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WVRedsFan
07-07-2006, 02:24 AM
It's getting so frustrating that I didn't even listen to the game tonight (complicated by the fact that I only had XM and the Atlanta broadcast--the only negative about that service). TV was blacked out for some reason after the 5th inning--the call to DTV was a bit ole "Duh." Anyway, i began to play with statistics and found...

During the losing streak, our hottest hitter was Scott Hatteberg, but look at the rest:

Lopez - .111 - 2/18
Phillips - .222 - 4/18
Griffey - .269
Dunn - .296
Kearns - .240
Hatteberg - .529 !
EdE - .200 (1/5 tonight)
Ross - .300
Freel - .250
LaRue - .222
Aurilia - .286
Castro - .273

Lopez and Phillips are in big slumps, Griffey is below his usual, Kearns is slumping while Aurilia and Dunn are hitting the ball well. Inconsistency at it's best.

Oh, the pitching. Look at these ERA's:

Mays - 12.75
Standridge - 6.00
Beslile - 9.00
Coffey - 16.36
Weathers - 6.00
Shackelford - 8.37
Yan - 0.00
Mercker - 2.25

The starters:

35.1 IP 48H 29 ER 7.45 ERA

Take Mays out of it and you get:

25 IP 28 H 15 ER 5.40 ERA

IOW's Mays is killing us. DFA him!

The bullpen?

20 IP 26H 12ER 5.40 ERA

Take Coffey out of the equation and the ERA is 4.21.

Not good, but it's not rocket science to see that Mays and Coffey are killing us.

Food for thought.

Jpup
07-07-2006, 03:18 AM
The game was on TBS. I thought everyone had TBS.

reds44
07-07-2006, 03:32 AM
Tiny sample size.

Also no matter how many 'individual players' are slumping offensively, the offense as a 'team' is not.

6 games, 31 runs
5.1 RPG

We have also scored 7 runs 3 times during the streak, and don't have a W to show.

It also seems like when we hit well, we haven't pitched well. We got a QS from Milton, but we only scored 3 runs and we got a QS from EZ, but only managed 3 runs in 9 innings (5 total).

So in our quality starts we have scored 8 runs in 2 games (4 RPG), and in non- quality starts we have scored 23 runs in 4 games (5.75 RPG).

In 5 of the 6 losses the tieing and/or winning run has come to the plate in the final inning.

Really we have had some bad luck, mixed in with some bad bullpen.

GAC
07-07-2006, 06:46 AM
It's getting so frustrating that I didn't even listen to the game tonight (complicated by the fact that I only had XM and the Atlanta broadcast--the only negative about that service). TV was blacked out for some reason after the 5th inning--the call to DTV was a bit ole "Duh." Anyway, i began to play with statistics and found...

During the losing streak, our hottest hitter was Scott Hatteberg, but look at the rest:

Lopez - .111 - 2/18
Phillips - .222 - 4/18
Griffey - .269
Dunn - .296
Kearns - .240
Hatteberg - .529 !
EdE - .200 (1/5 tonight)
Ross - .300
Freel - .250
LaRue - .222
Aurilia - .286
Castro - .273

Lopez and Phillips are in big slumps, Griffey is below his usual, Kearns is slumping while Aurilia and Dunn are hitting the ball well. Inconsistency at it's best.

Let me play devil's advocate.... :evil:

Does BA really matter? ;)

We came back and put up 7 runs last night (a victory most any other time).... and what, once again, failed us?

Fix the pitching and ya got a winner IMO.

This offense cannot be expected to overcome the amount of runs allowed. No offense really can.

Red in Chicago
07-07-2006, 07:35 AM
Let me play devil's advocate.... :evil:

Does BA really matter? ;)

We came back and put up 7 runs last night (a victory most any other time).... and what, once again, failed us?

Fix the pitching and ya got a winner IMO.

This offense cannot be expected to overcome the amount of runs allowed. No offense really can.

batting average only matters when we're not talking about adam dunn:devil:

max venable
07-07-2006, 09:04 AM
Anybody figured out what exactly is the matter with Coffey? Dude is killin' us right now.

RANDY IN INDY
07-07-2006, 09:07 AM
Team Clark says he is tipping his pitches.

Johnny Footstool
07-07-2006, 09:41 AM
Team Clark says he is tipping his pitches.

Someone should tell Coffeybro and have him relay the message.

max venable
07-07-2006, 10:50 AM
Team Clark says he is tipping his pitches.
I just read that somewhere else, too.

WVRedsFan
07-07-2006, 11:01 AM
The game was on TBS. I thought everyone had TBS.

TBS and a few other channels are in a disagreement with our cable company, so we're out of luck on that--the cable company changed hands as of Monday. The dish was non-operational last night due to the installation of the HD system I'm installing.

Either way you had to listen to the pukey Atlanta announcers. Yuck.

vaticanplum
07-07-2006, 11:01 AM
The game was on TBS. I thought everyone had TBS.

Everyone with cable. It's not a national network station, only in the Atlanta area.

WVRedsFan
07-07-2006, 11:04 AM
Tiny sample size.

Also no matter how many 'individual players' are slumping offensively, the offense as a 'team' is not.

6 games, 31 runs
5.1 RPG

We have also scored 7 runs 3 times during the streak, and don't have a W to show.

It also seems like when we hit well, we haven't pitched well. We got a QS from Milton, but we only scored 3 runs and we got a QS from EZ, but only managed 3 runs in 9 innings (5 total).

So in our quality starts we have scored 8 runs in 2 games (4 RPG), and in non- quality starts we have scored 23 runs in 4 games (5.75 RPG).

