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View Full Version : Whether you like the trade or not...



Wheelhouse
07-14-2006, 11:36 AM
...be happy we don't have a bozo GM who says things like this: "We see Alfonso Soriano at No. 1 and Lopez two, and they are both capable of stealing bases. If they both get on, they might double steal."

Rob Dicken
07-14-2006, 11:45 AM
LMAO.

I am guessing Bowden said that.

But, I've heard that Soriano is going over to the Angels. At least that is what was said on SportsCenter last night.

Shaggy Sanchez
07-14-2006, 11:47 AM
We do however have a GM that said on Lance's show yesterday how he was excited about 2B Brendan Harris because he went down to AAA to learn how to be a catcher. He was touted as an old school player who can play 1st, 2nd, SS, 3rd, and now catcher.

I would rather my GM be talking about two guys who are actually going to make a difference for my team playing everyday than talking about how a 25 yr old 2B went to AAA to learn to catch. What does that say about Harris as a player that he had to go learn a new position when he already could play 4 of them.

Jpup
07-14-2006, 11:47 AM
At least that is what was said on SportsCenter last night.

Then it must be true.:help:

flyer85
07-14-2006, 11:49 AM
We do however have a GM that said on Lance's show yesterday how he was excited about 2B Brendan Harris because he went down to AAA to learn how to be a catcher. He was touted as an old school player who can play 1st, 2nd, SS, 3rd, and now catcher.... and thinks that Royce Clayton actually brings something useful to a team. He is the SS version of Tony Womack.

Rob Dicken
07-14-2006, 11:53 AM
Haha

Well, Krivsky has something planned. And I am sure that it's not Royce Clayton at Shortstop. I believe, personally, that he's brewing up a trade with someone.

westofyou
07-14-2006, 11:57 AM
... and thinks that Royce Clayton actually brings something useful to a team. He is the SS version of Tony Womack.
He's the SS version of the little dutch boy's finger too... a temporary wad of toilet paper in the crack of the wall.

Shaggy Sanchez
07-14-2006, 11:57 AM
Haha

Well, Krivsky has something planned. And I am sure that it's not Royce Clayton at Shortstop. I believe, personally, that he's brewing up a trade with someone.

Interesting because in the interview he gave Lance yesterday the purpose in getting Clyton was to play SS the rest of the season. He talked about how much of an upgrade Clayton was as a defender and a team leader. He had nothing but great things to say about Clayton who is your new Cincinnati Reds SS.

NJReds
07-14-2006, 12:00 PM
Well, Krivsky has something planned.

I'm sure WK is getting a ton of calls today to see if he's still playing Santa Claus.

Jpup
07-14-2006, 12:02 PM
I have to think that Phillips will be the shortstop in 2007 with Olmedo manning 2nd base.

westofyou
07-14-2006, 12:08 PM
I have to think that Phillips will be the shortstop in 2007 with Olmedo manning 2nd base.
In ST maybe, Rey Olmedo will probably never be a FT MLB player.

gonelong
07-14-2006, 12:08 PM
He's the SS version of the little dutch boy's finger too... a temporary wad of toilet paper in the crack of the wall.

Not that I am panning the trade in whole, but Clayton's now roughly 10% of the dam on any given day.

GL

REDREAD
07-14-2006, 12:13 PM
...be happy we don't have a bozo GM who says things like this: "We see Alfonso Soriano at No. 1 and Lopez two, and they are both capable of stealing bases. If they both get on, they might double steal."

I don't get this.. Why is touting Lopez's and Soriano's speed stupid? They're both good basestealers. Bowden knows how to say what the majority of causal fans want to hear. If he gave a 10 minute statistical analysis of Lopez, most casual fans would fall asleep, even if that information is more useful. Remember, we are in the top 1% of hardcore fans, we are not the audience Bowden is talking to.

REDREAD
07-14-2006, 12:15 PM
I'm sure WK is getting a ton of calls today to see if he's still playing Santa Claus.

Yes, I can only imagine the absurd offers he's now getting for additional pitching.

westofyou
07-14-2006, 12:25 PM
Not that I am panning the trade in whole, but Clayton's now roughly 10% of the dam on any given day.

GL
I know, I know... Woody Woodward says hello, Sparky Adams too.

It's not the first time the franchise has cut their legs off by jettisoning a SS without a FT step in of quality.

One thing's for sure.. the next month should be interesting, not as awe inspriring interesting as the nightly Bull Pen explosion from earlier this season (I hope.)

Mets coming up next week and then the Astros... Early August is the Dodgers and then 7 against the Cardinals.

This team could be face down in the pool in 30 days and this trade will be the main cause in most of the autopsy, even though the patient was already terminal.

flyer85
07-14-2006, 01:06 PM
Rey Olmedo will probably never be a FT MLB player.... sounds like Royce Clayton. Olmedo would be a better option as a LH hitter in a platoon with Clayton than Clayton against RH pitching(an absolute black hole) where he sports a whopping .586 OPS in 220 ABs. Castro has a better OPS against RH pitching. This team would likely have done better with an Olmedo/Castro platoon than turning it over to Clayton.

boognish
07-14-2006, 01:44 PM
But, Narron says Clayton "plays the right way" so prepare for Aurilia and Clayton in the lineup against RHP along with their dreadful OPS.

The Reds already had a better "solution" to the SS quandary after dealing Lopez if they had not acquired Clayton, and now we the fans are going to be subjected to 220 MORE PA of .586 OPS "production" against RHP.

I would rather have a B prospect after labrum surgery than Royce Clayton...and it worries me that Narron is given another toy with which to mismanage the starting 8...especially one that played for him previously (I believe).

flyer85
07-14-2006, 01:46 PM
WK will defintely need call waiting after the deal yesterday. Every GM in the league is probably on the line today checking if the Reds need more pitching.

