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View Full Version : THE Orlando "Tubby" Smith Thread



WMR
07-28-2006, 08:35 PM
Did anyone catch the Tubster on "Best Damn Sports Show Period"?

It was a really weird appearance. Tubby appeared VERY nervous.

Dibs asked him if he was going to get fired for not wearing a suit (Tubby was in a UK BBall t-shirt) and Tubby replied, "I hope so." But he said it very nervously, like it wasn't what he meant to say, but he could barely talk.

They asked him to name all 16 of his siblings and he got really flustered.

Odd appearance, Tubby is usually pretty calm and collected.

Maybe part of the problem is that they were having the show 'on the road' in LAS VEGAS. Seriously, PERFECT 10's surrounded the pool-side stage.

At the commercial break before Tubby appeared, they showed him helping two aforementioned PERFECT-BIKINICLAD-10's shoot free throws on one of those mini-baskets. The girl missed the FT, and I remarked to myself, "Well, that's definitely a Tubby Team." :laugh:

Tubby commented how he was there to watch "the top talent in the country." (Looking at the girls poolside, I gathered another inkling of what he meant) I wondered to myself why Tubby is so concerned with watching the nation's top talent if he can't recruit it to his school?:confused:

Tubby said, "This is a pretty good place to be." Indicating the hotties.

He made sure to mention that he needed to call his wife. lol.

Javy Pornstache
07-29-2006, 02:45 AM
Thanks for the report, WilyMo. I heard he was going to be on but didn't get a chance to catch it. I don't know if it was that out of the ordinary for him to appear nervous though -- he hems and haws through most of his coaches' shows too. Just doesn't seem too crazy to be in the spotlight, not that it is a bad thing. Certainly different than Rick Pitino in that regard since people always compare them. The only time I recall him being fairly smooth in a national setting was that PTI interview a few months back... you know, the one where he not so subtly hinted that anyone who thought he was a bad recruiter and a bad coach for UK was racist. :rolleyes:

WVRed
07-29-2006, 09:22 AM
I didn't see it, but this website said he did pretty good.

http://blog.kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=758

Jim Schue
07-30-2006, 01:17 AM
Tubby's always unsure of himself around reporters (unlike Pitino). Just one more reason many of the UK faithful don't like him.

Jpup
07-30-2006, 09:04 PM
Thanks for the report, WilyMo. I heard he was going to be on but didn't get a chance to catch it. I don't know if it was that out of the ordinary for him to appear nervous though -- he hems and haws through most of his coaches' shows too. Just doesn't seem too crazy to be in the spotlight, not that it is a bad thing. Certainly different than Rick Pitino in that regard since people always compare them. The only time I recall him being fairly smooth in a national setting was that PTI interview a few months back... you know, the one where he not so subtly hinted that anyone who thought he was a bad recruiter and a bad coach for UK was racist. :rolleyes:

I don't really care for Tubby because I just don't like UK basketball period. I will say that a lot of UK fans that I know, do not like Tubby because he is black. That is a fact. It's stupid, but true. 9 out of 10 people that live around here are UK fans and I would say that more people than not do not like him because he replaced Pitino and the rest is because he is black.

Most UK fans that I come in contact with would give their right arm for Billy Donovan.

People are ignorant, what can I say. They don't realize that this is the year 2006 and color should not matter, it never should have.

Blimpie
07-30-2006, 09:14 PM
I don't really care for Tubby because I just don't like UK basketball period. I will say that a lot of UK fans that I know, do not like Tubby because he is black. That is a fact. It's stupid, but true. 9 out of 10 people that live around here are UK fans and I would say that more people than not do not like him because he replaced Pitino and the rest is because he is black.

Most UK fans that I come in contact with would give their right arm for Billy Donovan.

People are ignorant, what can I say. They don't realize that this is the year 2006 and color should not matter, it never should have.If what you are saying is true, then you should be looking for a reason to leave the place you call home.

Jpup
07-30-2006, 09:32 PM
If what you are saying is true, then you should be looking for a reason to leave the place you call home.

If I had somewhere to go, I would be on the way.:)

Scrap Irony
07-30-2006, 11:48 PM
I'm a Kentucky fan. Have been since birth. (Something to do with Cawood on the radio and listening to my father and grandfather compare players, much like Cincinnati baseball.) I cried when the Cats went 3-33 in 1984. I punched a wall in frustration after Christian Laettner hit the prayer in 1992. I lived and died with Kentucky basketball.

A short decade after Tubby took over, I no longer care one way or another. I might watch the game if I have nothing else to do. I might not. My father is even worse, refusing to watch them.

He prefers to walk the ball up the court, set up an offense, and feed the big guy under the basket. He hates to give up layups. He substitutes wholesale at the four minute mark of the first half, regardless of score. He's imminently happy when the score of the game is in the 60's.

Last season, he had perhaps the most exciting playmaker in the NCAA. Rajon Rondo has moves few people in this world possess. What did Tubby do with him? Shackled him. Made him run an ill-fitting offense. Made him a nonfactor.

In fact, the personnel Tubby coached last season consisted of two excellent wing shooters, a guy that can drive to the hole on anyone, a solid big guy, and four reserves. All could fly.

Tubby refused to acknowledge his team's ability level and comfort zone, and a team that could have challenged for a national championship struggled to win 20 games.

Recruits noticed the slow down. They looked elsewhere. (Naturally enough.) When asked about it, Tubby bristled. Kids noticed his temper, The Stare, The Stomp, and looked elsewhere again. (Naturally enough.) When asked about his recruiting struggles, Tubby again bristles and complains about racism?

I don't care if he's white, black, green, or blue. All I care about is entertainment and winning. (In that order, I think.)

He doesn't entertain me at all. (I'm not the only one-- take a quick glance at UK home ballgames. Those seats are not filled.) He doesn't win.

Kentucky has become a secondary school, at this point, behind Duke, North Carolina, UConn, and others. It's on par, at this point, with Oklahoma, Texas Tech, and that ilk.

That, to me, is just not acceptable.

Yet, I am sure, I will be labelled a racist by some.

Shrug.

So be it.

On a secondary note, are Kentucky fans the most ignorant in all of sports?

Javy Pornstache
07-31-2006, 01:41 AM
I'm a Kentucky fan. Have been since birth. (Something to do with Cawood on the radio and listening to my father and grandfather compare players, much like Cincinnati baseball.) I cried when the Cats went 3-33 in 1984. I punched a wall in frustration after Christian Laettner hit the prayer in 1992. I lived and died with Kentucky basketball.

