron.

:evil:
;)

redsrule2500
07-09-2006, 01:19 AM
Why do you call that Bloody Thursday? (sig)

Just wondering