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Redsnake
07-17-2006, 08:13 AM
Sorry if this has been talked about before.
First I like to say that I liked the Kearns/Lopez trade. Adding bullpen arms and giving Denorfia a chance to play everyday was a good move. Add in the money saved in payroll and this trade was great. Especially if they turn that money into a quality starting pitcher in 2007.

Now finally my point, the only thing that I questioned in this trade is, who is the future SS for the Reds?
Olmeda isn't it, even though I do like him in spot duty.
Clayton will be gone and is aging.
Castro...please no!!
Aurilla is getting old.
Phillips is the 2nd baseman period.

Is there a SS in the farm system they are high on? Any good young SS in the 2007 free agents market? Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

zombie-a-go-go
07-17-2006, 08:18 AM
Phillips is the SS of the future, I think.

princeton
07-17-2006, 08:20 AM
Phillips is the 2nd baseman period.

why?

I think that the Reds don't want to stress Phillips' offensive breakthrough by forcing him to play SS as well, but that's just this year. Unless they're more interested in Rey Olmedo than they've shown, my guess is that the job belongs to BP in 2007.

RFS62
07-17-2006, 08:26 AM
why?

I think that the Reds don't want to stress Phillips' offensive breakthrough by forcing him to play SS as well, but that's just this year. Unless they're more interested in Rey Olmedo than they've shown, my guess is that the job belongs to BP in 2007.



That's my guess too.

MartyFan
07-17-2006, 09:22 AM
I think Phillips is the SS in 2007...Maybe Freel or Olmeda at 2B.

toledodan
07-17-2006, 09:30 AM
phillips came up as a SS plus has a great arm as well. i wouldn't hesitate putting him over there to start NEXT SEASON.

redsmetz
07-17-2006, 09:31 AM
I think there's a lot that can happen between now and the start of the next season. Obviously the internal possiblities are aren't great and there is the FA market. It's also possible they could trade for someone for either position that could be the 2B/SS of the future.

Highlifeman21
07-17-2006, 09:32 AM
Sorry if this has been talked about before.
First I like to say that I liked the Kearns/Lopez trade. Adding bullpen arms and giving Denorfia a chance to play everyday was a good move. Add in the money saved in payroll and this trade was great. Especially if they turn that money into a quality starting pitcher in 2007.

Now finally my point, the only thing that I questioned in this trade is, who is the future SS for the Reds?
Olmeda isn't it, even though I do like him in spot duty.
Clayton will be gone and is aging.
Castro...please no!!
Aurilla is getting old.
Phillips is the 2nd baseman period.

Is there a SS in the farm system they are high on? Any good young SS in the 2007 free agents market? Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Funny you say that seeing as Phillips was the top SS prospect in the Indians organization, not to mention all of baseball for awhile.

The smartest move for the Reds organization is to plug Phillips into SS, and then find a 2B solution. Right now, we have that solution: Ryan Freel.

It's a shame Narron will never write that DP combo on a lineup card together, unless at the 4 spot you see "Aurillia - 3B".

Mitri
07-17-2006, 09:34 AM
phillips should be the starting ss tomorrow. and, of course, is obviously the ss of the future for this team.

Redsnake
07-17-2006, 10:10 AM
I thought I heard that during Wayne Krivsky's press confrence a reporter asked if Phillips would take over at SS with Lopez gone. His answer was that Brandon Phillips is the Reds 2nd baseman...period.
Also does anyone think that moving him back to SS (where he was suppose to be the future All-Star) will cause him to resort to the player the Expos and Indians got rid of?

willarious
07-17-2006, 10:19 AM
Also does anyone think that moving him back to SS (where he was suppose to be the future All-Star) will cause him to resort to the player the Expos and Indians got rid of?


No, I don't. What BP really needed was a change of scenery and a great chance to play everyday. He found that here, and I actually believe putting him at SS might even make him a better overall player. If Brandon played SS and batted first or second beginning next year, I think everyone here would be happy.

Highlifeman21
07-17-2006, 10:44 AM
No, I don't. What BP really needed was a change of scenery and a great chance to play everyday. He found that here, and I actually believe putting him at SS might even make him a better overall player. If Brandon played SS and batted first or second beginning next year, I think everyone here would be happy.


1st or 2nd in the lineup?

What even remotely suggests that he won't become an enormous out making machine at those spots?

Sporting a robust career OBP of .287 screams put me at the top of the lineup. Even if he were to repeat his 2006 OBP of .345, it still doesn't merit his name on the lineup card in the 1st or 2nd slot.

5th, 6th, or 7th is a dish best served for Brandon Phillips.

The SS he should be.

westofyou
07-17-2006, 11:00 AM
Phillips is the 2nd baseman period.

Narron said this about Phillips:


“There’s no doubt in my mind that if we worked him over there, he’d be a pretty good shortstop,” Narron said. “Who knows? His future might be at shortstop.”

Add that to the article in the locals talking about "Clayton" as the professor speaks pretty loud to me about what they thought about Lopez's ability to morph into a infield leader, with a young Edwin Encarnacion at 3rd (when not injured), Phillips at 2nd the Reds had prior to the all-star break had perhaps the youngest infield since the sixties. In this youthful infield the team was seeing a healthy number of errors, and mental mistakes as well. In his second full year at shortstop Lopez had already heard the questions of range, and there was already talk of flip-flopping him and Phillips. This coupled by last years signing of Rich Aurilia, this past winters signing of Tony Womack and the recent acquisition of Juan Castro points to the current and past Reds brass wanting a former (or vet) shortstop to run the infield, even if Lopez was the shortstop.

A EE/Phillips/Harris/ Dunn IF could be possible next year, that's cheap, young and fast.

dabvu2498
07-17-2006, 11:07 AM
A EE/Phillips/Harris/ Dunn IF could be possible next year, that's cheap, young and fast.
Replace Harris with Olmedo and Dunn with Votto and I think you've got it.

jimbo
07-17-2006, 11:21 AM
The smartest move for the Reds organization is to plug Phillips into SS, and then find a 2B solution. Right now, we have that solution: Ryan Freel.


I agree with this completely. My only big issue with the outcomes of this trade is that Phillips is not being moved to SS with Freel taking over at 2B. Normally, I would agree that switching posititions during mid-season is not a good idea. I don't see the problem here though. Phillips has played plenty of innings at SS and I can't see him having much of an adjustment period if he did move. He seems to be a very versatile player who isn't affected by change, being in a different positition in the lineup everday is an example of that. IMO, it would strengthen the infield and it puts Freel in the leadoff position as an everyday player.

Having said that though, I don't see it happening. Narron likes Freel too much in that versatile utility role.

Heath
07-17-2006, 11:24 AM
Replace Harris with Olmedo and Dunn with Votto and I think you've got it.

Uh, no.

Votto needs a year in AAA. Dunn should be at first next year.

woy's correct - except, I'd rather see Freel at 2b.

Barbarossa
07-17-2006, 11:27 AM
Replace Harris with Olmedo and Dunn with Votto and I think you've got it.

Well almost. I like Olmedo over Harris and Dunn is going to be a fixture in left for years to come. Votto may not be ready yet. I'd look for a repeat of Aurilia and Hatteberg at first. Especially if the Reds continue to do well and make it into post season play.:beerme:

dabvu2498
07-17-2006, 11:39 AM
Votto needs a year in AAA. Dunn should be at first next year.

And then back to LF when Votto is ready???

princeton
07-17-2006, 11:54 AM
Narron said this about Phillips:



Add that to the article in the locals talking about "Clayton" as the professor speaks pretty loud to me about what they thought about Lopez's ability to morph into a infield leader, with a young Edwin Encarnacion at 3rd (when not injured), Phillips at 2nd the Reds had prior to the all-star break had perhaps the youngest infield since the sixties. In this youthful infield the team was seeing a healthy number of errors, and mental mistakes as well. In his second full year at shortstop Lopez had already heard the questions of range, and there was already talk of flip-flopping him and Phillips. This coupled by last years signing of Rich Aurilia, this past winters signing of Tony Womack and the recent acquisition of Juan Castro points to the current and past Reds brass wanting a former (or vet) shortstop to run the infield, even if Lopez was the shortstop.

A EE/Phillips/Harris/ Dunn IF could be possible next year, that's cheap, young and fast.

aren't you arguing two different things in those two paragraphs? Or do you think that Phillips will be able to run the infield after this season?

me, I haven't figured out what the Reds think about first base or second. There were whispers about Votto's swing, though not by the current FO. They didn't seem to like Dunn in the IF. Harris's acquisition may mean that they don't see a definite in the system. I figure that they'll keep acquiring and hope someone sticks.

remember when Narron said that BP wouldn't be able to beat out Womack/Freel/Aurilia and would only be FeLo's backup at SS, plus play a little late-inning CF?

Jpup
07-17-2006, 11:55 AM
Uh, no.

Votto needs a year in AAA. Dunn should be at first next year.

woy's correct - except, I'd rather see Freel at 2b.

why does Votto need to play in AAA for a year?

flyer85
07-17-2006, 12:09 PM
phillips came up as a SS plus has a great arm as well. i wouldn't hesitate putting him over there to start NEXT SEASON.seeing as SS is his natural position and Clayton is a black hole offensively and a zero defensively, I would put Phillips at SS right now.

redsmetz
07-17-2006, 04:09 PM
why does Votto need to play in AAA for a year?