A short decade after Tubby took over, I no longer care one way or another. I might watch the game if I have nothing else to do. I might not. My father is even worse, refusing to watch them.

He prefers to walk the ball up the court, set up an offense, and feed the big guy under the basket. He hates to give up layups. He substitutes wholesale at the four minute mark of the first half, regardless of score. He's imminently happy when the score of the game is in the 60's.

Last season, he had perhaps the most exciting playmaker in the NCAA. Rajon Rondo has moves few people in this world possess. What did Tubby do with him? Shackled him. Made him run an ill-fitting offense. Made him a nonfactor.

In fact, the personnel Tubby coached last season consisted of two excellent wing shooters, a guy that can drive to the hole on anyone, a solid big guy, and four reserves. All could fly.

Tubby refused to acknowledge his team's ability level and comfort zone, and a team that could have challenged for a national championship struggled to win 20 games.

Recruits noticed the slow down. They looked elsewhere. (Naturally enough.) When asked about it, Tubby bristled. Kids noticed his temper, The Stare, The Stomp, and looked elsewhere again. (Naturally enough.) When asked about his recruiting struggles, Tubby again bristles and complains about racism?

I don't care if he's white, black, green, or blue. All I care about is entertainment and winning. (In that order, I think.)

He doesn't entertain me at all. (I'm not the only one-- take a quick glance at UK home ballgames. Those seats are not filled.) He doesn't win.

Kentucky has become a secondary school, at this point, behind Duke, North Carolina, UConn, and others. It's on par, at this point, with Oklahoma, Texas Tech, and that ilk.

That, to me, is just not acceptable.

Yet, I am sure, I will be labelled a racist by some.

Shrug.

So be it.

On a secondary note, are Kentucky fans the most ignorant in all of sports?

Scrap, you said a mouthful there, brother. So many people agree with you, it's not just you and your father. I know so many that are the same way, as passionate as they are over UK basketball, it is past the point of caring now. That's not to say they cheer for them to -lose-, but they just are indifferent now. There's no point in following them. More often than not, seasons are like the years losing in the round of 32 than the better seasons we've had.

They are making it a habit of being put out of the tournament by teams seeded lower than them. It happens frustratingly often. In this decade, Kentucky has not defeated any team seeded better than 4 in any NCAA tournament game. Anyone can look it up. The amount of ten-loss seasons within an "era" is unprecendented for UK hoops.

He apparently doesn't feel the need to ever recruit a power forward. Tubby is losing recruits to schools that at least USED to be way beneath UK in stature. On average, about two players a year try to bolt before their eligibility is up, and most of them aren't the type that do it because they're NBA-ready. I think he's recruited something like 37 players total in his tenure at Kentucky, and 21 of them (or somewhere in that neighborhood) have either left or at least attempted to (as in the cases of Joe Crawford and Randolph Morris). Every single offseason he promises to start an up-tempo style, not only to please the fans, but for the reason that is more important, to bring back the style that made UK hoops so palatable to top recruits that no longer even consider considering Kentucky.

Some of the firsts for Smith include: first coach in UK history to have back-to-back ten loss seasons (and subsequently the first to have back-to-back-to-back); the UK record for most consecutive seasons without reaching the Final Four; first coach to not have a player named first-team All American or Academic All-American (as of yet, at least); first time losing four straight to an SEC opponent in over 25 years (Florida); this past season is the first time in nearly 20 years they've lost four home SEC games....

And that's just the stuff off the top of my head, there is a whole list of Tubby Smith firsts. And Jpup, I understand what you're saying about some of what the folks in your area are saying; I have family in southern Kentucky and am quite familiar with the area. That's not to say though that everywhere else that follows UK basketball passionately has those beliefs. All that said, the time for Tubby Smith to leave has come. Oh, and I too would give my right arm for Billy Donovan to take over the program.

And it's not because he's white.

WMR
07-31-2006, 03:27 AM
I don't really care for Tubby because I just don't like UK basketball period. I will say that a lot of UK fans that I know, do not like Tubby because he is black. That is a fact. It's stupid, but true. 9 out of 10 people that live around here are UK fans and I would say that more people than not do not like him because he replaced Pitino and the rest is because he is black.

Most UK fans that I come in contact with would give their right arm for Billy Donovan.

People are ignorant, what can I say. They don't realize that this is the year 2006 and color should not matter, it never should have.

That's the biggest load of crap I've read in quite some time. You've seriously got "LOTS" of people that you know who tell you that they don't like Tubby b/c he is black? I'm sorry, I don't believe that. I think you are projecting your beliefs of UK fans onto people who publicly profess to dislike Tubby for reasons that you deem to lack credibility.

Try 9 years without a Final Four if you want to know why many UK fans are ready for a different coach.

Are you even FROM Kentucky? I'm really curious, because most people I know who are from Kentucky that hate UK bball were the kids that wanted to root for some other team b/c doing the anti-UK thing was somehow supposed to be cool.

No true Kentuckian--ESPECIALLY Southern Kentuckian--hates UK basketball (and YES, I do include Louisville fans in that proclamation).

WMR
07-31-2006, 03:31 AM
Nice posts Javy and Scrap, and right on, agreed 100%. Tubby has lowered the once five-star status of UK and recruiting. We are now a four-star school which really sucks and is unacceptable.

Tubby ball is lame. The best coaches either recruit players to play their system or modify their schemes to fit the personnel at their disposal.

Tubby took a Ferrari--Rondo--and drove it like a Peugeot.

WMR
07-31-2006, 03:45 AM
If I had somewhere to go, I would be on the way.:)

The Volunteer state is taking applications. Wait, you'd probably be accosted by racists there as well.

Blimpie
07-31-2006, 08:57 AM
I'm a Kentucky fan. Have been since birth. (Something to do with Cawood on the radio and listening to my father and grandfather compare players, much like Cincinnati baseball.) I cried when the Cats went 3-33 in 1984. I punched a wall in frustration after Christian Laettner hit the prayer in 1992. I lived and died with Kentucky basketball.Not for nothing, but that team actually finished the season 18-13....

dabvu2498
07-31-2006, 09:26 AM
Not for nothing, but that team actually finished the season 18-13....
He means they went 3-33 in the 2nd half of the Final 4 game vs. Georgetown.

