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View Full Version : No love from Foxsports.com's Dayn Perry



CincyReds2003
07-17-2006, 11:03 AM
First, he ranks us 19th, and second, check out his analysis.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/powerRankings?FSO1&ATT=HCP&GT1=8393


The Reds remain contenders, but they've just pulled off one of the worst trades in recent memory. They just sent their starting shortstop (Felipe Lopez) and their starting right fielder (Austin Kearns) both productive and reasonably young, as well as reliever Ryan Wagner, to the Nats for two middling relievers, two mid-grade prospects and the withered remains of Royce Clayton. It's an inexcusable deal on the part of Cincy GM Wayne Krivsy. The Cardinals and other NL Wild Card contenders should breathe a little easier today.

MartyFan
07-17-2006, 11:20 AM
I am loving how outright against this deal the national press has been...they are saying Bowden Swindled the Reds, took the rookie GM to school, etc...I am 100% certain that this orgnization just made one of the best deals they have made in several years by picking up pitching instead of toolsy players...I love the fact that we already have the parts in house to replace those that we traded away and did I mention how happy I am to hear that the national blowhards are against this deal...fattening them up for the slaughter!

jimbo
07-17-2006, 11:26 AM
It is obvious from reading some of the reactions of this trade from the national media types that they know very little about the Reds or the players involved in this trade. It's amazing how many bad sports journalists there are in high profile positions who know little about what they are writing.

Ltlabner
07-17-2006, 11:29 AM
and did I mention how happy I am to hear that the national blowhards are against this deal...fattening them up for the slaughter!

Wasn't it back when the Reds couldn't not win a game in April/early May when many people here were saying that the national media doesn't know crap about baseball, let alone the Reds? That we don't get any respect from them? That the collective national baseball media couldn't see past the Reds Sox and Yankees?

Yet now some turn to those same sources as backup for why they hate this trade.

Laughable.

dunner13
07-17-2006, 11:32 AM
This guy has us ranked 19th. We are leading the wildcard, that alone should make us a top 10 team in baseball right now. Hes a complete idiot, they apparantly will pay any moran off the street to write sports analysis.

RedsManRick
07-17-2006, 11:36 AM
I absolutely love getting killed like this in the press. If we falter, expectations were low anyways. If we continue to do well, it's a big up yours. I like having that possiblity on the horizon.

griffeyfreak4
07-17-2006, 11:39 AM
The self-immolating trade by the Reds all but locks up the division for St. Louis. They've played the weakest schedule in the game to date, but they've likely upgraded the rotation by swapping out Sidney Ponson for Jeff Weaver. Still, Tony La Russa badly needs to do the smart thing and keep Anthony Reyes in the rotation even after Mark Mulder returns from injury.
The analysis for the Cards. :laugh:

dabvu2498
07-17-2006, 11:52 AM
The XM Baseball this AM crew were giving Kriv some love this morning.

REDREAD
07-17-2006, 11:54 AM
Guys, even if you like the trade, isn't it reasonable to expect it to be criticisized? It's pretty much unprecendented to give up that much talent for two middle relievers, one of which has only been up in the bigs for about 3-4 weeks.

I also never understood why the word "toolsy" has such a negative connation here. I know it's from the Bowden era, but if you look back, more of his tools projects succeeded than failed (I'm excluding the long shot signings like Vince Coleman, etc).

Red Stocking
07-17-2006, 12:05 PM
Does anyone see his e-mail address on there anywhere? I'd love to send him an e-mail to see what his response would be.

MaineRed
07-17-2006, 12:11 PM
The Red Sox gave up Jeff Bagwell, a future HOFer for one reliever.

Jeff Bagwell > Kearns and Lopez x 2

Don't sit there and say it has never happened. Happens all the time.

MaineRed
07-17-2006, 12:14 PM
REDREAD's signature: ""Philosophically, we believe that when you have a chance to trade a middle reliever for an everyday player, that's helpful," Bowden said. [after stealing Kearns and Lopez]"

That philosophy is why were in this boat in the first place. Bowden continued to trade pitching for offense.

If you've been awake the last 6 years, you know where that (and some other things) got us.

Time to try something different. Bowden's plan never worked.

