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Matt700wlw
07-13-2006, 04:35 PM
I'm on it...

redsfan30
07-13-2006, 04:37 PM
Say what????

Matt700wlw
07-13-2006, 04:37 PM
That's the word...I know nothing more at this point

CTA513
07-13-2006, 04:37 PM
I'm on it...

If this is true, I hope its for pitching.

OnBaseMachine
07-13-2006, 04:38 PM
No way?!?

westofyou
07-13-2006, 04:38 PM
This is not your daddy's Reds team.

johngalt
07-13-2006, 04:38 PM
Along with Wagner for...

Bill Bray
Gary Majewski
Royce Clayton
Brendan Harris
Daryl Thompson

Ltlabner
07-13-2006, 04:38 PM
Just announced on 700WLW

Kearns, Lopez and Ryan Wagner to Washington for either 2 or three pitchers and a couple of infielders. I didn't catch all the names.

redsfan30
07-13-2006, 04:39 PM
To Washington???

lollipopcurve
07-13-2006, 04:39 PM
Whoa. Other board says Washington............

Puffy
07-13-2006, 04:39 PM
There goes any cahnce I'll get any work done this afternoon!

redsfan30
07-13-2006, 04:39 PM
Quickly...someone give stats for those involved

Highlifeman21
07-13-2006, 04:40 PM
Royce freakin Clayton?!

Dunno anything about the rest of those guys....

OnBaseMachine
07-13-2006, 04:40 PM
Along with Wagner for...

Bill Bray
Gary Majewski
Royce Clayton
Brendan Harris
Daryl Thompson

Wow. What a horrible trade.

No John Patterson or Jon Rauch? Terrible.

Puffy
07-13-2006, 04:40 PM
Noooooooooooooooooooo - I just realized this means Castro is gonna get more playing time!!

Please, say it ain't so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reds44
07-13-2006, 04:41 PM
Holy crap!!!!

westofyou
07-13-2006, 04:41 PM
Wow. What a horrible trade.

No John Patterson or Jon Rauch? Terrible.
John Patterson has a forearm strain is taking cortison shots he might be out for the rest of the year.

Puffy
07-13-2006, 04:42 PM
Along with Wagner for...

Bill Bray
Gary Majewski
Royce Clayton
Brendan Harris
Daryl Thompson

This is a joke right?

Heath
07-13-2006, 04:42 PM
Noooooooooooooooooooo - I just realized this means Castro is gonna get more playing time!!

Please, say it ain't so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Meet Brandon Phillips - your new shortstop.

I'm ok with Gary Majewski.

Hey reds44 - this means RA's going to 2b for a while - - EdE's fine.

Chris Denorfia - welcome to the show.

and Royce is a Salary Dump - shedding $$ for next year.

RBA
07-13-2006, 04:42 PM
Hey it's July 13th, not April 1st. But you got me anyways. very funny. ha, ha, ha.

Reds Fanatic
07-13-2006, 04:43 PM
If this trade is real I feel sick.

reds44
07-13-2006, 04:43 PM
Meet Brandon Phillips - your new shortstop.

I'm ok with Gary Majewski.

Hey reds44 - this means RA's going to 2b for a while - - EdE's fine.

Chris Denorfia - welcome to the show.

and Royce is a Salary Dump - shedding $$ for next year.
Thank God.

Are they talking about it on WLW or should I put on homer?

westofyou
07-13-2006, 04:44 PM
Harris is 2nd baseman, he could push Phillips to SS and Clayon and Castro would be in the mix.

Sabo Fan
07-13-2006, 04:44 PM
Nope, this seems all too real, just confirmed on ESPN news. Early reaction: Krivsky has lost his freaking mind.

Matt700wlw
07-13-2006, 04:44 PM
Denorfia and Bergolla are called up.

OnBaseMachine
07-13-2006, 04:44 PM
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

This organization is a JOKE!

reds44
07-13-2006, 04:44 PM
Can we get some stats on these guys?

RBA
07-13-2006, 04:45 PM
Who's the better GM? Bowden or ours? ;)

ramp101
07-13-2006, 04:45 PM
oy vey.... this is an awful deal for the Reds, even though I have a man-crush on Bill Bray

Ltlabner
07-13-2006, 04:45 PM
This organization is a JOKE!

Ok, we can all go home now. The trade is declaired a non-starter in the first 30 seconds of it being announced.

OnBaseMachine
07-13-2006, 04:45 PM
When I first saw this thread I thought that Dontrelle HAD to be coming back our way. Either him or someone who is actually good, instead the Reds got CRAP.

I hate this organization.

kyred14
07-13-2006, 04:45 PM
My God, we just got scerwed by Jim Bowden.

johngalt
07-13-2006, 04:46 PM
Knowing the value Kearns and Lopez have, this is a horrible trade no matter what happens with all these guys. The Reds could have gotten a TON more for those two.

Caveat Emperor
07-13-2006, 04:46 PM
Wow...Royce Clayton...

I mean...there's Juan Castro bad at the plate, and then there's Royce Clayton bad at the plate...

Instantly dislike boiling. I need to look at some more numbers.

Frigging figures this would happen when I'm trying to study for the bar.

TRF
07-13-2006, 04:46 PM
wow. A trade with Washington that includes 2 starters AND a young reliever and the Reds DON'T get Jon Rauch.

ouch.

RedsManRick
07-13-2006, 04:46 PM
Did bowden just beat us in a trade? What the freaking heck is happening!? This looks ridiculous.

Majewski is a solid pickup. The other arms look average at best and Clayton and Harris are utter crap.

Reds4Life
07-13-2006, 04:47 PM
That's all we could get for that package of players?

Ehhhhhhhhhh, this ain't good.

OnBaseMachine
07-13-2006, 04:48 PM
Jim Bowden just bent Krivsky over.

Puffy
07-13-2006, 04:48 PM
Lopez should have mega-appeal by himself. Package him with Kearns and I was physhed at the potential return we could get.

Then we get this crap.

CTA513
07-13-2006, 04:48 PM
I dont know why they would want Clayton when they have Castro, Aurilia and some guys in the minors who could help out.

NJReds
07-13-2006, 04:49 PM
I guess we're tearing the whole thing apart and starting over again.

Can I return my tickets and cancel my trip to Cincinnati next week. What a joke.

Gainesville Red
07-13-2006, 04:49 PM
That looks ugly to me. Did we just get fleeced by Bowden? How does that happen?

vaticanplum
07-13-2006, 04:49 PM
Do we know absolutely that those are the players?

ahhhhhhh.... I'm hoping that someone forgot to type the "Soriano" part.

OnBaseMachine
07-13-2006, 04:49 PM
I don't think even DanO could have made a worst trade than this one. The Reds traded two productive young players for total CRAP.

Johnny Footstool
07-13-2006, 04:49 PM
It's on Reds.com now. No joke.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20060713&content_id=1554997&vkey=pr_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin


Print © 2006 MLB Advanced Media, L.P. All rights reserved.

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Reds get Majewski, Bray, Clayton, Harris, Thompson from Nationals
07/13/2006 3:35 PM ET
MLB.com

CINCINNATI -- The Cincinnati Reds today acquired from the Washington Nationals RHP Gary Majewski, LHP Bill Bray, SS Royce Clayton, IF Brendan Harris and RHP Daryl Thompson in exchange for OF Austin Kearns, SS Felipe Lopez and RHP Ryan Wagner.
Majewski, Clayton and Bray are expected to report to Cincinnati in time for tomorrow's 7:10 p.m. game against the Colorado Rockies. Corresponding roster moves will be announced when they arrive. Harris will report to Class AAA Louisville and Thompson to Sarasota in the Gulf Coast League.

To fill the roster spots of Kearns and Lopez for tonight's game, the Reds have recalled from Louisville OF Chris Denorfia and IF William Bergolla.

Majewski, 26, participated in the World Baseball Classic as a member of Team USA. He has posted a 3.27 ERA with 2 saves in 141 career relief appearances for the Montreal Expos and Nationals. Last season for Washington, Majewski recorded a 2.93 ERA while leading the pitching staff with 79 appearances, a franchise record for a rookie. During the first half of this season he went 3-2 with a 3.58 ERA and begins the second half ranked T5th among all Major League pitchers with 46 games pitched.

Bray, 23, was selected by the Expos with the 13th pick overall of the first round of the 2004 first-year player draft and entered this season already ranked as one of the best prospects in Washington's minor league system. He made his Major League debut this season and has posted a 3.91 ERA in 19 relief appearances. Also this season Bray went 4-1 with a 3.98 ERA and 5 saves in 21 relief appearances at Class AAA New Orleans.

Clayton, a National League All-Star in 1997, entered the 2006 season ranked second among active shortstops in games, starts, innings, total chances, putouts, assists and double plays. In each of those categories he trailed only 10-time Gold Glove Award winner Omar Vizquel. His career fielding percentage of .974 fielding percentage entering this year ranked seventh among all Major League shortstops.

In his career Clayton has a .259 batting average and 223 stolen bases in 1,981 games for the Giants, Cardinals, Rangers, White Sox, Brewers, Rockies, Diamondbacks and Nationals. He has appeared in 13 post-season games. This season for the Nats, Clayton is hitting .269 with 22 doubles and 8 stolen bases in 87 appearances.

Harris, 25, originally was selected by the Chicago White Sox in the fifth round of the 2001 first-year player draft and was sent to the Nationals on July 31, 2004 as part of a 4-team deadline deal that also sent SS Nomar Garciaparra to the Cubs and SS Orlando Cabrera to the Red Sox. This season, he appeared in 17 games for the Nationals and hit .283 with 5 HR and 32 RBI in 59 games for New Orleans.

Thompson, 20, was selected by the Expos in the eighth round of the 2003 first-year player draft and entered this season ranked as Washington's 10th-best minor league prospect. This season for Vermont in the Class A New York-Penn League he went 0-1 with a 6.75 ERA in 4 starts.

Kearns, 26, this season for the Reds hit .274 with 16 HR and 50 RBI in 87 appearances.

Lopez, 26, during the season's first half hit .268 with 9 HR and 30 RBI in 85 games.

Wagner, 23, has spent the entire season in the minor leagues at Louisville, where he has posted a 6.34 ERA in 35 relief appearances.

