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Edskin
07-19-2006, 05:45 PM
Wishful thinking for many, but here's a little gas on the fire....

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2524225

VR
07-19-2006, 05:53 PM
If not for his poor showing the first time around in SD, it would make sense. He hit poorly, and his fielding made EE look like Brooks Robinson. Don't think they'd take him back. :(

oneupper
07-19-2006, 05:55 PM
Wishful thinking for many, but here's a little gas on the fire....

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2524225


If you're thinking Aurilia..they had him back in 2004 and I doubt they want him back.
If you're thinking EE..I ain't wishing.

flyer85
07-19-2006, 06:04 PM
We should be so lucky

Unassisted
07-19-2006, 06:38 PM
It is a plausible explanation for the benching of young Edwin.

KronoRed
07-19-2006, 06:41 PM
Rich will go nowhere while this team is in the race

registerthis
07-19-2006, 06:45 PM
Rich will go nowhere while this team is in the race

I think you could have said the same of Austin Kearns prior to last week.

Marc D
07-19-2006, 06:55 PM
Narron goes to Krivs's office after hearing they made trade Richie....


http://www.tam.co.il/22_11_2002/images/laila_man_crying.jpg

penantboundreds
07-20-2006, 12:50 AM
remember when most people on this board hated the aurillia signing? i think i probably didn't like it either but i know one thought i always had was that we signed him to a minor league contract......he now is one of our most valuable players...just saying

Jpup
07-20-2006, 03:24 AM
remember when most people on this board hated the aurillia signing? i think i probably didn't like it either but i know one thought i always had was that we signed him to a minor league contract......he now is one of our most valuable players...just saying

I still hate it.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-20-2006, 04:08 AM
We should be so lucky


:bang:

I don't get this.

I'm very happy with RA here and don't want to lose him. The guy comes up with big hits and is a nice veteran presence to have. But some people are so set in their ways that he could go on a 57-game hitting streak here and would still be blasted by some on this board.

reds44
07-20-2006, 04:11 AM
Rich is one of the Reds better hitters right now, he just shouldn't play over Edwin.

Simple as that.

GAC
07-20-2006, 06:59 AM
We should be so lucky

.841 OPS this year

A .283 BA .335 OB% .506 SLG% (12 Hrs) 37 RBIs

And if people want to talk about projections - he projects out to

77 runs, 135 hits, 34 XB hits, 24 Hrs, 77 RBIs

and all that for 1.3 Mil. ;)

If some don't think RA is an asset on this team this year, from a performance standard, then they are deluding themselves IMO.

Would love to see him moved to 2B (for now), BP to SS, EE at 3rd, and Freel/Deno in RF.

It's not Aurilia's fault he is being played.

As far as showcasing him? If that is what they are doing, and they can acquire something solid for him, then I hope they go for it.

But if people think this offense took a hit with the loss of Lopez and Kearns, then it definitely will with the loss of RA.

Because IMO, it's just gonna give even more playing time this year to guys like Castro/Clayton.

Not a threat.... just a fact.

schroomytunes
07-20-2006, 07:08 AM
I dont think Aurilia will be moved, with the loss of Lopez, we need someone with some pop in the infield.

GAC
07-20-2006, 07:15 AM
Rich is one of the Reds better hitters right now, he just shouldn't play over Edwin.

Simple as that.

Why not? Because EE has an "upside" and potential?

The only reason RA is at 3B right now is because of EE's youth/inexperience that has led to a defensive lack.... and the fact that RA is matching his production right now offensively (.841 OPS).

Edge - Aurilia.

People say play him, endure the errors/mental mistakes, because he is gonna get better.

And the fans are willing to do so at the risk of the shot here in '06?

That is what it is all about IMO.

princeton
07-20-2006, 08:36 AM
Reds aren't showcasing Aurilia. He's doing that all by himself.

