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View Full Version : Wagner lighting it up at New Orleans



kheidg-
07-17-2006, 01:30 AM
Didn't see this posted anywhere. His first appearance with the Zephyrs. 1 IP, 4 H, 4 ER and his ERA stands at 36.00. Also see his soul mate Brandon Larson batting an impressive .238 with the Zephyrs as well.

Cedric
07-17-2006, 01:33 AM
Bowden loves names. Freakin loves um.

The media does also.

Can't wait to see how this one pans out.

reds44
07-17-2006, 01:38 AM
Lopez, Kearns, and Wagner are all off to bad starts. I am not exactly happy to see it, but the more I hear about us gettin ripped off, the more it makes me mad. Eventually it is just human nature to turn on the 3 guys.

kheidg-
07-17-2006, 01:50 AM
I'm not really rooting against the three or anything. I'd especially like to see Kearns do good (he's on my fantasy squad). I am a bit surprised that Bowden wouldn't have started Wagner in AA right after the trade because he likely won't take the demotion too well if it happens.

keeganbrick
07-17-2006, 01:56 AM
I dont think Lopez has had a hit since he got to Washington, also a fielding error.

reds44
07-17-2006, 01:57 AM
I dont think Lopez has had a hit since he got to Washington, also a fielding error.
He has 1. I think he has left something like 20 on base in 3 games though.

Lopez was one of my favorite Reds, and I want him to do well.

MrCinatit
07-17-2006, 02:04 AM
If I am not mistaken, Kearns only has one hit, as well.

keeganbrick
07-17-2006, 02:05 AM
He has 1. I think he has left something like 20 on base in 3 games though.

Lopez was one of my favorite Reds, and I want him to do well.
Yea, when I checked out the box scores for the Nationals games Kearns and Lopez both left an incredible amount of runners on base.

RedsManRick
07-17-2006, 12:03 PM
I honestly get the feeling that as much as we demonize Bowden, if any of us were suddenly thrust in to the GM job, our moves would look a whole lot like his. It gives you a different respect for those GMs who don't seem to make flashy moves but seem to build winning teams nonetheless.

ChatterRed
07-18-2006, 03:29 AM
Bowden is a tool. The worst GM the Reds ever had behind Dick Wagner. He has no patience with prospects, especially pitching. That is why the Reds minor leagues were depleted of pitching.

Didn't surprise me that we picked his pocket and stole his best pitching prospects.

cincyinco
07-18-2006, 04:47 AM
Bowden is a tool. The worst GM the Reds ever had behind Dick Wagner. He has no patience with prospects, especially pitching. That is why the Reds minor leagues were depleted of pitching.

Didn't surprise me that we picked his pocket and stole his best pitching prospects.

Uh.. wait. Not that I hated the trade or anything, but we didn't get his best pitching prospects. Clint Everts comes to mind, Collin Balester(tho he's having a down year), and possibly even Mike Hinckley were all at one time, or still are, thought of more highly than bray or thompson.

B
07-18-2006, 08:26 AM
I do get a kick out of Bowden. Especially when we swept them early in the year, and he said , "It looks like their winning with the guys I drafted(Kearns and Dunn)".

Yeah, well Jim, what about your other 10 first round picks ?

TeamBoone
07-18-2006, 02:19 PM
I believe Lopez hit a HR yesterday.

It's a whole new ballgame for them, in every sense of the word. They'll be fine when they settle in. Also, being in last place vs being in the hunt might alter their intensity a bit... even if they don't consciously realize it.

I absolutely hate that Kearns was included in this deal. He played for a bad Reds squad for years and deserved the success they're enjoying this season; heck, he contributed to it.

Willy
07-19-2006, 08:52 PM
They also went from playing in a band box(GABP), to playing at Yellowstone(RFK).

jimbo
07-20-2006, 03:21 AM
I dont think Lopez has had a hit since he got to Washington, also a fielding error.

Lopez has had 3 errors for the Nationals since joining the team.

kheidg-
07-20-2006, 01:02 PM
In case anyone noticed, this thread was supposed to be about Wagner and not Kearns/Lopez - there are about 100 other threads dedicated to them.

As far as Wagner is concerned, he pitched two scoreless innings last night and his line for the Zephyrs is now


Team From To W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO
NO 07/14 07/19 0 0 9.00 3 0 0 0 0 4.0 6 4 4 0 2 1

princeton
07-20-2006, 01:07 PM
since he made the majors so quickly, Wagner's going to get one more minor league option-- is that correct?

toledodan
07-20-2006, 01:38 PM
i think once you make the majors you have 3 option years.

princeton
07-20-2006, 01:49 PM
i think once you make the majors you have 3 option years.

my recollection is that your team can get a fourth option if you make the majors within about three years.