Denorfia last night played for the International League in the Triple-A All-Star Game in Toledo and went 1-for-3 with 2 runs scored. This season he hit .347 with 14 stolen bases in 70 games for Louisville and has appeared in 7 games during 2 stints with the Reds (4/3-4/8, 5/4-5/10). He was the organization's Minor League Player of the Month for April. Bergolla is hitting .250 with 7 steals in 73 games for the Bats.

This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reds Homepage | MLB.com

RBA
07-13-2006, 04:50 PM
07/13/2006 3:35 PM ET
Reds get Majewski, Bray, Clayton, Harris, Thompson from Nationals
Send Kearns, Lopez, Wagner to Washington in eight-player deal



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CINCINNATI -- The Cincinnati Reds today acquired from the Washington Nationals RHP Gary Majewski, LHP Bill Bray, SS Royce Clayton, IF Brendan Harris and RHP Daryl Thompson in exchange for OF Austin Kearns, SS Felipe Lopez and RHP Ryan Wagner.
Majewski, Clayton and Bray are expected to report to Cincinnati in time for tomorrow's 7:10 p.m. game against the Colorado Rockies. Corresponding roster moves will be announced when they arrive. Harris will report to Class AAA Louisville and Thompson to Sarasota in the Gulf Coast League.

To fill the roster spots of Kearns and Lopez for tonight's game, the Reds have recalled from Louisville OF Chris Denorfia and IF William Bergolla.

Majewski, 26, participated in the World Baseball Classic as a member of Team USA. He has posted a 3.27 ERA with 2 saves in 141 career relief appearances for the Montreal Expos and Nationals. Last season for Washington, Majewski recorded a 2.93 ERA while leading the pitching staff with 79 appearances, a franchise record for a rookie. During the first half of this season he went 3-2 with a 3.58 ERA and begins the second half ranked T5th among all Major League pitchers with 46 games pitched.

Bray, 23, was selected by the Expos with the 13th pick overall of the first round of the 2004 first-year player draft and entered this season already ranked as one of the best prospects in Washington's minor league system. He made his Major League debut this season and has posted a 3.91 ERA in 19 relief appearances. Also this season Bray went 4-1 with a 3.98 ERA and 5 saves in 21 relief appearances at Class AAA New Orleans.

Clayton, a National League All-Star in 1997, entered the 2006 season ranked second among active shortstops in games, starts, innings, total chances, putouts, assists and double plays. In each of those categories he trailed only 10-time Gold Glove Award winner Omar Vizquel. His career fielding percentage of .974 fielding percentage entering this year ranked seventh among all Major League shortstops.

In his career Clayton has a .259 batting average and 223 stolen bases in 1,981 games for the Giants, Cardinals, Rangers, White Sox, Brewers, Rockies, Diamondbacks and Nationals. He has appeared in 13 post-season games. This season for the Nats, Clayton is hitting .269 with 22 doubles and 8 stolen bases in 87 appearances.

Harris, 25, originally was selected by the Chicago White Sox in the fifth round of the 2001 first-year player draft and was sent to the Nationals on July 31, 2004 as part of a 4-team deadline deal that also sent SS Nomar Garciaparra to the Cubs and SS Orlando Cabrera to the Red Sox. This season, he appeared in 17 games for the Nationals and hit .283 with 5 HR and 32 RBI in 59 games for New Orleans.

Thompson, 20, was selected by the Expos in the eighth round of the 2003 first-year player draft and entered this season ranked as Washington's 10th-best minor league prospect. This season for Vermont in the Class A New York-Penn League he went 0-1 with a 6.75 ERA in 4 starts.

Kearns, 26, this season for the Reds hit .274 with 16 HR and 50 RBI in 87 appearances.

Lopez, 26, during the season's first half hit .268 with 9 HR and 30 RBI in 85 games.

Wagner, 23, has spent the entire season in the minor leagues at Louisville, where he has posted a 6.34 ERA in 35 relief appearances.

Denorfia last night played for the International League in the Triple-A All-Star Game in Toledo and went 1-for-3 with 2 runs scored. This season he hit .347 with 14 stolen bases in 70 games for Louisville and has appeared in 7 games during 2 stints with the Reds (4/3-4/8, 5/4-5/10). He was the organization's Minor League Player of the Month for April. Bergolla is hitting .250 with 7 steals in 73 games for the Bats.

westofyou
07-13-2006, 04:50 PM
http://www.forecaster.ca/thestar/baseball/player.cgi?3309

Harris

ASSETS: Harris is an athletic infielder, able to play second, third or short quite well. At the plate, he hits line drives consistently with some pop.
FLAWS: At times, he can be too intense and he could stand to walk more often.
CAREER POTENTIAL: If he catches a break, a solid everyday infielder, better at second than third.


Gary Majewski

ASSETS: A tough competitor, Majewski can hit the mid-90s with his fastball and throws in a tough slider. Pitches well on little or no rest.
FLAWS: Gets in trouble when his pitch count gets into the upper teens.
CAREER POTENTIAL: Solid setup man.


http://www.forecaster.ca/thestar/baseball/player.cgi?1924




Bill Bray



http://www.forecaster.ca/thestar/baseball/player.cgi?4955

redsfan30
07-13-2006, 04:50 PM
I'm not happy. And those who know my history with trades and my reaction to those trades...that's saying something.

reds44
07-13-2006, 04:50 PM
I trust Wayne.

I am probably the only one at this point.

This team was sinking fast, and something needed to be done.

Ltlabner
07-13-2006, 04:50 PM
http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20060713&content_id=1554994&vkey=pr_was&fext=.jsp&c_id=was

Here's a annoucment on the Nationals.com website.

jmcclain19
07-13-2006, 04:51 PM
Bill Bray is a Reliever - put up solid numbers this year in AAA

Thompson has put up decent numbers in the Sally League

At first glance this is a kick to the stomach, for Lopez and Kearns the return doesn't seem that high, but we'll wait a bit before making a huge judgement.

Here is hoping that Thompson turns into Liriano Part II

kyred14
07-13-2006, 04:51 PM
If we trade Kearns or Lopez by themselves and get this return, we get screwed. Both? This could be as bad any trade in Reds history. Horrific.

Cyclone792
07-13-2006, 04:51 PM
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/H/Brendan-Harris.shtml

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/B/Bill-Bray.shtml

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/T/Daryl-Thompson.shtml

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=5427

We all know Royce Clayton is garbage so there's no use posting his stats.

TRF
07-13-2006, 04:51 PM
Krivsky is a fantasy GM. He just moved quality for quantity.

Just because a guy make a flurry of moves, doesn't mean he is better than a guy that makes no moves.

DanO forked out millions for Milton, Ortiz, RA, Weber and Weathers.

Krivsky gave actual talent for crap.

6 of 1....

Caveat Emperor
07-13-2006, 04:51 PM
Lopez should have mega-appeal by himself. Package him with Kearns and I was physhed at the potential return we could get.

Then we get this crap.

Yeah -- that's my instant reaction.

Traded two top young offensive talents, one with great defense in RF and all we get is this?

This is why I was so sick about the though that the Reds were trying to compete this year -- they overpaid to fix their bullpen. Bullpen pitchers are commodities you buy and sell in the offseason or pick up as an additional arm to get over the hump. You don't go remake your bullpen overnight midseason -- it's too damn expensive.

Welcome to the cost of trying to udno mistakes midseason instead of being SENSIBLE and just accepting that you don't have the horses to run the derby.

Christ. Royce frigging Clayton.

reds44
07-13-2006, 04:51 PM
Nationals Get:
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_400290.jpghttp://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_150479.jpghttp://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_429842.jpg
OF Austin Kearns: .274 AVG, 16 HR, ,50 RBI, 7 SB
SS Felipe Lopez: .268 AVG, 9 HR, 30 RBI, 23 SB
P Ryan Wagner: 0-0 0.00 ERA, 0 IP

Reds Get:
http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_400008.jpghttp://washington.nationals.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_435538.jpghttp://washington.nationals.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_112381.jpghttp://washington.nationals.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_430593.jpghttp://media.scout.com/Media/Image/25/257328.jpg
RP Gary Majewski: 3-2 3.58 ERA, 34 K, 55.1 IP
RP Bill Bray: 1-1 3.91 ERA, 16 K, 23.0 IP
SS Royce Clayton: .269 AVG, 0 HR, 27 RBI, 8 SB
IF Brendan Harris: .250 AVG, 0 HR, 2 RBI, 0 SB
RHP Daryl Thompson: ???

bucksfan
07-13-2006, 04:52 PM
Someone say something good, please! .... please???

KronoRed
07-13-2006, 04:52 PM
We've been robbed

Reds4Life
07-13-2006, 04:52 PM
What a horrible trade.

OnBaseMachine
07-13-2006, 04:52 PM
Lopez should have mega-appeal by himself. Package him with Kearns and I was physhed at the potential return we could get.

Then we get this crap.

That's exactly what I thought.

I ran through the house and told my brother that the Reds may have just gotten Dontrelle in return, or maybe another great pitcher. Surprise! They get Juan Castro, two relievers with high WHIP's, a utility player, and a crappy prospect.

This organization is a joke.

vaticanplum
07-13-2006, 04:53 PM
You know...i think....it might not be a bad trade.

I would have expected much more for those two, I really would have. But I think it may work out.

Matt700wlw
07-13-2006, 04:53 PM
Someone say something good, please! .... please???

The greatest baseball player ever is coming up from Louisville. :D

KronoRed
07-13-2006, 04:53 PM
I want Dan O back ;)

Caveat Emperor
07-13-2006, 04:54 PM
I want Dan O back ;)

I want Jim Bowden back.

RBA
07-13-2006, 04:54 PM
This trade may have saved Bowden's career.

KronoRed
07-13-2006, 04:55 PM
Bowden is laughing his butt off at this deal, he can now flip Lopez or Keanrs for more then he gave us for both.

reds44
07-13-2006, 04:55 PM
Well Majewski and Bray are going to help the bullpen out. Deno and Edwin are going to be playing everyday, Phillips is going to to short.