As far as "Big Blue" fans being racist, I have to agree with jpup. It's not all, but it's enough to be disturbing.

I also have to agree with WilyMo that syle of play is an issue.

HBP
07-31-2006, 10:40 AM
I've been a UK fan my whole life and have never met a person that didn't like Tubby because of his race. In the past, if a fan didn't like him it was because he wasn't Rick Pitino. Recently, his results have added more naysayers. People got spoiled by the 96-98 years and UK will likely never have a run like that again no matter who the coach is. Trust me, if Tubby can make a FF soon and have an exciting team to watch, there's no other fan base that can rival UK's (BTW still led the nation in attendance last year).

Also, if some UK fans are racist, why would they only have a problem with Tubby being that the team is usually at least 75% African-American?

Blimpie
07-31-2006, 12:31 PM
He means they went 3-33 in the 2nd half of the Final 4 game vs. Georgetown.Ah...I have no idea what you are referring to. That game did not exist in my mind. Never happened. :cool:

dabvu2498
07-31-2006, 01:20 PM
Ah...I have no idea what you are referring to. That game did not exist in my mind. Never happened. :cool:
I feel your pain. I love watching the highlight shows of the '92 Duke game and turning it off the second Woods' shot goes in. I've almost convinved myself it really ended that way.

Jpup
08-01-2006, 07:07 AM
That's the biggest load of crap I've read in quite some time. You've seriously got "LOTS" of people that you know who tell you that they don't like Tubby b/c he is black? I'm sorry, I don't believe that. I think you are projecting your beliefs of UK fans onto people who publicly profess to dislike Tubby for reasons that you deem to lack credibility.

Try 9 years without a Final Four if you want to know why many UK fans are ready for a different coach.

Are you even FROM Kentucky? I'm really curious, because most people I know who are from Kentucky that hate UK bball were the kids that wanted to root for some other team b/c doing the anti-UK thing was somehow supposed to be cool.

No true Kentuckian--ESPECIALLY Southern Kentuckian--hates UK basketball (and YES, I do include Louisville fans in that proclamation).


I don't know what to say. I don't really care if you believe me. It's the absolute truth. Did I say I hate UK basketball? I said that I don't like UK basetball. Honestly I don't really like baseketball at all anymore. If you will read my post again, I said that most people don't like Tubby because he replaced Pitino and the rest don't like him because he is black. If you don't believe that, then I really don't care. Why would I lie about it? I have heard many, many people say that they don't like Tubby Smith and it usually starts with those two reasons.

To refresh your memory, here is what I said:


9 out of 10 people that live around here are UK fans and I would say that more people than not do not like him because he replaced Pitino and the rest is because he is black.


I've lived here my entire life and I used to love UK and all that when I was a kid. I then grew up and decided that I didn't like UK or, pretty much, basketball in general. I'll watch a game here and there and check in on the NBA sometimes, but I really don't care much about the sport. I really loved watching the Bulls when I was coming up, but then Jordan retired and it just didn't feel the same.

I love baseball and the Reds. I love football and the Titans. How you would question where I live because I don't like a basketball team is beyond me.

If you have a personal problem with me, please PM me and we can discuss it. Questioning who I am and where I am from is crossing the line IMO.

I'm done.

WVRed
08-01-2006, 10:37 AM
That's the biggest load of crap I've read in quite some time. You've seriously got "LOTS" of people that you know who tell you that they don't like Tubby b/c he is black? I'm sorry, I don't believe that. I think you are projecting your beliefs of UK fans onto people who publicly profess to dislike Tubby for reasons that you deem to lack credibility.

Try 9 years without a Final Four if you want to know why many UK fans are ready for a different coach.

Are you even FROM Kentucky? I'm really curious, because most people I know who are from Kentucky that hate UK bball were the kids that wanted to root for some other team b/c doing the anti-UK thing was somehow supposed to be cool.

No true Kentuckian--ESPECIALLY Southern Kentuckian--hates UK basketball (and YES, I do include Louisville fans in that proclamation).

Hate to break it to you, but I am originally from the country in Northeastern Kentucky and people there still follow the Baron like it is the Gospel.

JPup's percentage's are way off(I would say 1 in 10 do not like Tubby because of race), but get away from Lexington and into the more rural area's, and you would be surprised.

I wasn't old enough to remember Kentucky basketball during the Eddie Sutton era and when they were on probation, but this is the worst that I have ever seen the program. The worst part is, the administration wants to sweep it under the rug and pretend like nothing is wrong. Javy did a marvelous job of detailing why Tubby Smith has failed at UK, but try saying that on a UK message board, and you will be accosted as a racist or trying to hinder UK from getting a top notch recruit(since recruits do read message boards).

What I believe will ultimately be the dagger in the heart of this program(if it hasn't already) is recruiting. The simple fact of the matter is, every once in a while, it doesn't hurt to produce players at the high school level. Kentucky has not had that much success. In fact, since 2002, the best recruits to come out ranked nationally(4 stars out of 5) have been Brandon Stockton and Jared Carter, both of whom have either rode or will likely ride the bench at Kentucky for the rest of their careers. 2008 could be interesting, with Scotty Hopson(UHA) and Darius Miller(Mason County) both being four star recruits.

Am I saying we need to recruit all in-state? Absolutely not, but we need to start somewhere, plus we don't have the talent here in Kentucky. Tubby had one of the brightest recruits in state history playing in Ashland in the 7th grade. In fact, many have compared this kid to LeBron James and Oscar Robertson, among others. Tubby and Reggie Hansen can claim to at least say that they have seen him watch a game, but they were really checking out Ravi Moss from University Heights. Now don't get me wrong, Ravi was a great player at UK, but he is nowhere on the talent level as OJ Mayo. At least Bob Huggins had the right idea, even though he failed.

We had a player(possibly two in Bill Walker) playing in our own back yard, and we hardly made a run at him. Sad thing is, Indiana has had a sickening level of talent come out of their state, and they let the Dukes, North Carolina's, and Ohio St's come and take them away. You want to say that Mike Davis was run out of IU because of his ethnicity? Try his inability to field a team from within. I ultimately believe that Tubby Smith will go down the same road as Mike Davis, and it will happen this season.

Kentucky basketball reminds me right now of the preacher leaving the church. 25% of the people leave with the preacher and another 25% leave because they don't like the new preacher. If Tubby leaves, the church could very well split.

