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RedsFanatic
07-28-2006, 11:54 PM
got this from the reds.mlb.com boards

" 28708.1

On wlw just A few minutes ago said on a wlw report the reds are talking to zito but no trade has went down but I doubt it happens but they are talking..and also the reds are looking at greg maddux believe it or not..but no word yet might not even happen. just talks going on!! maybe a deal within the next few days is possible...!! "

TOBTTReds
07-28-2006, 11:56 PM
BBTN said "The Reds are pushing very hard to get starting pitching"

Blue
07-28-2006, 11:56 PM
let me be the first to say "It sounds made up."

dman
07-28-2006, 11:56 PM
got this from the reds.mlb.com boards

" 28708.1

On wlw just A few minutes ago said on a wlw report the reds are talking to zito but no trade has went down but I doubt it happens but they are talking..and also the reds are looking at greg maddux believe it or not..but no word yet might not even happen. just talks going on!! maybe a deal within the next few days is possible...!! "
Greg Maddux in a Reds uniform, keeeeeewl. Pleeease let this trade happen.

toledodan
07-28-2006, 11:57 PM
been listening to wlw and haven't heard anything yet. anyone else heard this?

bleedsred
07-28-2006, 11:58 PM
No thanks to Maddux...prob. have to overpay for a guy who has been getting knocked around of late. If he could be had without giving up major talent then ok.....

Wonder what Zito will command as far as trade?

Mario-Rijo
07-28-2006, 11:58 PM
Talking to Zito??? That must mean they have a deal in place, and they are discussing $$$? Hmmm, I doubt that 1 gets done. And I am actually concerned about what we would have to deal too get him!

traderumor
07-28-2006, 11:59 PM
I would take a chance on Maddux if its a mid-level prospect that gets it done. But I wouldn't give up much, even if it's a name #5 starter. I'd almost rather have Cory Lidle.

goreds2
07-29-2006, 12:00 AM
No offense to our Reds but Maddux has a no trade clause. I don't think he would approve a trade here (I wish he would though). His home is in Vegas. He would probably only approve a trade on the west coast or MAYBE Atlanta.

dman
07-29-2006, 12:01 AM
If we get either one, I'd also look for Bailey to be brought up and placed into a limited relief role.

Mario-Rijo
07-29-2006, 12:01 AM
ESPN insider says he (Maddux) would also consider the Mets now.

dman
07-29-2006, 12:03 AM
No offense to our Reds but Maddux has a no trade clause. I don't think he would approve a trade here (I wish he would though). His home is in Vegas. He would probably only approve a trade on the west coast or MAYBE Atlanta.
I know, but Maddux being my favorite player and the Reds being my favorite team, one can dream I guess. There's always the Xbox to where I can get him on a Reds team:thumbup:

Balls
07-29-2006, 12:05 AM
According to the STLToday.com the Reds are interested in..."Rodrigo Lopez, SP, Orioles He has terrific stuff, but he has been a disastrous performer this season in Baltimore. Perhaps moving to a contender and several top teams are interested, including the Reds would spur better performance down the stretch."

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/jeffgordon/story/253C90A3B60129C9862571B9005D55F9?OpenDocument

GoReds
07-29-2006, 12:06 AM
If the trade is for Zito, the Reds won't be bringing up Bailey - the A's will...next year.

goreds2
07-29-2006, 12:06 AM
I know, but Maddux being my favorite player and the Reds being my favorite team, one can dream I guess. :thumbup:

That reminds me the night I heard Tom Seaver was traded to the Reds. Before that, he was one of my favorite opposing players. I can understand you wanting this to happen. (fingers crossed)

Playadlc
07-29-2006, 12:07 AM
Rodrigo Lopez?

You gotta be kiddin' me.

dman
07-29-2006, 12:07 AM
That reminds me the night I heard Tom Seaver was traded to the Reds. Before that, he was one of my favorite opposing players. I can understand you wanting this to happen. (fingers crossed)
I remeber that trade also

goreds2
07-29-2006, 12:07 AM
ESPN insider says he (Maddux) would also consider the Mets now.

He wants to team with Glavine again, GREAT. :scared:

bleedsred
07-29-2006, 12:08 AM
As far as Lopez goes....I would rather the Reds give Germano a shot then to give up anything of substance for Lopez.

savafan
07-29-2006, 12:08 AM
Talking to Zito??? That must mean they have a deal in place, and they are discussing $$$? Hmmm, I doubt that 1 gets done. And I am actually concerned about what we would have to deal too get him!


To get Zito? I'd imagine Dunn, Griffey, Freel, EdE, Aurilia and Phillips....the pitching market is high this year after all...;)

toledodan
07-29-2006, 12:08 AM
If the trade is for Zito, the Reds won't be bringing up Bailey - the A's will...next year.


the only way i would trade for zito is if he signs a new deal.

dman
07-29-2006, 12:09 AM
This could be the point that dealing off Kearns and Lopez so hastily could come back to haunt Krivsky. Weren't the Cubs interested in Kearns early on?

bleedsred
07-29-2006, 12:11 AM
I would think that players see the Reds as a real contender with good management...I understand not wanting to come here with Dan O and Linder but things have changed greatly in less than 1 year. I don't get pitchers not wanting to play with a contender...wild card leader...with less than 60 games left in the season.

GoReds
07-29-2006, 12:11 AM
This could be the point that dealing off Kearns and Lopez so hastily could come back to haunt Krivsky. Weren't the Cubs interested in Kearns early on?

Could be. But I'm not sure Kearns/Lopez were very highly valued when they were dealt.

I don't think they would be principles in any deal for Zito. Maddux? Perhaps.