It's a great time to trade him. The problem is that his value is to another contender, and the other team has to give up Now talent, not prospects, because we're still in a race. The other contender would have to have a real glut at another position, and I don't see where any team thinks that they have such a thing. And we no longer are looking for two decent middle relievers. It's going to take an impact player.

three-way deal between two contenders and an also-ran, with us also surrendering prospects, is the only way that we fill a need by dealing Aurilia

Chip R
07-20-2006, 10:14 AM
Why not? Because EE has an "upside" and potential?

The only reason RA is at 3B right now is because of EE's youth/inexperience that has led to a defensive lack.... and the fact that RA is matching his production right now offensively (.841 OPS).

Edge - Aurilia.

People say play him, endure the errors/mental mistakes, because he is gonna get better.

And the fans are willing to do so at the risk of the shot here in '06?

That is what it is all about IMO.

There is no denying that RA has been an asset to the team this year. He is playing great.

But how does EE get better if he does not play? David Wright had a lot of errors his first couple of years and now there are poeple who would not trade him for A Rod. I guess Wright had the good fortune to be on a couple of pretty bad Mets teams where they did not have to worry about his mistakes costing them a shot at the playoffs.

So when does EE play? Next year? Unless the Reds get off to a dreadful start next year, they should be in the race for a while. So what do you do? Do you put RA there for another year? Or sign someone like Vinny Castilla? When does EE get his chance?

Cedric
07-20-2006, 10:19 AM
EE has to play over Rich Aurilia. Who cares if Rich is on a hot lucky streak? He shouldn't have been in the lineup over EE to get on that hot streak.

He's a bad fielder and below average against RH pitching. It's really amazing he plays over Edwin.

RedsManRick
07-20-2006, 10:34 AM
You know the Twins are hurting right now. They've got three OF on the DL and their best 3B, Punto, is also their best healthy CF. I certainly don't want Kyle Lohse (who is simply Joe Mays v2.0), but if I could get one of their AAA bullpen guys, I'd be all over it.

gonelong
07-20-2006, 11:06 AM
It's a great time to trade him.

I agree, though I don't mind having RA around either. I wish they would deploy him in different ways though.

IMO he isn't going anywhere. RCast, Krivsky, and Narron have all expressed their undying man-love for RA at one time or another.

GL

LincolnparkRed
07-20-2006, 11:20 AM
maybe the yankees will trade us Arod straight up?

Cyclone792
07-20-2006, 11:30 AM
I agree, though I don't mind having RA around either. I wish they would deploy him in different ways though.

This is my bone too. I don't mind Aurilia playing four or five games a week, but he needs to be utilized differently in those four or five games. He can play all four infield positions so Narron should aim to take advantage of that.

Give each infielder one game off per week and sub Aurilia in for each of those games. If they don't want him to fill in at shortstop, slide Phillips over for a game and install Aurilia at second base. That would allow all five infielders to have ample playing time while also ensuring they're well-rested.

It's just irritating that when Aurilia plays four or five games a week, Narron benches the same player - Encarnacion in this case - for most of those games now.

RFS62
07-20-2006, 02:19 PM
With all the talk about how hard EE is working on his defense, I'm sure they're evaluating his progress.

It's not hard to see that Narron is riding Rich's hot bat and probably sees his defense as stable. That's the combination that's keeping EE riding the pine.

KronoRed
07-20-2006, 03:58 PM
Playing EE at 3rd over Rich wouldn't sink this team anymore then Rich is going to lead us to the series.

Rich is hot right now and should get some time, Rich to 2nd.

GAC
07-20-2006, 08:51 PM
There is no denying that RA has been an asset to the team this year. He is playing great.

But how does EE get better if he does not play? David Wright had a lot of errors his first couple of years and now there are poeple who would not trade him for A Rod. I guess Wright had the good fortune to be on a couple of pretty bad Mets teams where they did not have to worry about his mistakes costing them a shot at the playoffs.

So when does EE play? Next year? Unless the Reds get off to a dreadful start next year, they should be in the race for a while. So what do you do? Do you put RA there for another year? Or sign someone like Vinny Castilla? When does EE get his chance?

