Merged: Is Majewski Worn Out? / Possible concern about Majewski's health

[savafan]

http://redlegnation.com/2006/07/16/is-majewski-worn-out/

Bill Bray and Gary Majewski have been touted as everything from the next Nasty Boys to the cure for b.o. Everyone who’s supported this trade starts by saying that improved middle relief is essential to the Reds’ chances of contention.

“I think for us to compete in the second half, we had to upgrade the bullpen,” Krivsky said. “It’s very difficult to get quality pitchers for the back end of the game like a Bray and Majewski. We think they’re two key pieces for our bullpen.”

I’m not going to rehash what I believe - that no amount of even exceptional middle relief can make up the offense lost in Kearns and Lopez (especially if Clayton’s really going to be playing).

My question is whether Bray and Majewski are even able to contribute innings sufficient to make a difference, even if they’re pitching well. Majewski’s been beat around in his first two outings, which is what got me thinking — is he exhausted from overwork?

Majewski has been ridden pretty hard by Frank Robinson. He’s second among all relievers (both leagues) in innings pitched (56.2). He’s tied for fourth in appearances (48). According to ESPN’s stats, he’s thrown an incredible 980 pitches.

By means of comparison, Todd Coffey’s only thrown 738 pitches. Weathers is only at 683. Salomon Torres, the Major League leader in relief innings pitched, has only thrown 887. Bob Howry (48 appearances) has only thrown 767.

Last year, the Reds’ leader in relief innings was Weathers (77.2). He threw 1227 pitches over the season. At his current pace, Majewski would throw 1726. Last season, his first full one in the bigs, Majewski threw 1462 pitches.

I didn’t run numbers for everybody, but it sure as hell looks like Majewski has had a workload unlike any other reliever — he’s nearly 100 pitches (11%) higher than his nearest competitor. I’m no doctor, or even a pitching coach, but I can’t imagine that bodes well for the second half. He’s going to have to get a lot more efficient, or I don’t think he’s going to have anything left for this playoff hunt he’s going to preserve.

[MaineRed]

Weathers might throw more pitches if he was more effective.

And Coffey was better than lights out the first 1/4 or 1/3 of the season. That lowered his pitch numbers a great deal. Guys couldn't even touch him early. Not a good comparison IMO.

I don't think anyone touted this guy as a savior. Just a helper. Same with the other guy. Kearns and Lopez were no saviors, why the heck do these two have to be?

I don't think the Red win all four of those games with their old bullpen. Say what you want about the performance of Majewski so far. He has struggled. He he hasn't imploded the way all the others have. He did enough to keep the Reds in those games and they won all of them. Weathers, Merker, Hammond, White, Shackleford or one of the others probably would of stunk up the joint so bad that the Reds might of lost 1, 2 or even 3 of those games.

I'm not sure where Bray fits into this post:



My question is whether Bray and Majewski are even able to contribute innings sufficient to make a difference, even if they’re pitching well.

[Dunner44]

Interesting. Hopefully here, he won't have to be the only guy we turn to. Coffey, Weathers and Bray can help take some of the load off, as they are all reliable, especially Coffey's rubber arm if he recovers from the closer experiment. If we don't have to use Majik that often that will be a great sign that our SP is going deep, and/or we can afford to use lesser relievers b/c we have a large lead.

p.s. savafan, you given up on that arroyo avatar already? I choose to blame your ditching his pic (for the guy who blew the save none the less) for Bronson not getting his 10th win last night. ;)

[redlegs2370]

If I recall when Bowden was GM in Cincinnati the bullpen was very good for the first half of the season but the arms seemed to get tired. Sullivan and Williamson come to mind.

The Nats starters not getting deep into games reminds me of the Reds starters during Bowdens tenure with the Reds.

[keeganbrick]

What killer offense was Lopez providing exactly (he had some SB, but other than that)? In Majewski's first appearance he gave up some bloop hits too. I'm not all that worried about it, I think our bullpen will have a good 2nd half.