KoryMac5
07-29-2006, 12:18 AM
At this point we could throw out several names but to me I would think our biggest partners would be KC, Balt, and Philly to trade with. So Redman, Lidle, Lopez would be my top three possibilities. I just can't sse Krivs giving up that much (Wood, Cueto, and others) to get Zito.

dman
07-29-2006, 12:18 AM
But OTOH, Zito could be a more likely target to add a LH starter to the rotation

VR
07-29-2006, 12:20 AM
You might be able to get Maddux in a salary dump. Zito, serious chips, more than the Reds have.

redlegs2370
07-29-2006, 12:21 AM
Greg Maddux in a Reds uniform, keeeeeewl. Pleeease let this trade happen.
He has a lot of family in the Cincinnati area. I would say he wouldn't mind it.

Newman4
07-29-2006, 12:22 AM
According to the STLToday.com the Reds are interested in..."Rodrigo Lopez, SP, Orioles He has terrific stuff

The only way Lopez has terrific stuff is if he bought it at the store, because dude sure as hell can't pitch.;)

91OSUAlum
07-29-2006, 12:23 AM
Zito does not have the trade value you all think. He is a free agent and signed up Scott Boras. That means there is zero chance he will sign with his new team until he has tested the market. Bailey would not be required to get Zito.

Also the As are falling out of the race and Harden has been hurt all year.

I think Beane is looking to the future...

realistic
07-29-2006, 12:23 AM
This could be the point that dealing off Kearns and Lopez so hastily could come back to haunt Krivsky. Weren't the Cubs interested in Kearns early on?


If that trade were not made when it was, the Reds would probably have three more losses than they do now and be less likely to be involved in major trade sweepstakes anyway.

Most GM's know that Kearns numbers are about average for a starting major league outfielder. Most fans dont realize that. His durability is waaay below average. Likeable local boy sure, but average MLB'er at best.

Playadlc
07-29-2006, 12:25 AM
The A's are tied for 1st place in the AL West.

No way are they dealing Barry Zito right now.

howyoufreelin
07-29-2006, 12:28 AM
The A's have said they are definately open to trading Zito, but only if they get Lastings Milledge. Of Course, that is just what Buster Olney keeps saying. If Zito goes anywhere, it's to the Mets.

Newman4
07-29-2006, 12:29 AM
Also the As are falling out of the race

The A's are in 1st place. :rolleyes:

Clemson
07-29-2006, 12:30 AM
zito for bruce and a B prospect works for me

dealing bruce isnt too much of an issue bc as much as i like him you are gonna get 2 picks (likely 1 from a team between picks 15-30 and 1 comp round likely 31-39). i trust our scouting department enough to find me at least one player from those picks comparable to bruce. i know i might not get as good a guy there, but i'm willing to take the risk to get a daniel bard, matt garza, etc type player in hopefully both of those spots

in essence it is not dealing a prospect, but instead delaing 1.5 years of prospect development for zito.

zito for the playoff push and 1st round picks for bruce and a prospect sounds good to me

i would use the same logic on a guy like meche or any other type A free agent to be

CTA513
07-29-2006, 12:31 AM
No offense to our Reds but Maddux has a no trade clause. I don't think he would approve a trade here (I wish he would though). His home is in Vegas. He would probably only approve a trade on the west coast or MAYBE Atlanta.

He would be going to a winning team and going from Chicago to Cincinnati isnte like he would be moving across the world. Atlanta probably has the best shot at getting him, unless he wants to go to a team that will likely make the playoffs and Atlanta isnt exactly a lock for it.

Team Clark
07-29-2006, 12:34 AM
Zito could be Milton at GABP. No thanks. I would take a Maddux rental. Better than Mays/Claussen/AAA Fodder....

dman
07-29-2006, 12:39 AM
Zito could be Milton at GABP. No thanks. I would take a Maddux rental. Better than Mays/Claussen/AAA Fodder....
I just think even though he doesn't have what he used to, Maddux still has a lot that can be passed onto the younger arms in the rotation. Plus, it's not like he's exactly washed up neither. I've never really followed Zito, so TC, I'm trusting your keen judgement call on that.

Clemson
07-29-2006, 12:39 AM
Zito could be Milton at GABP. No thanks. I would take a Maddux rental. Better than Mays/Claussen/AAA Fodder....

true, jake westbrook is the guy to get. 3:1 GB:FB

im afraid of dontrelle's innings and number of pitches but word is they are interested in milledge and bruce is a comparable prospect so i'd try and jump in there too.

Mario-Rijo
07-29-2006, 12:51 AM
Olney:


Yankees in talks right now w/ Philly for a possible Abreu/Leiber deal

Sorry not trying to hijack, just seems an ideal place for this right now! BTW I like Westbrook also. How about Claussen & Votto for Zito? Assuming we think Zito is a solid guy.

Mario-Rijo
07-29-2006, 12:55 AM
This weekend is going to be insane with deals. Olney ran down a list of potential deals (none for us), it's nutty right now.

Dan
07-29-2006, 01:07 AM
the only way i would trade for zito is if he signs a new deal.

The only way I'd trade Bailey for Zito is if he signs a new deal.

bellhead
07-29-2006, 01:11 AM
Nobody is going to give up a their #1 or #2 prospect for Zito.

1.) He's a free agent after the year.
2.) He's a free agent who is a Scott Bora client.
3.) Zito will goto the Yanks for about $20 a year next year as the Yanks will overpay for him.


They will get offered 2 or 3 prospects who should be descent position or relief pitchers. But no Baily's or Mill the guy from the Mets. If the Met's or Reds give up a #1 prospect the GM should be shot.