I agree Chip, and have stated such.

So if you're the manager, and it's possibly your job on the line... as well as a shot at the post-season.... which odds do you play? ;)

You have two players.... a rookie with an upside, but who is showing defensive inconsistency due to immaturity.... and an experienced vet.

The experienced vet is putting up the comparable numbers offensively while holding the definite edge defensively.

Tough choice huh. ;)

rfs62 says it most eloquently and in a nutshell...


With all the talk about how hard EE is working on his defense, I'm sure they're evaluating his progress.

It's not hard to see that Narron is riding Rich's hot bat and probably sees his defense as stable. That's the combination that's keeping EE riding the pine.

KronoRed
07-20-2006, 10:14 PM
Narron's job is not on the line, a contract extension is a big vote of confidence.

edabbs44
07-20-2006, 10:41 PM
With all the talk about how hard EE is working on his defense, I'm sure they're evaluating his progress.

It's not hard to see that Narron is riding Rich's hot bat and probably sees his defense as stable. That's the combination that's keeping EE riding the pine.
Aurilia played a lot before the injury too.

Tony Cloninger
07-20-2006, 10:46 PM
You should not lose your starting position beacuse of an injury.

Try to play RA when he is hot...is not the problem....he should be trying to find a way to get both guys in the lineup. He can rest BP.....1 day a week.....something.

alloverjr
07-20-2006, 10:47 PM
I've never understood the term "showcase". The player is who they are (or something like that). Playing less or more won't change that. Anyway, off the original topic but following the discussion of the last week, who was the starting SS last year at the start? If it's so important to have Rich's bat in the lineup, for heaven's sake, why not give him a few starts at short? No matter how many bloops and seeing eye hits Clayton might have, this team needs as many offensive weapons on the field at the same time as possible, and Clayton to me doesn't fit that description. So, why does it have to come down to EE v. RA? I honestly don't think that Clayton's defense is that superior to EE's, albeit at different positions, to warrant what I've seen since the trade. I've seen the advocation of moving Phillips to SS and RA to 2B, which would accomplish the same thing, although moving Phillips back to SS might be something I would wait until the offseason to try. I just don't understand leaving EE on the bench as often as he's been. Or is he too valuable to start? :devil:

flyer85
07-20-2006, 10:53 PM
The only thing Aurilia is being showcased for is to be the everyday 3B of the Reds.

Jpup
07-21-2006, 02:36 AM
Rich is hot right now and should get some time, Rich to 2nd.

did you just say that? :eek:

Jpup
07-21-2006, 02:37 AM
You should not lose your starting position beacuse of an injury.

Tell that to Tom Brady and Drew Bledsoe. ;)

REDREAD
07-21-2006, 08:54 AM
One of the beat writers indicated that EE was covered in sweat from taking so much fielding practice.

I wonder if they are riding EE so hard in fielding practice, that they are giving him some time off during the game. Not saying that I think this is the best way to do it, but it could indicate that it's not a conspiracy to keep EE down.
If the guy spends all day on fielding, maybe they don't want him starting every day as well.

I don't think they want Rich at SS unless it's absolutely necessary. As many complained last year, Rich is not a good defensive SS. Also, I feel they don't want to take playing time away from Phillips. Phillips seems to have a fragile personality and might start pouting and tanking again. Phillips responded to the confidence given him, and I'm not sure you want to mess that up.

I do feel confident that within a couple weeks, if EE has made significant progress in fielding, he will play more. We should be happy we have Rich. He's made great contributions over the past two years, and he hasn't complained to the press this year (although I think that was blown out of proportion last year). If EE doesn't improve in fielding, it's possible the Reds lose patience and trade him, just as they did with Lopez. Not saying that's right, but that appears to be the way Wayne operates.

GAC
07-21-2006, 09:21 AM
Narron's job is not on the line, a contract extension is a big vote of confidence.

Contract extensions are not guarantees of job security.