Sorry for the rambling, but i've had this on me for a while.:)

Javy Pornstache
08-01-2006, 02:37 PM
No need to apologize, great post, WVRed. I'm right with you on everything. As passionate as the state is for basketball, it has certainly had a downward trend in terms of producing top notch prospects. But the state hasn't been COMPLETELY devoid, and Tubby has been whiffing for a while on the ones that have come out. Even beyond Mayo and Walker starting off in Ashland, you've had several Mr. Basketballs consecutively taking offers from other schools, most notably recently Chris Lofton to Tennessee (a shooting guard that can actually SHOOT?! How about that, a huge UK need over the years), plus to a lesser extent Ross Neltner to LSU and the kid that committed to Cincinnati (sorry, name escapes me at the moment).

Has anyone noticed these lesser recruits that Tubby has habitually been recruiting late in the game, that are being pimped incessantly by the blue-colored glasses-wearing fans, aren't even that good? This kid Nash that came up recently falls in that category..... and the thing is even these kids aren't committing to Kentucky. UK's competition for some of these guys are schools like Baylor, Clemson, and schools not even in major conferences like at least they are, and UK still isn't landing them. And still there are some people delusional to think nothing is wrong with the recruiting. And that MESSAGE BOARDS are messing up our recruiting.... but no one else's.

I agree, WVRed, I think this year is it. I don't mean to be one to spread gossip, but word I've heard through the grapevine from some influential people in Lexington is the majority of the money people wanted him gone this offseason but it didn't come to pass because President Todd believed in giving him one more shot to right the ship, or at least leave on better terms than a 13-loss season. Regardless of the outcome of this next season, unless a Final Four berth perhaps, this could very well be the end of the line for Tubby.

WMR
08-05-2006, 05:50 AM
I don't know what to say. I don't really care if you believe me. It's the absolute truth. Did I say I hate UK basketball? I said that I don't like UK basetball. Honestly I don't really like baseketball at all anymore. If you will read my post again, I said that most people don't like Tubby because he replaced Pitino and the rest don't like him because he is black. If you don't believe that, then I really don't care. Why would I lie about it? I have heard many, many people say that they don't like Tubby Smith and it usually starts with those two reasons.








To refresh your memory, here is what I said:



I've lived here my entire life and I used to love UK and all that when I was a kid. I then grew up and decided that I didn't like UK or, pretty much, basketball in general. I'll watch a game here and there and check in on the NBA sometimes, but I really don't care much about the sport. I really loved watching the Bulls when I was coming up, but then Jordan retired and it just didn't feel the same.

I love baseball and the Reds. I love football and the Titans. How you would question where I live because I don't like a basketball team is beyond me.

If you have a personal problem with me, please PM me and we can discuss it. Questioning who I am and where I am from is crossing the line IMO.

I'm done.

Hmmm... I could care less about the neg, but if you expect me to to allow someone to come into an innocent thread and impugn the University of Kentucky in any way, shape or form without some solid, backed up, form of substantiation, you are kidding yourself; in fact, you are seriously deluding yourself.

Please, please, please, please, PLEASE, calm down.

I'm sorry if you don't like to admit it, but anyone who has grown up within the state of KY who is not a rabid UK BBall fan is considered suspect within the general University of Kentucky fan base.

WVRed
08-05-2006, 05:58 PM
Hmmm... I could care less about the neg, but if you expect me to to allow someone to come into an innocent thread and impugn the University of Kentucky in any way, shape or form without some solid, backed up, form of substantiation, you are kidding yourself; in fact, you are seriously deluding yourself.

Please, please, please, please, PLEASE, calm down.

I'm sorry if you don't like to admit it, but anyone who has grown up within the state of KY who is not a rabid UK BBall fan is considered suspect within the general University of Kentucky fan base.

There are Louisville fans you know.;)

WMR
08-05-2006, 06:04 PM
LOL WVRed, you didn't know? Louisville fans aren't actually Kentuckians. ;)

Jim Schue
08-06-2006, 03:36 AM
LOL WVRed, you didn't know? Louisville fans aren't actually Kentuckians. ;)

I beg to differ. :angry:

I've tried to hold my tongue in this thread, but I can no more.

I've lived my entire life in this state, and I'm about as Kentuckian as it gets, having grown up in a small river town of about 1,400 people. I am a L'ville fan because my father is probably just like you with UK. I didn't always dislike UK, but the provincial and dismissive attitudes displayed by some UK fans, as well as the outcry I heard back in the Sutton era when he dared play five black players on the floor at the same time, turned me against UK forever. I have heard many, many racist things out of the mouths of UK fans over the years amazing what white folks will say when there are no black folks around. Referring to UofL as "The Blackbirds" comes readily to mind as a common example.

Most UK fans I have no problems with; most of my best friends are UK fans. It's the vocal minority that has turned me off. And spare me the "other schools have some racists in their fan base" line I hear all the time. Sure, those schools do have bad fans that make the rest of their fan base look bad. But I don't live in that state.

WMR
08-06-2006, 03:37 AM
Yep, you're a Louisville fan alright.

WMR
08-06-2006, 03:41 AM
"the outcry you heard BACK IN THE SUTTON ERA"

Hmm... when exactly WAS the "SUTTON ERA" again?

How racist was the majority of the south during those years?

PLEASE. Crap.

WMR
08-06-2006, 03:43 AM
You tell me a UK fan who has called Louisville "the blackbirds" in the last 15 years.

I know A LOT of UK fans. The type of fans that you are describing are in the smallest of the small minority from my experiences in MY lifetime. (in other words, RECENT UK HISTORY) AND I KNOW UK FANS WHO ARE NOT AFRAID TO SAY HOW THEY TRULY FEEL

WVRed
08-06-2006, 09:27 AM
You tell me a UK fan who has called Louisville "the blackbirds" in the last 15 years.

I know A LOT of UK fans. The type of fans that you are describing are in the smallest of the small minority from my experiences in MY lifetime. (in other words, RECENT UK HISTORY) AND I KNOW UK FANS WHO ARE NOT AFRAID TO SAY HOW THEY TRULY FEEL

Out of curiosity, are you from Kentucky? Its one thing to know a LOT of UK fans, but unless you know fans inside the state, its an entirely different situation.

Jim Schue
08-06-2006, 11:32 AM
Yep, you're a Louisville fan alright.

Thanks for making my point for me.


"the outcry you heard BACK IN THE SUTTON ERA"

Hmm... when exactly WAS the "SUTTON ERA" again?