CincyReds2003
07-29-2006, 01:18 AM
I was listening to WLW all night from the pre-game until Tracy was finished talking to the kid from Milwaukee, as well as us drunks.:beerme:, and I didn't hear any mention of this. When pitching was brought up during the 2nd inning, they talked about Germano, nothing in details as far as trades.

Dan
07-29-2006, 01:19 AM
Zito could be Milton at GABP. No thanks. I would take a Maddux rental. Better than Mays/Claussen/AAA Fodder....

Zito is that much of a flyball pitcher? Now maybe I'm not so excited.

KronoRed
07-29-2006, 02:54 AM
Westbrook could be had for cheap, Maddux too..Zito..that's a pipe dream.

EKURed
07-29-2006, 03:00 AM
If the Reds can land Westbrook, I'm all for it. I haven't heard his name in any trade rumors though.

Caveat Emperor
07-29-2006, 03:51 AM
If the Reds can land Westbrook, I'm all for it. I haven't heard his name in any trade rumors though.

Westbrook sure must like the cooking in Cleveland or something -- his home/away splits are truly split. If its an Ohio/Non-Ohio thing, I'm cool with bringing him aborad -- otherwise, eh...

10 Home Games, 10 Away Games:

HOME: 2.86 ERA
AWAY: 6.18 ERA

HOME: .626 OPSA
AWAY: .829 OPSA

GoReds
07-29-2006, 07:10 AM
Nobody is going to give up a their #1 or #2 prospect for Zito.

1.) He's a free agent after the year.
2.) He's a free agent who is a Scott Bora client.
3.) Zito will goto the Yanks for about $20 a year next year as the Yanks will overpay for him.


They will get offered 2 or 3 prospects who should be descent position or relief pitchers. But no Baily's or Mill the guy from the Mets. If the Met's or Reds give up a #1 prospect the GM should be shot.

If Zito is truly on the market, I would be shocked if the A's hadn't heard from the other 31 teams - multiple times.

The demand drives the market and Zito is certainly in demand.

I'd love to trade without giving up Bailey, but I'm not sure how. Maybe something like Votto, Larue, Ward, Germano for Zito and a prospect.

Whatever it might be, it won't be a couple of scrubs.

savafan
07-29-2006, 07:34 AM
3.) Zito will goto the Yanks for about $20 a year next year as the Yanks will overpay for him.




I'd be willing to look under my seat cushions for the extra $.50 it would take to outbid the Yanks next year. :D

Rocket_Fuel
07-29-2006, 07:49 AM
I'd rather take a flyer on Odalis Perez then over spend on Zito or go after Lopez.

Rocket_Fuel
07-29-2006, 07:51 AM
3.) Zito will goto the Yanks for about $20 a year next year as the Yanks will overpay for him.


20 bucks a year, I think we can handle that! ;)

Scoop55
07-29-2006, 08:10 AM
I know, but Maddux being my favorite player and the Reds being my favorite team, one can dream I guess. There's always the Xbox to where I can get him on a Reds team:thumbup:



Fox Sports Midwest has reported that Maddux has agreed to be traded to a CONTENDING team prior to the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline. Top suiters include the Dodgers, Padres and the Brewers.

I can't see why the Reds couldn't join their ranks and just pay cash, thus not jeopardizing our youth of the future. Just my opinion though.

dman
07-29-2006, 08:31 AM
Fox Sports Midwest has reported that Maddux has agreed to be traded to a CONTENDING team prior to the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline. Top suiters include the Dodgers, Padres and the Brewers.

I can't see why the Reds couldn't join their ranks and just pay cash, thus not jeopardizing our youth of the future. Just my opinion though.
One thing about it, Krinsky keeps a tight lid on anything that he's pondering. If there has ever been a person who could get it done, I believe it's Krivsky

princeton
07-29-2006, 08:34 AM
If the Reds can land Westbrook, I'm all for it.

that's always been the most likely scenario, IMO. Reds'll take someone that won't allow the ball to go into our outfield.

but Westbrook is a very poor man's Brandon Webb. You don't even want to know what the Reds would probably be willing to give up to get Brandon Webb. It's fortunate for the minor league lovers that Webb is surely unavailable.

dman
07-29-2006, 08:43 AM
Looking at Maddux's stats this season at 8-11; 4.83, he could come in somewhat of a bargain, for any team

StillFunkyB
07-29-2006, 08:49 AM
I'd really like to see The Mad Dog in a Reds uni.

Zito, not so much.

RANDY IN INDY
07-29-2006, 08:52 AM
Wouldn't mind seeing Maddux for the rest of the season, myself. He could really help some of the young guys on the staff.(Belisle comes to mind)

RBA
07-29-2006, 08:54 AM
He wants to team with Glavine again, GREAT. :scared:
Or course, they can pool their money together to bribe the umps again. :help:

RBA
07-29-2006, 08:56 AM
Looking at Maddux's stats this season at 8-11; 4.83, he could come in somewhat of a bargain, for any team

He's veteran who knows how to play the game the right way. I look for the Reds to overpay for him. :cool:

Ltlabner
07-29-2006, 09:20 AM
Looking at Maddux's stats this season at 8-11; 4.83, he could come in somewhat of a bargain, for any team

Good point. And if we can get him for cheep, not only can he solidify the back end of the rotation there is some value in having his computerized pitching brain around for the other pitchers to learn from. Can you imagine Harrang's scarry tallent with some pointers from Maddux? Or Bray getting pointers on how to be a "thinking pitcher"? Wow.

I know that's a very subjective and hard to define "value" but I think it's worth something.