I'm not sure why I have this recollection.

Doc. Scott
07-20-2006, 02:40 PM
i think once you make the majors you have 3 option years.

JaxRed will be along at some point to lay it all out, but I think it's actually from the point you're put on the 40-man roster.

princeton
07-20-2006, 02:52 PM
all right, you made me look it up. Here's BA's take

How do options work?

When a player is added to a 40-man roster for the first time, the major league team is permitted three optional assignments of his contract, or three "option years." This gives them the option to assign that player to the minor leagues without requiring him to clear waivers. For each season thereafter in which the player is assigned to a minor league team, one option is used up.

When a player is out of options, he can still be assigned to the minor leagues, but first he must clear waivers.

A player can receive a fourth option if he has less than five seasons of pro experience. Draftees who immediately sign a major league contract will qualify unless they reach the majors quickly and stick there. Otherwise, they'll have their three options exhausted after their first three years in pro ball. A season is defined as any year in which the player spends 90 days on the active list. Short-season and Rookie leagues don't last 90 calendar days, so a player assigned to those leagues for an entire year won't accrue a season of pro experience. Also if a player has a long-term injury, he usually won't be credited for a season that year. (The exception is if he goes on the disabled list after spending 60 days on an active list, in which case the DL time counts as service time.)


if I'm looking at WMP's career correctly, he signed a major league contract in '99 and was optioned in '99, '00,'01 and '02.

REDREAD
07-20-2006, 05:22 PM
Really, Wagner was a good thing for Bowden to ask for. Bowden knew that Wagner was buried in AAA here and the Reds didn't value him. Of course, the Reds loss of confidence in Wagner was justified, don't get me wrong.

Getting Wagner thrown in the deal is like Washington getting a free #1 draft pick, because Wagner still has potential to capture the magic. In contrast, the guys we got thrown in are a potential utility man and a 20 year old in single A who already has had Doc Hollywood cut him up.

I doubt that Wagner rebounds and becomes an impact player, but it was a smart move to ask for him. It's analogous to getting Phillips on the cheap. Naturally, the majority of these type of moves do not work out, but it's a good gamble to take.

princeton
07-20-2006, 06:35 PM
Getting Wagner thrown in the deal is like Washington getting a free #1 draft pick

no, it's not. That's like saying getting Brandon Larson is getting a free no. 1 pick

Benihana
07-20-2006, 07:02 PM
ryan wagner = cj nitkowski = ariel prieto

wojo1025
07-21-2006, 10:34 PM
Faces on the Field: Ryan Wagner
Big right-hander 'relieved' to get fresh start with new organization
By Kevin Yanik / MLB.com
07/21/06

METAIRIE, La. -- Don't mess with a young pitcher's mechanics. That may be a matter of debate among coaches, but it's the gospel to at least one prospect.

It didn't take the Cincinnati Reds long to start adjusting reliever Ryan Wagner's mechanics and pitch repertoire after they made him the 14th overall selection in the 2003 First-Year Player Draft. Based on his early success, the Reds rushed him to the big leagues that same season, making the 6-foot-4, 225-pound right-hander the first player from that draft class to reach the Majors.

The early progress did not continue, though, and the Reds cut ties with Wagner on July 13, when they traded him to the Washington Nationals along with Austin Kearns and Felipe Lopez as part of an eight-player deal.

"[The Reds] were trying to make me do a bunch of things that kind of took me out of my element, and took me away from the pitcher that I was," Wagner says. "They tried to make me something that I wasn't."

For example, Wagner never got completely comfortable slinging some of the pitches the Reds had him work into his arsenal.

"When you're not 100 percent committed to whatever you're throwing," Wagner says, "that can hurt you."

Wagner, 24, doesn't have to worry about that anymore. No more funky arm slots. No further disagreement on pitch selection.

At Triple-A New Orleans, he'll be able to pitch his way.

"We're going to work on a few things," Wagner says. "They want me to throw my game. They want me to throw how I want to throw. As a pitcher, you can't ask for anything more than that."

New Orleans pitching coach Steve McCatty agrees. Slight mechanical adjustments aren't necessarily problematic, but a mechanical overhaul can cause trouble for any up-and-coming pitcher.

"[Wagner's] got to feel comfortable with what he's throwing," McCatty says, "otherwise you're not going to get the best out of him."

The Reds probably tried to get the best out of Wagner too quickly. He spent parts of three seasons in the Majors, where he compiled a combined 8-4 record, 4.69 ERA and 101 strikeouts over 119 innings.

Not bad numbers, except that his ERA rose each season. In his rookie season in '03, he allowed just four earned runs over 21 2/3 innings for an ERA of 1.66. In '04, Wagner finished with a 4.70 ERA (51 2/3 IP) and had a career-high 6.11 ERA (45 2/3 IP) last year.