How racist was the majority of the south during those years?

PLEASE. Crap.

If you would've paid attention to my statement, you would've noticed that I said that outcry heard frequently on Cawood's call-in show is what turned me away from UK. But if you want more recent examples, I could probably take you to my hometown and introduce you to people who switched over to being UofL fans because they couldn't fathom the idea of a black man coaching at UK.


You tell me a UK fan who has called Louisville "the blackbirds" in the last 15 years.

I know A LOT of UK fans. The type of fans that you are describing are in the smallest of the small minority from my experiences in MY lifetime. (in other words, RECENT UK HISTORY) AND I KNOW UK FANS WHO ARE NOT AFRAID TO SAY HOW THEY TRULY FEEL

I do too, and I know more than a few who can't stand the idea of Tubby coaching UK because he's black, and will say so loudly. My experiences of living in many small towns throughout this wonderful state tells me that the number of fans I am describing is not nearly as small as you lead on.

Where are you from?

Blimpie
08-06-2006, 01:27 PM
I do too, and I know more than a few who can't stand the idea of Tubby coaching UK because he's black, and will say so loudly. My experiences of living in many small towns throughout this wonderful state tells me that the number of fans I am describing is not nearly as small as you lead on. In my work, I have visited every corner of this Commonwealth many times over. I have met and spoken with people from towns of all sizes. So, please don't attempt to imply that racists living in Kentucky are that way simply because of their town sizes.

Kentucky happens to be comprised of hundreds of rural counties and about 5-8 counties that fit the category of urban. But that does not explain away the behavior and philosophies of the people you are describing.

The people to whom you are referring are not they way they are because they just so happen to live in small towns. They are that way because they are small minded bigots who were most likely raised by bigots who held the same ridiculous beliefs.

Unfortunately, these beliefs exist all over the country--regardless of the demographic makeup of the community.

"It takes a village.......to raise a village idiot."

Jim Schue
08-06-2006, 02:05 PM
In my work, I have visited every corner of this Commonwealth many times over. I have met and spoken with people from towns of all sizes. So, please don't attempt to imply that racists living in Kentucky are that way simply because of their town sizes.

Kentucky happens to be comprised of hundreds of rural counties and about 5-8 counties that fit the category of urban. But that does not explain away the behavior and philosophies of the people you are describing.

The people to whom you are referring are not they way they are because they just so happen to live in small towns. They are that way because they are small minded bigots who were most likely raised by bigots who held the same ridiculous beliefs.

Unfortunately, these beliefs exist all over the country--regardless of the demographic makeup of the community.

"It takes a village.......to raise a village idiot."

By no means would I ever suggest that racism is limited to small towns after looking at my earlier post, it does seem as though I wasn't clear on that point. I have seen racism rear its ugly head in Covington, Newport, Louisville, Lexington, Bowling Green all of which could fairly be considered urban as well as in small towns. My intent was to point out to WilyMo that bigotry is not this quirky thing of long ago that doesn't exist anymore, as he seems to be suggesting. Every fan base has a smattering of bigoted morons in their midst UofL included. I'm just not willing to take the "ignore them and maybe they'll go away" stance the way so many others do when it comes to exposing the idiots in their village.

WVRed
08-06-2006, 02:14 PM
The people to whom you are referring are not they way they are because they just so happen to live in small towns. They are that way because they are small minded bigots who were most likely raised by bigots who held the same ridiculous beliefs.

Bingo.

Taking a break from which part of the commonwealth is racist, here is a petition from firetubbysmith.com with close to 3,000 signatures.

http://www.petitiononline.com/firetubb/petition.html

WMR
08-06-2006, 03:46 PM
I'm from KY (as if!! ;) )

Born and bred in good ole Georgetown, KY.

WMR
08-06-2006, 03:49 PM
Jim, I'm not trying to suggest that there aren't still racists within the UK fanbase.

Racism exists everywhere, no question. My time living in Cleveland has shown me that and is one of the reasons I've got a real problem with people implying that the UK fanbase somehow has more racists than any other fan base.

That is my point of contention.

Good post, Blimpie.

WMR
08-06-2006, 03:50 PM
Out of curiosity, are you from Kentucky? Its one thing to know a LOT of UK fans, but unless you know fans inside the state, its an entirely different situation.

That's the thing, I have family in Owenton, Pikeville, Ashland, Meade Co., and everywhere in-between.

Some of the smallest of the small.

Blimpie
08-06-2006, 05:58 PM
Jim, I'm not trying to suggest that there aren't still racists within the UK fanbase.

Racism exists everywhere, no question. My time living in Cleveland has shown me that and is one of the reasons I've got a real problem with people implying that the UK fanbase somehow has more racists than any other fan base.

That is my point of contention.

Good post, Blimpie.Yep. For starters, not many other universities are having major motion pictures made in an attempt to perpetuate fables.

Everybody in the know concedes that "Glory Road" was more fiction than fact. However, all it served to do was usher in those tired old fallacies towards yet another generation of fans.

Adolph Rupp only started white guys against Texas Western??? Oh my!

Folks, those were the times for many teams. Should Duke have made it past the semi-finals that year, it would have been THEIR all white team that faced Texas Western.

I'll bet you will never see ESPN promoting that storyline ad nauseum because it would not allow them to reconcile their hype of that program over the last two decades.

WMR
08-06-2006, 06:06 PM
Yeah, I mean, GOSH, ESPN couldn't broadcast a Duke game on EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEIR FREAKING CHANNELS AT ONCE (A 'cameron crazies cam'?? please excuse me for a sec while I go puke) if they had that type of 'HISTORY' on their school's resume.

I'd love to know how many recruits the Duke/ESPN love affair has landed the Blue Devils over the past 10 years.

Of course, it's a moot point, but I really do think UK could have contended for ESPN's undying affection had Rick stayed at Kentucky.

WVRed
08-07-2006, 05:08 PM
I have tried to give Tubby the benefit of the doubt and hope that he can turn things around, but now its possible that it may never happen.

Dante Jackson, who we were in the lead for earlier in the year, is likely to announce his commitment to Xavier or Dayton. Patrick Patterson, one of the top power forward recruits who is rising up the boards fairly quickly and had been basically a hometown lock(from Huntington), is now expected to commit to Florida given the myspace incident.