And as always, because he's one of my favorite pitchers doesn't have anything at all to do with my desire to see him in a Reds uniform.

dman
07-29-2006, 09:31 AM
Good point. And if we can get him for cheep, not only can he solidify the back end of the rotation there is some value in having his computerized pitching brain around for the other pitchers to learn from. Can you imagine Harrang's scarry tallent with some pointers from Maddux? Or Bray getting pointers on how to be a "thinking pitcher"? Wow.

I know that's a very subjective and hard to define "value" but I think it's worth something.

And as always, because he's one of my favorite pitchers doesn't have anything at all to do with my desire to see him in a Reds uniform.
There are certainly a lot of "intangibles" to the possibility of acquiring Maddux

redsfan30
07-29-2006, 09:32 AM
The only one that even remotely excites me is Greg Maddux.

But I just have a feeling Rodrigo Lopez will be in a Reds uniform by 4:00 Monday.....

Hap
07-29-2006, 09:39 AM
Which Greg Maddux are we looking at? The 1992 version or the 2006 version?

91OSUAlum
07-29-2006, 09:57 AM
I wonder if pitching for a team which can provide some real offense would allow him to not try to be so perfect when he pitches. He was lights out in April when Lee and the Cubs were hitting well but since have stunk.

Coming to a team which can score 10 runs at any given moment may allow him to work it out and relax.

corkedbat
07-29-2006, 10:04 AM
I'd say there is a decent chance that the Reds/As may have asked the league for one of those 72hr. talking periods so the Reds can cut a deal before a trade.

I'm worried that Zito would be like Mulder and Hudson after their deals, a decent pitcher but not up to his former reputation. I also worry about the GAB affect on him.

I can't help but think that any deal would include the Athletics asking for Bailey - if so, I'm really hesitant to do it. Oakland isn't going to take on Dunn, so the only other Reds player that I could possibly imagine as a centerpiece for the As would be EdE and I don't see the A's wanting him unless Chavez is getting too expensive.

Despite my misgivings, if the Reds can work out a deal to extend Zito and the deal does not include Bailey, I do it - even grudgingly if it includes EdE. If Krivski can work a deal to lockup for a frontline pitcher for several years to combine with Harang and Arroyo without including Dunn, Encarnacion or Bailey he deserves to be MLB Executive of the Year.

I just don't see the depth of talent in the Reds system to get it done W/O Bailey - even with 4-5 players including Votto and Bruce.

[EDIT] I might take a rental on Zito for the rest of the season for a lesser package that doesn't include Dunn, EdE, Harang, Arroyo, Bailey or Bruce. You could audition him at the GAB and work on extending him while you have hi. Maybe he likes the clubhouse. Don't see much percentage in that for the A's though. Maybe Votto, Bray and a couple of minor league arms.

Krusty
07-29-2006, 10:58 AM
Talked to my brother who is a Phillies fan. He heard on talk radio down in Philly that the Reds were talking about acquiring RHP Jon Lieber from the Phillies for LHP Phil Dumtrait. Problem with the deal is Lieber's salary for 2007 which is 7.5 million. The Phils wanted another prospect in order to send cash in the deal.

Now if I'm the Reds, I would offer LaRue and Dumtrait for Lieber if the Phils weren't willing to add cash. Plus, the Phils might be looking for a veteran catcher to replace Lieberthal and the recently traded Fasano come 2007

corkedbat
07-29-2006, 11:02 AM
Talked to my brother who is a Phillies fan. He heard on talk radio down in Philly that the Reds were talking about acquiring RHP Jon Lieber from the Phillies for LHP Phil Dumtrait. Problem with the deal is Lieber's salary for 2007 which is 7.5 million. The Phils wanted another prospect in order to send cash in the deal.

Now if I'm the Reds, I would offer LaRue and Dumtrait for Lieber if the Phils weren't willing to add cash. Plus, the Phils might be looking for a veteran catcher to replace Lieberthal and the recently traded Fasano come 2007

I like Dumatrait for Lieber as much as I like Zito for Bailey and other top prospects.

Krusty
07-29-2006, 11:04 AM
I like Dumatrait for Lieber as much as I like Zito for Bailey and other top prospects.

Problem is there are few quality starting pitchers that are available. Livan Hernandez, Cory Lidle, Jon Lieber and Royals' Redman is what you have to choose from. Question the Reds have to ask if any of these pitchers are any better than Claussen?

11larkin11
07-29-2006, 11:07 AM
Dont listen to this trade rumor. This guy has started many different threads, making things up. He even said the Reds agreed to trade Dunn and Bailey to Philly for Brett Meyers and Tom Gordon on the night of the ASG.

dman
07-29-2006, 11:08 AM
Regarding Maddux, the other thing about the guy, even if he doesn't have what he used to, is that you will still get a lot of innings from him. He's durable (IIRC, 2002 was his only stint ever on the DL), and will take a team late into the game, with relatively few runs from the opposing team

dunner13
07-29-2006, 11:10 AM
I would like to see us get Tejada and Lopez in a deal. Not sure who we would give up but that would give us a great lineup and I think lopez might pitch good in the N.L. Lieber would be nice but that salary next year is horrible, hes not worth that at all. Mark Redman or Rodrigo Lopez seem like the most likely to be reds by monday to me.

Tommyjohn25
07-29-2006, 11:11 AM
Talked to my brother who is a Phillies fan. He heard on talk radio down in Philly that the Reds were talking about acquiring RHP Jon Lieber from the Phillies for LHP Phil Dumtrait. Problem with the deal is Lieber's salary for 2007 which is 7.5 million. The Phils wanted another prospect in order to send cash in the deal.