This season, Wagner was more or less duplicating his 2005 effort with Triple-A Louisville, where he completed the first half with 28 strikeouts and a 6.34 ERA in 38 1/3 innings (35 appearances).

Being encouraged to work with an assortment of arm slots might be at the root of Wagner's results. Nationals General Manager Jim Bowden wants Wagner to pitch the way he did during a successful career at the University of Houston.

"I talked to Jim, who drafted him in Cincinnati, and he wants [Wagner] to go back to that arm slot," McCatty says. "There are some videos that we are going to get, and I kind of remember where it was vaguely, and we'll just let him go back and be comfortable where that slot was for him.

"Wherever that may be is where he might be successful."

Some pitchers can use a variety of arm slots successfully. Hall of Famer Luis Tiant and Mets right-hander Pedro Martinez have proven that approach can work. Others simply need to pitch in the slot that feels most comfortable. Wagner might be one of those players. And he still has a few pitches -- particularly a sinker -- that impress McCatty.

"His sink drops like a brick," says McCatty, who watched Wagner toss a bullpen session the day after the Nationals acquired him. "It's really heavy."

McCatty will let Wagner toss that sinker, blaze a chest-high fastball and tinker with a change up -- using the arm slot that feels natural to him. Otherwise, how else would Wagner rediscover the form that made him a first-round pick three seasons ago?

"If somebody has the conviction to make a pitch, I'll let him do it," McCatty says. "Right or wrong, you have to see if they can do it. The best way you learn is not by your successes so much as by your failures."

A reinvigorated Wagner is hoping to prove that conventional wisdom correct in short order.

Kevin Yanik is an associate reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of the National Association of Professional Baseball Leagues or its clubs.

fearofpopvol1
07-21-2006, 11:04 PM
I'd be interested to see if it'd help him if he was sent down to AA too. Talk about a demotion though...The bigs to AAA to AA. That's not something you see everyday.

REDREAD
07-28-2006, 02:46 PM
no, it's not. That's like saying getting Brandon Larson is getting a free no. 1 pick

No, because Wagner actually had a little bit of success in the majors.

Unless Wagner is hurt, he has potential to be a useful bullpen arm.

In contrast, I knew when I saw Larson playing in AA that he would never be a good major league player. First of all, his defense totally sucked. ( Konerko played a better 3b, IMO, at least based on what I saw. ) Therefore, he'd have to hit enough to move to LF or 1b in order to stick in the majors, and I didn't think that was going to happen.

princeton
07-28-2006, 02:58 PM
Wagner's had one good year out of the last 25. Even Larson hits better than that.

he's also almost out of options. Which makes working with him like buying an old Corvette-- do I want to spend time restoring it only to see it driven away by my wife's divorce attorney?

kheidg-
07-29-2006, 03:02 AM
Well, he certainly hasn't been getting it done at AAA, although i suppose it has been a bit of improvement.


Ryan Wagner: Individual Stats (Pitching)
Team From To W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO
L'Ville 04/06 07/13 1 3 6.34 35 0 0 0 1 38.1 55 29 27 3 14 28
NO 07/14 07/27 0 0 5.14 5 0 0 0 0 7.0 7 4 4 0 2 4

Blue
07-29-2006, 04:44 AM
The guy has thrown six scoreless innings after his first appearance for New Orleans.

RBA
07-29-2006, 10:02 AM
The guy has thrown six scoreless innings after his first appearance for New Orleans.


Maybe the Reds brain trust is too smart for their own good. Never mess with a good thing. Six scoreless innings is a good start, but as they say small sample size. Jury is still out.

CTA513
07-30-2006, 06:49 PM
I seen on the Nationals board that Wagner was called up and is supposed to be with the Nationals tomorrow.

tomred
07-30-2006, 07:44 PM
I for one wish him the best

NJReds
07-30-2006, 08:47 PM
Hope he finds success this time around.

REDREAD
07-31-2006, 02:20 PM
Wagner's had one good year out of the last 25. Even Larson hits better than that.

he's also almost out of options. Which makes working with him like buying an old Corvette-- do I want to spend time restoring it only to see it driven away by my wife's divorce attorney?

One of Larson's biggest problems was that he was a horrible fielder, so even those "good" minor league seasons weren't that good.

Wagner can be optioned next year too, right? And after that he can be carried as the 12th pitcher if need be, until Washington gives up on him.

It's a good gamble, particularly if reports are true that the Reds coaching made him change a bunch of stuff and make him pitch in a way that was not confortable to him. Much better gamble than those two minor leaguers we got (Harris and Thompson?)