Our lineup is going to look wierd.

ramp101
07-13-2006, 04:55 PM
Bill Bray- drafted in the 1st round of 2004 out of W&Mary... has a nasty fastball in the lower 90s, and 81-84mph slider(inconsistent)... he is good against lefties and righties... success from college hadnt translated above A ball yet as he was 1-0 with a 6.35 in AA last year and 1-4 with a 5.06 in AAA.... he is 1-1 with a 3.91era and 1.43 whip for the Nats in 2006

Gary Majewski- this will be his 5th major league team, strong fastball in lower 90s but can hit 96mph... 82-86mph slider is his out pitch... has a changeup, afraid to use it... and i think he may have been on team USA in the classic this year

Brendan Harris- the one time answer at 3b for the Cubs he is almost 26 years old and is still making trips from AAA to the majors and vice versa... has solid gap power and can hit the occasional homerun, shoud be a good utility man, and could challenge for a starting spot

Daryl Thompson- low 90s fastball, 11-5 curball, improving changeup...still just 20... could be in the rotation as early as 2008... currently in short season A ball, recovering from minor arm surgery

hope that helps

reds44
07-13-2006, 04:55 PM
Can somebody link me to 1350 homer's site so I can listen???

flyer85
07-13-2006, 04:55 PM
That's all we could get for that package of players?

Ehhhhhhhhhh, this ain't good.Unfortunately I thought Lopez had little trade value as most teams would not even consider using him as an everyday SS. I posted earlier today that I though Washington was probably the only team in the majors that would make him their everyday SS. By almost any measure he is a poor fielder with no range.

westofyou
07-13-2006, 04:55 PM
Christ. Royce frigging Clayton.

Most likely a last minute dangle to be the SS the rest of the year, then Phillips goes to SS and Harris 2nd.

In two years Lopez will be expensive and not playing SS. Maybe one year too soon... but better than a year too late (Like with Kearns eh?)

reds44
07-13-2006, 04:56 PM
Bill Bray- drafted in the 1st round of 2004 out of W&Mary... has a nasty fastball in the lower 90s, and 81-84mph slider(inconsistent)... he is good against lefties and righties... success from college hadnt translated above A ball yet as he was 1-0 with a 6.35 in AA last year and 1-4 with a 5.06 in AAA.... he is 1-1 with a 3.91era and 1.43 whip for the Nats in 2006

Gary Majewski- this will be his 5th major league team, strong fastball in lower 90s but can hit 96mph... 82-86mph slider is his out pitch... has a changeup, afraid to use it... and i think he may have been on team USA in the classic this year

Brendan Harris- the one time answer at 3b for the Cubs he is almost 26 years old and is still making trips from AAA to the majors and vice versa... has solid gap power and can hit the occasional homerun, shoud be a good utility man, and could challenge for a starting spot

Daryl Thompson- low 90s fastball, 11-5 curball, improving changeup...still just 20... could be in the rotation as early as 2008... currently in short season A ball, recovering from minor arm surgery

hope that helps
thanks Ramp.

Reds Fanatic
07-13-2006, 04:56 PM
Can somebody link me to 1350 homer's site so I can listen???
http://www.1530homer.com/main.html

vaticanplum
07-13-2006, 04:56 PM
I would like to point out that any trade involving Royce Clayton is NOT on par with the A-Rod deal.

reds44
07-13-2006, 04:57 PM
http://www.1530homer.com/main.html
Thanks

pedro
07-13-2006, 04:58 PM
I don't think it's that bad a trade. Lopez is way overrated by many here and Kearns has never been able to be healthy for an entire year.

Johnny Footstool
07-13-2006, 04:58 PM
All the good will Krivsky generated by acquiring Arroyo and Phillips just got tossed out the window.

Five players, and the best of them (Bray) projects as a solid reliever? GAK.

For an All-Star SS (one year removed) and a highly-regarded RF? Double GAK.

OnBaseMachine
07-13-2006, 04:58 PM
Well Majewski and Bray are going to help the bullpen out.


Really? How much though?

Majewski has a 1.34 WHIP and Bray is 1.43.

Krivsky stinks.

CTA513
07-13-2006, 04:58 PM
I would have liked to see the Reds get Jon Rauch instead of Clayton and Harris.

Getting Clayton is the main thing I dont get in this deal.
Why would you trade for a 36 year old infielder when you have Castro and Aurilia already? The only reason I could see them getting him is if they plan on trading Aurilia, if they dont then it makes no sense at all.

membengal
07-13-2006, 04:58 PM
This really is indefensible.

Roy Tucker
07-13-2006, 04:58 PM
Man, this seems a very high price to pay for some bullpen and defense help. Seems a win-now move.

I guess we'll see how this plays out. Boy oh boy.

Caveat Emperor
07-13-2006, 04:58 PM
Well, they'd better win this year, because they just cashed in their two biggest trading chips and got detritus in return. Nothing that helps the minor leagues out substantially, and nothing that I'd qualify as "instant impact" on the big league squad other than bullpen help -- plus now a net drop in RC due to the absence of two players with offensive capabilities.

I hate this.

redsfan30
07-13-2006, 04:59 PM
So is this a white-flag move?

vaticanplum
07-13-2006, 04:59 PM
Kearns's and Lopez's value were almost at their lowest right now. I'm not entirely surprised why more wasn't gotten for them I guess...but I am rather confused as to why Krivsky thought they needed to be traded right now. If he's looking for immediate help, he's not going to get it from this crew. If he's trying to think long-term, he should have waited until Kearns and Lopez pulled up and gotten more for them.

Slider
07-13-2006, 05:00 PM
So does this make us sellers or buyers?

I dunno what to think...but I'm still hopeful given Krivsky's record so far, that this trade might turn out better than we think...hmmm?????

westofyou
07-13-2006, 05:00 PM
I guess we'll see how this plays out. Boy oh boy.
You mean you're not going to cut your wrists, kick the dog, slam the GM or beat your head against the wall?

Well that ain't no fun.

NJReds
07-13-2006, 05:00 PM
So is this a white-flag move?

This organization is in perpetual "white flag" mode. :bang:

I guess they'll trade Dunn for Melky Cabrera and Miguel Cairo now. (kidding)

CTA513
07-13-2006, 05:00 PM
Ive been checking out other teams message board and we arent the only ones who think the Reds got ripped off.

:help:

Puffy
07-13-2006, 05:01 PM
Man, this seems a very high price to pay for some bullpen and defense help. Seems a win-now move.

I guess we'll see how this plays out. Boy oh boy.

Welcome to Wayne Krivsky's Reds. We're gonna be the NL Twins, only we are not going to be in a weak division that we can dominate for a couple of years before the big boys pound us out of the playoffs. Oh yeah, and we won't have a Johan Santana either.

But get ready for exciting defense, mediocre pitching and mediocre hitting. Good times. Good times.

flyer85
07-13-2006, 05:01 PM
Someone say something good, please! .... please???Even though I am not a Lopez fan, I can't. We got two relievers, a utility infielder and a guy who I hope never suits up for two starters.

captainmorgan07
07-13-2006, 05:02 PM
let's not all jump ship yet here i think deno can do exactly what kearns has been doing in right clayton is 10 times better defensively than lopez offensively is still to be seen majewski and bray have to be an upgrade in the pen

OnBaseMachine
07-13-2006, 05:02 PM
I can't believe they didn't deman Patterson in return, injured or not, he is still better than this garbage.

Matt700wlw
07-13-2006, 05:02 PM
I would like to point out that any trade involving Royce Clayton is NOT on par with the A-Rod deal.

I'm guessing Royce Clayton was just some fodder slapped on to the end of the deal.

Let's hope he's not the everyday shortstop :bang:

reds44
07-13-2006, 05:02 PM
I don't think it's that bad a trade. Lopez is way overrated by many here and Kearns has never been able to be healthy for an entire year.
This I agree with.

KronoRed
07-13-2006, 05:03 PM
So is this a white-flag move?
The BP arm aspect say it's not, but Clayton is going to be a starter..so yeah..yeah it is :help:

membengal
07-13-2006, 05:03 PM
The moves also saved the Reds some salary, no? Now and in the future? And...Clayton. Well. For the record, I would rather see Castro than him.

Ltlabner
07-13-2006, 05:03 PM
Hahahaha....everybody is screaming that we have to revamp the bullpen and as many of us have pointed out, it's an expensive thing to do. So what happens? Kriv goes out and makes some moves and the board explodes with people screaming that we paid to much. Some people are actually suggesting bringing DanO back.

People have acted like Deno is the savior of the free world. Now he gets a chance to play and what happens? The board explodes! Kriv sucks! Bring back Bowden! We got robbed.

People have pounded on Lopez having the range of a turtle and the recient stats on defence show he's worst in the league. And he's getting ready to be really expensive. So Kriv moves him....But of course, because he's ours he must be worth $100,000,000,000,000 of player in return. "I'm gonna be sick". I want Wills, Carbrea, Clemons, and Jeter in return!

Not even 15 minutes to really stop and think about this being a good or bad trade. Just an instant explosion of "we suck", "its over", " I hate this team".

Good grief.

Matt700wlw
07-13-2006, 05:03 PM
I can't believe they didn't deman Patterson in return, injured or not, he is still better than this garbage.

Can't trade someone on the DL (if he's on the DL)

reds44
07-13-2006, 05:03 PM
Ive been checking out other teams message board and we arent the only ones who think the Reds got ripped off.

:help:
http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=64391&st=0&gopid=1218857&#entry1218857

You ain't kidding.

Roy Tucker
07-13-2006, 05:03 PM
4:30 Reds press conference live on WLW.

johngalt
07-13-2006, 05:04 PM
Get ready to see this lineup a bunch:

Denorfia RF
Phillips 2B
Griffey CF
Dunn LF
Aurilia 3B
Hatteberg 1B
Ross C
Clayton SS

KronoRed
07-13-2006, 05:04 PM
This really is indefensible.
Oh give it a few minutes, their will be a defense :devil:

flyer85
07-13-2006, 05:04 PM
The only positive thing you can say is the offense may not suffer if they move Freel to 2nd, Phillips to SS and let Denorfia play everyday. However, they gave up more talent than they got back unless they know somthing about Bill Bray that we don't.

Mutaman
07-13-2006, 05:04 PM
I'm tired of losing every game 10-9. Pitching is the name of the game and lack of it is why this team has been so awful the last five years. At first glance, we traded two average everyday players who can be replaced for two pitchers who can actually come in and get somebody out. Sounds ok to me.