[Nugget]

I think you can say that about the whole Nats pitching staff. Probably the philosophy in general. Good hitting talent but fodder in the pitching ranks.

[Phhhl]

Scott Sullivan used to rack up some innings on this club, but that was with a roatation full of five inning pitchers. I would like to think Coffee settles in now as the true setup guy, with Majewski around to handle the sixth and seventh innings, as needed. Arroyo, Harang and even Milton are pitching fairly deep into games, so while I think Majewski will still be leaned on quite heavily I don't think he will be burdened with the load he was getting in Washington. Armas and Patterson have missed tons of time this year, and Hernandez has not been effective. Ortiz isn't an efficient pitcher, so I think all of this contributes a lot to those numbers. I think there will be many appearances where Majewski and Bray will be called upon to get an out or two in the seventh inning... not three or five.

[KoryMac5]

Robinson didn't have a ton of options coming out of the bullpen, so he had to ride magic in order to keep his team in contention. This trade makes the Reds bullpen depth an asset. I think Magic will be used properly and become even more effective as time goes on.

[Jr's Boy]

Well we had a workhorse in the pen before by the name of Scott Sullivan,he's young so this guy should be ok.Plus he has that old school reliever 70's look going.

[PuffyPig]

Magic has piched very well in his first 2 Reds games. His DIPs ERA over those 2 games is 0.16. Don't let some bloop hits and a BAPIP approaching 1.000 fool you into thinking he's simply not the victim of bad luck.

[Ravenlord]

Magic has piched very well in his first 2 Reds games. His DIPs ERA over those 2 games is 0.16. Don't let some bloop hits and a BAPIP approaching 1.000 fool you into thinking he's simply not the victim of bad luck.
i'm so glad someone finally said that.

i also think that if his workload becomes slightly reduced (please God let it) you'll see a rise in his K rate to over 7...and his walk rate decline a little bit.

[gm]

Majewski also pitched in the World baseball classic back in March and was complaining of arm fatigue as early as May (overheard during Reds-Nat's broadcast)

[REDREAD]

I'm a little bit concerned about how hard Majewski was used in Washington.
Robinson really rode him hard.

Last year, he made 79 appearances and pitched 86 IP (plus he may have logged innings in the minors, because the records show he was optioned to AAA on Mar 29 and recalled Apr 18).

This season, he's had 48 appearances, and 56.2 IP. That probably puts him on a pace close to 100 IP (unless the Reds slow down in using him, which is probably unlikely, since they paid a steep price and want to use him in the pennant race).

The guy has already had tenditous this year (see quoted articles below).

Even though I don't like this trade, I want it to work out. Bowden has traded damaged goods before, so I'm a bit nervous that Majewski's arm might fall off in the near future.






Gary Majewski: Bothered by Shoulder Tendinitis


http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=rotowire-aryajewskiotheredbyh&prov=rotowire&type=lgns

RotoWire.com Staff - RotoWire.com
Monday, May 8, 2006
Update: Majewski has been diagnosed with a mild case of tendinitis in his shoulder, the Washington Post reports.

Recommendation: The Nationals pitching staff is getting hit hard by injuries once again. Majewski says he first felt that something was wrong two or three weeks ago. "I came back from the [World Baseball Classic] and fired it up pretty quick," he said. "The first week of the season, [I] threw quite a bit, and tried to go too hard too quick. Just like anything else -- you overwork it and it's not ready, something's going to go wrong." Trainer Tim Abraham said that Majewski can pitch if necessary, but expect him to be used sparingly in the short term.




Nationals | Majewski experiencing rotator cuff issues
Sun, 7 May 2006 22:17:33 -0700

Washington.Nationals.MLB.com reports Washington Nationals RP Gary Majewski (shoulder) has missed the last three games because of rotator cuff tendonitis. Majewski said he has had the problem off and on for much of this season and that might explain why he hasn't pitched very well.

[Spitball]

I had similar concerns at the time of the deal, but concerns are not reality. I'm going to wait for more evidence before I get too concerned.

