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jmac
07-15-2006, 09:01 AM
just wondering what you would attribute harang's success the last two yrs to.anyone remember the game i think in 04 vs the astros and undefeated roger clemens.(i think it was the game clemens pitched).reds took like a 4-0 lead then in the 5th ,in blink of eye , it was 4-4.that was pretty common that year.also he had trouble keeping ball in yard.
last year he had breakout year sort of.this year it is continuing plus with reds success and arroyo,harang getting more pub from national media.
anyone see hawpe's comments after game last nite.something to effect"harang has one of the better fastballs in the league.it may only register 90-91 but he hides it so well it looks alot faster than that"
maybe that is a "key" to his success.

redsfanfalcon
07-15-2006, 10:31 AM
I was at that game. Castro made a diving stop at third to end it with runners in scoring position. The 3rd best game I've ever been to behind Dunn's walk off grand slam this year and Opening Day last year. Harang had 12 K's vs Colorado back in May. Bobby Cox also compared Harang to Maddux.

Maldez
07-15-2006, 10:42 AM
Harang mystifies me. He throws what looks like a very ordinary fastball over the fat of the plate, and guys continuously swing right through it.

Obviously, there's a world of things going on with a ball that we can't pick-up over TV. Whatever the hell Harang's doing to keep batters off his fast ball, just keep doin' it, Aaron!

Barbarossa
07-15-2006, 11:28 AM
Harang has really learned how to pitch the last two years. Remember when he arrived and everyone was saying a guy as big as he is should throw much harder than he does? Well, now he does. The Colorado announcers were impressed. They said he's leading the National League in strikeouts. Who would've thought two years ago? :beerme:

RedsManRick
07-15-2006, 01:10 PM
Location and a little late movement goes a long long way.

Rob Dicken
07-15-2006, 01:32 PM
Harang has really learned how to pitch the last two years. Remember when he arrived and everyone was saying a guy as big as he is should throw much harder than he does? Well, now he does. The Colorado announcers were impressed. They said he's leading the National League in strikeouts. Who would've thought two years ago? :beerme:

Exactly.

Caveat Emperor
07-15-2006, 02:13 PM
Harang mystifies me. He throws what looks like a very ordinary fastball over the fat of the plate, and guys continuously swing right through it.

Obviously, there's a world of things going on with a ball that we can't pick-up over TV. Whatever the hell Harang's doing to keep batters off his fast ball, just keep doin' it, Aaron!

There's a lot going on with Aaron Harang that helps make him successful.

First, he has a very smooth delivery that is very easily repeatable. The less motion you have winding up, the less things that can possibly go wrong with your delivery and lead to control issues. If you watch Harang pitch, his windup and throwing motions are almost effortless -- he throws his fastball the same way most pitchers play long toss. Mechanical fundamentals allow Harang control -- and everything builds off that. If you have control, batters know they're not going to be able to stand up and get a free pass, and they have to look to be aggressive in the box. When batters try to be aggressive off Harang, that puts him in control of the AB because it allows him to spot the baseball, get ahead in the count, and put hitters away with a pitch that's difficult to do anything with or a strikeout pitch.

Secondly, as a tall pitcher (6'7") he gets stronger natural downward motion on the ball because he throws over the top, from the top of an already raised mound, downward at the hitter. His pitches are never "straight" because they don't come in on a plane to the hitters, which makes the upward and downward motion of the ball much more difficult to judge. Harang gets a ton of his strikeouts on that hard slider down in the dirt. You wonder how batters can swing at a pitch that bad -- especially when they know its his out pitch -- but then you have to realize that every pitch Harang throws is moving downward and hitters don't realize how far down it's going to come (likely) until they've already started their swing.

Being tall also gives Aaron a slight edge in velocity because his legs are longer and his arm is longer than an average pitcher. It's only 60 feet, 6 inches from the pitching rubber to home plate -- but that distance is reduced based on where the pitcher ends his throwing motion. Harang's long arms and legs allow him to stride and reach further as he delivers, shaving distance off the travel time of the ball; 91-92 MPH seems a hair faster when the ball has a shorter distance to travel.

It really has been a joy watching Aaron learn to pitch, though. He changes eye levels effectively during the at-bat, giving the hitters a lot of different looks on location. He comes inside on hitters at will now because he's confident in his stuff. He may not have "ace" stuff or the makeup of a 1, but he pitches with the mentality of one, and that can carry you a good way if you've got some complementing talent.

redsfanfalcon
07-15-2006, 02:14 PM
I know we've had a discussion about this before, but please Wayne...sign him to a bit of a long term contract (that is my opinion of course).