Matt700wlw
07-13-2006, 05:04 PM
Bowden has a woody :D

westofyou
07-13-2006, 05:04 PM
No one should be fooled by Lopez as a SS anymore, the Reds just jettisoned him before I could get his bobblehead out of the box. That and his RH hitting for 2 plus years dragged his value down almost as the Cheshire Cat agent he has will this winter.

Kearns will probably get more expensive next year and could take a hit batting in RFK (wonder how he and Jose will do?)

Perhaps Krivsky was of the mind of splitting up the Gold Dust Twins? Perhaps Kearsny is too much Whitey to Dunn's Mickey?

One thing's for sure this will play out pretty quick, if the Reds nosedive fast this wil be the part everyone will note (not the two 1-8 runs prior to the trade)

Heath
07-13-2006, 05:04 PM
Ive been checking out other teams message board and we arent the only ones who think the Reds got ripped off.

:help:


Just went the nationals board all ballparkguys.com

Most are pissed except for Lopez taking over at short. They thought THEY got robbed.

Get this. The Reds are done with the Nationals this season.

pedro
07-13-2006, 05:05 PM
I would have liked to see the Reds get Jon Rauch instead of Clayton and Harris.

Getting Clayton is the main thing I dont get in this deal.
Why would you trade for a 36 year old infielder when you have Castro and Aurilia already? The only reason I could see them getting him is if they plan on trading Aurilia, if they dont then it makes no sense at all.


Hopefully this means that Phillips will move to SS, Freel to 2B with Clayton becoming the BU SS.

If the players are used correctly, this makes the Reds a better team IMO.

It hurts to lose Kearns but the Reds had to do something about their pitching.

KronoRed
07-13-2006, 05:05 PM
Let's hope he's not the everyday shortstop :bang:
He has a D rep.

You know what that means;)

dsmith421
07-13-2006, 05:05 PM
That's just unspeakably bad. I mean, boycott the team bad. Krivsky has totally embarassed himself.

OnBaseMachine
07-13-2006, 05:05 PM
Can't trade someone on the DL (if he's on the DL)

He's not on the DL.

westofyou
07-13-2006, 05:06 PM
I can't believe they didn't deman Patterson in return, injured or not, he is still better than this garbage.

Yeah, the Cards really liked that Jeff Brantley for Dmitri Young deal for about five minute too.

Caveat Emperor
07-13-2006, 05:06 PM
Hahahaha....everybody is screaming that we have to revamp the bullpen and as many of us have pointed out, it's an expensive thing to do. So what happens? Kriv goes out and makes some moves and the board explodes with people screaming that we paid to much. Some people are actually suggesting bringing DanO back.

People have acted like Deno is the savior of the free world. Now he gets a chance to play and what happens? The board explodes! Kriv sucks! Bring back Bowden! We got robbed.

People have pounded on Lopez having the range of a turtle and the recient stats on defence show he's worst in the league. And he's getting ready to be really expensive. So Kriv moves him....But of course, because he's ours he must be worth $100,000,000,000,000 of player in return. "I'm gonna be sick". I want Wills, Carbrea, Clemons, and Jeter in return!

Not even 15 minutes to really stop and think about this being a good or bad trade. Just an instant explosion of "we suck", "its over", " I hate this team".

Good grief.

If it's cost prohibitive to fix a problem immediately, you put the phone down and live to fight another day. There are plenty of good bullpen guys out there in free agency every year if you open the wallet up and put a little cash on the table.

Overpaying for mediocre talent ruins franchises. Failing to sell franchise commidities for peak value ruins franchise. Krivsky just violated both of those two immutable laws of baseball.

That upsets me.

RedsManRick
07-13-2006, 05:06 PM
Welcome to Wayne Krivsky's Reds. We're gonna be the NL Twins, only we are not going to be in a weak division that we can dominate for a couple of years before the big boys pound us out of the playoffs. Oh yeah, and we won't have a Johan Santana either.

But get ready for exciting defense, mediocre pitching and mediocre hitting. Good times. Good times.

My thoughts exactly Puffy. It's becoming increasingly obvious that Krivsky overvalues defense. As for pitching and defenive middle infielders, we don't need MORE, we need BETTER. Uggh.

traderumor
07-13-2006, 05:07 PM
Doesn't Royce Clayton play shortstop better as a 36 year-old than Lopez does as a 25 year-old? Stopgap, as WOY already pointed out, and should be some defensive help up the middle I imagine is the thought.

Majewski and Coffey could be a decent setup tandem, but Guardardo has to work out, which I'm skeptical of. Hopefully Bray isn't listed on and frequenting Match.com

Denorfia in right is probably going to be darn near close to a wash to Kearns.

Another utility IFer or do we see Phillips start spelling at short?

BTW, at the Break, I was thinking that the offense was so much better with Dunn in the 2 hole, maybe Lopez gone as an option there will have Narron putting him there and keeping him there.

reds44
07-13-2006, 05:07 PM
Get ready to see this lineup a bunch:

Denorfia RF
Phillips 2B
Griffey CF
Dunn LF
Aurilia 3B
Hatteberg 1B
Ross C
Clayton SS
No way. Phillips and Rich will play SS and 2B and Edwin will play 3B.

flyer85
07-13-2006, 05:08 PM
I'm guessing Royce Clayton was just some fodder slapped on to the end of the deal.

Let's hope he's not the everyday shortstop :bang:He is Castro with more range. If he becomes the everyday SS the Reds are finished. The deal only makes sense if Phillips goes to SS and Freel to 2B.

The_jbh
07-13-2006, 05:50 PM
Well I hate to break it to you all but Royce Clayton is our everyday shortstop.

Almost a direct quote from Jerry and and Wayne from the press conference

I didnt mind this deal if freel played 2b and phillips at SS

reds44
07-13-2006, 05:51 PM
Oy Jerry said Clayton is our everyday SS. Why??

Good news is Deno is here to stay.

Caveat Emperor
07-13-2006, 06:05 PM
Wayne Krivsky killed RedsZone.

HotCorner
07-13-2006, 06:07 PM
How do you change your username?

ochre
07-13-2006, 06:07 PM
Long live Redszone.

dsmith421
07-13-2006, 06:08 PM
Oy Jerry said Clayton is our everyday SS. Why??

Because we all root for one of the most consistently stupid franchises in baseball?

OnBaseMachine
07-13-2006, 06:08 PM
Now maybe Wayne can deal Dunn to the Twins for Kyle Lohse.

LincolnparkRed
07-13-2006, 06:09 PM
the site crashing sure cut down the number of viewers

registerthis
07-13-2006, 06:10 PM
I'm tryign to see what Krivsky saw here.

Clearly, he wanted more than majewski and a prospect. Lopez or Kearns alone could have easily netted him that.

And Clayton, in spite of his newfound starting status, won't be here long term.

So who's the centerpiece of this deal? Harris? Thompson? Neither of them knock my socks off. Bray--he looks to be OK, but nothing spectacular.

So, really, what's the logic here? I don't get it.

westofyou
07-13-2006, 06:10 PM
When pitching is a premium you have to deal something of worth in return.

This trade won't play out this year and it's more likely to help next then this year as well. But if Harris is a MLB 2nd baseman and Phillips does get shuttled to SS then the Reds have just upgraded their MI defense at a low cost for several years.

The arms are 3 under 28 year old guys with heat... do the Reds have many like that on their roster? Have they traditionally for years? Can you win with the oldsters that they have been trotting out there?

Finally will Lopez be a 6 Million dollar a year SS next year?

And would it have been on the Reds?

Heath
07-13-2006, 06:10 PM
now the question is if we can merge the 15 pages on the Peanut Gallery to this thread.

That's the only way it will be cool.

edabbs44
07-13-2006, 06:11 PM
I have no prob with the Majic Man and Bray, but not at this expense. I seriously almost left work. Kriv just really killed his reputation. There is NO way this trade works out. They didn't even get a top prospect. Absolutely horrible.

dsmith421
07-13-2006, 06:12 PM
Now maybe Wayne can deal Dunn to the Twins for Kyle Lohse.

Go the BTF thread or any other general interest baseball message board and it's pretty much unanimous: Krivsky is a laughingstock.

Johnny Footstool
07-13-2006, 06:12 PM
Doesn't Royce Clayton play shortstop better as a 36 year-old than Lopez does as a 25 year-old?

Define "play shortstop." If you mean field most of the balls hit within 4 feet of you and make accurate throws to first base while creating outs on offense like Lays creates potato chips, then yes he does.

Heath
07-13-2006, 06:12 PM
When pitching is a premium you have to deal something of worth in return.

This trade won't play out this year and it's more likely to help next then this year as well. But if Harris is a MLB 2nd baseman and Phillips does get shuttled to SS then the Reds have just upgraded their MI defense at a low cost for several years.

The arms are 3 under 28 year old guys with heat... do the Reds have many like that on their roster? Have they traditionally for years? Can you win with the oldsters that they have been trotting out there?

Finally will Lopez be a 6 Million dollar a year SS next year?

And would it have been on the Reds?

Yep. What woy said. I just read this after I typed up about the young pitching in return.

edabbs44
07-13-2006, 06:13 PM
When pitching is a premium you have to deal something of worth in return.

This trade won't play out this year and it's more likely to help next then this year as well. But if Harris is a MLB 2nd baseman and Phillips does get shuttled to SS then the Reds have just upgraded their MI defense at a low cost for several years.

The arms are 3 under 28 year old guys with heat... do the Reds have many like that on their roster? Have they traditionally for years? Can you win with the oldsters that they have been trotting out there?

Finally will Lopez be a 6 Million dollar a year SS next year?

And would it have been on the Reds?
Agreed, but I just can't see this much expense. I'm sure Bowden said..."Wait, you just said Lopez AND Kearns???"

GridironGrace
07-13-2006, 06:13 PM
WE gave away WAY to much to get nothing that helps us NOW in return.

We sacraficed 2 GREAT HITTERS for midocre Bullpen help and a defensive SS.

we got ONE RP that can pitch today.

registerthis
07-13-2006, 06:13 PM
When pitching is a premium you have to deal something of worth in return.