Now if I'm the Reds, I would offer LaRue and Dumtrait for Lieber if the Phils weren't willing to add cash. Plus, the Phils might be looking for a veteran catcher to replace Lieberthal and the recently traded Fasano come 2007

I have a feeling that one way or the other, the Reds will acquire Lieber. I picked him in the "Who do you think the Reds will get poll" and everything! ;)

I'd do Larue/Dumatrait for him in a heartbeat.

Krusty
07-29-2006, 11:11 AM
Regarding Maddux, the other thing about the guy, even if he doesn't have what he used to, is that you will still get a lot of innings from him. He's durable (IIRC, 2002 was his only stint ever on the DL), and will take a team late into the game, with relatively few runs from the opposing team

I'll say it again....will acquiring Maddux be an upgrade over Brandon Claussen for the fifth spot of the rotation? If it isn't much of an upgrade, why make the trade?

dman
07-29-2006, 11:15 AM
I'll say it again....will acquiring Maddux be an upgrade over Brandon Claussen for the fifth spot of the rotation? If it isn't much of an upgrade, why make the trade?
I guess I'm the wrong person to ask that question to. I've never been impressed with Claussen. The one thing Claussen has going for him is he's a southpaw. It's an apples and oranges thing when your looking to acquire a 300/3000 future HoFer with much post-season experience to pass on to a young and inexperieced staff

ickey333
07-29-2006, 11:21 AM
I like Dumatrait for Lieber as much as I like Zito for Bailey and other top prospects.

I agree. I don't know that Lieber helps us much at all...he's really been stinking it up this year. And with talks that the Phillies are thinking of packaging him with Abreu as a way to clear salary for next year and justify trading Abreu for less talent, I would hope that we would get Lieber for next to nothing...if at all.

If we were going to take a chance on a "buy low" pitcher for the stretch run, I would almost rather it be someone from the AL who could at least have a chance at a good (if not short) run when the NL batters adjust to their stuff. I'm not a big fan of either Lopez or Lohse but they both fall into this category and may or may not benefit from the league change (probably not) and are both still relatively young. While I admit I haven't seen Lieber pitch this year, his numbers don't look good and he may be about done.

Jpup
07-29-2006, 11:28 AM
I guess I'm the wrong person to ask that question to. I've never been impressed with Claussen. The one thing Claussen has going for him is he's a southpaw. It's an apples and oranges thing when your looking to acquire a 300/3000 future HoFer with much post-season experience to pass on to a young and inexperieced staff

he still has to pitch himself. He has been horrible for the past couple of months. Sign him up as pitching coach, otherwise, I wouldn't give up anything of value for him.

Tommyjohn25
07-29-2006, 11:32 AM
Well, regardless of who it is, I have a feeling that something is definitely on the horizon. Just a gut feeling, by Monday something on this team will be different.

wally post
07-29-2006, 12:13 PM
Good point. And if we can get him for cheep, not only can he solidify the back end of the rotation there is some value in having his computerized pitching brain around for the other pitchers to learn from. Can you imagine Harrang's scarry tallent with some pointers from Maddux? Or Bray getting pointers on how to be a "thinking pitcher"? Wow.

I know that's a very subjective and hard to define "value" but I think it's worth something.

And as always, because he's one of my favorite pitchers doesn't have anything at all to do with my desire to see him in a Reds uniform.

This sums up my thoughts exactly! I'm afraid of Zito in our park - and ALSO HATE who would end up losing to get him. The cubs have many needs....

wally post
07-29-2006, 12:14 PM
just a thought... how about Narron for MAddux! :D

corkedbat
07-29-2006, 12:17 PM
just a thought... how about Narron for MAddux! :D


No way! The Cubbies would probably insist we take Dusty! :scared:

NewEraReds
07-29-2006, 12:37 PM
There are certainly a lot of "intangibles" to the possibility of acquiring Madduxyea, and we'd get to watch another pitcher giving up homer after homer. he brings a lot, mentaly to the team, no doubt. but as a pitcher, i wouldnt want him on the reds. maybe if we could the maddux of old. but not the current model

Caveat Emperor
07-29-2006, 01:13 PM
I like Dumatrait for Lieber as much as I like Zito for Bailey and other top prospects.

I'd go so far as to say I'd rather call Phil Dumatrait up and accept whatever results he achieves as a 5th starter than trade for John Lieber and know that I'm getting two pocketfuls of awful when he takes the mound.

I don't see the point of trading for an old righty w/ an ERA north of 5 when you can probably get that kind of "production" cheaply from one of your jokers in the minors.

wally post
07-29-2006, 01:33 PM
Why did Claussen look so good with the Yankees?

Was Stottlemeyer that good?

I also still have hopes of Claussen turning into a jewel for us - it would be nice if we can keep him around - and why sell him (trade him) at his lowest value?

boognish
07-29-2006, 01:36 PM
I'd go so far as to say I'd rather call Phil Dumatrait up and accept whatever results he achieves as a 5th starter than trade for John Lieber and know that I'm getting two pocketfuls of awful when he takes the mound.

I don't see the point of trading for an old righty w/ an ERA north of 5 when you can probably get that kind of "production" cheaply from one of your jokers in the minors.

I agree with your rationale, CE.

I have always personally overrated Lieber, but the statistical proof shows his peripherals are horrible this season and he has had serious arm issues in the past, and has been DL'ed once already this season.

If it is a throwaway prospect dealt for him, I'd live, since the Reds have gotten so little from their fifth starters, but the question remains: would Lieber be an upgrade over Claussen/Germano or a guy like Dumatrait? I agree Lieber does not save the Reds many runs; why give up anything of value for him?

