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princeton
07-20-2006, 10:08 AM
but what?

5-1 means that this is no time to stop. I wonder where Joey Votto will be in two weeks?

Joseph
07-20-2006, 10:13 AM
Wayne has said a couple times in recent days that he likes the team as is and isn't inclined to tweak it anymore.

Which basically means I agree with you, something big must be up for the GM to say he wants to do nothing.

smith288
07-20-2006, 10:13 AM
Are you trying to be cryptic with something you actually know? No offense but thoughts posed as a thread is pretty much clutter when there is running threads about the deadline...

If you got something, spill the beans! :D

15fan
07-20-2006, 10:26 AM
How 'bout this:

With a rough week ahead (3 @ NYM & 3 vs. Cincinnati), the Astros could be far enough back at the end of the month to raise the white flag on 2006.

Would that make Roger Clemens available?

Jpup
07-20-2006, 10:28 AM
How 'bout this:

With a rough week ahead (3 @ NYM & 3 vs. Cincinnati), the Astros could be far enough back at the end of the month to raise the white flag on 2006.

Would that make Roger Clemens available?

not to the reds. he'll probably be headed to the Northeast.

OldXOhio
07-20-2006, 10:29 AM
How 'bout this:

With a rough week ahead (3 @ NYM & 3 vs. Cincinnati), the Astros could be far enough back at the end of the month to raise the white flag on 2006.

Would that make Roger Clemens available?

I can't see HOU making him available, regardless of their playoff chances. If he were to be moved, I'm guessing he'd point to NYY or BOS only.

princeton
07-20-2006, 10:31 AM
Roger Clemens, you're mad and I love it. John Smoltz, two. Keep it going, entertain me.



No offense

agreed, there's no offense. Let's get Abreu. Might just cost a lot of cash


thoughts posed as a thread is pretty much clutter when there is running threads about the deadline...

I'm trying to think of your good post within those other 5387, but it's not coming back to me ;)

corkedbat
07-20-2006, 10:35 AM
Where's Big Donkey these days?

lollipopcurve
07-20-2006, 10:47 AM
5-1 means that this is no time to stop. I wonder where Joey Votto will be in two weeks?

I see Votto as a key inexpensive component of the offense for the next few years. With the expected decline of Griffey, I don't see how you can move him, especially now that the O is weakened.

I think if they can find another 6IP, 3 runs guy for middling talent (like, say, Lohse for Germano and a 2nd-tier prospect), that's what they'll do.

15fan
07-20-2006, 10:55 AM
Roger Clemens, you're mad and I love it. John Smoltz, two. Keep it going, entertain me.

Ok. Sure.

Talk the other day was that the Reds needed another righty bat with some sock given the departure of Kearns & Lopez. Folks were even mentioning, horror of horrors, the return of Reggie Sanders.

Well, there was a big article in my morning paper about Sammy Sosa and how he thinks he still has a few more HRs left in him.

Sign him to a minor league deal & give him a few weeks of ABs in AAA.

He's a FA, so it wouldn't cost anything.

:devil:

CrackerJack
07-20-2006, 10:56 AM
I see Votto as a key inexpensive component of the offense for the next few years. With the expected decline of Griffey, I don't see how you can move him, especially now that the O is weakened.

I think if they can find another 6IP, 3 runs guy for middling talent (like, say, Lohse for Germano and a 2nd-tier prospect), that's what they'll do.

Yeah I thought Hatte was as stop gap for Votto, and with Kearns and Lopez gone, guys like Votto and Bruce should be untouchable.

The Reds will need a #4-#5 starter, but have no idea who they'd give up to get him - Aurillia/Claussen/minor league arms?

princeton
07-20-2006, 11:04 AM
LC, CJ, I can't even read your posts-- static in my broadband, I reckon. Were you talking about what teams lust for Joey Votto and have an ace to deal? If so, I'm loving you guys.

guy's Canadian, but I'm not surrendering him for Ted Lilly. But who couldn't use an extended Halladay?

Dontrelle Willis-- not on a team that needs our pal Joey-- but still, coming around a little or no?

Steve4192
07-20-2006, 11:06 AM
I see Votto as a key inexpensive component of the offense for the next few years
Agreed.

IMO, the Reds should not be shopping Bailey, Bruce, Votto, or Denorfia. The first two guys (Bailey, Bruce) have the potential to become superstars you can build a team around. The last two guys (Votto, Deno) figure to be quality everyday players who can provide dirt-cheap league-average production for the next 3-5 years. Guys who can produce league-average results while earning the minimum salary are invaluable to small market clubs like the Reds.

Of course, if someone else brings one of those four into the conversation, the Reds should be willing to listen. But anyone that wants one of those four guys had better be prepared to give up an arm and a leg to get 'em.

So yes Princeton, if Toronto dangles Halladay or Florida dangles Willis, I would certainly consider moving one of the aforementioned 'untouchables'.

edabbs44
07-20-2006, 11:11 AM
Well, there was a big article in my morning paper about Sammy Sosa and how he thinks he still has a few more HRs left in him.

Sign him to a minor league deal & give him a few weeks of ABs in AAA.

He's a FA, so it wouldn't cost anything.

:devil:
Except our dignity.

princeton
07-20-2006, 11:11 AM
Phillies fans-- Jimmy Rollins? still in high favor, or getting a bit pricey?

15fan
07-20-2006, 11:11 AM
Except our dignity.

Which is still MIA from the Marge regime...

princeton
07-20-2006, 11:14 AM
Well, there was a big article in my morning paper about Sammy Sosa and how he thinks he still has a few more HRs left in him.

Bengals have raised the bar for us... I do believe that we could sneak him through

princeton
07-20-2006, 11:22 AM
Would that make Roger Clemens available?

maybe it makes Andy Pettitte available. He's throwing well lately...

flyer85
07-20-2006, 11:28 AM
Wayne has said a couple times in recent days that he likes the team as is and isn't inclined to tweak it anymore.Maybe another Mays hammering would change his mind.

Spitball
07-21-2006, 02:50 PM
but what?

5-1 means that this is no time to stop. I wonder where Joey Votto will be in two weeks?

I'm betting (hoping) Krivsky makes a move before Mays makes another start. I like the idea of dealing a young first baseman for starting pitching. Pitching is hard to come by, first basemen...uh, not so much.

Does anyone have access to Bill James' appraisal of Votto? If I recall, he wasn't too high on his long swing.

Heath
07-21-2006, 02:52 PM
BrooklynRedz is nosing around here - maybe he knows somethings up??

KronoRed
07-21-2006, 03:54 PM
Pitching is hard to come by, first basemen...uh, not so much.

That's why we have 2 bargain guys at 1st this year ;)

True they are playing well, but they wern't in demand around baseball.

BrooklynRedz
07-21-2006, 04:35 PM
BrooklynRedz is nosing around here - maybe he knows somethings up??

Hey, I nose around here quite a bit... ;)

But seriously, I haven't heard a word, which is not all that uncommon with this FO.

Also, and I don't think this is necessarily a new trend, but it seems the media is really driving itself this trade season. One guy drops a dream in a daily notebook...next thing you know it gets a mention by the announcers during the game followed by a full story by the original reporter claiming the rumor has legs because it was mentioned on the air.

Eric_Davis
07-21-2006, 06:22 PM
Krivsky will not sacrifice the future for the present. He's proven that in the type of moves he's made. His first goal is to improve the depth and overall quality of the organization first, and his second goal is to win this year.

He's not, and won't be this year, in the market for anyone who's "hot now", in other words, a big name player.

Anyone he goes after will be of the type that he's already obtained.

Spitball
07-21-2006, 06:29 PM
That's why we have 2 bargain guys at 1st this year ;)

True they are playing well, but they wern't in demand around baseball.

I think that was my point. ;)

princeton
07-21-2006, 06:31 PM
Krivsky will not sacrifice the future for the present. He's proven that in the type of moves he's made. His first goal is to improve the depth and overall quality of the organization first, and his second goal is to win this year.

He's not, and won't be this year, in the market for anyone who's "hot now", in other words, a big name player.

Anyone he goes after will be of the type that he's already obtained.

better last words than yours belong to Major Gen. John Sedgewick: "The Rebels couldn't hit an elephant from that distance."

registerthis
07-21-2006, 07:10 PM
Krivsky will not sacrifice the future for the present. He's proven that in the type of moves he's made.

That's an interesting take on things hot on the heels of one of the more controversial Reds trades in recent history.


He's not, and won't be this year, in the market for anyone who's "hot now".

Gary Majewski?

KronoRed
07-21-2006, 07:15 PM
I think that was my point. ;)
Nah, we got lucky

Next year we might end up with JT Snow :devil:

princeton
07-23-2006, 10:51 AM
I know that I'd give a LOT for Barry Zito and for Zito to ink a new 5 year deal

Krusty
07-23-2006, 11:37 AM
I know that I'd give a LOT for Barry Zito and for Zito to ink a new 5 year deal

You and every large market team. I doubt very much the A's will trade him at the trading deadline. For the Reds, that would probably mean giving up Homer Bailey.

Plus with all those innings Zito has pitched, is going five years a wise thing to do?

VR
07-23-2006, 11:46 AM
I'm expecting something bigger than Kyle Lohse


but what?




I appreciate your lofty expectations, but Lohse is 6'2, 202. To expect something bigger than him might be a bit of a reach.

princeton
07-23-2006, 12:01 PM
I appreciate your lofty expectations, but Lohse is 6'2, 202. To expect something bigger than him might be a bit of a reach.

Zito is 6'4" 210

Heath
07-23-2006, 12:39 PM
Zito is 6'4" 210


He and Arroyo can do "Dueling Banjos".

15fan
07-23-2006, 12:56 PM
maybe it makes Andy Pettitte available. He's throwing well lately...

Entering play today, Stros are 10 back in the Central. Matinee at Shea today, followed by Harang/Arroyo/Ramirez in Houston.

Odds on Houston going to the post-season are getting longer by the day.

KronoRed
07-23-2006, 03:02 PM
Zito is 6'4" 210
We have a better chance at Clemens

oregonred
07-23-2006, 07:02 PM
Again, pitching is tighter than ever -- across the board. A lot of deep pocketed contenders currently have major 5th starter black holes in addition to the Reds.

The almighty Yanks sent out the following HOF arms today in a 13-5 drubbing vs. the Jays (now two games behind the Yankees)

Sidney Ponson (2 IP/6 ER)
Kris Wilson (1.2 IP/4ER) -- 8.64 ERA
Shawn Chacon (3 IP/3ER) -- 6.67 ERA
The ageless Ron Villone to mop-up (1 IP/0ER) -- 2.01 ERA :)

The A's once again today started Esteban Loaiza (he of the 6.75 ERA and 1.72 WHIP) this season

Last night the Cards trotted out DFA fodder Jeff Weaver who managed to shut down the hapless Dodgers over 6IP (1K). Of course so did the '06 STL punching bags in Suppan and Marquis this weekend.

The Mets finally trashed the Lima experiment and seem to have stabilized the rotation with Pelfrey and Orlando Hernandez.

Want pitching that's even half-decent at the deadline -- It's gonna cost a ton, especially any young pitching or a vet with a manageable contract over the next season or two.

RedLegSuperStar
07-23-2006, 07:32 PM
For those who want Zito, just wait till seasons end. A's probably can't afford to keep him and he has pitched well in his contract year so he is probably expected to command AJ Burnett $$ + more. If we want him we will have to outbid teams like the Yankees, Mets, and probably other high market teams. This team has lacked an "Ace" for some time now. Bronson has pitched the most consistant and IMO is this staffs ace. But to go out there and sign a guy like Zito who is 28 years old and makes 8 Mil I could see him comanding a 5 year 60-65 Mil (compared to 5years 55 Mil Burnett recieved). There is no doubt this team is starving for pitching and I think for once this off season need to put the money on the table for an ace like Zito, like Schmidt, like Buerhle.

Jpup
07-23-2006, 08:36 PM
For those who want Zito, just wait till seasons end. A's probably can't afford to keep him and he has pitched well in his contract year so he is probably expected to command AJ Burnett $$ + more. If we want him we will have to outbid teams like the Yankees, Mets, and probably other high market teams. This team has lacked an "Ace" for some time now. Bronson has pitched the most consistant and IMO is this staffs ace. But to go out there and sign a guy like Zito who is 28 years old and makes 8 Mil I could see him comanding a 5 year 60-65 Mil (compared to 5years 55 Mil Burnett recieved). There is no doubt this team is starving for pitching and I think for once this off season need to put the money on the table for an ace like Zito, like Schmidt, like Buerhle.

No way anyone outbids the Mets or Yankees for Zito IMO.

RedLegSuperStar
07-23-2006, 09:44 PM
No way anyone outbids the Mets or Yankees for Zito IMO.

I agree, I just think that is what we need to shoot for in the offseason.. we need a proven "Ace"

oregonred
07-23-2006, 10:41 PM
I agree, I just think that is what we need to shoot for in the offseason.. we need a proven "Ace"

They may have ~10M to play with, but they've got to fill a couple of holes in the offseason (a MI, closer?, 1-2 rotation pieces). Bigger problem, gotta clear out as much of the $25m in deadweight as possible first. (Milton/KGJ/Larue). Larue might be movable especially if he gets more PT as a showcase the next month.

Dunn is another 12M so you've got $37M just for these four guys.

Not paying Kearns/Lopez the collective ~8M will help. A nice season ticket boost in the offseason would help

Probably going to have to be the trade market to find another #2 type guy.

Zito is going to break the bank and assuming the Yankees miss the playoffs and have huge rotation holes -- Probably going to have to be the trade market to find another #2 type guy for any club outside the 3-4 big spenders.

Think Harang + Arroyo + Homer :)

alloverjr
07-23-2006, 10:48 PM
With the market for pitching, and even suspect pitching aparently tight, I hope Krivsky is hawking Milton like mad. Yanks, Sox? I would imagine that some team out there will take on Milton and his salary, regardless of the return. This may be the week to unload him and free up salary.

Marc D
07-23-2006, 10:58 PM
With the market for pitching, and even suspect pitching aparently tight, I hope Krivsky is hawking Milton like mad. Yanks, Sox? I would imagine that some team out there will take on Milton and his salary, regardless of the return. This may be the week to unload him and free up salary.

Good solid long term thinking like that went out the window with the "win now" trade. Krivsky has painted himself into a corner and will probably have to make another desperation move before the deadline. Its doesn't take much to figure out the only thing he has left to deal is minor league talent. He'll probably sell the farm to get Lugo to replace the offense he just traded away at SS.

DoogMinAmo
07-24-2006, 12:03 AM
With the market for pitching, and even suspect pitching aparently tight, I hope Krivsky is hawking Milton like mad. Yanks, Sox? I would imagine that some team out there will take on Milton and his salary, regardless of the return. This may be the week to unload him and free up salary.

Jerry better start pulling him after 6 in order for anyone to want him.

flyer85
07-24-2006, 12:06 AM
He'll probably sell the farm to get Lugo to replace the offense he just traded away at SS.the funny part about that would be Lugo looks like an older version of the SS that just left. I would be extremely worried about a player having a career offensive season is his walk year. Let someone else have the risk because he is more likely to regress back to his career norms at his age.

KronoRed
07-24-2006, 12:11 AM
No way anyone outbids the Mets or Yankees for Zito IMO.
I think he takes less and stays out west, he's a California kid.

Jpup
07-24-2006, 12:36 AM
I think he takes less and stays out west, he's a California kid.

Scott Boras is his agent.

flyer85
07-24-2006, 12:39 AM
Scott Boras is his agent.who he recently switched to. That's hanging out the sign the says "services to the highest bidder, no discounts given"

oregonred
07-24-2006, 01:01 AM
I think he takes less and stays out west, he's a California kid.

Maybe so, one of the Dodgers, Angels, Giants or maybe even the Mariners or Pads. Then the New York teams. Then maybe the Cubs/Cards/Dbacks. 1) Location + cash, 2) simply cash and then 3) The other dozen teams like the Reds can think about joining the fun.

Teams like the Reds are the fourth or fifth rung down on that totem pole, that's a definite.

KronoRed
07-24-2006, 04:26 AM
Scott Boras is his agent.
He'll get one of the west coast teams to throw out a few arms and legs, probably bidding against themselves in the process ;)

M2
07-31-2006, 12:19 PM
but what?

5-1 means that this is no time to stop. I wonder where Joey Votto will be in two weeks?

Be careful what you don't wish for. You just might get it.

wheels
07-31-2006, 12:21 PM
This was indeed a prescient thread.

Krusty
07-31-2006, 12:28 PM
I'll call this one....

Reds trade Claussen and Majeski to the Giants for RHP Schimdt.

princeton
07-31-2006, 12:31 PM
Reds are still on the clock...

M2
07-31-2006, 12:31 PM
I'll call this one....

Reds trade Claussen and Majeski to the Giants for RHP Schimdt.

From your lips to Brian Sabean's ears.

BRM
07-31-2006, 12:33 PM
I'll call this one....

Reds trade Claussen and Majeski to the Giants for RHP Schimdt.


:pray:

flyer85
07-31-2006, 12:37 PM
I'll call this one....

Reds trade Claussen and Majeski to the Giants for RHP Schimdt.not a chance

Johnny Footstool
07-31-2006, 12:38 PM
I'll call this one....

Reds trade Claussen and Majeski to the Giants for RHP Schimdt.

Why give up that much for Schmidt? Surely just Majewski would be enough.

:laugh:

Krusty
07-31-2006, 12:40 PM
not a chance

Wayne K. didn't acquire Lohse to be a starter given his success in the bullpen since being recalled from Triple A.

Which means Wayne K. probably has every intention of packaging a reliever or two to acquire a starter. And if the Reds acquire a fifth starter, where does that put Claussen?

I'm smelling Wayne K's cooking here and just waiting for the main course to be served.

flyer85
07-31-2006, 12:43 PM
Schmidt is the premiere starter available, if actually traded and there are teams with more leverage who could use him more than the Reds. If the Reds acquire Schmidt it would look more like Bruce(A-Prospect), Cueto(B-Prospect) and a C-Prospect. The Giants have no need of Claussen and Majewski.

Benihana
07-31-2006, 12:47 PM
agreed. No way do they do Schmidt for Claussen and Majewski. I would throw Votto in to that deal, but there is still no way that would be enough.

Krusty
07-31-2006, 12:50 PM
If Schimdt is available, I would make every prospect available that isn't named Homer.

flyer85
07-31-2006, 12:53 PM
... something bigger = Cormier :p:

smith288
07-31-2006, 01:20 PM
... something bigger = Cormier :p:
nah... Cormiers only 5-10 195. Lohse is 6-2 202

Az Red
07-31-2006, 01:47 PM
Claussen, Maj, Votto, and Denorfia ...

Enough for Schmidt? Too much?

registerthis
07-31-2006, 01:50 PM
Claussen, Maj, Votto, and Denorfia ...

Enough for Schmidt? Too much?

Claussen, Majewski and Votto might be enough to get it done. Are we willing to part with Votto for two months of Schmidt?

And when's the last time in MLB that a German was traded for a German? :)