In 5 of the 6 losses the tieing and/or winning run has come to the plate in the final inning.

Really we have had some bad luck, mixed in with some bad bullpen.

Obviously. I was only trying to point out that the bullpen is not the only problem right now. In addition to not being able to hold a lead (bullpen), we just aren't doing much offensively either. The guys who have helped carry this team thus far (Griffey, Phillips, Lopez..pick one) aren't. That's all.

And it was meant to be a small sample size--the losing streak.

westofyou
07-07-2006, 11:12 AM
4 out of the last 6 losses the Reds scored 5 runs or more, how is offense the blamed for that? 6.95 era and 1.83 whip in July.

I know who I'm pointing the finger at.

The war of attrition has started and it will hurt the Reds in the pen where they are both weakest and oldest.

Chip R
07-07-2006, 11:13 AM
4 out of the last 6 losses the Reds scored 5 runs or more, how is offense the blamed for that? 6.95 era and 1.83 whip in July.

I know who I'm pointing the finger at.

The war of attrition has started and it will hurt the Reds in the pen where they are both weakest and oldest.

Hopefully those that follow the team on a regular basis won't point to the offense as the problem like last year.

WVRedsFan
07-07-2006, 11:24 AM
Hopefully those that follow the team on a regular basis won't point to the offense as the problem like last year.

Well...at times, it is a problem, but I agree. This offense is capable of scoring gobs of runs. Right now, it we could just go back to our April-May rate of allowing less than five runs, we'd be OK.

I was also trying to point out that the starting pitching, which everyone had ballyhooed, was failing us too. And Mays should be sent packing and I'm not so sure about Coffey.

Ain't it a shame when everything goes haywire at once???

redsfan30
07-07-2006, 11:32 AM
I think the bullpen's stuggles are hurting the entire team. The starters are going out there thinking they have to be perfect, so they don't have to turn it over to the bullpen. The offense is going out and trying to do too much because they think they have to score 10 runs a game to avoid a bullpen blowup.

This bullpen is not only dragging this team down in the standings, it's dragging down the morale of the clubhouse.

Things are just going to go further downhill from here unless Wayne Krivsky finds more help, and does it real quick.

redsfan4445
07-07-2006, 11:36 AM
Someone should tell Coffeybro and have him relay the message.


i sent what TC said in a message to Coffeybro just a few minutes ago

Jpup
07-07-2006, 12:23 PM
Everyone with cable. It's not a national network station, only in the Atlanta area.

I thought everyone had cable or Dish/DirecTV.

Rojo
07-07-2006, 12:26 PM
I thought everyone had cable or Dish/DirecTV.

Some of us don't even have TV's.

RedsManRick
07-07-2006, 12:31 PM
What exactly is Todd doing to tip his pitches? I'm always curious with observations like this whether it's a "fact" that has been observed or merely a guess based on the way he's been hit lately. Given TC's background, I'm going to guess he's really seeing something -- just hoping he'll elaborate.

Jpup
07-07-2006, 12:32 PM
What exactly is Todd doing to tip his pitches? I'm always curious with observations like this whether it's a "fact" that has been observed or merely a guess based on the way he's been hit lately. Given TC's background, I'm going to guess he's really seeing something -- just hoping he'll elaborate.

he did, in the Live thread.

Jpup
07-07-2006, 12:32 PM
Some of us don't even have TV's.

:eek:

That's gotta suck. :D

KronoRed
07-07-2006, 03:20 PM
Some of us don't even have TV's.
Radios? or just teletypes?

:evil:

WVRedsFan
07-07-2006, 04:28 PM
I think the bullpen's stuggles are hurting the entire team. The starters are going out there thinking they have to be perfect, so they don't have to turn it over to the bullpen. The offense is going out and trying to do too much because they think they have to score 10 runs a game to avoid a bullpen blowup.

This bullpen is not only dragging this team down in the standings, it's dragging down the morale of the clubhouse.

Things are just going to go further downhill from here unless Wayne Krivsky finds more help, and does it real quick.

I think this nails the issue. You have to remember that when we were having success, Arroyo and Harang were pitching lights out, Elizardo was throwing well, and Coffey looked like the second coming of Rob Dibble. Also, Phillips was unconscious at the plate along with Dunn, Griffey, and others. The team is in a collective slump and runs are at a premium right now. Branson and all the starters know this, so they try to get too fine, knowing that they have to almost shut out the opposition to win. The result is just the opposite.

Good post, redsfan30!

RedsManRick
07-07-2006, 04:35 PM
he did, in the Live thread.

I saw that a bit too late... and gave him his appropriate props. Everybody should give it a read if they haven't.

reds44
07-07-2006, 04:36 PM
I think this nails the issue. You have to remember that when we were having success, Arroyo and Harang were pitching lights out, Elizardo was throwing well, and Coffey looked like the second coming of Rob Dibble. Also, Phillips was unconscious at the plate along with Dunn, Griffey, and others. The team is in a collective slump and runs are at a premium right now. Branson and all the starters know this, so they try to get too fine, knowing that they have to almost shut out the opposition to win. The result is just the opposite.

Good post, redsfan30!
In the last 10 games we have scored 7 or more runs 6 times and 61 total (6.1 RPG), but we are only 3-7 in that stretch. The offense hasn't been strugging.

max venable
07-07-2006, 08:34 PM
In the last 10 games we have scored 7 or more runs 6 times and 61 total (6.1 RPG), but we are only 3-7 in that stretch. The offense hasn't been strugging.

Nice to see you've got the Guardado meter running under your username. I'll be watching it closely.