[butlerbulldogs]

what is "tenditous?" never heard of it :confused:

[ghettochild]

what is "tenditous?" never heard of it :confused:
Inflammation of a tendon

[savafan]

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48699

[RBA]

I thought Bowden has traded for "damage goods" before. Not traded them away.

[Aronchis]

Maj's velocity still looks pretty strong, though his location has been crummy, possibly indicating fatigue ala Todd Coffey who was driven into the ground in April and May.

[kxblue]

what is "tenditous?" never heard of it :confused:
I believe it is very close to the english word tendinitis:)

Btw, I too share redread's concern and feel that we should attempt to use Bray/Coffey/Magic at about the same rates as all need their rest.

[NewEraReds]

Maj's velocity still looks pretty strong, though his location has been crummy, possibly indicating fatigue ala Todd Coffey who was driven into the ground in April and May.
hes never had control or the ability to get lefties out, do to the lack of control or a 3rd pitch. nothing new, which is why i wondered about this move

[traderumor]

I'm sure in the meetings of the minds that a concern for acquiring Majewski's usage never entered the discussion. RZ finding another blind spot of the doofuses in the front office.

[princeton]

excellent post, savafan. my guess is that Majewski will be fine this year, but has a very good chance of being ineffective in 2007 due to overwork this season.

[REDREAD]

I thought Bowden has traded for "damage goods" before. Not traded them away.

Brantley is probably the best example of Bowden fudging the truth when making a trade. I believe Walt Jocketty of the Cards was so upset, that he said he'd never trade with Bowden again.

[REDREAD]

I'm sure in the meetings of the minds that a concern for acquiring Majewski's usage never entered the discussion. RZ finding another blind spot of the doofuses in the front office.

:rolleyes: I guess we're not supposed to question anything the great Wayne does. I like the guy as a GM, isn't it a valid point to bring up?

[OesterPoster]

I'm a long time lurker over here, but I finally registered yesterday. I borrowed the following posting from another board, as I think it's relevant to our discussion of Majewski. This poster claims to be Majewski's cousin, and I find little reason to doubt her legitmacy.


Re: Is Majewski Running on Fumes? Nice to see this.
I was amazed that they pitched him 2 days in a row. Frank would do that all the time, and I am glad you looked at the stats.
If you go back and look at his stats game by game, on games with 1 or 2 days rest, he did excellent, very rarely allowing a base runner......but frank would pitch him 2-3, even 4 days in a row at times...it was ridiculous.
It's one of the reasons I think he's happy with this trade. I'm not saying he was unhappy in DC, just that he was overworked.
Even if you're winning, you can't do that to any pitcher.

As for injuries, he was injured for the first time in his life (literally) at the beginning of this season. And I blame it on Frank Robinson.....he got back from the WBC, which killed him and cordero for the first month of the season, and then frank kept pushing and pushing him. He got tendonitis, and sat for about 1.5 weeks and was good as new. He's pitched near these speeds for about 10 years now, his high school coach was awesome and taught him how to preserve his arm on & off season and stay healthy.

Gary works well under pressure, and even better when he's mad.

Next time he allows a walk, watch the speed on his fastball.
I can't wait to get the mlb package and watch each game. We look a lot alike, but even more so when we're mad. My husband laughs everytime we see gary on national tv and mad lol. Says he hates that look when i get it.

When he was traded to the Dodgers in the minors, he did horrible, look back at his stats for that time.....it wsan't right and he wasnt happy with the trade. He was thrilled with the trade to the expos, and he did well. He is very happy with this trade as well.
I hope he gets things together, which he normally does. Somebody call Narron and tell him not to be like Frank. :D

Glad to see you guys looking at the stats. But even so, he should do better than he has the last 2 games, no excuses in baseball. One mistake can make or break the game, period...and that's the way Gary looks at it as well.

[NJReds]

I believe it is very close to the english word tendinitis:)

Btw, I too share redread's concern and feel that we should attempt to use Bray/Coffey/Magic at about the same rates as all need their rest.

With a little Mercker thrown in. He's been solid lately.