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Matt700wlw
07-28-2006, 07:29 PM
(I know...another Zito thread) :p:

Rumored to the Mets IF they give up Milledge (not sure if there's more to that).


I've said Dunn for Zito before, but I'm not trading Dunn now...no way, no how...the offense would die if he goes now.

Would the Reds have anything equal to what the Mets would have to give up (preferably not named Homer Bailey)?


I would absolutely LOVE to see him in a Reds uniform, as unlikely as it is.

Brutus
07-28-2006, 07:31 PM
I think it's clear the Reds could use one more No. 1 - 3 starter, whether it's Zito, Dontrelle Willis or even a Greg Maddux.

Someone that's reliable enough to join Harang and Arroyo down the stretch and be dependable enough to start in the playoffs if the Reds can make it.

StRedlegs900
07-28-2006, 07:33 PM
While Zito would be great to have as a Red, there would be no point in trading for him. He would be nothing but a rental for this year, and we would have to mortgage our future in order to acquire him.

He most likely ends up in NY, Boston, or any other big market after this year anyhow. Doubtful that the Reds would be able to re-sign him.

Matt700wlw
07-28-2006, 07:34 PM
While Zito would be great to have as a Red, there would be no point in trading for him. He would be nothing but a rental for this year, and we would have to mortgage our future in order to acquire him.

He most likely ends up in NY, Boston, or any other big market after this year anyhow. Doubtful that the Reds would be able to re-sign him.

I should have added, I would only want him if the Reds are able to give him a deal to keep him here another couple of years.

StRedlegs900
07-28-2006, 07:36 PM
I should have added, I would only want him if the Reds are able to give him a deal to keep him here another couple of years.

Then I, for one, will definitely agree with you on that note! :D

dunner13
07-28-2006, 07:37 PM
Maddux is interesting. Take on his salary and you shouldnt have to give the cubs to much back. Hes struggled alot lately but just his influence on our other pitchers could lower our team ERA. Plus put him on a contender down the stretch and i bet he steps it up and pitches pretty well. He may not go more than 6 innings but he could be a great #5 starter for us.

fisch11
07-28-2006, 07:38 PM
I would think Jay Bruce would draw the same amount of value as Lastings Milledge. Milledge has gotten more national attention having played in the majors this year however. I wouldn't like to see our CF post-Griffey go though.

Brutus
07-28-2006, 07:42 PM
Dunner, great post.

I agree completely. I would trust Maddux when it counts to turn on his best performance regardless of how he's pitched lately.

vermilion
07-28-2006, 08:09 PM
I disagree about Maddux. As a pitcher who relies almost entirely on pitching strategy rather than 'stuff', there really isn't anything for him to turn on. I'm sure he takes the same philosophy out to the mound now that he did in Atlanta ten years ago, but his fastball is simply much more hittable than it used to be and he's being hit harder now than at any point in his career. He still has the control to get it over the plate (a consistant BB rate with respect to his career), but his pitches don't have the late movement they once did.

Annnnnd... I don't think he'd waive his no trade clause to pitch here anyway :) Rumor has it he turned down a chance to go back to Atlanta, so I'm thinking Maddux is done and just wants to wrap the year in Chicago before calling it a day.

Joseph
07-28-2006, 08:18 PM
Word is the A's have asked for Milledge AND Pelfrey AND Duaner Sanchez.

Matt700wlw
07-28-2006, 08:20 PM
Word is the A's have asked for Milledge AND Pelfrey AND Duaner Sanchez.

I figured it was more than just Milledge...

vermilion
07-28-2006, 08:22 PM
Word is the A's have asked for Milledge AND Pelfrey AND Duaner Sanchez.

Who does Billy Beane think he is, Jim Bowden?

:D

ChatterRed
07-28-2006, 08:24 PM
The Reds have nothing to trade. They won't trade Bailey, Bruce or Votto.......and that's all they have.

corkedbat
07-28-2006, 08:44 PM
Word is the A's have asked for Milledge AND Pelfrey AND Duaner Sanchez.

Day'em! Let's acquire Zito and trade him to the Mets.

KalDanielsfan
07-28-2006, 08:46 PM
the talk out here in Los Angeles is that the Dodgers are the front runners behind the scenes in getting Zito..no joke

also dodgers are trying to get rid of Penny and Lowe..i would like to see Derek Lowe in a reds uniform. his sinker would do well in great american, and keep balls in the park

VWRED
07-28-2006, 08:48 PM
Zitto will be a Met If anywhere

KoryMac5
07-28-2006, 09:18 PM
I'm hearing the Mets latest offer has been Milledge and Heilman which if I was Beane I would take. If the Reds were to jump into the mix I would make sure we could sign him, no need for rentals.

dman
07-28-2006, 09:30 PM
the talk out here in Los Angeles is that the Dodgers are the front runners behind the scenes in getting Zito..no joke

also dodgers are trying to get rid of Penny and Lowe..i would like to see Derek Lowe in a reds uniform. his sinker would do well in great american, and keep balls in the park
I would have Maddux here before Lowe if I had my wheters about it. I believe a lot of Lowe's hype is inflated from that 2004 post-season and maybe 1 or 2 regular season totals. Though Maddux is older, he has remained consistant throughout his career.

KalDanielsfan
07-28-2006, 11:05 PM
LOL Im telling u he's either going to Anaheim or the Dodgers

where did Zito go to college people?

UC_Ken
07-29-2006, 12:13 AM
Usc?

Team Clark
07-29-2006, 12:29 AM
the talk out here in Los Angeles is that the Dodgers are the front runners behind the scenes in getting Zito..no joke

also dodgers are trying to get rid of Penny and Lowe..i would like to see Derek Lowe in a reds uniform. his sinker would do well in great american, and keep balls in the park

Lowe, with his good sinker could win 23 games. (My prediction) Does he get to bring that hot TV anchor with him?

Cedric
07-29-2006, 12:31 AM
If you can't pitch in Dodger stadium you sure as hell can't pitch here.

KronoRed
07-29-2006, 03:48 AM
If you can't pitch in Dodger stadium you sure as hell can't pitch here.
Agreed.

Say no to Lowe.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-29-2006, 04:43 AM
LOL Im telling u he's either going to Anaheim or the Dodgers

where did Zito go to college people?

What does that have to do with anything? Do you think he wants to live in the dorms?

cincyinco
07-29-2006, 05:32 AM
What does that have to do with anything? Do you think he wants to live in the dorms?

It has everything to do with Zito.. if you know anything about the guy, he's a "west coast" type of player. He'll stay in CA.. watch.

corkedbat
07-29-2006, 11:14 AM
That's always been the word on Zito - may not stay with the A's, but will stay one the left coast. Money can change sentiment though.

KalDanielsfan
07-29-2006, 03:29 PM
Lowe, with his good sinker could win 23 games. (My prediction) Does he get to bring that hot TV anchor with him?

my thoughts exactly..he is a headcase and he needs to get out of large market cities to avoid meltdowns and come to Cincy in a calm atmosphere and just pitch.

lol yeah Fox fired hit hot home wrecking GF :)

and the comment for the reds/flyers fan guy, is that it has everything to do with it. He loves SoCal. He wants to play music as well (as lame as that is, its true) and knows L.A. is where to be.

if he gets traded to NY, its for a rental and everyone knows it. He'll pitch for a few months but EVERYONE knows he'd rather be traded to LA/Anaheim, and sign with them after the season meaning Anaheim or the Dodgers will give Beane a helluva lot more talent knowing they can resign him after the season and that he's not just a rental


jesus its not rocket science

dsmith421
07-29-2006, 03:36 PM
I'm just wondering what kind of package it would take to get Lowe--something like LaRue and Claussen with a prospect on their end for eating his salary?

johngalt
07-29-2006, 04:59 PM
The thing you always have to remember with the A's, is that they typically want prospects/players that are major league ready or very close. That usually means AA or above, so even if we wanted to deal someone like Bruce (which I wouldn't want to do) that probably wouldn't be what they're looking for. It would almost have to involve Bailey.

GoGoWhiteSox
07-29-2006, 05:04 PM
Well I think Zito will definitely NOT be traded. Why on earth would Oakland trade one of their best pitchers while they're in contention? They would be waving the white flag. I see him finishing out the season in Oakland, then moving elsewhere during the offseason.

wally post
07-29-2006, 05:04 PM
I agree with TC about Lowe
As a person, I loathe the guy, but I think his sinker would be a wonderful addition here. Zito scares me with his agent and his fly balls...
there is always an adjustment period switching leagues as well. Lowe would do metter - he keeps the ball down.

KalDanielsfan
07-29-2006, 05:32 PM
Well I think Zito will definitely NOT be traded. Why on earth would Oakland trade one of their best pitchers while they're in contention? They would be waving the white flag. I see him finishing out the season in Oakland, then moving elsewhere during the offseason.

because Billy Beane is smart enough to know his A's arent winning a World Series this fall, and knows Zito is leaving and he wants to at least get something for later down the road versus getting nothing.

a guy on 710 AM here in Los Angeles made a great point about what teams do (at the cost of somewhat deceiving fans)

Almost all small market teams will trade for young talent, groom their talent in the minors, bring them up to the majors for 3-6 years while still under a rookie contract, turn them into superstars, then when trade them for young talent again (restarting this entire cycle) versus having to pay a huge contract or lose the star for nothing

This way, they have a constant cycle of good young talent coming out and performing for relatively cheap, while winning some ball games, the fans think they are actually competing for a W.S. title when really the owners/gms are content with just "being in it" while keeping payroll down

Jpup
07-29-2006, 05:37 PM
because Billy Beane is smart enough to know his A's arent winning a World Series this fall, and knows Zito is leaving and he wants to at least get something for later down the road versus getting nothing.

a guy on 710 AM here in Los Angeles made a great point about what teams do (at the cost of somewhat deceiving fans)

Almost all small market teams will trade for young talent, groom their talent in the minors, bring them up to the majors for 3-6 years while still under a rookie contract, turn them into superstars, then when trade them for young talent again (restarting this entire cycle) versus having to pay a huge contract or lose the star for nothing

This way, they have a constant cycle of good young talent coming out and performing for relatively cheap, while winning some ball games, the fans think they are actually competing for a W.S. title when really the owners/gms are content with just "being in it" while keeping payroll down

If you think that Beane doesn't want a ring, you are dead wrong. The rest of it is no secret.

KalDanielsfan
07-29-2006, 05:40 PM
If you think that Beane doesn't want a ring, you are dead wrong. The rest of it is no secret.

everybody wants a ring but do you think he thinks his team this year, which is almost dead last in slugging, hr's, OPS is good enough to win a World Series this year and risk losing Zito and getting nothing in return?

cmon man, he's a realist

KronoRed
07-29-2006, 05:46 PM
He might just take the draft pick.

Redsfan08
07-29-2006, 10:35 PM
Probably gonna take some heat but what if we trade Jay Bruce and another minor for Zito since we just drafted of Drew Stubbs this year.

corkedbat
07-29-2006, 11:13 PM
Probably gonna take some heat but what if we trade Jay Bruce and another minor for Zito since we just drafted of Drew Stubbs this year.

We;re awfully thin in the OF and I'm not convinced Stubbs is any kind of answer, but OFs can be found in FA easier than starters.

If you can sign Zito to an LTC and acquire him for a package of minor leaguers not named Bailey, I think you have to - reservations about the affect of the GAB on Zito aside.

Redsfan08
07-29-2006, 11:16 PM
I just want Zito so bad right now.

RedLegSuperStar
07-29-2006, 11:25 PM
Bruce, Wood, Pelland, and Coffey for Zito

corkedbat
07-29-2006, 11:36 PM
Just saw where Zito gaveup a grand slam early, then shut 'emdown throught 6.2 for a win today

KalDanielsfan
07-30-2006, 12:25 AM
why is everyone on zito's jock? left handed american league fly-ball pitcher in the GAB?..hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Eric Milton says hi

flyer85
07-30-2006, 12:30 AM
why is everyone on zito's jock? left handed american league fly-ball pitcher in the GAB?..hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Eric Milton says hiI much prefer Tejada, and this team could use him even more than Zito.

Jpup
07-30-2006, 12:41 AM
I just want Zito so bad right now.

:ughmamoru

KronoRed
07-30-2006, 03:15 AM
why is everyone on zito's jock? left handed american league fly-ball pitcher in the GAB?..hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Eric Milton says hi
Milton was never near as good as Zito.

KalDanielsfan
07-30-2006, 05:02 AM
Milton was never near as good as Zito.

agreed but he was pretty damn good his last two years in Minnesota

at ages 25 thru 27:

13-10 4.86 era
15-7 4.32
13-9 4.84

and that is being a fly ball picture in the metrodome so ERA is a bit inflated

Barry Zito at ages 25-27
14-12 3.30 era
11-11 4.48
14-13 3.86

not that near?

MaineRed
07-30-2006, 09:33 AM
Would someone with ERA's of 5.30, 5.84 and 5.86 between the age of 25 and 27 be near Milton? Its the same comparison, just going the other direction.

Zito's stats are much better than Milton's. A sub 4 ERA for two years when Milton is up around 5 on two of his.

corkedbat
07-30-2006, 11:44 AM
Another thing you would have to consider if you were going to work an LTC in the $11-13m range and trade for Zito (or similar frontline pitcher) is Aaron Harang. Whatever you give Zito would probably become Harang's number for arbitration or LTC negotiations.

Not saying that should stop you or that I think a deal will happen, but it would be a consideration if one does.