And its not just these. The class of 2007 was supposed to be one of the deepest classes in recent memory, and as of right now, we have absolutely nothing to show for it. Right now, we are following the same path as Indiana, and ironically enough, Tubby Smith is following the same path as Mike Davis.

I've tried to look at this and say Tubby will turn it around, but no more. If there is no improvement at the end of this season, Tubby Smith needs to resign for the good of the program.

WMR
08-07-2006, 10:37 PM
Wow, WVRed... please, sometimes ignorance is bliss. :(

Thanks for the reporting... I guess.

WVRed
08-08-2006, 11:00 AM
Wow, WVRed... please, sometimes ignorance is bliss. :(

Thanks for the reporting... I guess.

I could be wrong, and I hope I am. That is what I have been reading though. His parents reportedly weren't too happy with the whole thing and with the way UK fans perceive Tubby. I wouldn't be surprised if he did leave.

Its a matter of perception really. Lets figure Noah, Horford, and Brewer are gone, and Patterson can step into a run and gun offense at Florida compared to playing Tubby ball and maybe finishing with 15-16 PPG. What would you choose?

Javy Pornstache
08-09-2006, 02:17 AM
UK already lost a recruit to Florida a few weeks ago, and his reason, and I paraphrase, was "I like that I can wear flip flops and sandals year-round at Florida." A guy UK was surely overhyping to make it look like Tubby was getting a top recruit, and he STILL doesn't pick UK, because sandals now mean more than UK's tradition, knowing he won't come close to contributing significantly for Florida this year and had a chance as PF for UK. And, yeah, WVRed, you're right, Florida's offense has a lot to do with it, compared with what's been described as UK's "plowhorse offense".

Scrap Irony
08-10-2006, 01:11 AM
It is a plowhorse offense, straight from the late 70's or early 80's. It's boring.

As to the fan issue, Kentucky fans talk. A lot. Many of these fans are ignorant.

However, after meeting some Nebraska football fans, I have come to the conclusion that Kentucky does indeed receive a bum rap for it's alleged "racism". (Ditto for Alabama, Georgia, and, suprisingly, IU fans). It's awfully easy to relegate someone's opinion to the scrap heap by stereotyping. ESPN is guilty of this in virtually all its reporting. Same for other sports news, including journalism. It's easy and the "common" fan agrees with you. Or, even better, disagrees with you and comments on it. UK fans do that. A lot. Hence, the vicious circle.

WVRed
08-12-2006, 10:27 PM
Found this online, not Tubby related, but a good joke nonetheless.


>> >> >> > An Indiana Hoosiers fan, a Duke Blue Devils fan and a
>> >> >> > Kentucky Wildcats fan were all in Saudi Arabia,
>> >> >> > sharing a smuggled bottle of Maker's Mark. All of a
>> >> >> > sudden, Saudi police rushed in and arrested them. The
>> >> >> > mere possession of alcohol is a severe offense in
>> >> >> > Saudi Arabia, so for the terrible crime of actually
>> >> >> > consuming the booze, they were sentenced to death!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > However, after many months and with the help of very
>> >> >> > good lawyers, they were able to successfully appeal
>> >> >> > their sentence down to life imprisonment. By a stroke
>> >> >> > of luck, it was a Saudi national holiday the day their
>> >> >> > trial finished, and the extremely benevolent Sheik
>> >> >> > decided they could be released after receiving just 20
>> >> >> > lashes each of the whip.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > As they were preparing for their punishment, the Sheik
>> >> >> > suddenly said: "It's my first wife's birthday today,
>> >> >> > and she has asked me to allow each of you one wish
>> >> >> > before your whipping."
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The Hoosier fan was first in line, so he thought about
>> >> >> > this for a while and then said, "Please tie a pillow
>> >> >> > to my back." This was done, but the pillow only lasted
>> >> >> > 10 lashes before the whip went through.
>> >> >> > The Hoosier fan had to be carried away bleeding and
>> >> >> > crying with pain when the punishment was done.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The Blue Devils fan was next up, and after watching
>> >> >> > the scene, said, "All right! Please fix two pillows on
>> >> >> > my back." But even two pillows could only take 15
>> >> >> > lashes before the whip went through again, sending
>> >> >> > the Duke fan out crying like a little girl.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The Wildcat fan was the last one up, but before he
>> >> >> > could say anything, the Sheik turned to him and said,
>> >> >> > "You support the greatest team in the world, your
>> >> >> > alumni are some of the best and most loyal
>> >> >> > basketball fans in the world. For this, you may have
>> >> >> > two wishes!"
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "Thanks, your most Royal highness", the Wildcat fan
>> >> >> > replied. "In recognition of your kindness, my first
>> >> >> > wish is that you give me not 20, but 100 lashes."
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "Not only are you an honorable, handsome, and powerful
>> >> >> > man, you are also very brave," the Sheik said with an
>> >> >> > admiring look on his face. "If 100 lashes is what you
>> >> >> > desire, then so be it.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > And your second wish? What is it to be?" the Sheik
>> >> >> > asked.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "Tie the Duke fan to my back."
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Go Big Blue!!!!

Jim Schue
08-15-2006, 03:42 PM
Found this online, not Tubby related, but a good joke nonetheless.

Ah yes, anything to further the misguided assumption that UK and Duke are rivals. Or better yet, the rivalry only UK fans know about.

WVRed
08-15-2006, 07:11 PM
Ah yes, anything to further the misguided assumption that UK and Duke are rivals. Or better yet, the rivalry only UK fans know about.

Ok, we all know about the shot heard round the world.

1998-Coach K calls his final timeout with five minutes left to go in the game. Kentucky comes from 17 points down with 12 minutes to go to win 86-84.

Duke also lost to Kentucky in 1978 for the National Championship.

Also, in 2001, Duke beat Kentucky 95-92 in an overtime thriller. Jason Williams scored 38 points and also lost to Duke again in the Jimmy V Classic in 1998 after beating them in the national championship nine months prior.

Maybe this isnt a rivalry on the scale as Duke-UNC like ESPN would lead you to believe, but when these two get together, there is some serious venom from both teams.

Reds4Life
08-15-2006, 07:19 PM
I have tried to give Tubby the benefit of the doubt and hope that he can turn things around, but now its possible that it may never happen.

Dante Jackson, who we were in the lead for earlier in the year, is likely to announce his commitment to Xavier or Dayton. Patrick Patterson, one of the top power forward recruits who is rising up the boards fairly quickly and had been basically a hometown lock(from Huntington), is now expected to commit to Florida given the myspace incident.

