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View Full Version : Carlos Lee Traded from Brewers to Rangers



TheBigLebowski
07-28-2006, 11:39 AM
Along with Nelson Cruz and a PTBNL for Kevin Mench and Francisco Cordero.

Steal for Texas IMO.

Glad he went to TEX and not Houston.

Tornon
07-28-2006, 11:40 AM
Just in time

BRM
07-28-2006, 11:40 AM
Laynce Nix is also going to Milwaukee in the deal.


The Milwaukee Brewers are trading slugger Carlos Lee to the Texas Rangers as part of a multiplayer deal, ESPN.com learned Friday.

The Brewers are sending Lee, minor league outfield prospect Nelson Cruz to the Rangers for relief pitcher Francisco Cordero and outfielders Kevin Mench and Laynce Nix.

Lee was the Brewers' team leader with 28 home runs and 81 RBI.

Cordero started the season as the Rangers' closer, but was replaced by Akinori Otsuka in late April after blowing three saves.

Both teams are checking for any medical issues before consummating the deal.

The Rangers are currently two games behind the Athletics in the American League West.

LINK (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2532418)

Johnny Footstool
07-28-2006, 11:41 AM
...

westofyou
07-28-2006, 11:41 AM
There goes some air out of the Brewers clubhouse, this will bring the team down a bit mentally, time to go for the throat.

TheBigLebowski
07-28-2006, 11:42 AM
For you fantasy leaguers out there, Cordero makes a nice pickup as he will potentially assume closing duties.

Johnny Footstool
07-28-2006, 11:46 AM
Shrewd move by the Brewers. Lee turned down a big contract offer earlier this morning, so he was gone anyway. Mench is really not all that big of a dropoff from Lee, plus he's younger and cheaper. Getting Cordero strengthens their bullpen quite a bit.

RedsManRick
07-28-2006, 11:46 AM
Twins really dropped the ball here. Lee could've made them WC favorites at virtually no cost to their future success.

RedsFan75
07-28-2006, 11:51 AM
I already had Cordero on my Fantasy team, and Cliff Lee as well... .Hmmm.....

Joseph
07-28-2006, 11:51 AM
As stated, excellent timing for the Reds.

zombie-a-go-go
07-28-2006, 11:52 AM
So does this mean the Brewers are waving the flag? I'm not familiar with the players MIL is recieving.

Chip R
07-28-2006, 11:55 AM
Mench really hit well against the Reds a few years ago when they played a series against TEX.

TheBigLebowski
07-28-2006, 11:55 AM
Cordero is a former closer...quality reliever. Mench is a pretty average OF. Same for Nix.

So much for all this babble by the talking heads that Milwuakee was the team to beat in the 2nd half. This trade is it for them this season.

Red Leader
07-28-2006, 11:56 AM
I don't see it as MIL waiving the flag. They knew they weren't going to resign Carlos Lee. They got a less productive hitter in Mench, but he's a decent bat to replace Lee with, and they got a closer to take over for Turnbow. So, they haven't given up, they've just restructured.

flyer85
07-28-2006, 11:58 AM
So does this mean the Brewers are waving the flag? Not really, they are sacrificing offense for a bullpen arm. No young prospects involved in this deal.

BTW, I see Cordero as a much better bet to pitch well than a guy like Majewski.

VR
07-28-2006, 12:00 PM
How's that value for value, dollar for dollar stacking up against the Reds trade?

Falls City Beer
07-28-2006, 12:01 PM
How's that value for value, dollar for dollar stacking up against the Reds trade?

Infinitely better.

dabvu2498
07-28-2006, 12:04 PM
Mench is a pretty average OF. Same for Nix.

Nix was once fairly highly thought-of, but has only gotten 34 PAs in 9 games for them this year.

BRM
07-28-2006, 12:04 PM
Infinitely better.

The Brewers gave up more than Cincy did though, right? I would think Carlos Lee has more value than Lopez/Kearns.

Falls City Beer
07-28-2006, 12:05 PM
The Brewers gave up more than Cincy did though, right? I would think Carlos Lee has more value than Lopez/Kearns.

Not combined. Not in terms of contract status. Lee is going to make a ton of cash next year and he's on the downward tilt of his career.

BRM
07-28-2006, 12:06 PM
What kind of prospect is Nelson Cruz?

flyer85
07-28-2006, 12:11 PM
What kind of prospect is Nelson Cruz?at 25 a bit long in the tooth but certainly better than Nix.

I like the Texas end of this deal. Cruz is likely to be a better player than either Mench or Nix.

AAA Numbers
371 20 73 .378 .528 .302

Johnny Footstool
07-28-2006, 12:13 PM
How's that value for value, dollar for dollar stacking up against the Reds trade?

Somewhat better, I'd say. Lee was gone in 2 months anyway (he turned down a good offer from the Brewers earlier today). Mench is a reasonable replacement for him. Plus they acquired a quality bullpen arm in Cordero.

Overall, I think it works out to be about even (maybe a slight downgrade) for this season, and it leaves Milwaukee in better shape for the next couple of seasons.

edabbs44
07-28-2006, 12:14 PM
Not combined. Not in terms of contract status. Lee is going to make a ton of cash next year and he's on the downward tilt of his career.
Lee is also a free agent next year.

flyer85
07-28-2006, 12:18 PM
IIRC, Cordero has an expensive option for next year making it likely he is a rental. Heck I think Cruz has more upside than either Mench or Nix.

IslandRed
07-28-2006, 12:19 PM
It leaves Milwaukee in better shape for the next couple of seasons.

Maybe. Cordero has an expensive option for '07 and he'll have to regain his closer form to justify picking it up. If they don't, then a close-to-free-agency Kevin Mench isn't much of a return for Lee and Cruz.

dabvu2498
07-28-2006, 12:20 PM
Mench is also one of those guys with "old player" skills at a fairly young age.

flyer85
07-28-2006, 12:21 PM
Mench is also one of those guys with "old player" skills at a fairly young age.I suspect that sub 800 OPS in Texas won't play well in Milwaukee.

dabvu2498
07-28-2006, 12:24 PM
I suspect that sub 800 OPS in Texas won't play well in Milwaukee.
In fairness, his career OPS is .815 and this season's has been brought down by an awful month and a half (mid-May through June). His post-ASG numbers are good. But I wouldn't expect them to go anywhere near Lee's ever.

Red Leader
07-28-2006, 12:26 PM
Texas now has a scary good offense.

Gary Matthews
Michael Young
Mark Teixeira (who is starting to hit like the Teixeira of old)
Carlos Lee
Hank Blalock
Ian Kinsler

Roy Tucker
07-28-2006, 12:27 PM
I'm just glad Lee is gone. He did bad things to the Reds.

Red Leader
07-28-2006, 12:29 PM
I'm just glad Lee is gone. He did bad things to the Reds.

I agree. This does help the Reds this year, and that's the most important thing.

Falls City Beer
07-28-2006, 12:30 PM
I agree. This does help the Reds this year, and that's the most important thing.

It certainly helps the Reds tonight, as the Brews will be shorthanded.

But then again, the Reds have Milton going tonight, so it may not matter.

dabvu2498
07-28-2006, 12:30 PM
Texas now has a scary good offense.

Gary Matthews
Michael Young
Mark Teixeira (who is starting to hit like the Teixeira of old)
Carlos Lee
Hank Blalock
Ian Kinsler
Mark Derosa's done some nice things for them as well and their catching combo of Barajas and Laird (.927 OPS).

LincolnparkRed
07-28-2006, 12:31 PM
too bad Billy Hall couldn't have somehow been included

redsfan30
07-28-2006, 12:32 PM
Texas now has a scary good offense.

Gary Matthews
Michael Young
Mark Teixeira (who is starting to hit like the Teixeira of old)
Carlos Lee
Hank Blalock
Ian Kinsler
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Thank God that's in the American Leauge!

Johnny Footstool
07-28-2006, 12:43 PM
Mench is also one of those guys with "old player" skills at a fairly young age.

Nah, he's too allergic to walks.

He is actually a similar type of hitter to Carlos Lee -- early- to mid-count hitter with a lot of power.

Red Leader
07-28-2006, 12:51 PM
Nah, he's too allergic to walks.

He is actually a similar type of hitter to Carlos Lee -- early- to mid-count hitter with a lot of power.

Mench's OPS is pretty bad away from Arlington. It will be interesting to see how he performs from now until the end of the season.

Gallen5862
07-28-2006, 01:22 PM
I just picked up Cordero in one of my leagues. He is on waivers in my other one.

RBA
07-28-2006, 01:23 PM
Texas now has a scary good offense.

Gary Matthews
Michael Young
Mark Teixeira (who is starting to hit like the Teixeira of old)
Carlos Lee
Hank Blalock
Ian Kinsler

Didn't they have a scary lineup a few years ago with A-Rod and I-Rod? What did that get them?

Heath
07-28-2006, 01:37 PM
I don't see it as MIL waiving the flag. They knew they weren't going to resign Carlos Lee. They got a less productive hitter in Mench, but he's a decent bat to replace Lee with, and they got a closer to take over for Turnbow. So, they haven't given up, they've just restructured.

The Brewers have been retstructuring since 1983.

New owner, same old Brewers.

RANDY IN INDY
07-28-2006, 02:19 PM
Now, if they just trade Weeks and Hall, the Reds will be in good shape.;) I really hate to watch the Reds and Brewers. They give the Reds fits.

RedsFan75
07-28-2006, 02:30 PM
Lee hitting in the ballpark in Arlington is a scary thought...

Here's hoping that this trade deflates them a bit and they are on the down swing. Sure hope it doesn't fire them up.

KronoRed
07-28-2006, 03:38 PM
Lee hitting in the ballpark in Arlington is a scary thought...

Here's hoping that this trade deflates them a bit and they are on the down swing. Sure hope it doesn't fire them up.
Fired the Reds up to lose Kearns

Uh oh ;)

RedLegSuperStar
07-28-2006, 04:45 PM
Along with Nelson Cruz and a PTBNL for Kevin Mench and Francisco Cordero.

Steal for Texas IMO.

Glad he went to TEX and not Houston.

Steal for Texas??

The Brewers get them a more reliable Closer, and get to fairly young vetern outfielders for Nelson Cruz and soon to be free-agent Carlos Lee. I love this deal for Milwalkee. Unfortunatly we go into a series with them. I don't think they will be in uniform tonight since the trade happened this afternoon but tomorrow will be interesting. Way to stock pile talent Brew Crew.

I think the Reds need a 5th starter out of this deadline. Milwalkee is 6 games back in the wild card and I think this deal improved them with getting a closer and servicable replacement for Lee's bat in Mench. Sure Texas got a power hitter who may just give them the firepower to make a run in the West. Good trade for both teams but I just feel in the long run Brewers made out nicely.

CTA513
07-28-2006, 04:46 PM
Steal for Texas??

The Brewers get them a more reliable Closer, and get to fairly young vetern outfielders for Nelson Cruz and soon to be free-agent Carlos Lee. I love this deal for Milwalkee. Unfortunatly we go into a series with them. I don't think they will be in uniform tonight since the trade happened this afternoon but tomorrow will be interesting. Way to stock pile talent Brew Crew.

I think the Reds need a 5th starter out of this deadline. Milwalkee is 6 games back in the wild card and I think this deal improved them with getting a closer and servicable replacement for Lee's bat in Mench. Sure Texas got a power hitter who may just give them the firepower to make a run in the West. Good trade for both teams but I just feel in the long run Brewers made out nicely.

Cordero is 6 for 15 in save opportunities this year.

RedLegSuperStar
07-28-2006, 04:50 PM
Cordero is 6 for 15 in save opportunities this year.

Mind you Everyday Eddie Guardado?

I'd put Cordero in over Turnbow

CTA513
07-28-2006, 04:54 PM
Mind you Everyday Eddie Guardado?

I'd put Cordero in over Turnbow

Guardado had 3 blown saves before coming to the Reds, Cordero has 9 blown saves.

Red Leader
07-28-2006, 04:56 PM
Steal for Texas??

The Brewers get them a more reliable Closer, and get to fairly young vetern outfielders for Nelson Cruz and soon to be free-agent Carlos Lee. I love this deal for Milwalkee. Unfortunatly we go into a series with them. I don't think they will be in uniform tonight since the trade happened this afternoon but tomorrow will be interesting. Way to stock pile talent Brew Crew.

I think the Reds need a 5th starter out of this deadline. Milwalkee is 6 games back in the wild card and I think this deal improved them with getting a closer and servicable replacement for Lee's bat in Mench. Sure Texas got a power hitter who may just give them the firepower to make a run in the West. Good trade for both teams but I just feel in the long run Brewers made out nicely.

Carlos Lee was a premier RH bat on the market. Nelson Cruz has more talent and probably a higher ceiling than Mench or Nix. If Lee walks at the end of the year, the Rangers already have his replacement in Cruz. Cordero was expendable for the Rangers. Mench is obviously replaced by Lee, a big upgrade for the rest of the season. Mench is arbitration eligible and likely to get more than he's worth (similar to Lopez). Nix has flat out been a bust. He could improve, but he'll never reach the ceiling that Cruz has. The Brewers could have gotten a decent haul in prospects by trading Lee. Instead they got 3 average players with major league experience.

VR
07-28-2006, 04:59 PM
Cordero is 6 for 15 in save opportunities this year.

yeah, but he's only making 4.5mil;)

oneupper
07-28-2006, 05:46 PM
MIL comes out great IMO. Their bp has been horrendous. Cordero will probably close.

Mench can hit and this might entice them to go with a platoon for Jenkins (who has been pretty bad OPS.448 vs LHP). Nix doesn't really fit..but he's only 26. Brewers already have Clark, Gross and Hart as CF.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed this weekend...hope we can take the series.
Don't like the matchups at all.

Glad we don't have to play these guys after this series. They are going to be tougher, IMO.

Matt700wlw
07-28-2006, 06:25 PM
What a shame, Milton/Germano/Harang don't get to face him this weekend.

Doc. Scott
07-28-2006, 07:11 PM
More importantly, the trade helps the Reds win the upcoming series in Miller Park, since Lee's gone and I doubt Mench or Cordero will be in uniform until Sunday at the earliest.

GriffeyFan
07-28-2006, 07:21 PM
Infinitely better.

I think the Brewers could have done much better than that. Mench and Lee have yet to establish themselves despite getting the opportunities. Cordero may or may not be a closer again.

Milwaukee should have gotten some prospects on the cusp, not some average major leaguers.

traderumor
07-28-2006, 11:20 PM
I think the Brewers could have done much better than that. Mench and Lee have yet to establish themselves despite getting the opportunities. Cordero may or may not be a closer again.

Milwaukee should have gotten some prospects on the cusp, not some average major leaguers.Yes, I think the Brewers held onto Lee too long and did not really get anything meaningful for him. Cordero? Name recognition. His best throws are of chairs. Mench is barely average. I would be disappointed as a Brewers fan, it looks like same old same old.

SteelSD
07-29-2006, 12:10 AM
Yes, I think the Brewers held onto Lee too long and did not really get anything meaningful for him. Cordero? Name recognition. His best throws are of chairs. Mench is barely average. I would be disappointed as a Brewers fan, it looks like same old same old.

Considering that Carlos Lee was almost certain to walk away from the Brewers after this season, I think Melvin actually did a more-than-reasonable job of helping his club.

Mench resembles Carlos Lee circa 2003 and circa 2005, although leaving Texas might impact Mench's power numbers (to be fair, we do need to mention that). Nix needs to fix his plate discipline (something Melvin stated almost word-for-word during tonight's game). Nix knows how to walk but has seemed recently disinterested. I've had my eye on him for a while because if he's coached to remember the whole "balls and strikes" thing, he's got the potential to explode in Center Field.

Francisco Cordero has pitched far better than his current ERA. His BABIP entering tonight was .341. Even with that astounding BABIP, his OPSA was .706 with the Rangers. His DIPS ERA was 3.37. He's kept his K rate at nearly 10.00 per 9IP and hasn't allowed a ton of HR- especially considering his previous park. He's been just about the unluckiest pitcher in the American League in 2006 while playing for a team that's been exactly as good as the 2006 Cincinnati Reds defensively (read: bad).

In Carlos Lee, the Rangers acquired a player who appears determined to test the Free Agent waters after this season. That's the downside. And it's a big-time downside because that would leave the Rangers with only...

...Nelson Cruz has been putting up good numbers in the minors. He's demonstrated decent plate discipline as a minor leaguer. He's 26 years old and has consistently played old for his competition level. He's got a chance though and his inclusion may have been simply as a backup plan for Texas should they be unable to re-sign Lee (that way Texas wouldn't be coming away with nothing). I'd respectfully suggest that, to Melvin, Nelson Cruz was the guy on the outside looking in. Not saying he's right in that evaluation. Just commenting on possible motivation for including him.

Considering the situational dynamics, this was a decent trade for both teams. Lots of complexities and still three days to deal.

SteelSD
07-29-2006, 12:10 AM
Dup post. Grrrrr....

Cedric
07-29-2006, 12:12 AM
You just love to hear yourself talk.

:) :)