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chettt
07-28-2006, 02:56 PM
Does anyone know if Royce Clayton is signed past this year? I have always liked Cesar Izturis of the Dodgers. Much younger version of Clayton, great fielder, average (hitting) stats for a shortstop.

Benihana
07-28-2006, 02:57 PM
Brandon Phillips is the SS of the future. Period.

I just don't understand why he couldn't have been the SS of the 2nd half.

zombie-a-go-go
07-28-2006, 02:57 PM
I fear for the future. ;)

Brandon Phillips or bust.

princeton
07-28-2006, 03:00 PM
Paul Janisch thread?

Tornon
07-28-2006, 03:07 PM
Anderson Machado?

Matt700wlw
07-28-2006, 03:22 PM
Move Rich to SS for this year...then EE, Hatte, and Rich can all play.


This isn't that difficult.



Next season, Brandon Phillips takes over.

RANDY IN INDY
07-28-2006, 03:26 PM
Move Rich to SS for this year...then EE, Hatte, and Rich can all play.


This isn't that difficult.



Next season, Brandon Phillips takes over.

Wouldn't take the pitching staff long to not like that move.

RANDY IN INDY
07-28-2006, 03:27 PM
Phillips should get the shot next season.

Red Leader
07-28-2006, 03:30 PM
Brandon Phillips is the SS of the future. Period.

I just don't understand why he couldn't have been the SS of the 2nd half.

The bigger question to me is 2nd baseman of the future....

Brandon Harris, Olmedo, Bergolla. Are any of these guys going to be ready to step up next year?

Benihana
07-28-2006, 03:36 PM
Can someone please explain to me why BP can't move over to SS in the middle of the season? It's not like he hasn't played there before. Then, Aurillia, Hat, EdE and Freel could all be in the lineup without a huge defensive liability.

M2
07-28-2006, 03:39 PM
I prefer Phillips as a 2B. He seems to have hit his stride there and, long-term, 2B is the place I'd like to keep him (though he'd be my SS with the current Reds roster).

I remain smitten with Erick Aybar.

PuffyPig
07-28-2006, 03:45 PM
SS :Phillips

2nd :Freel

This year and next.

Red in Chicago
07-28-2006, 03:48 PM
SS :Phillips

2nd :Freel

This year and next.


love your thinking:thumbup:

BRM
07-28-2006, 03:54 PM
love your thinking:thumbup:

I'm pretty sure Jerry doesn't.

RedsManRick
07-28-2006, 04:01 PM
Of all NL SS with at least 100 AB this year, Izturis is 22nd of 24 in terms of OPS. That is not average, that's very bad. "Maybe he's just slumping" you say. Then I point out that Izturis has a career OPS of .631.

Yes, he's a gold glove caliber defender. However, you are right in your comparison with Royce Clayton. Royce Clayton, by virtue of his skill and longevity, has cost his team more runs with the bat than any player in history other than Neifi Perez. Average is David Eckstein. It's Felipe Lopez, excluding last year.

I am not against having a strong defensive SS. But don't make the mistake of thinking that a GG doesn't have to have a modicum of offensive ability -- or underestimate how bad an offensive player that guy may be. As visable as errors or a lack of range are, every analysis we're able to do suggests that a poor fielder but good batter is of much more value than the inverse.

Benihana
07-28-2006, 04:03 PM
I remain smitten with Erick Aybar.


Moreso than Brandon Wood? With the current roster, I agree Phillips at SS and Freel at 2B is the way to go, although given our manager I could live with Aurillia at 2B and Freel in RF for the rest of this year.

M2
07-28-2006, 04:06 PM
Moreso than Brandon Wood?

I doubt Wood's going to play much SS in the bigs. Aybar could win multiple Gold Gloves.

REDREAD
07-28-2006, 04:13 PM
Phillips is getting comfortable and producing in 2006 for the first time in his career. He seems to have a pretty fragile psych. I wouldn't risk jerking him around to another position. Let's let him finish out the year at 2b. Maybe next year you move him to SS, although I'd prefer not to.

Nearly every one of the Reds' many position shifting experiments has backfired. We're in the wild card race now, I'd prefer not to experiment and risk mucking up Phillips. Remember what happened when Aaron Boone shifted to 2b? He never got comfortable, and it effected his hitting and defense.

Matt700wlw
07-28-2006, 04:18 PM
Wouldn't take the pitching staff long to not like that move.


It's the only way to get all 3 bats in there at the same time, unless you put Rich at 2nd and move Phillips to SS now...

deltachi8
07-28-2006, 04:31 PM
Phillips is getting comfortable and producing in 2006 for the first time in his career. He seems to have a pretty fragile psych. I wouldn't risk jerking him around to another position. Let's let him finish out the year at 2b. Maybe next year you move him to SS, although I'd prefer not to.

Nearly every one of the Reds' many position shifting experiments has backfired. We're in the wild card race now, I'd prefer not to experiment and risk mucking up Phillips. Remember what happened when Aaron Boone shifted to 2b? He never got comfortable, and it effected his hitting and defense.

Its not a position switch for Phillips. He is a SS, he came up as one in the minors and plays it well.

KronoRed
07-28-2006, 04:36 PM
SS :Phillips

2nd :Freel

This year and next.
They don't seem to like Freel at 2nd, and it's all about "supposed defense" to Narron.

corkedbat
07-28-2006, 05:31 PM
The future is now! Royce Clayton shall never die! :evil:

Chip R
07-28-2006, 05:41 PM
They don't seem to like Freel at 2nd, and it's all about "supposed defense" to Narron.

Freel's a better OFer than an IFer. He can use his speed more effectively out there.

NC Reds
07-28-2006, 05:56 PM
I wish Janish was a better hitter. He has made only 6 errors all year at SS. Compare that to 18 errors for supposedly slick-fielding Andy Machado.

Matt700wlw
07-28-2006, 06:13 PM
They don't seem to like Freel at 2nd, and it's all about "supposed defense" to Narron.

There's only so much scrappiness one infield can handle.

GAC
07-28-2006, 06:31 PM
Phillips should get the shot next season.

Yep. But I also read a rumor where TB's Lugo may be available.

wheels
07-28-2006, 07:57 PM
I want no part of Lugo.

His defense is only going to get worse as he ages, as will his bat.

Giving him a big contract wouldn't be prudent for the Reds.

KronoRed
07-28-2006, 08:00 PM
There's only so much scrappiness one infield can handle.
Real scrappy knows no limit

KronoRed
07-28-2006, 08:01 PM
Lugo? we already have a Castro

GAC
07-28-2006, 08:45 PM
Freel's a better OFer than an IFer. He can use his speed more effectively out there.

Yeah! In the OF, the wrecking machine can only take out Griffey.

In the INF he'd take out both the SS and 3Bman! :lol:

GAC
07-28-2006, 09:59 PM
Ok - I'll take Bill Hall ;)

GAC
07-28-2006, 10:00 PM
Lugo? we already have a Castro

Uh! Mabe you should do a little more comparative stats steady on the two.

No comparison offensively. ;)

4256 Hits
07-28-2006, 10:44 PM
Keep in mind that the Reds have a million dollar option on Castro that I would guess that there is about an 80% chance that Wayne will pick up. Not saying he will be starting but he will be the back-up.

boobhat
07-29-2006, 05:51 AM
Anderson Machado?

dap for this

RANDY IN INDY
07-29-2006, 06:21 AM
I would love to have Cesar Izturis to team with Brandon Phillips in the middle of the Reds infield. I watched him last night against the Nationals. Had a homerun, and while not a homerun hitter, I think the guy would take off with the Reds in Great American Ballpark. With Freel, Izturis and Phillips, the Reds would have a lot of speed in the lineup.

chettt
07-29-2006, 12:19 PM
Update from my original post. Dodgers has acquired Wilson Betemit from the Braves. Cesar Izturis will once again be without a starting position when Jeff Kent comes off the DL next week.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-29-2006, 12:22 PM
Lugo is currently negotiating with TB. He wants 4 years at 9 Mil per.

LOL

GAC
07-29-2006, 12:37 PM
Lugo is currently negotiating with TB. He wants 4 years at 9 Mil per.

LOL

He won't be playing for TB then. :lol:

He is having a career year at TB - .309 BA + .371 OB% = .875 OPS (12 dingers)

I'm sure that is influencing his contract demands; but if anyone falls for it, then they are fools. The guy is a career .751 OPS guy (slightly above league avg for SSs).

BuckeyeRedleg
07-29-2006, 12:39 PM
He won't be playing for TB then. :lol:

He is having a career year at TB - .309 BA + .371 OB% = .875 OPS (12 dingers)

I'm sure that is influencing his contract demands; but if anyone falls for it, then they are fools. The guy is a career .751 OPS guy (slightly above league avg for SSs).

no doubt and I would hope the Reds stay very far away from this guy.

redsandrails
07-29-2006, 02:40 PM
I'd go after Itzurus too... Eventually when Mueller comes back he'll be displayed again. And the Dodgers were even talking about Tejada. Would be a good move to snag him IMO then flip Clayton to a team like the Jays.

GAC
07-29-2006, 02:53 PM
no doubt and I would hope the Reds stay very far away from this guy.

There's not a chance. They had a comparable player, and muc cheaper even with a contract coming up, in Lopez.

Krivsky has options. I personally think they'll move Phillips to SS next season, and try to fill the void at 2B. And that could very well be a Freel (with an RA backup & platoon at 1B w/ Hat).

We'll see. But they do have options.

KronoRed
07-29-2006, 05:06 PM
Lugo is currently negotiating with TB. He wants 4 years at 9 Mil per.

LOL
They can have him :eek:

StillFunkyB
07-30-2006, 09:45 AM
Paul Janisch thread?

I like Paul as well. Not sure why. Maybe it's just because I watched the CWS that year.

Unfortunately he might not ever have a stick good enough for the big leagues. I would love to eat crow on that thought.

DoogMinAmo
07-30-2006, 11:03 AM
Ok - I'll take Bill Hall ;)

The Brewers will have a decisionto make this offseason between Hall andJJ Hardy. Could Wayne capitalize?

pahster
07-30-2006, 11:16 AM
I'd go after Itzurus too... Eventually when Mueller comes back he'll be displayed again. And the Dodgers were even talking about Tejada. Would be a good move to snag him IMO then flip Clayton to a team like the Jays.

Why would the Blue Jays, a team that values stats like OBP and OPS, want Clayton?

KronoRed
07-30-2006, 04:28 PM
We won't trade Clayton..he's our "starter" ;)