Handofdeath
07-29-2006, 01:37 PM
If the Reds can land Westbrook, I'm all for it. I haven't heard his name in any trade rumors though.


I read it, I think on Fox Sports, a few days back that he might go to the Red Sox for WMP.

blumj
07-29-2006, 01:40 PM
Why did Claussen look so good with the Yankees?

Was Stottlemeyer that good?

I don't think he was even on their major league team for any length of time.

redsfan30
07-29-2006, 01:46 PM
I don't think he was even on their major league team for any length of time.
I believe he made one start (a good one, 2 runs over 7 innings I believe).

cincyinco
07-29-2006, 01:47 PM
I don't think he was even on their major league team for any length of time.

Incorrect.

He made 1 start and shut out the mets in about 6 innings in his ML Debut.

edit: I wasn't correct... not a shut out.

1 start, 6.1 IP, 1BB, 5K, 2R, 1ER

Tornon
07-29-2006, 01:49 PM
I don't think he was even on their major league team for any length of time.

Correct, Claussen had made 1 major league appearance before coming to the Reds in the trade

Handofdeath
07-29-2006, 01:50 PM
The three teams mentioned always seem to be the Orioles, Phillies, and the Royals. We have catchers to trade and the Royals have John Buck so Redman is probably out. The other two teams catchers are OLD. When Lidle was having a couple of good seasons with Oakland back in 01-02, Krivsky was in the AL so I'm figuring maybe a Larue-Lidle deal.

LoganBuck
07-29-2006, 02:01 PM
just a thought... how about Narron for MAddux! :D

The Cubs would probably insist upon us taking Baker then.

corkedbat
07-29-2006, 02:40 PM
The Cubs would probably insist upon us taking Baker then.

Gosh, wish I'd thought of that. :D

redsfan4445
07-29-2006, 03:50 PM
to bad we couldnt do a 3way trade with A's, Reds and D-Backs!!

Zito to Arizona, Webb to the Reds.. and we package Dumtrait, Travis Wood and another prospect not named Bailey..

LINEDRIVER
07-29-2006, 04:08 PM
Looking at Maddux's stats this season at 8-11; 4.83, he could come in somewhat of a bargain, for any team

He had a very good month of April which makes his season numbers looks better. He went 5-0 with a 1.35 ERA in April.

However, in games thru Friday July 28, and in his last 16 starts going back to May 3rd, we see a diferent Maddux.

From May 3 thru July 28
16 starts
3 wins, 11 losses

97 innings
65 earned runs
6.03 ERA
1.46 WHIP

KronoRed
07-29-2006, 04:08 PM
I don't even think Bailey would get us Webb, they would want Harang+all the goodies from the minors

dman
07-29-2006, 04:10 PM
He had a very good month of April which makes his season numbers looks better.

However, in games thru Friday July 28, and in his last 16 starts going back to May 3rd, we see a diferent Maddux.

From May 3 thru July 28
16 starts
3 wins, 11 losses

97 innings
65 earned runs
6.03 ERA
1.46 WHIP
What kind of run support has he had during his losses and not so good games? I looked to see if I could find it game by game and couldn't come up with it.

Joseph
07-29-2006, 04:12 PM
What kind of run support has he had during his losses and not so good games? I looked to see if I could find it game by game and couldn't come up with it.

Chances are a guy with an ERA north of 6 hasn't lost too many Clemens-esque games in that stretch.

REDREAD
07-29-2006, 04:12 PM
Just wondering, Why are the Snakes shopping Webb?

TOBTTReds
07-29-2006, 04:12 PM
Maddux's career has been toast for a while. I do NOT want him anywhere near our team unless on the opposing hill.

Jpup
07-29-2006, 04:13 PM
What kind of run support has he had during his losses and not so good games? I looked to see if I could find it game by game and couldn't come up with it.

His ERA is over 6 in those games, why would it matter? The Reds aren't going to average 6 runs per game in his starts.

Jpup
07-29-2006, 04:14 PM
Just wondering, Why are the Snakes shopping Webb?

I can't believe they are.

Jpup
07-29-2006, 04:15 PM
Maddux is on the mound for the Cubs against St. Louis right now.

KronoRed
07-29-2006, 04:18 PM
I can't believe they are.
Me either, why would they unless they got more then they have now on the major league roster?

LINEDRIVER
07-29-2006, 04:22 PM
What kind of run support has he had during his losses and not so good games? I looked to see if I could find it game by game and couldn't come up with it.

Personally, I'm not as concerned about the 11 losses as I am with that 6 ERA and the hits per inning.

dman
07-29-2006, 04:25 PM
Personally, I'm not as concerned about the 11 losses as I am with that 6 ERA and the hits per inning.
Maddux probably is washed up, for the most part, at this point in his career. But maybe, just maybe, he could be that missing piece of the puzzle to help us make that playoff push.

Team Clark
07-29-2006, 04:57 PM
Me either, why would they unless they got more then they have now on the major league roster?

He is on the block but they want at least two young starters + an OF prospect in return. Which makes sense. The young pitchers will not cost them as much. Arizona is still paying off loans from their WS title run.

Jpup
07-29-2006, 05:00 PM
He is on the block but they want at least two young starters + an OF prospect in return. Which makes sense. The young pitchers will not cost them as much. Arizona is still paying off loans from their WS title run.

Bailey
Wood
Deno

Would that get it done? I wouldn't do it, but is that what they are wanting?

BrooklynRedz
07-29-2006, 05:05 PM
Bailey
Wood
Deno

Would that get it done? I wouldn't do it, but is that what they are wanting?