And its not just these. The class of 2007 was supposed to be one of the deepest classes in recent memory, and as of right now, we have absolutely nothing to show for it. Right now, we are following the same path as Indiana, and ironically enough, Tubby Smith is following the same path as Mike Davis.

I've tried to look at this and say Tubby will turn it around, but no more. If there is no improvement at the end of this season, Tubby Smith needs to resign for the good of the program.

Dante Jackson isn't as good as you think he is, I've seen him play multiple times at AAU events, he won't even be a starting guard at Xavier for 2 years at least. Jackson wanted to stay in Ohio as well.

Blimpie
08-15-2006, 08:00 PM
Ok, we all know about the shot heard round the world.

1998-Coach K calls his final timeout with five minutes left to go in the game. Kentucky comes from 17 points down with 12 minutes to go to win 86-84.

Duke also lost to Kentucky in 1978 for the National Championship.

Also, in 2001, Duke beat Kentucky 95-92 in an overtime thriller. Jason Williams scored 38 points and also lost to Duke again in the Jimmy V Classic in 1998 after beating them in the national championship nine months prior.

Maybe this isnt a rivalry on the scale as Duke-UNC like ESPN would lead you to believe, but when these two get together, there is some serious venom from both teams.You beat me to it, WVRed....

ESPN would have you believe that UNC is the only team that is capable of calling itself a 'rival' to Duke. Whenever UK and Duke have played over the years--the stakes have always seemed to be larger than normal.

WVRed
08-15-2006, 08:54 PM
You beat me to it, WVRed....

ESPN would have you believe that UNC is the only team that is capable of calling itself a 'rival' to Duke. Whenever UK and Duke have played over the years--the stakes have always seemed to be larger than normal.

Exactly.

Just because two teams don't play every year doesn't mean its not a rivalry.

lo ryder
08-15-2006, 10:08 PM
I have always liked UK B ball but there will soon be a new powerhouse, The Ohio State University. Great coach, great recruits and the best alumni and followers in the nation. :beerme:

WVRed
08-16-2006, 07:17 AM
I have always liked UK B ball but there will soon be a new powerhouse, The Ohio State University. Great coach, great recruits and the best alumni and followers in the nation. :beerme:

Until Oden goes pro(which will be one or two years after he arrives).

Blimpie
08-16-2006, 01:42 PM
Is anybody else but me really, really, really tired of the recent emphasis of "The" prior to naming one's favorite team?

:rant:

It has gotten so bad that I have to mute the player introductions when they occur on Monday Night Football.

dabvu2498
08-16-2006, 02:23 PM
Is anybody else but me really, really, really tired of the recent emphasis of "The" prior to naming one's favorite team?

Ohio State people. :rolleyes: ;)

Javy Pornstache
08-16-2006, 02:42 PM
You beat me to it, WVRed....

ESPN would have you believe that UNC is the only team that is capable of calling itself a 'rival' to Duke. Whenever UK and Duke have played over the years--the stakes have always seemed to be larger than normal.

On the subject of UK-Duke, there was supposedly an offer for a mini-series between the two I believe this past offseason (or it might have been perhaps the offseason between the 05-06 seasons), and it was nixed by Duke because --GET THIS-- Kentucky had the AUDACITY to expect one of the games to be at Rupp Arena!! Imagine that! But, yeah, it was nixed because Mike Krzyzewski refused to go to Rupp Arena. He wanted one game at the Cameron Indoor Bingo Hall, and one game on a neutral court. Kentucky politely declined this setup. Lute Olsen refused to acquiese to a two-game series with Duke also for the same reason, the Dookies didn't want to go to Arizona for a game.

cumberlandreds
08-16-2006, 03:00 PM
On the subject of UK-Duke, there was supposedly an offer for a mini-series between the two I believe this past offseason (or it might have been perhaps the offseason between the 05-06 seasons), and it was nixed by Duke because --GET THIS-- Kentucky had the AUDACITY to expect one of the games to be at Rupp Arena!! Imagine that! But, yeah, it was nixed because Mike Krzyzewski refused to go to Rupp Arena. He wanted one game at the Cameron Indoor Bingo Hall, and one game on a neutral court. Kentucky politely declined this setup. Lute Olsen refused to acquiese to a two-game series with Duke also for the same reason, the Dookies didn't want to go to Arizona for a game.

If you notice Duke doesn't play an away game out of conference unless it's in the state of North Carolina or NYC. I don't really understand their reasoning for not going to home courts except for the losing reasoning. Too afraid of that I suppose.

Jpup
08-17-2006, 09:21 AM
You beat me to it, WVRed....

ESPN would have you believe that UNC is the only team that is capable of calling itself a 'rival' to Duke. Whenever UK and Duke have played over the years--the stakes have always seemed to be larger than normal.

Maryland.

Blimpie
08-17-2006, 09:53 AM
Maryland.I agree that ESPN also began hyping that rivalry--but only recently. Only since the Juan Dixon era at Maryland have the Terrapins been consistently competitve with Duke. My contention is that the UK vs. Duke series has been competitive for several decades; however, it doesn't get the same run because UK doesn't play Duke three times per year (a la UNC and Maryland).

Some of this information may be a little dated:


Series History
* This marks the 19th meeting between the rivals and the third in the last five seasons. Kentucky leads the series 11-7, but Duke has earned five of the last six wins. The Blue Devils were on a four-game series win streak when the Cats pulled the upset in the 1998 NCAA South Region Final.

* The teams last met at the 1998 Jimmy V Classic with the Devils taking the 71-60 decision after a 22-point performance by Elton Brand. Duke holds a 6-5 advantage at neutral sites.

* Five of the last seven games in the series have been decided by six points or less, three of which have been decided by two points or less and a fourth decided in overtime.

* Duke and UK have met four times in the NCAA Tournament with each team winning twice.

* Nine of the last 10 games in the series have occured at neutral sites, dating back to the Sugar Bowl turney in 1963. Overall, the teams have met at neutral sites 11 times with Duke holding a 6-5 edge.

* The first game in the series was played on March 3, 1930, a 37-32 Duke win in the Southern Conference Tournament, a league where both teams once competed.

* Coach Mike Krzyzewski is 3-1 against UK starting with an 80-55 victory in the Tip-Off Classic on Nov. 19, 1988.