This trade won't play out this year and it's more likely to help next then this year as well. But if Harris is a MLB 2nd baseman and Phillips does get shuttled to SS then the Reds have just upgraded their MI defense at a low cost for several years.

The arms are 3 under 28 year old guys with heat... do the Reds have many like that on their roster? Have they traditionally for years? Can you win with the oldsters that they have been trotting out there?

Finally will Lopez be a 6 Million dollar a year SS next year?

And would it have been on the Reds?

i guess my feelings are that I don't have a problem with the Reds trading Kearns and loez, but in spite of whatever the Nats players bring to the table, it doesn't offset the talent lost, and it isn't likely to. How likely is it that Thompson moves up from A ball to become a legitimate pitching force? How likely is it that Majewski maintains his dominance, or that Bray becomes something special?

And the inclusion of Clayton, witht he glut of middle IFers on this team, remains baffling to me.

membengal
07-13-2006, 06:13 PM
Nick Johnson. Those two for Nick Johnson. That would have been OK. A top prospect for Majewski. That would have been doable. If this is the market for bullpen help, the Reds should NOT have paid

ramp101
07-13-2006, 06:14 PM
Like I told my boy reds44, I like that the Reds improved their pen, and I like that Denorfia is going to get some PT... the only problem I have with the deal is that I think the Reds could have gotten Bray and Co for Kearns alone... I just think they gave up too much

Caveat Emperor
07-13-2006, 06:14 PM
This trade won't play out this year and it's more leikely to help next then this year as well. But if Harris is a MLB 2nd baseman and Phillips does get shuttled to SS then the Reds have just upgraded their MI defense at a low cost for several years.

Arroyo: Flyball pitcher
Milton: Flyball pitcher
Harang: Neutral Pitcher (slight flyball for career)
Ramirez:Neutral Pitcher (slight groundball for career)
Claussen: Flyball pitcher

Infield defense should be a little lower on the totem pole of the Reds worries, IMO, especially in the Great American Ballpark.

And Harris doesn't look like he's been anything special in the minors -- never posted over a mid .800s OPS at the upper levels. His defense doesn't make up for lost runs in the MI due to his weak stick.

pedro
07-13-2006, 06:15 PM
I'm tryign to see what Krivsky saw here.

Clearly, he wanted more than majewski and a prospect. Lopez or Kearns alone could have easily netted him that.

And Clayton, in spite of his newfound starting status, won't be here long term.

So who's the centerpiece of this deal? Harris? Thompson? Neither of them knock my socks off. Bray--he looks to be OK, but nothing spectacular.

So, really, what's the logic here? I don't get it.


Trying to win now IMO. Plus bray and majewski will be under the Reds control for several years.

Plus I'm pretty sure this was Lopez' walk year.

vaticanplum
07-13-2006, 06:15 PM
Agreed, but I just can't see this much expense. I'm sure Bowden said..."Wait, you just said Lopez AND Kearns???"

Yep, should have been one of them, and that would have been pushing it.

I'm still waiting for a) a acquisition of a supahot pitcher in the next two weeks, or b) an apology for the unfortunate typo on the press release. Surely there's another Lopez running around our farm system somewhere?

danforsman
07-13-2006, 06:15 PM
Assuming Denorfia/Kearns is a near wash and Clayton/Lopez is a near wash, then substitute the numbers for Majewski and Bray for the numbers of Hammond and Weathers over the past month, and how many more wins would the Reds have had? I understand Krivsky's thinking, especially when coupled with Lopez's contract/agent. This move looks bad on chat rooms, but I think it will equal more wins on the field.

registerthis
07-13-2006, 06:16 PM
Trying to win now IMO.

If that's true, then this trade was a huge mistake.

johngalt
07-13-2006, 06:17 PM
Not to sound all melodramatic, but this trade has the potential to be on par with the Frank Robinson deal as far as disasters go.

Trading two young guys who could be cornerstones for the next 7-8 years in order to add two bullpen arms and a utility infielder is not a deal I want to see my team make.

Heath
07-13-2006, 06:17 PM
hey Majic Man's G/F ratio - 1.75

at least that part's right.

HotCorner
07-13-2006, 06:17 PM
How do you change your username?

Seriously ... With 28 no longer here, how can I change my username?

westofyou
07-13-2006, 06:17 PM
Infield defense should be a little lower on the totem pole of the Reds worries, IMO, especially in the Great American Ballpark.

I'd say it should never be ignored, a pourous infield affects the game on a zillion levels, even if this year the staff (starters) are FB oriented.

Puffy
07-13-2006, 06:17 PM
Arroyo: Flyball pitcher
Milton: Flyball pitcher
Harang: Neutral Pitcher (slight flyball for career)
Ramirez:Neutral Pitcher (slight groundball for career)
Claussen: Flyball pitcher

Infield defense should be a little lower on the totem pole of the Reds worries, IMO, especially in the Great American Ballpark.




There it is in a nutshell - its like starting Castro last week when Milton was pitching. Milton is a flyball pitcher - offense should be your concern over infield defense with him on the mound. Its not that hard a concept.

johngalt
07-13-2006, 06:17 PM
Assuming Denorfia/Kearns is a near wash and Clayton/Lopez is a near wash, then substitute the numbers for Majewski and Bray for the numbers of Hammond and Weathers over the past month, and how many more wins would the Reds have had? I understand Krivsky's thinking, especially when coupled with Lopez's contract/agent. This move looks bad on chat rooms, but I think it will equal more wins on the field.

Anyone who thinks Clayton/Lopez is anywhere close to a near wash needs some kind of medical exam.

Buckeye33
07-13-2006, 06:18 PM
We sacraficed 2 GREAT HITTERS for midocre Bullpen help and a defensive SS.

Who else did we trade to the Nationals? I know for sure that the Reds did not trade to GREAT hitters today in the trade that has been announced.

Come on. Lopez a GREAT hitter? Kearns a GREAT hitter?

Take the Reds blinders off people. The Reds did not get quite enough back in terms of talent alone, but when you factor in $$ saved for the off season and the age of all the guys we got in return (besides Clayton) the Reds did not get hosed as bad as everyone believes. IMO of course.

GridironGrace
07-13-2006, 06:18 PM
Aight aight.......i blew the pena deal way up and it ended up being great...... so what im gonna do is chill and wait for August 1st... if we are in the same posistion or better come august then this trade didnt hurt nor help

if we improve.. it helped......but i really dont see it yet.. i dont know these players we are getting.. but i do know that lopez and kearns have helped us all year and our lineup just got less scary to face. That I KNOW.

wheres clayton gonna bat? is there another deal thats being made and thats the reason lopez went....... are we calling up one of those young pitchers NOW.......?

i dunno all i know is we have a 4 game series against the Rockies and if we wanna stay on pace to have a wining season and make the playoffs we better START WINNING Today.....trade or no trade we have ONE WIN IN JULY. and 16 games left.. if we dont go atleast 8-8 we are in DEEP TROUBLE.. and we better start thinking about how to get a 10 game win streak Going somewhere this month or else we are way below the 15 wins a month it takes to get anywhere NEAR 90 wins and keep pressure on teh cards.

vaticanplum
07-13-2006, 06:19 PM
Was there any cash involved in this deal? I haven't heard mention of it.

chicoruiz
07-13-2006, 06:19 PM
Maybe I'm just being a contrarian, but I kind of like it. Bray is a 23-year-old former #1 pick with nasty stuff; he's worth FeLo by himself, IMHO. He could be the pitcher we thought Wagner was going to be. Wagner for Thompson seems to be a wash, so you've got Kearns for Majeski and Harris. That ain't so bad.

Clayton? Stop stressing about him. In the grand scheme of things he's a dragonfly; he'll flutter across the Reds landscape for a brief period and then be gone.

Redmachine2003
07-13-2006, 06:19 PM
This is why I said the Reds need to sale, sale, sale. They would have gotten better prospects and talent if they traded to teams that are in the race, instead they over pay avg. players to try and fix holes and try to win this year. Wayne should of and could of done alot better than this.

registerthis
07-13-2006, 06:19 PM
Clayton/Lopez is a near wash

But it's not. It's not at all.

And it's not that Majewski and Bray can't help this team. No one's saying they can't. The question is, was the talent the Reds gave up equal to the talent they received? The answer to that is an unequivocal no.

Marc D
07-13-2006, 06:19 PM
Majewski, Bray and Coffey give us 3 good young set up men who throw hard. I'll give this deal that much.

As far as Harris goes we need more utility IF like Custer needed more indians. If Kriv sprinkles some Ross/Phillips/Arroyo dust and he turns into something then fine.

Thompson is getiing killed in A ball so I fail to see any worth there and Clayton, no more need said.

All in all, I thought AK and FeLo would fetch more. Thats my only heartburn with this deal. I did however want both gone in a big way.

The_jbh
07-13-2006, 06:20 PM
Alright... when you get beyond that we didn't get the value of what we thought our players were worth... this trade isn't that bad (in other words, strictly looking at what we got back and not what we gave up to get it)

The line up looks like
RF Freel/Denorfia
2B Phillips
CF Griffey
LF Dunn
3B Encarnacion
1B Hatteburg
C Ross/Larue/Valentin
SS Clayton

that line up does not have that much less pop. In my world, i'm thinking Clayton is going to play SS 4 to 5 days a week and we'll get freel denorfia and phillips in the same line up with Phillips at SS freel at 2B and Deno in RF. THe only way that happens is if Deno forces Jerry to play him every day.

The big key is the pen is much better

CP Easy E
Set up
Bray
Maj
Middle relief
Coffey
Merker
Weathers or Yan my bet is one of those 2 are DFA'd or Beslile is sent down.
long relief
Beslile

That's SIGNFICANTLY better. Now a guy who was our best reliever is our 3rd to 4th option.


I am by no means excited about this trade but I think it does make us a better TEAM.

ochre
07-13-2006, 06:20 PM
Seriously ... With 28 no longer here, how can I change my username?
boss, or GIK can do that for you I believe

WVRed
07-13-2006, 06:20 PM
I have no prob with the Majic Man and Bray, but not at this expense. I seriously almost left work. Kriv just really killed his reputation. There is NO way this trade works out. They didn't even get a top prospect. Absolutely horrible.

Disagree. This trade doesnt look on paper like it will benefit the Nats as much as it is being played.