A 2 yr extension like that is simply about taking any pressure a manager might have at the moment, and keeping his focus on what matters - the team - not his job security.

It sure isn't a vote of confidence in not firing him if the team does not perform.... or he pulls a Miley.

And I bet they aren't paying him all that much. Especially not as much as the guys they had no problem DFAing so far this year. ;)

Castellini will eat Narron's contract in a second if he has to.

GAC
07-21-2006, 09:29 AM
Aurilia played a lot before the injury too.

But not 3B. ;)

A vast majority of it was platooning with Hat at 1B. Someone else will have to look it up; but before EE's DL trip, you could count on one hand the number of times RA was at 3B. He has made 6 appearances at 2B.

I also thoroughly agree with what Cyclone states above. You could give Rich plenty of playing time moving him around the INF. Good idea.

Chip R
07-21-2006, 09:35 AM
I agree Chip, and have stated such.

So if you're the manager, and it's possibly your job on the line... as well as a shot at the post-season.... which odds do you play? ;)

You have two players.... a rookie with an upside, but who is showing defensive inconsistency due to immaturity.... and an experienced vet.

The experienced vet is putting up the comparable numbers offensively while holding the definite edge defensively.

Tough choice huh. ;)

rfs62 says it most eloquently and in a nutshell...

Why not play both?

Saying that you play Aurilia because you are in the heat of a pennant race is just an excuse. If you use that excuse, the only time you play Encarnacion is when you are eliminated from playoff contention. You don't play him at the beginning of the year cause everyone is still in it. Maybe you play him in September when you are out of it but it is hard to evaluate someone in September. When does Encarnacion get his chance to be a scrappy vet?

Play them both. Put EE at 3rd and RA at 2nd. Move Phillips to SS. If you don't want to mess with Phillips during the season, put RA at SS. All they want there is someone who makes the routine plays.

GAC
07-21-2006, 09:48 AM
When does Encarnacion get his chance to be a scrappy vet?

He ain't old enough yet! :lol:


Play them both. Put EE at 3rd and RA at 2nd. Move Phillips to SS. If you don't want to mess with Phillips during the season, put RA at SS.

Sounds good to me.... lets do it! Since you know where all the Red's personnel live in Cincy, I say you, me, and Kitty camp out in Narron's front yard with our age acceleration pics of EE labeled "Scrappy Vet"


All they want there is someone who makes the routine plays.

And not as many errors too. ;)

princeton
07-21-2006, 09:59 AM
Contract extensions are not guarantees of job security.

A 2 yr extension like that is simply about taking any pressure a manager might have at the moment, and keeping his focus on what matters - the team - not his job security.

It sure isn't a vote of confidence in not firing him if the team does not perform.

I agree

however, people are talking about Narron's contract extension as if it is NOT a vote of confidence and as if it is NOT a means of validating Narron's approach to running the team.

and that's silly. It's more than just a bonus for the team's record. The brass wants Narron to manage in the same way as he has been. Maybe with fewer pitches by Harang.

M2
07-21-2006, 10:13 AM
I agree

however, people are talking about Narron's contract extension as if it is NOT a vote of confidence and as if it is NOT a means of validating Narron's approach to running the team.

and that's silly. It's more than just a bonus for the team's record. The brass wants Narron to manage in the same way as he has been. Maybe with fewer pitches by Harang.

Mangement wants him to manage the way he's managing as long as it nets results. If the worm turns in the future, then you can expect the team's estimation of Narron's approach to change as well.

Chip R
07-21-2006, 10:14 AM
The brass wants Narron to manage in the same way as he has been. Maybe with fewer pitches by Harang.

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/pressbox/photos/headshots_players_coaches/110481_90x135.jpg http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/pressbox/photos/headshots_players_coaches/119655_90x135.jpg


Separated at birth?

princeton
07-21-2006, 11:34 AM
Mangement wants him to manage the way he's managing as long as it nets results.