Thus far, it appears WK's philosophy is "one step at a time", no jumping ahead, let the player learn and succeed at each level. Now I've not heard that explicitly, but it's appeared to be that way. I think in the long term, despite the anxiousness of fans, this will better service the organization. Look at the long term is the new mantra.

KronoRed
07-17-2006, 04:28 PM
Why move Dunn to 1st for 1 year and block Votto?

We all know the scrappy one (Aurilia) will be back next year, let him handle 1st till Votto is ready

dabvu2498
07-17-2006, 04:31 PM
Why move Dunn to 1st for 1 year and block Votto?

We all know the scrappy one (Aurilia) will be back next year, let him handle 1st till Votto is ready
Unless there's a reasonably priced alternative (a 2007 Scott Hatteberg model), I'm inclined to agree.

Redhook
07-17-2006, 05:29 PM
I really wish they'd try Phillips at SS a few times later this season. He's played it enough in his life, he won't forget how to do it. Then we could atleast have a decent lineup with Freel or maybe RA playing second. That's alot better than Castro or Clayton, IMO. I believe Phillips will play SS next year and second base could be another circus like it was pre-Phillips this year.

I really don't think we'll see Dunn at first for a few reasons:
1) The front office was contemplating early this year, then they suddenly nixed the idea.
2) Votto looks to be the 1B of the future. No later than 2008, maybe some in 2007?
3) We could use Hatte next year again at first. Not great, but not horrible either. Hatte has been pretty solid.
4) Could you imagine Dunn playing first for a year? I just can't fathom how many errors he'd have over there. He's making tons of outfield errors and he only touches the ball a handful of times a game. I just don't want him having the opportunity to catch the ball 15 or so times a game. I think it'd be a complete disaster. Atleast in left field his errors usually lead to guys getting extra bases, but at first I think it'd lead to alot of extra outs for the opposing teams. Not a good idea. Keep him in left field.

Blue
07-17-2006, 05:44 PM
Well, this thread has dueling topics, but I'll try to give my piece on both of them:

I like the idea of moving Phillips to SS and having Freel at 2B on a regular basis. My only problem with this is that I think Phillips has shown that he can bring a lot to the table defensivley at 2B, and he won't necessarily be able to do that at SS. I can't count the number short shovels and barehanded plays he has made at 2B. You can't really do that from SS. That would be the best configuration offensively, without a doubt.

As far as SS of the future, there are other possibilities. Adam Rosales and Milton Loo were draftees last year. Rosales has suffered some setbacks and Loo just started playing, so who knows how long it will be before they are major leaguers, if ever. There is also Chris Valaika and Justin Turner, draftees from this year. Turner has been compared to Dustin Pedroia of the Red Sox organization. Both are supposed to have a lot of defensive potential, while Turner has great speed and a knack for getting on base, while Valaika has more pop. Problem is, Turner will probably be a 2B, and the jury is still out on Valaika. They're also just starting their professional careers, and are a long way from the majors, if they are to make it at all.

As for Votto, I hope he's not part of the organization's long term plans, because Dunn needs to be the 1B by 2008. He just needs to dedicate himself to switching positions, and given his athleticism, I think he can do it. That will clear the way for a better defensive outfield, while not sacrificing Dunn's offense.

redsmetz
07-17-2006, 06:04 PM
While Dunn is leading all OF'ers in errors, he's only two ahead of Soriano and Guerrero, not shabby company. I'd hardly characterize that as making "tons of errors". Take out his first week and he's doing okay.


Player TEAM POS G GS INN TC PO A E DP PB SB CS RF FPCT
1. A Dunn CIN OF 89 89 762.2 176 162 5 9 0 --- --- --- 1.97 .949
2. A Soriano WSH OF 91 91 795.2 200 180 12 8 4 --- --- --- 2.17 .960
3. J Francoeur ATL OF 92 92 816.1 193 181 5 7 2 --- --- --- 2.05 .964
4. V Guerrero LAA OF 81 81 685.2 185 173 5 7 1 --- --- --- 2.34 .962
5. S Podsednik CWS OF 82 75 686.0 157 149 2 6 0 --- --- --- 1.98 .96

Redhook
07-17-2006, 06:45 PM
He is doing o.k. in left which is why I think he should stay there. Tons of errors might have overstated it a bit, but 9 errors is alot for an outfielder, and maybe some would say it is a ton for an outfielder. Maybe it isn't that much, but if you include the balls he should be catching, some goof ups that haven't counted as errores, and the amount of balls that are bobbled that don't count as errors because the runner didn't advance then you'd have alot more errors. All I'm trying to say is, I think Dunn needs to stay in left because he will probably continue to be a poor outfielder, which is fine, but I don't want him to have the responsibility of being the first baseman. Too many opportunities to drop the ball at first base.