* Coach Tubby Smith is 1-1 against Duke after grabbing a win in the '98 NCAA South Region Championship before his Cats suffered a loss the next December in the Jimmy V Classic.

Duke Series Information
Series Record: UK leads 11-7
In Lexington: UK leads 5-0
In Durham: Series tied at 1
At Neutral Sites: DU leads 6-5
Last Game: Dec. 22, 1998 - DU 71, UK 60
Website: GoDuke.com


Series Scores
DU 37, UK 32 3-3-30
UK 35, DU 30 2-28-31
UK 37, DU 30 2-6-32
UK 85, DU 69 12-21-53
UK 81, DU 76 2-1-56
DU 85, UK 84 12-18-56
UK 78, DU 74 12-2-57
UK 78, DU 64 12-8-58
UK 81, DU 79 12-31-63
UK 83, DU 79 3-18-66
UK 98, DU 76 12-20-69
UK 94, DU 88 3-27-78
DU 80, UK 76* 11-17-79
DU 55, UK 54 3-13-80
DU 80, UK 55 11-19-88
DU 104, UK 103* 3-28-92
UK 86, DU 84 3-22-98
DU 71, UK 60 12-22-98
*overtime

Jim Schue
08-18-2006, 03:07 AM
Exactly.

Just because two teams don't play every year doesn't mean its not a rivalry.

Perhaps, but shouldn't they play more often than once or twice a decade?

The reason games between UK and Duke are tense affairs is because their rare meetings occur in March.

It's not a rivalry not when one of the teams is extremely low on the concern scale with the opposing group of fans. UK fans need to worry about Florida. Duke fans sure don't care what you're doing. They have UNC, Maryland, NCSU, FlaSt, Wake, UVA, GaTech you know, their real rivals to worry about.

UK fans' hangup with Duke, and that stupid game, is mostly to do with the fact that the SEC has been a one trick pony in hoops for its entire history. With no legitimate, consistent, conference rival, UK fans have felt it necessary to manufacture rivalries that the other team's fans don't even know about.

WVRed
08-18-2006, 04:40 PM
Perhaps, but shouldn't they play more often than once or twice a decade?

The reason games between UK and Duke are tense affairs is because their rare meetings occur in March.

It's not a rivalry not when one of the teams is extremely low on the concern scale with the opposing group of fans. UK fans need to worry about Florida. Duke fans sure don't care what you're doing. They have UNC, Maryland, NCSU, FlaSt, Wake, UVA, GaTech you know, their real rivals to worry about.

UK fans' hangup with Duke, and that stupid game, is mostly to do with the fact that the SEC has been a one trick pony in hoops for its entire history. With no legitimate, consistent, conference rival, UK fans have felt it necessary to manufacture rivalries that the other team's fans don't even know about.

Of the teams you just listed, only Maryland and UNC would constitute as "real" rivals for Duke. That is like saying that Vanderbilt, Georgia, Arkansas, Alabama, and Mississippi St are rivals to UK.

But I guess by your logic Louisville and Indiana are not considered rivalries by UK either, since they dont play in the same conference. And yes, we have two "in-conference" rivals that we worry about. One is Florida, for obvious reasons, and the other is Tennessee.

dabvu2498
08-18-2006, 04:48 PM
Of the teams you just listed, only Maryland and UNC would constitute as "real" rivals for Duke. That is like saying that Vanderbilt, Georgia, Arkansas, Alabama, and Mississippi St are rivals to UK.

But I guess by your logic Louisville and Indiana are not considered rivalries by UK either, since they dont play in the same conference. And yes, we have two "in-conference" rivals that we worry about. One is Florida, for obvious reasons, and the other is Tennessee.
Duke fans are unaware that nonconference rivalries can exist due to their lack of willingness to play home-and-home series with anyone... and playing weak non-conference schedules overall.

WVRed
11-23-2006, 01:21 PM
Time to revisit this thread.

I honestly thought that Rondo was the problem, and I still believe he played a role in last years team problems. However, Ramel Bradley is starting to wear on me. When teams start to make comebacks, he becomes selfish and goes one on one to win the game. Joe Crawford is another, but he should be the one taking these shots, not Bradley. I can understand losing to UCLA by five, but getting blown out by Memphis is inexcusable.

I will say this, Tubby has borrowed some more time with this freshman class. Stevenson, Jasper, Porter, and Meeks have all been impressive, but he will have to ride this class if he wants to make it and give Bradley and possibly Crawford a seat.

If we can get Patrick Patterson next season to go along with Stevenson, Morris(assuming he doesnt go pro), Jasper, and Meeks, I think we have a real shot at making some noise next season.

RANDY IN INDY
11-23-2006, 05:21 PM
Tubby better start making some noise soon, unless things at UK have changed terribly. Patience with the pride of Lexington is not usually long. Personally, I think it is time for a change.

Blimpie
11-23-2006, 08:22 PM
I actually think that there is no shame in losing going away to Memphis. By March, they will be looked at as the same caliber team as UCLA--top 5 material IMO.

Regarding Ramel Bradley, I have a tendency to agree with you. I honestly thought with Rondo/Sparks gone he would begin to relax more and his play would reflect that.

I know we are only five games into a long season, so I am not ready to scrap the Bradley point guard experiment just yet. Although with Carolina looming in ten days, he had better learn to take care of the ball in the open court.

In actuality, I think Bradley makes a better # 2 guard than he does a point guard. Problem is that # 2 is the only position that Crawford can play because he is undersized to play small forward in the SEC.

The way I see it is that playing five games in less than seven days is not an ideal way to start the season. Especially with a Tubby Smith coached team. It is normally the end of December until he actually settles on a substitution pattern with his reserves. Until then, you are going to see alot of mixing and matching.

WMR
11-25-2006, 06:39 PM
I wonder if we'll see Randolph log some time at the 4 when Carter comes back? It would be a nice way to change things up against larger teams.

I too am beginning to really get sick of Bradley's street-ball antics. Wow, after watching that Memphis game, what a shame their diaper-dandy Freshman PG chose Memphis over UK... he'd have supplanted Bradley, no doubt about it.

I like these Freshman, they've clearly all got lots of growing to do, but the fact that they'll be relied on so heavily this season can only pay dividends in seasons to come...

The cost-benefit anaylsis between the inexperience and lost offensive production via substituting Jasper for Bradley is becoming closer and closer when considering Jasper's unselfishness, ceiling, and "true-PG" abilities...