Mr Obvious

that said, this FO seems to like how things are done as much as what things are done. Posting good numbers but missing the little things earns you a one-way to D.C., an extended stay in Chattanooga, a role behind Rich Aurilia, or a contract nonextension.

Chip R
07-21-2006, 11:38 AM
that said, this FO seems to like how things are done as much as what things are done. Posting good numbers but missing the little things earns you a one-way to D.C., an extended stay in Chattanooga, a role behind Rich Aurilia, or a contract nonextension.

That's true and as much as Narron has been bashed, only one of those things is under his control. Now he may have considerable input into those other things but it's Wayne who makes the final decision on who stays and who goes.

westofyou
07-21-2006, 11:43 AM
Mr Obvious

that said, this FO seems to like how things are done as much as what things are done. Posting good numbers but missing the little things earns you a one-way to D.C., an extended stay in Chattanooga, a role behind Rich Aurilia, or a contract nonextension.
Yep, it's the same approach that Howsam took as well, weeding out what he thought wasn't the "Type" of player/pitchers he liked. He too was saddled with a manager who the prior regime gave him, he stuck through it and even kept him for a couple of seasons, but he dumped him when he felt the team was ready to pop and needed new leadership.

Until the Reds feel they are ready to pop or Narron challenges Junior to a fight in front of the team blackboard I would expect the FO to be behind Jerry's moves.

Especially after the Boone/Miley years

Benihana
07-21-2006, 11:45 AM
Reds aren't showcasing Aurilia. He's doing that all by himself.

It's a great time to trade him. The problem is that his value is to another contender, and the other team has to give up Now talent, not prospects, because we're still in a race. The other contender would have to have a real glut at another position, and I don't see where any team thinks that they have such a thing. And we no longer are looking for two decent middle relievers. It's going to take an impact player.

three-way deal between two contenders and an also-ran, with us also surrendering prospects, is the only way that we fill a need by dealing Aurilia

I would deal him for a high level minor league pitching talent, like maybe a Jonathan Broxton, a ML-ready reliever who is also a very good pitching prospect. I think that deal works for both sides.

M2
07-21-2006, 11:55 AM
Mr Obvious

that said, this FO seems to like how things are done as much as what things are done. Posting good numbers but missing the little things earns you a one-way to D.C., an extended stay in Chattanooga, a role behind Rich Aurilia, or a contract nonextension.

Obvious, but then you drop like it's white-hot in order to grope a false premise.

princeton
07-21-2006, 12:04 PM
Obvious, but then you drop like it's white-hot in order to grope a false premise.

I think of it more as providing you with actual original thoughts that you can trash for a time, then claim as your own

Executive Training, if you will ;)

M2
07-21-2006, 12:07 PM
I think of it more as providing you with actual original thoughts that you can trash for a time, then claim as your own

Executive Training, if you will ;)

Yeah, because Jerry Narron's the first Reds manager in ages who's paid lip service to doing the little things ...

Nice original thought there, certainly not a hackneyed mantra of any sort. If only Dave Miley, Bob Boone, Jack McKeon, Ray Knight, Davey Johnson, Tony Perez, Lou Piniella, Tommy Helms, Pete Rose, Vern Rapp, Russ Nixon and John McNamara had thought of it.

princeton
07-21-2006, 12:12 PM
Yeah, because Jerry Narron's the first Reds manager in ages who's paid lip service to doing the little things ...

Nice original thought there, certainly not a hackneyed mantra of any sort.

yeah, but Boss, I expect to see it soon in modified form, like last week's comparison of Adam Dunn with young Michael Jordan that was attacked, then quickly became Dunn/young Shaq for the board presentation

M2
07-21-2006, 12:13 PM
yeah, but Boss, I expect to see it soon in modified form, like last week's comparison of Adam Dunn with young Michael Jordan that was attacked, then quickly became Dunn/young Shaq for the board presentation

Nah, it was just used because bad analogy seemed the only medium in which you were willing to communicate that day.

BRM
07-21-2006, 02:48 PM
Aurilia gets a mention on mlbtraderumors.com.


Couple of fresh rumors surrounding the Padres' third base vacancy, and I'm proud to say that MLBTradeRumors was able to deduce these in advance. A week ago I compiled a spreadsheet of Kevin Towers' trading history since 2001, nerd that I am. From that we learned that Towers loves working with the Red Sox and also Bill Bavasi. That he would consider Adrian Beltre and Mike Lowell for his vacancy followed logically. Today, the Beltre rumor comes courtesy of Ken Rosenthal and Buster Olney threw down the Lowell rumor. If those two big dogs fall through, Towers could pursue previous acquisitions Joe Randa or Rich Aurilia.

Another interesting note.


ESPN's Stark Market tells us that the Mets may have soured a bit on Lastings Milledge and could consider shipping him to Philadelphia for Bobby Abreu. Meanwhile, Baseball Prospectus's Jay Jaffe reminds us that Milledge's most comparable player is Ruben Mateo, and recommends the deal for New York.

westofyou
07-21-2006, 02:49 PM
Jay Jaffe reminds us that Milledge's most comparable player is Ruben Mateo, and recommends the deal for New York.

So's Jeff Francour's

Heath
07-21-2006, 02:50 PM
Well, if the Mets are going to win now, they aren't shy in opening up the pocketbook.

:pray: Please please Mr. Towers. Take Mr. Aurilia to San Diego.

GAC
07-21-2006, 04:17 PM
Well, if the Mets are going to win now, they aren't shy in opening up the pocketbook.

I was hoping Omar would seriously inquire about Milty. ;)

REDREAD
07-21-2006, 05:46 PM
If I'm the Mets, I think I do Millage for Abreau. The Mets have the cash to lock up Abreau. Would be a great addition for them.

I know Omar Minaya gets ragged on here, but he's operating the Mets the way they should've been run for the past 20 years (but haven't). He's spending the money on impact players, not washed up has-beens. Sure, it's easier than building a winner in a market like Cincy, yet many big market GMs fail to do it.

RedLegSuperStar
07-23-2006, 05:41 PM
I don't think Aurilia will end up with the Pads.. With the SD getting Williamson from the Cubs it has put Linebrink on the market. Rumor has it that Boston will get him in return for Mike Lowell.

RedsRock
07-26-2006, 11:06 AM
Has all of this lack of playing time for EE been a front to showcase Richie?

Would he even bring anything of value?

RBA
07-26-2006, 11:09 AM
Has all of this lack of playing time for EE been a front to showcase Richie?

Would he even bring anything of value?

It would be a mistake to sit EE to showcase RA. All this sitting on the bench will not help EE and the Reds down the stretch. EE needs playing time to improve and take it to the next level.

Marty and Joe
07-26-2006, 12:06 PM
Has all of this lack of playing time for EE been a front to showcase Richie?

Would he even bring anything of value?

I've been thinking (hoping) that's what's going on. Some of the comments by Narron can lead one to believe this is what is occuring. Guess we'll have a much better idea by Monday afternoon.

No way Narron or WK is going to come out and say that...or have that discussion with EE, or anyone else before Monday if that is truly the case because that could backfire several ways.

Hopefully...soon...we will see EE in there on a regular basis. He needs it for his development, the Reds need it for the long-term (and, some could argue short-term) good of the team. I'm hoping the latest we see it is beginning of next week.

In RA's defense, he has been performing well during this time. So, it may turn out to be a win-win-win. Reds have played well since the break, RA's value, if anything, has gone up, which may allow a sell-high situation, and EE is still here, healthier by the day, and the long-term solution.

Even if RA doesn't get moved, I'd expect EE to start seeing most of the time at 3B soon with RA platooning at 1B, and spelling everyone else in the infield. Of course....other things I've 'expected' haven't quite worked out before. ;)

And there's no telling what other GM's will do in this environment with so many teams still feeling as if they are in the race. Should be fun between now and Monday.