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View Full Version : Does Bronson Arroyo = Jack Armstrong?



WVRedsFan
07-11-2006, 07:34 PM
Remember Jack Armstrong? Long ago (1990), he had a fantastic first half only to hit the dumpsters after the break to finish 12-9 and really never pitch well again, ending up with one more season in which he went 7-13. He played out his career with Cleveland, Florida and Texas and retired in 1994 by finishing up his career at 40-65.

What about Bronson Arroyo? Great start and then the hits came in bunches. I hope not, but it's very similar to what I remember Jack Armstrong did years ago.

I hope not.

KittyDuran
07-11-2006, 07:50 PM
Didn't Jack also dye his hair blonde? :confused: If Bronson mentions anything about going on a tuna boat, the Reds are in trouble... [IIRC]! ;)

Sham
07-11-2006, 08:03 PM
Not unless he throws his arm out in the all star game.

KoryMac5
07-11-2006, 08:08 PM
He did look tired his last couple of starts, lets hope the pen and Narron can give him a breather.

Joseph
07-11-2006, 08:18 PM
I think Arroyo has just hit that period of the year a lot of pitchers experience in that its a tired/dead arm time. A few days off should do wonders to revamp his season.

blumj
07-11-2006, 08:36 PM
I just saw Bronson on a Boston show, he knows what he has to do to get that 10th win: it's cornrow time! And don't say I didn't warn you.

But, seriously, 130 IP already? I don't think he's really built for that kind of pace. He needs a break, and they should probably be a little more careful with him if they want him to still be pitching well late in the season.

red-in-la
07-11-2006, 08:44 PM
Arroyo has always been a streaky pitcher.....I made note of this over a month ago when there were questions about whether or not the Reds needed to make a deal to stay competitive.

He certainly isn't anything like Armstrong.....but he runs hot and cold for sure.

Falls City Beer
07-11-2006, 08:44 PM
I just saw Bronson on a Boston show, he knows what he has to do to get that 10th win: it's cornrow time! And don't say I didn't warn you.

But, seriously, 130 IP already? I don't think he's really built for that kind of pace. He needs a break, and they should probably be a little more careful with him if they want him to still be pitching well late in the season.

Narron's run both Harang and Arroyo through the woodchipper.

He's an idiot.

Hubba
07-11-2006, 09:28 PM
Narron's run both Harang and Arroyo through the woodchipper.

He's an idiot. What kind of job do you have?

redsupport
07-11-2006, 09:40 PM
who wouldnt be depleted with this pyromaniacal squad, he should have 13-14 wins by now if chris hammond, a "pitcher" who tops out at 70mph and various other scraps of dross had not tamponaded his victiories

Falls City Beer
07-11-2006, 09:57 PM
What kind of job do you have?

Forget it.

VI_RedsFan
07-11-2006, 10:17 PM
Narron's run both Harang and Arroyo through the woodchipper.

He's an idiot.

What do you propose we do then?

Should we have Milton or Mays start more often or should we let our bullpen pitch more innings in Harang and Arroyo's starts?

If you want to have one of those two scenarios happen rather than having Harang and Bronson pitch a bunch of innings, then I seriously question if you really want this team to win...

MWM
07-11-2006, 10:39 PM
The difference is that before 1990, Armstrong had started a total of 21 games in the majors totaling about 100 innings. Bronson has 91 starts and 383 innings. He's proven he can pitch in the majors successfully, Armstrong hadn't. You might see a drop off, but it's not likely you'll see an Armstrong-like collapse.

Heath
07-11-2006, 10:40 PM
to bring the thread back to it's regular-scheduled program. The short answer to the original question is "no".

Falls City Beer
07-11-2006, 10:42 PM
What do you propose we do then?

Should we have Milton or Mays start more often or should we let our bullpen pitch more innings in Harang and Arroyo's starts?

If you want to have one of those two scenarios happen rather than having Harang and Bronson pitch a bunch of innings, then I seriously question if you really want this team to win...

Take out all starters after 110 pitches or so. It's just good policy. What the bullpen isn't capable of completing isn't Bronson's or Aaron's problem; it's the FO's.

KoryMac5
07-11-2006, 11:12 PM
What do you propose we do then?

Should we have Milton or Mays start more often or should we let our bullpen pitch more innings in Harang and Arroyo's starts?

If you want to have one of those two scenarios happen rather than having Harang and Bronson pitch a bunch of innings, then I seriously question if you really want this team to win...

You never want to take a guy out when he is cruising along especially with our bullpen. But if Harang and Arroyo keep their pitch counts at 130 just because we don't have faith in the bullpen then I start to question our long term chances of winning in the future. See Wood and Prior for examples.

Willy
07-11-2006, 11:52 PM
That is a great question and if i could give some rep point you would have them.

Unassisted
07-12-2006, 12:10 AM
Beware of the self-fulfilling prophecy. :scared:

dougdirt
07-12-2006, 01:15 AM
No. He is however going to end up with a worse ERA than Aaron Harang by the end of the season. Both should be under 3.75 though.

oregonred
07-12-2006, 01:46 AM
Negative

NastyBoy
07-12-2006, 02:44 AM
Refresh my memory... but I thought Jack Armstrong started the 1990 all star game and ended up not even starting a post season game.

KronoRed
07-12-2006, 03:25 AM
No. He is however going to end up with a worse ERA than Aaron Harang by the end of the season. Both should be under 3.75 though.
Considering the rest of the rotation and the pen that's a scary thought

Redhook
07-12-2006, 09:42 AM
Refresh my memory... but I thought Jack Armstrong started the 1990 all star game and ended up not even starting a post season game.

You are correct. He didn't start a game, but he did pitch 3 innings of relief. And did well at it.


Postseason Pitching


Year Round Tm Opp WLser G GS ERA W-L SV CG SHO IP H ER BB SO
+------------------+-----+--+--+------+-----+--+--+---+-----+---+---+---+---+
1990 WS CIN OAK W 1 0 0.00 0-0 0 0 0 3.0 1 0 0 3
+------------------+-----+--+--+------+-----+--+--+---+-----+---+---+---+---+

Heath
07-12-2006, 09:56 AM
You are correct. He didn't start a game, but he did pitch 3 innings of relief. And did well at it.


Postseason Pitching


Year Round Tm Opp WLser G GS ERA W-L SV CG SHO IP H ER BB SO
+------------------+-----+--+--+------+-----+--+--+---+-----+---+---+---+---+
1990 WS CIN OAK W 1 0 0.00 0-0 0 0 0 3.0 1 0 0 3
+------------------+-----+--+--+------+-----+--+--+---+-----+---+---+---+---+



Pitched in game 2 I believe.

dabvu2498
07-12-2006, 10:01 AM
Pitched in game 2 I believe.
Innings 5-7 of the 10 inning "Billy Bates-Joe Oliver game."

westofyou
07-12-2006, 11:06 AM
Jack Armstrong = Ken Hunt

redsupport
07-12-2006, 11:40 AM
Nice analogy, Ken HUnt masterful first half of 1961, for that excellent, perspicacious reference, you get an extra star from Orlando Pena and Jose Pena