I'd do that deal in a blink of an eye and send the Snakes a Christmas card stuffed with 20s for the life of Webb's career.

Jpup
07-29-2006, 05:07 PM
I'd do that deal in a blink of an eye and send the Snakes a Christmas card stuffed with 20s for the life of Webb's career.

I would trade Bailey and Deno, but I don't know if I would want to trade both of my top pitching prospects for Webb.

I wouldn't be upset if it happenned, but I would prefer the Reds not give up as much.

Matt700wlw
07-29-2006, 05:09 PM
If the Reds get Zito I would sport wood - and you could go ahead and print playoff tickets.

:D

Zito in a new league? Look what it did for Arroyo...:thumbup:

Matt700wlw
07-29-2006, 05:13 PM
Fox Sports Midwest has reported that Maddux has agreed to be traded to a CONTENDING team prior to the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline. Top suiters include the Dodgers, Padres and the Brewers.

I can't see why the Reds couldn't join their ranks and just pay cash, thus not jeopardizing our youth of the future. Just my opinion though.


The Brewers are contenders?


Contenders give up Carlos Lee?

Jpup
07-29-2006, 05:14 PM
The Brewers are contenders?


Contenders give up Carlos Lee?

pretenders maybe.

princeton
07-29-2006, 05:18 PM
He is on the block but they want at least two young starters + an OF prospect in return. Which makes sense. The young pitchers will not cost them as much. Arizona is still paying off loans from their WS title run.

tough price, but the Reds should probably pay it. Brandon Webb solves a gazillion problems, plus he seems to be still improving. Who knows how good he gets?

Matt700wlw
07-29-2006, 05:20 PM
tough price, but the Reds should probably pay it. Brandon Webb solves a gazillion problems, plus he seems to be still improving. Who knows how good he gets?

I proposed Dunn for Webb about 2 years ago and people thought I was nuts.
:D

(I'm not trading Dunn now).

RANDY IN INDY
07-29-2006, 05:21 PM
Would probably be a real popular move in Ashland, Ky.

justincredible
07-29-2006, 05:24 PM
Brandon Webb in a Reds uni would be sweet, even if it did mean giving up Bailey. Webb is a stud with a career 3.35 ERA and is showing no signs of raising it this year. Yeah, Bailey has the potential to be great but Webb is great already and should be for a long time.

Always Red
07-29-2006, 05:27 PM
The Brewers are contenders?




No, but his brother is the pitching coach for the Brew Crew.

Maddux has been ineffective since May; I don't think he'll make any difference to a contender other than to let them down at this point in his career. I've loved watching him pitch over the years, and he has led me to see pitching as a CRAFT. I still cannot believe how big the strike zone got for him and Glavine when they were both with the Braves- anything near the outside corner was automatically a strike. That's what reputation will do for you! And we're starting to see that now a bit with Adam Dunn- nearly every time he takes a pitch, it is a ball, even if it's really not. Reminds me of what an old -timer (Rose?) once told a young umpire "I'll let you know when it's a strike."

I'd love to see Maddox finish out his fine career with Milwaukee, just to hang with his brother for a year. I don't believe they ever played on the same team together.

Falls City Beer
07-29-2006, 05:29 PM
tough price, but the Reds should probably pay it. Brandon Webb solves a gazillion problems, plus he seems to be still improving. Who knows how good he gets?

My guess is he's not available in any fashion.

But if I had to guess what it would take to pry him away, it would be a young, already-performing-at-the-MLB level starter/ace reliever, a AA or higher ace-level starting prospect, and some filler.

The Reds don't have that--heck, they've barely got the filler in the minors.

It'd be wiser to sell a team on the chimera that is Homer Bailey before he one day wakes up and realizes he's pitching in the Reds' farm system. That would mean getting back a pitcher of less than Webb's quality. Which is fine, if he's able to win for the Reds right now.

princeton
07-29-2006, 05:35 PM
My guess is he's not available in any fashion.

But if I had to guess what it would take to pry him away, it would be a young, already-performing-at-the-MLB level starter/ace reliever, a AA or higher ace-level starting prospect, and some filler.

my guess is that if he is in play, then Bailey/Bruce is a strong ante.

redsfan30
07-29-2006, 06:09 PM
Maddux just tipped his cap and said "thank you" while coming off the mound.

Does he know something??

cincyinco
07-29-2006, 06:15 PM
TC, can you elaborate on WHY in the world the D'backs would be looking for another OF? They have Quentin and Young, Gonzalez who could be fast tracked - Chad Tracy could play the OF in a spell, as could Jackson in an emergency.

It seems to me that they had a glut of outfielders, too many - as that kept Quentin from coming up last year and most of this year, when he obviously had nothing left to prove.

If there was one guy I would go after from the snakes other than the "big names" it would be William Chris Carter - 1B - AAA. He's blocked, at the big league level - and he's just raking. All year he's outperformed Quentin, Drew, and Young. What do you think of him?

Falls City Beer
07-29-2006, 06:15 PM
my guess is that if he is in play, then Bailey/Bruce is a strong ante.

Krivsky's second best move behind acquiring Arroyo was advancing Bailey to AA (and subsequently pimping him ad nauseam). So he's doing his damnedest to sell the kid. I certainly can't take that away from Wayne.

But I'm not sure that a Bailey/Bruce can't be trumped with relative ease.

Highlifeman21
07-29-2006, 06:27 PM
If the Reds get Zito I would sport wood - and you could go ahead and print playoff tickets.