Keep in mind both Kearns and Lopez are going to RFK. Kearns is going from All-Star potential to Brady Clark. Felipe Lopez might have the most impact in that park, but I wouldnt count on him ever hitting 20+ HR a season if he stays there.

Could the Reds have done better? Definitely. But I think many people on this board have seriously overrated Kearns and Lopez.

Heath
07-13-2006, 06:21 PM
Not to sound all melodramatic, but this trade has the potential to be on par with the Frank Robinson deal as far as disasters go.

Trading two young guys who could be cornerstones for the next 7-8 years in order to add two bullpen arms and a utility infielder is not a deal I want to see my team make.


Lopez and Kearns would never have been here for seven years. Lopez could walk after this year - and at 6 million+ - he would have priced himself out of Cincinnati.

You never know if he would regress back to 2004. In fact, there were members of this board crying over Lopez's regression. Plus, with Scott Boras on the hill, it would have made it more likely that Lopez was gone.

Kearns still has Ray King nightmares, IMO. I feel Dunn will be affected the most with the loss of his wingman.

Something else is brewing - but I am not sure what.

Caveat Emperor
07-13-2006, 06:21 PM
I'd say it should never be ignored, a pourous infield affects the game on a zillion levels, even if this year the staff (starters) are FB oriented.

So you want to argue that the defense/offense runs created/allowed of Lopez/Phillips isn't better than Philllips/Clayton or Phillips/Harris (if he ever learns how to hit)?

Not much use stopping runs if you aren't scoring any yourself.

johngalt
07-13-2006, 06:22 PM
Clayton? Stop stressing about him. In the grand scheme of things he's a dragonfly; he'll flutter across the Reds landscape for a brief period and then be gone.

That's part of the point. Who will replace him? Phillips? Then who plays second in the future?

You had Encarnacion, Lopez and Phillips as your infield set for the next 5-6 years and you blow it all up just so you can get a couple bullpen guys.

pedro
07-13-2006, 06:22 PM
I ask again. Isn't Lopez in his walk year? Every is talking like he was going to be part of the team for years to come, but when/if he walks at the end of the year will this deal really be that great for those that think that the Nats just ripped the Reds off?

Strikes Out Looking
07-13-2006, 06:22 PM
I am willing to give Krivsky time before I declare this a bad deal.

In giving up Lopez/Kearns we get rid of two guys who are arbitration eligible. In Lopez, we lose a Boras client who was losing value quickly. Kearns has been healthy this year, but who knows? Kearns is the one I hate to give up...but

We now get to see what Denoforia can do. I'm going to guess he and Freel will split time in RF and add some zing to the lineup. That's not a bad thing.

I just happened to see both Bray and the Majic man pitch on Sunday at RFK. Bray was excellent. Majic got lit up, but I don't think he is a bad pitcher.

All in all, the Reds bullpen has been improved. Will it be enough to win this year--we don't know. And if it doesn't work, the Reds have plenty of salary room to play with in bringing in others in '07 (the year of Homer).

registerthis
07-13-2006, 06:23 PM
Could the Reds have done better? Definitely. But I think many people on this board have seriously overrated Kearns and Lopez.

I don't really care how much--or little--it ends up benefitting the Nats. i think the consensus is if Reds management hadn't felt backed into a corner to pull some deals to stay in the race this year, and instead had decided to be sellers at the trade deadline, they could have gotten a greater return than what they did.

johngalt
07-13-2006, 06:23 PM
I ask again. Isn't Lopez in his walk year? Every is talking like he was going to be part of the team for years to come, but when/if he walks at the end of teh year will this deal really be that grate for those that think that the Nats just ripped the Reds off?

Lopez was arbitration eligible for the first time this past offseason. Still plenty of time to go.

vaticanplum
07-13-2006, 06:23 PM
Alright... when you get beyond that we didn't get the value of what we thought our players were worth... this trade isn't that bad (in other words, strictly looking at what we got back and not what we gave up to get it)

The line up looks like
RF Freel/Denorfia
2B Phillips
CF Griffey
LF Dunn
3B Encarnacion
1B Hatteburg
C Ross/Larue/Valentin
SS Clayton

that line up does not have that much less pop. In my world, i'm thinking Clayton is going to play SS 4 to 5 days a week and we'll get freel denorfia and phillips in the same line up with Phillips at SS freel at 2B and Deno in RF. THe only way that happens is if Deno forces Jerry to play him every day.

The big key is the pen is much better

CP Easy E
Set up
Bray
Maj
Middle relief
Coffey
Merker
Weathers or Yan my bet is one of those 2 are DFA'd or Beslile is sent down.
long relief
Beslile

That's SIGNFICANTLY better. Now a guy who was our best reliever is our 3rd to 4th option.


I am by no means excited about this trade but I think it does make us a better TEAM.

I am chilling out (I have also had a beer). I wanted bullpen help above all else so there you go. Would have preferred not to have given up so much, but FeLo is a Boras client after all, and Kearns is not consistent, and thank God we have Phillips and Denorfia.

So I will wait it out. I'd rather have a balanced team than killer anything and awful anything, it's true. Now I just have to resign myself to Yankee stadium falling over early when Ponson stands on the mound.

westofyou
07-13-2006, 06:23 PM
That's part of the point. Who will replace him? Phillips? Then who plays second in the future?

You had Encarnacion, Lopez and Phillips as your infield set for the next 5-6 years and you blow it all up just so you can get a couple bullpen guys.
Harris.. the guy they just got.

registerthis
07-13-2006, 06:24 PM
but when/if he walks at the end of teh year will this deal really be that grate for those that think that the Nats just ripped the Reds off?

If he walks from Washington after this year, you can't automatically assume he would also have done the same in Cinci.

it does appear, though, that Lopez was not in the LT plans for this team. Funny what a difference a year makes.

Johnny Footstool
07-13-2006, 06:25 PM
But it's not. It's not at all.

And it's not that Majewski and Bray can't help this team. No one's saying they can't. The question is, was the talent the Reds gave up equal to the talent they received? The answer to that is an unequivocal no.

Exactly.

It's not like Majewski and Bray are Scot Shields and Justin Duscherer. They're good, but not that good.

The Reds just paid $150 for Levis jeans. Not wise spending.

GridironGrace
07-13-2006, 06:25 PM
Yea i get the feeling that something else is cooking and cooking slowly...

Who's gonna be the next to go.....seems to me that K is making this a team of HIS Players... which could be good in the end.. but i dunno.

Something else is coming..... and i have a felling it'll be another one no one likes :(

We shall see.

Johnny Footstool
07-13-2006, 06:26 PM
Harris.. the guy they just got.

The guy who turns 26 in August and is still turning in mediocre performances in AAA ball? Yipee.

westofyou
07-13-2006, 06:26 PM
So you want to argue that the defense/offense runs created/allowed of Lopez/Phillips isn't better than Philllips/Clayton or Phillips/Harris (if he ever learns how to hit)?

Not much use stopping runs if you aren't scoring any yourself.
Actually I don't want to argue squat.

This decade has been the suck... period and the worm has turned.. if they are going to be the suck at least it won't be the same tired reasons why, crap defense and no pitching.

In the Reds park offense will be no problem.

Stopping the other teams sure seems to be though.... home and away.

vaticanplum
07-13-2006, 06:26 PM
The Reds just paid $150 for Levis jeans. Not wise spending.

Ah, but some people will pay that much for jeans if they fit spectacularly, and if they ultimately lead to bigger and better things. Just saying.

danforsman
07-13-2006, 06:27 PM
But it's not. It's not at all.

And it's not that Majewski and Bray can't help this team. No one's saying they can't. The question is, was the talent the Reds gave up equal to the talent they received? The answer to that is an unequivocal no.

So far this year, their numbers not too far off, especially considering their surrounding offensive talent and stadiums. Add Clayton's defensive superiority, and it's pretty damn close.

KronoRed
07-13-2006, 06:27 PM
Harris strikes me as a Larson, minor league fluff.

This is really a trade of Lopez+Kearns for an old SS some BP help and a maybe starter 3 years from now.

Caveat Emperor
07-13-2006, 06:27 PM
Harris.. the guy they just got.

Serious question -- is Harris going to hit at the ML level? His Minor league numbers are fairly middling -- .379/.416/.895. Good but not great.

dsmith421
07-13-2006, 06:27 PM
In giving up Lopez/Kearns we get rid of two guys who are arbitration eligible.

I thought now that Castellini was owner we didn't have to worry about nickel-and-diming and trading every promising player that sniffed arbitration.

johngalt
07-13-2006, 06:27 PM
If he walks from Washington after this year, you can't automatically assume he would also have done the same in Cinci.

it does appear, though, that Lopez was not in the LT plans for this team. Funny what a difference a year makes.

Lopez still has 2 more seasons AFTER this before he can be a free agent.

Heath
07-13-2006, 06:27 PM
If he walks from Washington after this year, you can't automatically assume he would also have done the same in Cinci.

Its part of the Scott Boras deal - Cincinnati would not have paid the money that Lopez wanted after s sub-par 2006 which followed a career-year (as of now) 2005.

So, yes, Lopez walks to wherever he's going to get his money.

westofyou
07-13-2006, 06:28 PM
The guy who turns 26 in August and is still turning in mediocre performances in AAA ball? Yipee.
Well of course that's a what if... but then again whose to say the Reds don't go get The Dodgers extra SS.

pedro
07-13-2006, 06:28 PM
If he walks from Washington after this year, you can't automatically assume he would also have done the same in Cinci.

it does appear, though, that Lopez was not in the LT plans for this team. Funny what a difference a year makes.


well, he's the worst defensive SS in the majors, has an OPS of .749 this year and can't hit lefties. How much do people really think he's worth?

GridironGrace
07-13-2006, 06:29 PM
Ah well off to watch a movie before teh game.

I just think that its the day after the Break.. we still had atleast 2 weeks to let things SIMMER and find that perfect trade instead of being the ones to START the July Burner :(

johngalt
07-13-2006, 06:29 PM
Harris.. the guy they just got.

Harris has utility written all over him. You could even hear it today when Krivsky and Narron talked about him with his ability to play all over the field.

westofyou
07-13-2006, 06:29 PM
Lopez still has 2 more seasons AFTER this before he can be a free agent.
True, but he was making 4 million this year and his SS play has been less then stellar.

dsmith421
07-13-2006, 06:29 PM
Well of course that's a what if... but then again whose to say the Reds don't go get The Dodgers extra SS.

Well, having seen what Krivsky will give up for mediocre talent, I'd say a Dunn for Izturis deal is probably the next logical step. Unless we send the Donkey north for Kyle Lohse, that is.

Heath
07-13-2006, 06:29 PM
Lopez still has 2 more seasons AFTER this before he can be a free agent.

He's arb eligible, and if he's going to get a big payday based on a previous career year and a sub-par 2006, the Reds would have cut ties with him.

RedLegSuperStar
07-13-2006, 06:30 PM
Maybe I'm just being a contrarian, but I kind of like it. Bray is a 23-year-old former #1 pick with nasty stuff; he's worth FeLo by himself, IMHO. He could be the pitcher we thought Wagner was going to be. Wagner for Thompson seems to be a wash, so you've got Kearns for Majeski and Harris. That ain't so bad.

Clayton? Stop stressing about him. In the grand scheme of things he's a dragonfly; he'll flutter across the Reds landscape for a brief period and then be gone.

Plus you factor in the Reds bring up Denorfia which needs to be up here. This also gives the Reds some salary flexability come the offseason. Will this be the last of the moves?

johngalt
07-13-2006, 06:30 PM
He's arb eligible, and if he's going to get a big payday based on a previous career year and a sub-par 2006, the Reds would have cut ties with him.

There's no way the Reds would non-tender him, even if they were somewhat disappointed.

HotCorner
07-13-2006, 06:30 PM
boss, or GIK can do that for you I believe

Thanks!

Matt700wlw
07-13-2006, 06:30 PM
For what it's worth, the Reds got Washington's 5th, 6th, and 7th rated prospects in this deal.

Puffy
07-13-2006, 06:31 PM
Its part of the Scott Boras deal - Cincinnati would not have paid the money that Lopez wanted after s sub-par 2006 which followed a career-year (as of now) 2005.

So, yes, Lopez walks to wherever he's going to get his money.

No, he doesn't - he has two more arbitration years left. Hard feelings, maybe. But he ain't walking anywhere for those two years if the Reds choose.

Matt700wlw
07-13-2006, 06:31 PM
This also gives the Reds some salary flexability come the offseason. Will this be the last of the moves?

Krivsky is never Dunn...

;)

flyer85
07-13-2006, 06:31 PM
I ask again. Isn't Lopez in his walk year? No. Reds would have him through 2008

johngalt
07-13-2006, 06:32 PM
True, but he was making 4 million this year and his SS play has been less then stellar.

The only reason his play was off is because they wanted him to be Ryan Freel instead of Barry Larkin. That's certainly part of the problem, but I just don't see the justification.

Caveat Emperor
07-13-2006, 06:32 PM
well, he's the worst defensive SS in the majors, has an OPS of .749 this year and can't hit lefties. How much do people really think he's worth?

Not as much as he probably would've netted being dealt last year.

The success/failure of this deal now rides on Brandon Phillips not being a fluke and Brendan Harris discovering how to hit major league pitching at age 26.

Either that, or this is just wave 1. I'm a little worried about wave 2.

KronoRed
07-13-2006, 06:32 PM
The Dunn move, probably for another older MI will be done in the offseason

flyer85
07-13-2006, 06:32 PM
I'd like this deal better if Clayton had not been included.

pedro
07-13-2006, 06:32 PM
No, he doesn't - he has two more arbitration years left. Hard feelings, maybe. But he ain't walking anywhere for those two years if the Reds choose.


he sure as hell isn;t worth the money he'd get in arb.

Lousy fielder. .749 OPS. Last year was a mirage IMO.

OnBaseMachine
07-13-2006, 06:32 PM
Buster Olney said Griffey or Dunn could be traded to the Yanks for Phillip Hughes.

I would deal Griff for Hughes. Dunn? Hell no.

edabbs44
07-13-2006, 06:33 PM
Disagree. This trade doesnt look on paper like it will benefit the Nats as much as it is being played.

Keep in mind both Kearns and Lopez are going to RFK. Kearns is going from All-Star potential to Brady Clark. Felipe Lopez might have the most impact in that park, but I wouldnt count on him ever hitting 20+ HR a season if he stays there.

Could the Reds have done better? Definitely. But I think many people on this board have seriously overrated Kearns and Lopez.
It doesn't matter what happens to AK and FeLo after they leave...it matters what happens to the Reds.

pedro
07-13-2006, 06:33 PM
The Dunn move, probably for another older MI will be done in the offseason

yeah right.

Jpup
07-13-2006, 06:33 PM
I hated to see Kearns traded, but after calming down a bit, I don't think the trade is too bad. Lopez was going to walk and Wagner is AAA fodder.

I'll take a optimistic approach to this deal, although that authentic Kearns jersey in the closet isn't going to get much use anymore.

We'll see how it turns out.

westofyou
07-13-2006, 06:33 PM
Krivsky is never Dunn...

;)
The Reds just traded 20% of their extra base hits, Dunn ain't going anywhere.

GoReds
07-13-2006, 06:34 PM
I fell outta love with Kearns when he stopped hitting and kept trying to pull everything to Pennsylvania. He continues that in RFK and he's in for a rude awakening. Lopez was a killer at short and at the plate if there was a lefty on the mound. These aren't secrets only the Reds are aware - the warts have been on display for most of the year.

Trading Kearns and inserting Denorfia may do more for this team than we realize. Kearns has always been pretty laid back - as has Lopez - and this team desperately needs a kick in the pants from time-to-time. Maybe that will be an aspect that will be there more with the likes of Freel and Deno in the lineup more.

I look at this as an endorsement of EdE in the long run. He could have been the one traded and, likely garnered more in return. I like EdE's potential, but am sick of seeing him and Lopez butcher the left side of the infield. With Phillips/Clayton/Castro, that left side shouldn't look nearly as bad.

This trade isn't all about this year. There's now some future payflex available for a move or two later this month or during the winter to work on the starting staff. Maybe the Reds could have gotten more if they had waited, but it's a buyer's market this year with the majority of the teams in the race and the Reds did something unusual and struck first.

johngalt
07-13-2006, 06:34 PM
he sure as hell isn;t worth the money he'd get in arb.

Lousy fielder. .749 OPS. Last year was a mirage IMO.

If Jerry Narron would stop trying to make him a slap hitter who bunts and steals bases, he'd be worth every penny and more.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-13-2006, 06:34 PM
I'd like this deal better if Clayton had not been included.

I think I could live with it too, but Clayton makes the whole deal smell.

The_jbh
07-13-2006, 06:34 PM
THis deal significantly improves our infield defense. EE is the only weakness now...



come on give me credit im trying to look at bright sides...

I really do feel better going into the 7-8th inning

edabbs44
07-13-2006, 06:34 PM
Buster Olney said Griffey or Dunn could be traded to the Yanks for Phillip Hughes.

I would deal Griff for Hughes. Dunn? Hell no.
If that is true, then this is the beginning of a HUGE fire sale.

The good news is, the Reds might be stacked in 3 years.

johngalt
07-13-2006, 06:35 PM
Next move:

Reds acquire RHP Roberto Hernandez from the Pirates in exchange for 3B Edwin Encarnacion

Joseph
07-13-2006, 06:35 PM
Let me go on record saying that while I was a fan of Kearns, and for that matter Lopez, I think this trade has gone a long way towards getting the Reds to the post season while not damaging the big league club, nor hamstringing it with long term contracts, and at the same time has infused a bit of talent into a depleted farm system.

So after my initial shock, I say, what's not to like?

We lose a solid OFer yes, but we also jettison a RHP who was never going to succeed here, and a SS who was going to be very expensive next year anyway and we have solid defensive replacements in house already in Phillips, Olmedo, Bergolla, etal.

Nice move Krivsky.

Joseph
07-13-2006, 06:35 PM
Let me go on record saying that while I was a fan of Kearns, and for that matter Lopez, I think this trade has gone a long way towards getting the Reds to the post season while not damaging the big league club, nor hamstringing it with long term contracts, and at the same time has infused a bit of talent into a depleted farm system.

So after my initial shock, I say, what's not to like?

We lose a solid OFer yes, but we also jettison a RHP who was never going to succeed here, and a SS who was going to be very expensive next year anyway and we have solid defensive replacements in house already in Phillips, Olmedo, Bergolla, etal.

Nice move Krivsky.

pedro
07-13-2006, 06:35 PM
If Jerry Narron would stop trying to make him a slap hitter who bunts and steals bases, he'd be worth every penny and more.

I don't buy that.

wally post
07-13-2006, 06:35 PM
like in all trades, eventually, we'll find out how it turned out. I agree with the idea that Kearns (will he ever be healthy and steady) and Lopez (contract concerns long term) were overrated in our minds.

I VERY MUCH would've rather received ONE A level player for all three - but it didn't happen.

Assuming that Denorfia works out as we suspect, we haven't really lost anything offensively with this deal - maybe gained eventually.
Plus, the relievers ARE better than what we have. and Harris?.. who knows? I remember everyone saying "who are Cesar Geronimo and Joe Morgan?" I prefer to think positive on this trade!

Management couldn't bail on this year - that would be bad business. I think they did well with this trade 'cause it looks to the future (with a roll of the dice admittedly) without losing core people.
So in a nutshell, I think Kearns and Lopez were never core people.

KronoRed
07-13-2006, 06:36 PM
The Reds just traded 20% of their extra base hits, Dunn ain't going anywhere.
But Krivsky is a Defence and win the game in the 9th kind of guy, I could see Dunn being moved.

westofyou
07-13-2006, 06:36 PM
I think I could live with it too, but Clayton makes the whole deal smell.
Clayton was the guy they tossed to the Reds because Lopez was leaving... he won't be a Red next year and he keeps Castro from being the number one (for now)

Caveat Emperor
07-13-2006, 06:36 PM
If that is true, then this is the beginning of a HUGE fire sale.

The good news is, the Reds might be stacked in 3 years.

The only question left is will they stop the game to sing "Happy Birthday" to Royce Clayton for his big 4-0 celebration. :evil:

Heath
07-13-2006, 06:36 PM
No, he doesn't - he has two more arbitration years left. Hard feelings, maybe. But he ain't walking anywhere for those two years if the Reds choose.

You hit the magic words ----- if the Reds choose.

Let's say FeLo at 4 Million hits .260/.350/.380 - what is his potenial worth/value of what he compares to other SS?

Boras will base his theory on a productive 2005 - .291/.359/.486 - so he'll ask for 6 million or even more.

After the Jason LaRue debacle, do you really think that the Reds would pony up the extra $$ to keep Lopez? I don't think so.

I think the Reds would choose to cut ties. This way, Bowden can deal with arb years.

edabbs44
07-13-2006, 06:36 PM
Let me go on record saying that while I was a fan of Kearns, and for that matter Lopez, I think this trade has gone a long way towards getting the Reds to the post season while not damaging the big league club, nor hamstringing it with long term contracts, and at the same time has infused a bit of talent into a depleted farm system.

So after my initial shock, I say, what's not to like?

We lose a solid OFer yes, but we also jettison a RHP who was never going to succeed here, and a SS who was going to be very expensive next year anyway and we have solid defensive replacements in house already in Phillips, Olmedo, Bergolla, etal.

Nice move Krivsky.
I think Kearns and Lopez, if they had to get rid of them, would have netted more seperately than together in this trade.

flyer85
07-13-2006, 06:36 PM
I hope the next move is to release Mays and put belisle in the rotation.

westofyou
07-13-2006, 06:37 PM
But Krivsky is a Defence and win the game in the 9th kind of guy, I could see Dunn being moved.
Yeah...30 years in the game and that's the only part he values.

flyer85
07-13-2006, 06:37 PM
he keeps Castro from being the number one (for now)which doesn't make much difference

KronoRed
07-13-2006, 06:37 PM
I hope the next move is to release Mays and put belisle in the rotation.
Give up on Mays? no way ;)

vaticanplum
07-13-2006, 06:38 PM
Let's not forget we gave up Ryan Wagner too. Probably he's the Nationals fans' Clayton. Of course, they don't really have an equivalent to Kearns in the deal.

Marc D
07-13-2006, 06:38 PM
If Kriv moves JR(and his contract) to NYY for Hughes I'm happy.

If its Dunn I'm postal.

GoReds
07-13-2006, 06:38 PM
I hope the next move is to release Mays and put belisle in the rotation.

Exactly.

pedro
07-13-2006, 06:38 PM
which doesn't make much difference

sure it does. Clayton has more range and is a better hitter.

reds44
07-13-2006, 06:38 PM
Buster Olney said Griffey or Dunn could be traded to the Yanks for Phillip Hughes.

I would deal Griff for Hughes. Dunn? Hell no.
If we trade Dunn for Hughes I will flip.

If we do that, then this is a fire sale.

Now I would do Griffey for Hughes.

vaticanplum
07-13-2006, 06:39 PM
If Kriv moves JR(and his contract) to NYY for Hughes I'm happy.

If its Dunn I'm postal.

They won't trade Hughes.

KronoRed
07-13-2006, 06:39 PM
Yeah...30 years in the game and that's the only part he values.
Not saying that, just saying he could see Phillips/JR/Freel/EE as adequate, especially if someone offers up a starter for Dunn.

Jpup
07-13-2006, 06:39 PM
They won't trade Hughes.

yes they will.

Heath
07-13-2006, 06:39 PM
If Jerry Narron would stop trying to make him a slap hitter who bunts and steals bases, he'd be worth every penny and more.

..and before that Dave Miley had him swinging for the fences.

He's more Willie Mays Hayes than Willie Mays.

flyer85
07-13-2006, 06:40 PM
sure it does. Clayton has more range and is a better hitter.only marginally.

vaticanplum
07-13-2006, 06:40 PM
yes they will.

Well, we disagree on this then. My impression is that he's being regarded as one of the 5-10 unmovable prospects in baseball. Even with Steinbrenner at the helm.

Puffy
07-13-2006, 06:40 PM
You hit the magic words ----- if the Reds choose.

Let's say FeLo at 4 Million hits .260/.350/.380 - what is his potenial worth/value of what he compares to other SS?

Boras will base his theory on a productive 2005 - .291/.359/.486 - so he'll ask for 6 million or even more.

After the Jason LaRue debacle, do you really think that the Reds would pony up the extra $$ to keep Lopez? I don't think so.

I think the Reds would choose to cut ties. This way, Bowden can deal with arb years.

There is no way the Reds cut ties - no way. Even if there is bad blood and the Reds refuse to pay they ain't cutting ties. What they would do is trade Lopez during the offseason. At which time he'd be way, way more valuable.

Look, everyone on here can agree that Lopez is going to have to move to another position. Either third or more likely second base. Therefore he is so much more valuable in the offseason because a team would trade for him knowing they were going to have all spring to work with him on the switch.

Further, the guy was an all-star just last year - if you think GM's wouldn't be all over themselves to get him in the offseason you're crazy. Omar Minaya would done backflips to acquire a latin second basemen in the offseason and would have overpaid to get him. The Reds never would have cut ties - they would have had a valuable chip if he demanded too much money. But never cut ties.

redsfan30
07-13-2006, 06:40 PM
So who gets the boot out of the bullpen to make room for Majewski and Bray?

Caveat Emperor
07-13-2006, 06:41 PM
Yeah...30 years in the game and that's the only part he values.

The numbers don't add up -- the Reds, as someone else mentioned, traded away 20% of their extra base hits.

Where are the runs coming from now, because they're barely keeping pace as it is?

You can't just gut your lineup, replace it with a .650 OPSing old man and a cult hero who has no history of success at the ML level and expect to keep up offensive production.

The bullpen help is great, but how many leads are they going to be protecting if run production drops off?

westofyou
07-13-2006, 06:41 PM
Not saying that, just saying he could see Phillips/JR/Freel/EE as adequate, especially if someone offers up a starter for Dunn.
Yes you are, you're saying the guy who signed Dunn to his current contract would devalue him after he validated his value with money.

Heath
07-13-2006, 06:41 PM
They won't trade Hughes.

Georgie is pissed. He will always sacrifice future for now.

I'd actually call the White Sox about Jr. They have a lot more to offer than the Yanks do.

pedro
07-13-2006, 06:41 PM
Tey are not going to trade Griffey or Dunn for prospects. They appear to be trying to win now. If they Trade Griffey it will be for major league players.

reds44
07-13-2006, 06:41 PM
So who gets the boot out of the bullpen to make room for Majewski and Bray?
I would do Weathers and Yan/Mercker.

It will probably be Standrdge and Yan.

westofyou
07-13-2006, 06:42 PM
The numbers don't add up -- the Reds, as someone else mentioned, traded away 20% of their extra base hits.

Where are the runs coming from now, because they're barely keeping pace as it is?

You can't just gut your lineup, replace it with a .650 OPSing old man and a cult hero who has no history of success at the ML level and expect to keep up offensive production.

The bullpen help is great, but how many leads are they going to be protecting if run production drops off?

Gut?

Denorfia takes Kearns place, Freel gets more at bats, improved bullpen might cut the need for 6 runs a game... wow what a concept.

KYRedsFan
07-13-2006, 06:42 PM
I finally make ORG, and then this happens. I quit, I really really quit this team right now.

flyer85
07-13-2006, 06:42 PM
So who gets the boot out of the bullpen to make room for Majewski and Bray?I'm guessing it will be Yan and Standridge

KronoRed
07-13-2006, 06:42 PM
So who gets the boot out of the bullpen to make room for Majewski and Bray?
Plenty of candidates

Jpup
07-13-2006, 06:43 PM
Well, we disagree on this then. My impression is that he's being regarded as one of the 5-10 unmovable prospects in baseball. Even with Steinbrenner at the helm.

he's not that good, IMO. he may become something, but he is fools gold, I think. They will trade him for either a starting pitcher or a big bat like Abreu. I think it will happen pretty soon too.

Ltlabner
07-13-2006, 06:43 PM
like in all trades, eventually, we'll find out how it turned out. I agree with the idea that Kearns (will he ever be healthy and steady) and Lopez (contract concerns long term) were overrated in our minds.

I VERY MUCH would've rather received ONE A level player for all three - but it didn't happen.

Assuming that Denorfia works out as we suspect, we haven't really lost anything offensively with this deal - maybe gained eventually.
Plus, the relievers ARE better than what we have. and Harris?.. who knows? I remember everyone saying "who are Cesar Geronimo and Joe Morgan?" I prefer to think positive on this trade!

Management couldn't bail on this year - that would be bad business. I think they did well with this trade 'cause it looks to the future (with a roll of the dice admittedly) without losing core people.
So in a nutshell, I think Kearns and Lopez were never core people.\

Excellent post. I also remember people throwing fit over Philips, Ross and Hatteburg. Not that Kriv is perfect, but what do you want from the guy. Here's a move that brings some bullpen help to town. They throw in the 90's and can be around for a while so it helps now and later.

Lopez with his poor defense and lackluster offence is sent off before he gets way too expensive in a year or two. No matter how valuable people here think he is, the rest of the league can look at his poor metrics, and bad defense just as easily as we can. I do agree with peoples concern with Clayton. However, this is a stopgap (or at least I pray it is).

I hate to see Kearns go, but people have been clammoring for Deno to play. Well....then what's your problem then? Here's your shot for him to putup or shut up.

I'm not saying this is a good or bad deal but it is funny to see the board literally shut down RZ within minutes of the announcement. People had no time to do any research, give the trade any consderation or even give Kriv a chance to explain his reasoning. Instantly it's "we suck".

Strikes Out Looking
07-13-2006, 06:43 PM
Deno to lead off and play RF tonight. First positive from the trade.

OnBaseMachine
07-13-2006, 06:43 PM
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/minors/050331dish.html

Caveat Emperor
07-13-2006, 06:43 PM
Gut?

Denorfia takes Kearns place, Freel gets more at bats, improved bullpen might cut the need for 6 runs a game... wow what a concept.

Denforfia = unproven commodity (as much as I love the kid to death)

And you still have to factor in Milton and Mays/Claussen pitching 2 nights a week.

KronoRed
07-13-2006, 06:44 PM
Deno to lead off and play RF tonight. First positive from the trade.
That is one great positive sign