Guacarock
07-14-2006, 01:58 PM
...be happy we don't have a bozo GM who says things like this: "We see Alfonso Soriano at No. 1 and Lopez two, and they are both capable of stealing bases. If they both get on, they might double steal."

Better a bozo than a GM seemingly auditioning as a roadie for the Insane Clown Posse.

vaticanplum
07-14-2006, 01:58 PM
...be happy we don't have a bozo GM who says things like this: "We see Alfonso Soriano at No. 1 and Lopez two, and they are both capable of stealing bases. If they both get on, they might double steal."

:lol:

If I wasn't so hot on Scott Hatteberg right now, that'd be my new sig.

Rusty the Red
07-14-2006, 03:49 PM
I've been dropping in on this site all season and there is just one thing that I havefound to be consistant - most replies are negative! I am a life long Reds fan. I have been disappointed most of the time because the Reds manage to screw things up, but things to have turned.
I read on this site how terrible Hatteberg was. He has turned out to be a strong willed, hard working first baseman. I loved Casey, but we have missed very little from Casey at this point in the season.
Many of you trashed the move to bring in Ross. I think Ross is one of the top 10 catchers in the league so far this year - even while platooning with guys who can't hit like he does. He has a good future.
When the move was made to bring in Phillips many of you jumped all over the decision makers - Narron, Wayne K, new ownership, etc. I think Phillips may be worth building around for the future.
Now you are very down about giving up Lopez and Kearns (actually I'm most sad about Wagner - I thought maybe he would be great some day) for two middle relievers, an aging SS and two guys who may help down the road. I am not going to jump on your bandwagon. Kearns can be replaced in the lineup - Freel and last year's best player in the Reds minor league system will do fine and add an element Kearns didn't have - speed. Kearns never seemed to flourish under pressure and I had little condifence in his offensive ability. Lopez looks like a different player since last year's all star game. Shakey D and up and down at the dish. The front office thinks it has two great bullpen arms and a great defensive SS for this season.
I'm willing to wait and watch. I don't think this is a horrible trade and it was a real attempt for the Reds to get better.

Rusty the Red
07-14-2006, 03:52 PM
You guys nagged about Arroyo, Ross, Phillips and Hatteberg. Wait before jumping off a cliff. I think this may be a great trade. I'm saddest about Wagner - I had high hopes for him.

Matt700wlw
07-14-2006, 03:55 PM
Haha

Well, Krivsky has something planned. And I am sure that it's not Royce Clayton at Shortstop. I believe, personally, that he's brewing up a trade with someone.

I would think Royce Clayton is a stop gap for this season...that's it, and is better defensively than Lopez.

If it were my team, they'd transition Phillips to that position during the offseason, and thank Royce Clayton, and move on.

registerthis
07-14-2006, 04:02 PM
I've been dropping in on this site all season and there is just one thing that I havefound to be consistant - most replies are negative!

here's the problem, Rusty.

You mention players like Hatteberg, Ross, Phillips and Arroyo as examples of players whom reds fans didn't have high hopes for upon their acquisition, yet proved to be valuable players. I don't disagree--all of the players you mentioned have been pelasant surprises this year.

But the key differentiating factor between all of those players and the relievers the Reds just acquired are what it cost to get them. The Reds paid next to nothing to acquire all of the above mentioned players. The cost for Majewski and Bray--arguably not as valuable as Phillips or Arroyo--was unbelieveably steep. that's the source of the negativity over this trade.

jdoncbus
07-14-2006, 04:03 PM
Clayton can actual field and not lose 2-3 games on his miscues. Lopez had a good bat but his fielding was horrid & did not look to be getting any better. If the Reds' glarring weakness is relief pitching, I would say these two guys will improve the team tremendously. Add in the Reds' bullpen blowing 10+ saves..

flyer85
07-14-2006, 04:06 PM
If it were my team, they'd transition Phillips to that position during the offseasonWhy not transition now? SS is his natural position, he is probably more comfortable there than at 2B. The skill set is not much different, actually the skill set at 2b is more specialized as learning to turn the DP as a 2b is not a simple task to learn. Turning the DP from SS while moving toward 1b or coming across the bag is entirely natural.

flyer85
07-14-2006, 04:07 PM
Clayton can actual field and not lose 2-3 games on his miscues. Lopez had a good bat but his fielding was horrid & did not look to be getting any better. Error total Clayton 11, Lopez 14. Add to that the Clayton has a tall excellent digging 1b, the Reds decidely do not.

buckeyenut
07-14-2006, 07:50 PM
I would actually rather see Castro start every day at SS than Royce Clayton.

vic715
07-15-2006, 06:22 PM
I would actually rather see Castro start every day at SS than Royce Clayton.
Jerry Narron hit the nail on the head when he said that Royce Clayton was a good SS who knew how to play the game.With saying that look on each side of the infield and you have two guys in EE and Phillips who have raw talent and have yet to play a full year in the majors.Clayton can and will be a good veteran influence on these two.I'm quite sure he's not in the plans beyond this year but look at what he might be able to teach these two, especially Phillips if he's moved to SS next year.I say instead of knocking him give him a chance.He must be pretty good as he's always had a job as an everyday SS for the last 12 or 13 years.

GOREDSGO32
07-15-2006, 06:33 PM
I hate these fantasy team 'whiners' who just want the catchphrase on base percentage stats among others. News flash: with Kearns and Lopez we got to 1 over halfway through the season. Without them, we';ve already beaten that two games over, two days outta the ASB. I'm spinning it, yeah, but lets see wha tthe team does with these players. I heard crying about Aurilia last year too and he's turned into a solid everyday player.