Barbarossa
07-15-2006, 02:37 PM
That's an opinion a lot of us share. I'd like to see him signed to a three year deal with a team option. Don't believe he's had any arm problems, so a long term contract isn't a great risk. He's a horse, and should be a twenty game winner in 07' or 08'. (Hope I didn't jinx him):beerme:

jimbo
07-15-2006, 02:39 PM
Caveat Emperor......that was an excellent post. Very informative and enjoyable to read.....thanks for taking the time to write it.

Ravenlord
07-15-2006, 02:43 PM
because of Harang's height his fastball comes in more like 98 than 93.

he has a lot more movement on the fastball than you can pick up on TV.

there doesn't appear to be the slightest bit of arm action difference between his slider and fastball.

and pure conjecture on my part; but based on seeing him pitch against the Cubs the last year and a half (i've seen a lot more Cubs games than Reds games), he pours over the advance scouting reports on hitters.

and the most important thing of all, and the thing that seperates him from Brandon Claussen, he made the almighty and unrecordable mental adjustment.

Maldez
07-16-2006, 12:45 AM
Caveat Emperor......that was an excellent post. Very informative and enjoyable to read.....thanks for taking the time to write it.

Yes, indeed. Well thought-out post. Thanks.

Let me just add that Harang's probably the most composed pitcher I've ever seen. Regardless of the situation he's just calmly chewing his gum, going through his routine. Runners on base never seem to rattle Aaron.

You'll see a lot of pitchers out there looking like wild men on the mound when they get in a bind (remember Al Hrabosky?) They grunt, snarl rare back and start heavin' the pea. Not Harang. Cool as can be under all circumstances.

UC_Ken
07-16-2006, 11:12 AM
I know we've had a discussion about this before, but please Wayne...sign him to a bit of a long term contract (that is my opinion of course).
Every time he pitches the price goes up. I'd do it now before we have go to arbitration with possibly the NL's strikeout leader coming of back to back 200+ IP, sub 4.00 ERA seasons in GABP. Harang will get very expensive the longer you wait.

VR
07-16-2006, 11:59 AM
I liked the trade from the moment I saw him pitch, mostly based on Caveat's observations.

His weight loss/ conditioning have also been a large part. While composed, you could see him physically struggling during long innings or later into the game. His record shows some of his best pitching is done after he gets to 100pitches now. His striking out of the side a couple of nights ago in the 6th or 7th is a good testimonial to that as well.

Todd Coffey might still have the same spurt in him post- baby fat. :beerme:

Jr's Boy
07-16-2006, 12:25 PM
Didn't Dano trade for him?

DoogMinAmo
07-16-2006, 12:28 PM
Didn't Dano trade for him?

Nope, Leland Maddox and Captain Keyboard

dieselman44
07-16-2006, 12:53 PM
Cavaet emp, I like most of the stuff in your post but you are wrong about harang suing his long legs to shorten the distance to the plate. Harang doesnt stride far at all for how big he is which is really one of the ways the ball jumps on batters. Also i think the factor that he is 6'7'' and throws almost str8 over the top which creates a great downward plain for the ball, is is one of the reason he is so successful.

KySteveH
07-16-2006, 08:57 PM
there doesn't appear to be the slightest bit of arm action difference between his slider and fastball.
Good point. Aaron still throws the occasional curve too, and you can't tell from his motion that it's coming (to me anyway, from behind home plate.)

Jpup
07-16-2006, 09:11 PM
just wondering what you would attribute harang's success the last two yrs to.anyone remember the game i think in 04 vs the astros and undefeated roger clemens.(i think it was the game clemens pitched).reds took like a 4-0 lead then in the 5th ,in blink of eye , it was 4-4.that was pretty common that year.also he had trouble keeping ball in yard.
last year he had breakout year sort of.this year it is continuing plus with reds success and arroyo,harang getting more pub from national media.
anyone see hawpe's comments after game last nite.something to effect"harang has one of the better fastballs in the league.it may only register 90-91 but he hides it so well it looks alot faster than that"
maybe that is a "key" to his success.

it was the Houston game, but I think it was 2005. He's a very good pitcher that should be signed for many, many years.

Anyone know his exact contract status?

Ravenlord
07-16-2006, 09:48 PM
Aaron still throws the occasional curve too, and you can't tell from his motion that it's coming (to me anyway, from behind home plate.)
if you have good eyes you can see his index and middle finger crowning the ball when he throws the curve on TV. not sure if you can see it from the batter's box though, but my guess would be probably.

KySteveH
07-16-2006, 10:19 PM
if you have good eyes you can see his index and middle finger crowning the ball when he throws the curve on TV. not sure if you can see it from the batter's box though, but my guess would be probably.
You could be right...I can't ever see those things on TV. Maybe I should junk the old RCA console for one of them newfangled HD dealies.

Ravenlord
07-16-2006, 11:01 PM
You could be right...I can't ever see those things on TV. Maybe I should junk the old RCA console for one of them newfangled HD dealies.
i don't have HD...just 20/05 vision :D

it used to be better (damn internet and video games):bang: