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View Full Version : This looked like last year's team, pathetic



TOBTTReds
07-20-2006, 06:26 PM
Guys and gals,

Today's loss was a pathetic one that we would lose last year when we were awful. I think we handed them this win. Here are some things that might have cost us the game.

First reason why we lost: Subbing Hatte for Edwin with the bases loaded. As much as I am a fan of Edwin, I still think this was the right move. All we needed was contact and not a double play from a supreme contact hitter, and we didn't get it, odds were in our favor though. Edwin had reached in 13 of his last 15 AB's though. But....taking EdE out means putting Richie at 3rd, and I think today shows that no matter how many errors EdE makes, he is a far surpior fielder than Rich. Brings me to reason 2....

Second: How many grounders and line drives went by Aurilia at 3rd after EdE was subbed out? Not saying EdE would have made all the plays, but we have seen him make great plays, especially on line drives, and today Rich had cement feet. He just can't move.

Third: Chris Denorfia completely misplayed the popup in the 10th inning. BP was calling for it, and Deno called him off and misplayed it for a double and eventually the winning run.

Fourth: Aurilia on third with BP up and 0 outs in the 6th. Infield playing BACK! BP hits a slow chopper to 2nd base and Aurilia watches it go by the pitcher, THEN takes off towards home! Gets nailed by 5 feet. What in the world was he doing? The infield was back and still got him at home on a SLOW chopper.

Fifth: Sacrificing Freel to 3rd with 0 outs? Deno, Dunn, Aurilia were due up next. Give our selves 3 chances to get him in, not 2.

Today was one of those days where our vets didn't do the "little things" that Narron likes so much. Aurilia couldn't make a play in the field, Hatte K'd on a huge at-bat, and Deno (not a vet) made a poor decision in the OF.

It was just bad. Another great start for Arroyo, who had a dream inning when he K'd Beltran, Delgado, and Wright for his 3 outs. Majewski had to get 4 outs in the 10th, so it was kind of unfair for him. Just dissapointing.

Far East
07-20-2006, 08:51 PM
First reason why we lost: Subbing Hatte for Edwin with the bases loaded. As much as I am a fan of Edwin, I still think this was the right move...Second: How many grounders and line drives went by Aurilia at 3rd after EdE was subbed out? Not saying EdE would have made all the plays, but we have seen him make great plays, especially on line drives, and today Rich had cement feet. He just can't move.
First, much as I like Hat, usually I would not PH for a position player other than the SS or catcher on this team. Save Hat and others for the nine hole PHing. And I say that for many reasons including that a game -- especially a pitchers' duel -- might go extra innings. Look how many PHers came to bat for the Reds' pitchers in yesterday's come from behind win.

Second, much I want EE to be playing, Rich has made some awfully nice snags at the hot corner this week alone.

TOBTTReds
07-20-2006, 09:40 PM
Second, much I want EE to be playing, Rich has made some awfully nice snags at the hot corner this week alone.

Yeah, he is good with the glove when he can get to it. Had a nice stop on Tuesday night, and a funny hop last night. But he just has zero range, and today it showed. I didn't think range was a big factor for 3B, but I think I have noticed it a bit lately with him.

MrCinatit
07-20-2006, 09:46 PM
I believe a lot of this loss lies in poor management and poor coaching.
As many times as I have said this, I feel like :deadhorse

Patrick Bateman
07-20-2006, 09:58 PM
Baseball is a marathon, not a sprint. There are games where you don't get the luck.

Last night we won a game that the Mets feel they should have won. Today, the opposite.

50% of every baseball game is luck. Learn to live with it, it evens out generally over a season.

GAC
07-20-2006, 10:00 PM
Guys and gals,

Today's loss was a pathetic one that we would lose last year when we were awful. I think we handed them this win. Here are some things that might have cost us the game.

First reason why we lost: Subbing Hatte for Edwin with the bases loaded. As much as I am a fan of Edwin, I still think this was the right move. All we needed was contact and not a double play from a supreme contact hitter, and we didn't get it, odds were in our favor though. Edwin had reached in 13 of his last 15 AB's though. But....taking EdE out means putting Richie at 3rd, and I think today shows that no matter how many errors EdE makes, he is a far surpior fielder than Rich. Brings me to reason 2....

Second: How many grounders and line drives went by Aurilia at 3rd after EdE was subbed out? Not saying EdE would have made all the plays, but we have seen him make great plays, especially on line drives, and today Rich had cement feet. He just can't move.

Third: Chris Denorfia completely misplayed the popup in the 10th inning. BP was calling for it, and Deno called him off and misplayed it for a double and eventually the winning run.

Fourth: Aurilia on third with BP up and 0 outs in the 6th. Infield playing BACK! BP hits a slow chopper to 2nd base and Aurilia watches it go by the pitcher, THEN takes off towards home! Gets nailed by 5 feet. What in the world was he doing? The infield was back and still got him at home on a SLOW chopper.

Fifth: Sacrificing Freel to 3rd with 0 outs? Deno, Dunn, Aurilia were due up next. Give our selves 3 chances to get him in, not 2.

Today was one of those days where our vets didn't do the "little things" that Narron likes so much. Aurilia couldn't make a play in the field, Hatte K'd on a huge at-bat, and Deno (not a vet) made a poor decision in the OF.

It was just bad. Another great start for Arroyo, who had a dream inning when he K'd Beltran, Delgado, and Wright for his 3 outs. Majewski had to get 4 outs in the 10th, so it was kind of unfair for him. Just dissapointing.

And just the day before those vets were responsible for 5 of the 7 runs scored.

We were 1 fer 12 with RISP, and stranded 12 runners.

It was a great pitching duel between two very good pitchers this year (Glavine is one of the elite this year).

It was a game inwhich we didn't capitalize on opportunities given (unlike on Wednesday)... and came down to a rookie mistake in the 10th.

But this year's team is nothing like last year's IMO.

Nugget
07-20-2006, 10:07 PM
One game does not make a season. Anyone can have a bad day and today the REDS had one. If the REDS get it all together on one day then they can match it with the best of them. Sometimes the moves work sometimes they don't. Its still a long season and a long way to go. Not time to right of the season. Looks like someone else has caught FCB's pessimism.

If Floyd can do it so can the REDS!

GAC
07-20-2006, 10:15 PM
Yeah, he is good with the glove when he can get to it.

Did you see the play he made late in Wednesday's game? That, and some of the other recent plays, were not "routine" plays.

No one is saying this guy is Brooks Robinson out there at 3B.


But he just has zero range, and today it showed. I didn't think range was a big factor for 3B, but I think I have noticed it a bit lately with him.

Range Factor at 3B...

RA - 2.63 EE - 2.61

Zone Rating...

RA - .829 EE - .742


I don't think anyone is saying (especially me) that EE won't turn out to be a fine 3Bman some day (still to be determined).

But I said this one another thread, in response to the argument that EE isn't going to get any better if he is not played...

So if you're the manager, and it's possibly your job on the line... as well as a shot at the post-season.... which odds do you play?

You have two players.... a rookie with an upside, but who is showing defensive inconsistency due to immaturity.... and an experienced vet.

The experienced vet is putting up the comparable numbers offensively while holding the definite edge defensively.

It's a tough choice huh.

And then rfs62 said this (in a nutshell)...



With all the talk about how hard EE is working on his defense, I'm sure they're evaluating his progress.

It's not hard to see that Narron is riding Rich's hot bat and probably sees his defense as stable. That's the combination that's keeping EE riding the pine.

redsmetz
07-20-2006, 10:31 PM
And just the day before those vets were responsible for 5 of the 7 runs scored.

We were 1 fer 12 with RISP, and stranded 12 runners.

It was a great pitching duel between two very good pitchers this year (Glavine is one of the elite this year).

It was a game inwhich we didn't capitalize on opportunities given (unlike on Wednesday)... and came down to a rookie mistake in the 10th.

But this year's team is nothing like last year's IMO.

I agree. This was a disappointing loss and we squandered loads of opportunities. That said, it's one game (and, yes, I know that was the difference in not making the playoffs in 99), and there will be more games before season's end. Pathetic is far to harsh a word. I think bad karma might fit it better. :)

Unassisted
07-21-2006, 12:09 AM
Day game after a night game. It doesn't bother me so much when the team looks flat in that circumstance.

oregonred
07-21-2006, 12:53 AM
Let's see... rubber match of the seven game season set with the NL's clear top team.

Came back from 4-0 last night and down 2-0 today (and yes they should have won the game and thus a 4-3 regular season mark but that's baseball).

Yeah this team stinks.

TOBTTReds
07-21-2006, 12:54 AM
hey guys, I dont disagree with anyone so far here.

Just to clear something up, I felt like TODAY's game only, was like one from last year. And that TODAY's game only, was pathetic. Not the team, not the season, just today. I don't think we are awful because of just one game.

As far as zone ratings go, the jury I think is still out on those. D'Angelo Jimenez used to have a great zone rating too, and I just didn't see it. I know Rich's was good last year too, but again, I just don't see him make many plays.

GAC, I did see the plays, that is why I mentioned them above your post, giving him props for the diving play, and the crazy hop play.

TOBTTReds
07-21-2006, 12:55 AM
Yeah this team stinks.

Who said that? I think I overreacted in my initial post, just as others are overreacting to what I said.

REDREAD
07-21-2006, 10:05 AM
Yesterday was just one of those games that you're destined to lose.
I really don't think you can pin it on Narron. I won't rehash the EdE getting PH controversy, but I think that was an ok move by Narron.

I did disagree with bunting the runner to 3rd with zero outs (I think).

We stranded a lot of runners in scoring position, and made that goof in the 10th.. It just wasn't meant to be.

GAC
07-21-2006, 10:14 AM
Day game after a night game. It doesn't bother me so much when the team looks flat in that circumstance.

And that is a very good point Una. ;)

redsrule2500
07-21-2006, 02:59 PM
I want Jack McKeon back

Jpup
07-21-2006, 03:50 PM
They have won 5 of 7 and the two losses were to the best team in the National League. I'm not worried about losing 2 of 3 to the Mets, although I think they could have had the one yesterday. This weekend will say a lot. They need, at least, two of them.