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PuffyPig
07-28-2006, 04:01 PM
The Cubs just scored 6 runs in the bottom of the 2nd to lead the Cards 6-3.

Marquis knocked out.

For the 2nd game in a row, a Rolen error costs the Cards big time.

Gee, blowing a lead, key errors costing many runs...does this mean the Cards aren't a contender?

Matt700wlw
07-28-2006, 04:03 PM
Maybe the Reds can take the Central afterall......I haven't lost hope!



What a fun year!

:dancingco:roll::roll::dancingco

37red
07-28-2006, 04:05 PM
Gee Puffy, I like the image, but if we went with that theory would anyone be a contender? I'll take a St. Louis loss either way though.

Outshined_One
07-28-2006, 04:05 PM
Cubs are 7-3 against the Cardinals this season.

Todd Walker also accidentally put on Neifi Perez's jersey after a quick change in the locker room. Heh.

Reds1
07-28-2006, 04:12 PM
Update. Still 6-3 in the sixth, but two on and 1 out for the cardinals.

RBA
07-28-2006, 04:13 PM
I haven't given up hope for the Central title like others have.

15fan
07-28-2006, 04:25 PM
After playing at Chicago through the weekend, the Cards get the Phillies & Brewers at home.

Then it's 4 in Cincinnati, 3 in Pittsburgh, then 3 at home against the Reds.

Reds & Cards won't play again after the series in St. Loo.

PuffyPig
07-28-2006, 04:25 PM
Gee Puffy, I like the image, but if we went with that theory would anyone be a contender? I'll take a St. Louis loss either way though.
It was (jokingly) in response to some comments made on Wednesday evening when the Reds blew the 5-1 lead with the help of some bad fielding. The theory was that the Reds couldn't be considered contenders if that happened.

I made the same comment you did, it happens to all teams.

PuffyPig
07-28-2006, 04:41 PM
6-5 now, Cards mounting a comeback.

Johnny Footstool
07-28-2006, 04:50 PM
If the Cardinals don't pull off a deal for an SP and possibly another hitter before the deadline, they're *extremely* beatable.

KronoRed
07-28-2006, 04:59 PM
6-5 now, Cards mounting a comeback.
I blame you jinxing it :evil:

Falls City Beer
07-28-2006, 05:05 PM
If the Cardinals don't pull off a deal for an SP and possibly another hitter before the deadline, they're *extremely* beatable.

No, they're not--not by anyone in the Central. That bullpen is just too much. You can have two starters, a bullpen, and accomplish a whole lot.

37red
07-28-2006, 05:08 PM
the cards can't win, they're not contenders, I'm a believer in Puffy

BRM
07-28-2006, 05:09 PM
If the Cardinals don't pull off a deal for an SP and possibly another hitter before the deadline, they're *extremely* beatable.

That sounds similar to what quite a few are saying about the Reds.

Matt700wlw
07-28-2006, 05:11 PM
No, they're not--not by anyone in the Central. That bullpen is just too much. You can have two starters, a bullpen, and accomplish a whole lot.

I'm pretty sure the Reds have a winning record against them so far this season.

PuffyPig
07-28-2006, 05:14 PM
No, they're not--not by anyone in the Central. That bullpen is just too much. You can have two starters, a bullpen, and accomplish a whole lot.

Carpenter......who's that 2nd starter? The stats of 2-5 are closer to Milton's than anyone else in our rotation.

Mulder????? Yeah right. Joe Mays says Hi.

Falls City Beer
07-28-2006, 05:14 PM
I'm pretty sure the Reds have a winning record against them so far this season.

That's the upside. The Reds still hold their destiny very much in their hands.

Falls City Beer
07-28-2006, 05:16 PM
Carpenter......who's that 2nd starter? The stats of 2-5 are closer to Milton's than anyone else in our rotation.

Suppan's pitching far better than anyone not named Aaron Harang in our rotation. Mulder will be back. And Reyes has put up some interesting peripherals.

RedsManRick
07-28-2006, 05:19 PM
Suppan's pitching far better than anyone not named Aaron Harang in our rotation. Mulder will be back. And Reyes has put up some interesting peripherals.

Elizardo Ramirez says hi.

Ltlabner
07-28-2006, 05:20 PM
Suppan's pitching far better than anyone not named Aaron Harang in our rotation. Mulder will be back. And Reyes has put up some interesting peripherals.

And Lizzard can't strike anybody out..... ;)

PuffyPig
07-28-2006, 05:20 PM
Suppan's pitching far better than anyone not named Aaron Harang in our rotation. Mulder will be back. And Reyes has put up some interesting peripherals.

Reyes? His peripherals (which he can control) are such that his DIPS ERA is worse than his actual ERA. He's pitched badly, yet has also been BABIP lucky. He's going to have to pitch much better to show any improvement, as he's more likely headed downward.

VR
07-28-2006, 05:24 PM
Cards lose...4 back.

PuffyPig
07-28-2006, 05:24 PM
Cards lose. Cubs pitch to Pujols with 2 outs, he grounds out. he is human after all.

Card fans are saying he's looked bad at the plate recently. I assume they mean "for Pujols". He should walk a mile in Griffey's shoes.

37red
07-28-2006, 05:26 PM
yes, cubs win

RedsManRick
07-28-2006, 05:27 PM
Jeff Suppan: 115 IP, 20 GS, 8-6, 4.98 ERA, 1.53 WHIP, 60 SO, 46 BB
Eric Milton: 100.1 IP, 16 GS, 6-6, 5.47 ERA, 1.29 WHIP, 61 SO, 29 BB

So Milton gives up fewer hits and fewer walks and strikes more guys out. He just gives up a few more homers. Basically, these guys are equal value and yet somehow Suppan is a plus for the Cards?

An aside, Milton would be a decent pitcher if he played for the Nationals or Dodgers. Outside of his homer problems, he's not horrible.

37red
07-28-2006, 05:28 PM
maybe Pujols would like to come to a contender?

Falls City Beer
07-28-2006, 05:29 PM
Jeff Suppan: 115 IP, 20 GS, 8-6, 4.98 ERA, 1.53 WHIP, 60 SO, 46 BB
Eric Milton: 100.1 IP, 16 GS, 6-6, 5.47 ERA, 1.29 WHIP, 61 SO, 29 BB

So Milton gives up fewer hits and fewer walks and strikes more guys out. He just gives up a few more homers. Basically, these guys are equal value and yet somehow Suppan is a plus for the Cards?

An aside, Milton would be a decent pitcher if he played for the Nationals or Dodgers. Outside of his homer problems, he's not horrible.


I'm not arguing that Suppan hasn't been horrible so far this season. But if you're suggesting that Suppan is somehow, historically, as bad as Milton...well, you're just being kooky or coy.

Johnny Footstool
07-28-2006, 05:33 PM
I don't fear any of the Cards starters aside from Carpenter.

PuffyPig
07-28-2006, 05:33 PM
That's 2 games in arow where the winning run is atributable to a Rolen error.

It happens to the best of them.

RedsManRick
07-28-2006, 05:42 PM
I'm not arguing that Suppan hasn't been horrible so far this season. But if you're suggesting that Suppan is somehow, historically, as bad as Milton...well, you're just being kooky or coy.

Well, Suppan has a career ERA of 4.68 and WHIP of 1.42, K/9 of 5.05, OOPS of .788. None of those are good -- at all. He's a #4 starter who had what will likely be his career year in 2005.

Milton has a career ERA of 5.02 and WHIP of 1.33, K/9 of 6.47, OOPS of .776. The ERA is bad, the WHIP is and K/9 are decent. It's simply homers with him. If he gives up homers, he's bad, if he doesn't he's good.

Their career (and future) value is actually quite comprable. Milton is 8 months younger and made 40 fewer career starts. Both have pitched about 2/3 of their career in the AL. I would actually contend that Milton is the better pitcher because his struggles are partly environmental, as the last 3 years his park has exacerbated his extreme flyball tendencies. Suppan meanwhile, is just pretty hittable.

Falls City Beer
07-28-2006, 05:51 PM
Well, Suppan has a career ERA of 4.68 and WHIP of 1.42, K/9 of 5.05, OOPS of .788. None of those are good -- at all. He's a #4 starter who had what will likely be his career year in 2005.

Milton has a career ERA of 5.02 and WHIP of 1.33, K/9 of 6.47, OOPS of .776. The ERA is bad, the WHIP is and K/9 are decent. It's simply homers with him. If he gives up homers, he's bad, if he doesn't he's good.

Their career (and future) value is actually quite comprable. Milton is 8 months younger and made 40 fewer career starts. Both have pitched about 2/3 of their career in the AL. I would actually contend that Milton is the better pitcher because his struggles are partly environmental, as the last 3 years his park has exacerbated his extreme flyball tendencies. Suppan meanwhile, is just pretty hittable.

Over the last three years, Suppan has been worth infinitely more than Milton. Suppan has actually helped his team while Milton has literally gutted the team's morale almost single-handedly.

RedsManRick
07-28-2006, 06:08 PM
Over the last three years, Suppan has been worth infinitely more than Milton. Suppan has actually helped his team while Milton has literally gutted the team's morale almost single-handedly.

Well, Milton did go for 201 IP with a 4.75 ERA in Philly. While that's nothing to brag about, it's not "morale gutting" either. Even so, the fault is in the utilization on Milton. A flyball pitcher on a team with a homer friendly park and a range limited OF is bound to fail. Milton hasn't really pitched any differently the last 3 years than in his Suppan like years in Minnesota -- he's just been put in a situation that was absolutely horrible for him. Suppan meanwhile, a groundball guy has been given a very good defense behind him. In fact, you could argue he is in an ideal situtation for his stuff.

Again, don't get me wrong. Neither guy is, nor should be, a key piece of a winning rotation. But to paint Suppan as a solid contributor in and of his own abilityand Milton as an abject loser is to simply ignore the context of their performances. These guys are comprable pitchers; one is in a very favorable situation, the other a very unfavorable. Their performances the last 3 years reflect that.

PuffyPig
07-28-2006, 06:35 PM
Well, Milton did go for 201 IP with a 4.75 ERA in Philly. While that's nothing to brag about, it's not "morale gutting" either.

Especially when he went 14-6 and made the all star team. Now, he wasn't a great pitcher than year, we know that. But, it couldn't have been "morale gutting" to his team who knew that they were generally winning when he was pitching that year.

Jpup
07-29-2006, 11:36 AM
Reyes? His peripherals (which he can control) are such that his DIPS ERA is worse than his actual ERA. He's pitched badly, yet has also been BABIP lucky. He's going to have to pitch much better to show any improvement, as he's more likely headed downward.

If you look up Reyes in the dictionary, it will refer you to overrated.

redsrule2500
07-29-2006, 11:39 AM
Well if we can just sweep them in the next two series, 7-0 - we should reclaim first place :)

Jpup
07-29-2006, 11:40 AM
Well if we can just sweep them in the next two series, 7-0 - we should reclaim first place :)

I hope so, but I'll take 4-3.