Steve4192
07-17-2006, 12:15 PM
Withered remains of Royce Clayton: 3 for 8 with a double and 3 RBI

Kearns + Lopez combined: 2 for 25 with no extra base hits and no RBI

Tommyjohn25
07-17-2006, 01:08 PM
I still don't get why the idea for trading offense for pitching is being so widely frowned upon, WINNING teams do it all the time. How many pennants did the Reds fetch with a superior offense this decade? This coming from someone who was a huge fan of Kearns. I would think if there is any fans in baseball who would appriciate trading for pitching help, it would be Reds fans.

ochre
07-17-2006, 01:16 PM
REDREAD's signature: ""Philosophically, we believe that when you have a chance to trade a middle reliever for an everyday player, that's helpful," Bowden said. [after stealing Kearns and Lopez]"

That philosophy is why were in this boat in the first place. Bowden continued to trade pitching for offense.

If you've been awake the last 6 years, you know where that (and some other things) got us.

Time to try something different. Bowden's plan never worked.
I'm not a Bowden fan, but I don't remember the bullpen ever really being a problem with him...

If there is fault to be found for the condition of the Reds bullpen, it lies firmly with the O'Briens of this world. Krivsky can have a pass, due to how late in the process he was brought in for this year.

Krusty
07-17-2006, 01:45 PM
People forget the money being saved in the deal. What Kearns and Lopez would have gotten in arbitration now can be used to acquire a free agent or two.

Dunner44
07-17-2006, 02:05 PM
Fox Sports is the worst of all of the 4 major outlets (SI, Sportsline, and ESPN being the others) with their Red Sox/Yankees love. Seriously, every single feature they have there is about the Yanks/Sox, and it is sickening.

jimbo
07-17-2006, 02:51 PM
I still don't get why the idea for trading offense for pitching is being so widely frowned upon, WINNING teams do it all the time. How many pennants did the Reds fetch with a superior offense this decade? This coming from someone who was a huge fan of Kearns. I would think if there is any fans in baseball who would appriciate trading for pitching help, it would be Reds fans.

Excellent comments. The Reds have proven a lot recently that a very productive offense coupled with a crappy pitching staff does not work. It's time to move in a new direction.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-17-2006, 02:55 PM
I am loving how outright against this deal the national press has been...they are saying Bowden Swindled the Reds, took the rookie GM to school, etc...I am 100% certain that this orgnization just made one of the best deals they have made in several years by picking up pitching instead of toolsy players...I love the fact that we already have the parts in house to replace those that we traded away and did I mention how happy I am to hear that the national blowhards are against this deal...fattening them up for the slaughter!


I agree with this. And those other NL Central teams better not breath too easy as, save for STL, the Reds have opened a little space between themselves and their division bretheren since the trade. Who should breathe easier?

gm
07-17-2006, 06:43 PM
That philosophy is why were in this boat in the first place. Bowden continued to trade pitching for offense.

Delicious double-irony. I would say that the Red's inability to draft/develop young pitching during the Bowden era ultimately resulted in the need for Krivsky to trade for quality relief pitching from...Jimbo

reality is stranger than fiction

red-in-la
07-17-2006, 06:56 PM
The analysis I read said that Bay could end up as the next dominating LH closer. If that is anywhere close to true, this will end up as a good trade.

However, unless one or two of the guys they got prove to be very effective at the ML level, then you have to be blind not to be critical of this trade.

MaineRed
07-17-2006, 08:17 PM
However, unless one or two of the guys they got prove to be very effective at the ML level, then you have to be blind not to be critical of this trade.

Doesn't that go without saying? I don't think Wayne made this trade to boost Louisiville's chances. This trade was made for two major league ready players who I expect (based on the trade) to be effective THIS season. I don't think this year will be the final say on the trade, but I still believe the Reds expect both the relievers to help out, greatly this year.

That is one of the other good things about this trade. It not only helps the Reds in the present but it was not a rental. Would people of been happier with a Juan Guzman for BJ Ryan (do I have that right?) deal? I doubt it. Especially based on the current make-up of the team.

Counting the bullpen, you need close to 20 solid players who can really help you. 5 or 6 of those guys need to be relievers unless you have lights out starters, which the Reds don't. The Reds already think they have replaced Kearns. Denorfia/Freel are expected to step right in. He was expendable.

As for Lopez it was up for debate as to whether he was the teams SS of the future, especially as he will be looking for the big pay-day in the near future. Wouldn't the Reds be better off going with a defensive SS and using that money on pitching? Maybe that is not what the plan is, I don't know but I don't believe their was any order to cut payroll.

Let's let this play out. Kriv keeps finding the gold at the end of the rainbow. And it is obvious the Reds needed serious bullpen help. You win with pitching in this league. Not with Felipe Lopez and Austin Kearns.

MrCinatit
07-17-2006, 08:27 PM
And where are the Nationals in the standings right now?
Yeah, sure, Bowden is doing a fantastic job over there.
/irony off