:D

Zito in a new league? Look what it did for Arroyo...:thumbup:

Is it just me, or has the NL started to figure out Bronson? I still think he's done great things for us this year, but I think the NL has started to figure him out post ASB.

I think for the Reds to make the playoffs this year, we need a consistent 3rd starter not named Arroyo or Harang. Milton and Ramirez are too inconsistent, and we have a 5th starter by committee, or else it seems like it.

I can't imagine we're getting Zito, it sounds like most of us don't want a 1/3 season rental of Greg Madduz v2006, and is there anyone else out on the market that can really help us?

Is this really our year, or should we be focusing on making some key off season moves to give 2007 a run for the money?

Matt700wlw
07-29-2006, 06:28 PM
Is this really our year, or should we be focusing on making some key off season moves to give 2007 a run for the money?

You don't pick the year....the year picks you.

redsfan30
07-29-2006, 06:29 PM
Is this really our year, or should we be focusing on making some key off season moves to give 2007 a run for the money?
Why can't we do both?

princeton
07-29-2006, 06:36 PM
But I'm not sure that a Bailey/Bruce can't be trumped with relative ease.

I like Bailey a lot, but think that Jay Bruce might actually be Ace of Trump- best prospect in baseball

wheels
07-29-2006, 06:37 PM
I'd give up Bailey, Bruce and Wood for Brandon Webb.

He's the best pitcher in the NL this season.

Falls City Beer
07-29-2006, 06:39 PM
I like Bailey a lot, but think that Jay Bruce might actually be Ace of Trump- best prospect in baseball

There's no question that Bruce is the better prospect in the above constellation; still, it's difficult to sell teams on players they won't see at the MLB level for two or three seasons.

ochre
07-29-2006, 06:40 PM
I like Bailey a lot, but think that Jay Bruce might actually be Ace of Trump- best prospect in baseball
He's the right Bauer, jack if you will?

wheels
07-29-2006, 06:46 PM
If Wayne's going to be dealing at the deadline (or the waiver deadline), the only bullets he really has are Bruce, Bailey, Votto, and Wood.

If he's going to fire his bullets, they had better hit the guy wearing a Daimondbacks uniform.

TeamBoone
07-29-2006, 07:05 PM
Is it just me, or has the NL started to figure out Bronson? I still think he's done great things for us this year, but I think the NL has started to figure him out post ASB.

I don't think anyone would be saying this if Arroyo's record reflected how well he's actually pitched. IMHO, he's still got most batters quite befuddled.

Yes, he had a bad inning the other night and a bad game sometime before that, but for the most part he's still changing speeds and location so that it's difficult for the opposition to figure him out because they never know what to expect. He mixes it up pretty well.

wheels
07-29-2006, 07:31 PM
I think Bronson's hitting a bit of a wall.

Not necessarily because hitters are "figuring him out".

I think it's mostly because of an increased work load. Not that I think he's gassed, or completely worn out....More like a little winded.

I say don't run him out there for more than six innings over the next start or two.

He's a skinny guy, and he needs a little bit of a breather.

Blue
07-29-2006, 07:35 PM
From Will Carrol's "Will's Mill" on BP:

"You haven't seen Wayne Krivsky's Reds in many trade rumors this weekend. That's not to say the Reds aren't trying to make moves. They have one offer out on a player that would really signal a new era in Cincy, though it's unlikely to happen. (Yes, I'll give you the name soon.)"

TeamBoone
07-29-2006, 07:37 PM
Must be Zito... and giving up the farm + the rest of the team.

wheels
07-29-2006, 07:40 PM
Zito's good and all, but I don't think he's a "New Era" kind of guy.

corkedbat
07-29-2006, 07:42 PM
Must be Zito... and giving up the farm + the rest of the team.


I predict if they do somehow land Zito it sets the rebuilding of the farm system back by a season-and-a-half.

Hope I'm wrong, but I'm starting to wrry that the whole Aurillia/Hatteberg/Claton/Castro/McCracken/Hammond/Mercker/Weathers thing is a philosophy and not a stopgap.

princeton
07-29-2006, 07:51 PM
If he's going to fire his bullets, they had better hit the guy wearing a Daimondbacks uniform.

dead or alive? I see a problem with that...

KronoRed
07-29-2006, 07:52 PM
You don't pick the year....the year picks you.
I don't really buy into that, trying to win is one thing, emptying the farm out for 1 shot is insanity, especially when you can't buy your way out of it like big market teams can

Redsfan08
07-29-2006, 09:23 PM
I can only pray

redlegs7089
07-29-2006, 09:26 PM
I'd give up Bailey, Bruce and Wood for Brandon Webb.

He's the best pitcher in the NL this season.



hope ur kiddn

Redsfan08
07-29-2006, 09:29 PM
I just hope we get Zito I would love to have him we would actually get fans in the stands.

jmcclain19
07-29-2006, 09:33 PM
I think Bronson's hitting a bit of a wall.

Not necessarily because hitters are "figuring him out".

I think it's mostly because of an increased work load. Not that I think he's gassed, or completely worn out....More like a little winded.

I say don't run him out there for more than six innings over the next start or two.

He's a skinny guy, and he needs a little bit of a breather.

The fact that Harang and Arroyo both are in the Top 10 in the Majors in pitcher abuse points (PAP)

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=26922

should raise some alarm bells. Should that is, but hasn't really yet.

Redsfan08
07-29-2006, 10:26 PM
I want zito I want zito krivsky krivsky please deliver.

KronoRed
07-29-2006, 10:30 PM
Zito would be out of here at the end of the year, no overpaying for a rental.

goreds2
07-29-2006, 10:35 PM
Bill Hall is on the star of the game, GREAT. :rolleyes: