PDA

View Full Version : Rheal Cormier a Red



Joseph
07-31-2006, 09:35 AM
For Justin Germano, per 1530.

redsfan30
07-31-2006, 09:35 AM
Per the Angry Guys. Details coming.

Ltlabner
07-31-2006, 09:36 AM
And I just voted "no" on the "will the Reds make a move poll". Thanks Wayne!

NJReds
07-31-2006, 09:37 AM
I guess Germano's start was a "showcase" start.

Joseph
07-31-2006, 09:38 AM
Not sure I like the deal or not.

Bye bye Shack though?

redsfan30
07-31-2006, 09:39 AM
Cormier's 2006 numbers:

1.59 ERA
34 Innings
2 Homeruns allowed
13/13 K/BB

redsfan30
07-31-2006, 09:40 AM
Nice little pickup, but not what the team really needed.

Is Wayne done for the day??

princeton
07-31-2006, 09:41 AM
Mercker must be out indefinitely

longer shot: Bray to get starts

deltachi8
07-31-2006, 09:41 AM
WHile I like his addition to the BP, the gaping holes that are 4-5 starters is what concerns me most.

cincy09
07-31-2006, 09:43 AM
interesting start to what could be an intersting day!

wolfboy
07-31-2006, 09:43 AM
Not sure I like the deal or not.

Bye bye Shack though?

A 1:1 K/BB concerns me. A 3.44 K/9 also concerns me. Anyone know how he has been able to maintain such a nice ERA, WHIP and OPSA without missing many bats?

osuceltic
07-31-2006, 09:44 AM
Mercker must be out indefinitely
Definitely feels like an insurance policy. I like it. The guy has been really effective this season. I know there are a lot of people who hate the Kearns-Lopez trade, but in the course of about three weeks this bullpen has gone from a fatal flaw to a strength.

Will it be enough to get them to the playoffs? I'm not sure. They need one more starter. Unlike most here, I think a Mark Redman would be an excellent pickup. He's mediocre, but we NEED mediocre from that fifth spot. He's better than any in-house candidate. And don't discount the AL-NL switch. I'd be thrilled to add Redman and Cormier today and take my chances the rest of the way.

redsfan30
07-31-2006, 09:44 AM
Mercker must be out indefinitely

longer shot: Bray to get starts
Or could Belisle be moving to the rotation upon his return?

Or is Wayne just getting started?

FutureRedsGM
07-31-2006, 09:45 AM
WHile I like his addition to the BP, the gaping holes that are 4-5 starters is what concerns me most.

You absolutely hit the nail on the head there. Cormier bolsters an already decent bullpe, but this DOES NOT address the team's real needs which are starting pitching and offensive production from the SS position. Hopefully this is just the beginning of a busy day for Krivsky. Could Cormier be headed back out in return for a starter?

flyer85
07-31-2006, 09:46 AM
Bye bye Shack though?Hope not, Shack is top notch in the role of the LOOGY. Cormier is like Bray/Mercker, more effective against RH batters.

smith288
07-31-2006, 09:47 AM
Has anyone besides Redszone said that SS is a problem? Im beginning to think its wishful thinking that K thinks we need to bolster the position.

flyer85
07-31-2006, 09:47 AM
longer shot: Bray to get startsSeeing as he was reliever in college and in the minors I can't imagine that is up for discussion.

flyer85
07-31-2006, 09:47 AM
Im beginning to think its wishful thinking that K thinks we need to bolster the position.Clayton :thumbup:

redsfan30
07-31-2006, 09:48 AM
I tell you what, Wayne has turned this into one decent bullpen.

Now get us a starter by 4:00 and let's go win this thing!

Cyclone792
07-31-2006, 09:49 AM
A 1:1 K/BB concerns me. A 3.44 K/9 also concerns me. Anyone know how he has been able to maintain such a nice ERA, WHIP and OPSA without missing many bats?

.232 BABIP, as shown by Cormier's Fan Graphs page (http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=952&position=P). Krivsky must like those guys with low BABIPs, or just not understand the concept. I'm worried about Cormier's K/BB, but I do like the low HR allowed total. For his career, Cormier's HR/9 is 0.86, which I'll take.

Germano's not a world-beater, though, and he had a less than stellar K rate in the minors. If Cormier can continue to avoid the longball, I think he can help, and I don't think the risk of losing Germano is too great. Interesting that the Randa deal eventually turned into two rental relief pitchers this season in Guardado and Cormier.

flyer85
07-31-2006, 09:50 AM
I tell you what, Wayne has turned this into one decent bullpen.Now if Naroon would only use it.

BTW, I thought you had to trade everyday players to get relief pitchers.

FutureRedsGM
07-31-2006, 09:52 AM
Interesting that the Randa deal eventually turned into two rental relief pitchers this season in Guardado and Cormier.

Are they both rentals? Both contracts expire after this season?

redsfan30
07-31-2006, 09:53 AM
Are they both rentals? Both contracts expire after this season?
I've got to think the Reds will have a decent shot at signing Guardado past this season, but who knows about Cormier.

BRM
07-31-2006, 09:54 AM
Has anyone besides Redszone said that SS is a problem? Im beginning to think its wishful thinking that K thinks we need to bolster the position.

I get the impression that Narron and Krivsky are both happy with the current SS duo of Clayton and Castro.

shredda2000
07-31-2006, 09:55 AM
I guess since Wayne K missed out on the Abreu - Lidle sweepstakes, he settled for the next best thing :D

osuceltic
07-31-2006, 09:56 AM
I get the impression that Narron and Krivsky are both happy with the current SS duo of Clayton and Castro.
They're fine for this season. Wayne will address it in the offseason, either by moving Phillips to short and finding a second baseman or by finding a shortstop.

It's always a process.

REDREAD
07-31-2006, 09:58 AM
Great trade by Wayne. This is what you're supposed to do. Trade marginal prospects for bullpen stretch run help.

Cormier will help a lot down the stretch. Of course, we need to get Narron to have a quicker hook with his starters now that the pen has improved.

In no way should Bray ever get a start. Haven't we yet learned that converting longtime relievers to starters tends to fail 95% of the time :)

redsfan30
07-31-2006, 09:59 AM
5:00 news conference.

That tells me Wayne is at least trying to make another move.

Rheal Cormier by himself doesn't need a news conference.

markymark69
07-31-2006, 09:59 AM
I tell you what, Wayne has turned this into one decent bullpen.

Now get us a starter by 4:00 and let's go win this thing!


Sounds good to me.

wolfboy
07-31-2006, 09:59 AM
.232 BABIP, as shown by Cormier's Fan Graphs page (http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=952&position=P). Krivsky must like those guys with low BABIPs, or just not understand the concept. I'm worried about Cormier's K/BB, but I do like the low HR allowed total. For his career, Cormier's HR/9 is 0.86, which I'll take.

Germano's not a world-beater, though, and he had a less than stellar K rate in the minors. If Cormier can continue to avoid the longball, I think he can help, and I don't think the risk of losing Germano is too great. Interesting that the Randa deal eventually turned into two rental relief pitchers this season in Guardado and Cormier.

I figured he was pretty BABIP lucky. I just don't see guys like Aurilia, Griffey, and Clayton sustaining his luck.

I had the same thought about the HR totals. They are encouraging, especially since he is coming from Philly.

Thanks for the info Jason.

flyer85
07-31-2006, 09:59 AM
Comier is an excellent bet to implode.

H% is 23 and Strand% is 89. No way will that continue. His xERA is 4.02 and has only 13Ks in 34IP.

Can Wayne tell the diffenence between luck and skill. See Melvin(Brewers) he actually brought in a relief pitcher that might help. Cordero's xERA is 2.74.

Cordero has been extremely unlucky while Cormier has been beyond lucky to this point.

Ask Majewski how luck can turn around in a hurry when those BABIP and Strand numbers normalize.

puca
07-31-2006, 10:01 AM
I don't really like Cormier because he is due for a BABIP correction, and when it comes he will not provide much help out of the pen.

On the other side, Germano is not a whole lot to give up and would probably be in danger of losing his 40 man roster spot this offseason anyhow.

Red Leader
07-31-2006, 10:04 AM
With the trade market being what it is for relief pitchers, I'd like to see Wayne trade Majewski for some prospects. With Cormier here we now might even have a little depth to trade off a bullpen arm. This is a good market for selling relief pitchers and if Majewski was supposedly worth Kearns in a trade, Krivsky should be able to get decent prospects in return for him.

wheels
07-31-2006, 10:04 AM
5:00 news conference.

That tells me Wayne is at least trying to make another move.

Rheal Cormier by himself doesn't need a news conference.

That's true.

Where did you read that they have a presser scheduled?

RBA
07-31-2006, 10:05 AM
5:00 news conference.

That tells me Wayne is at least trying to make another move.

Rheal Cormier by himself doesn't need a news conference.

There have been Press Conferences for less.

smith288
07-31-2006, 10:05 AM
In no way should Bray ever get a start. Haven't we yet learned that converting longtime relievers to starters tends to fail 95% of the time

Longtime? Bray was learning to drive about 2 years ago! LOL!

Red Leader
07-31-2006, 10:06 AM
There have been Press Conferences for less.

...like picking up Bob Boone's option. :evil:

...and announcing that Derek Jeter has been named captain of the Yankees.:angry:

redsfan30
07-31-2006, 10:06 AM
That's true.

Where did you read that they have a presser scheduled?
Right as the Angry Guys were going off he mentioned the Reds having a 5:00 presser.

flyer85
07-31-2006, 10:07 AM
With the trade market being what it is for relief pitchers, I'd like to see Wayne trade Majewski for some prospects. send Clayton with him.

BTW, Cormier is likely to experience regression to the mean much harder than even Majewski has.

smith288
07-31-2006, 10:08 AM
send Clayton with him.

BTW, Cormier is likely to experience regression to the mean much harder than even Majewski has.
The Reds D will make sure of that

Far East
07-31-2006, 10:16 AM
The future is now, and I think Cormier helps the Reds win more games this year, but I loved Germano's last outing.

Anybody who can command a sometimes tight, hard curve and a sometimes slower looping one and paint the bottom of the zone with sinkers is going to be an innings eater for many years.

I agree with Narron that Justin certainly did not look like a rookie out there. Sorry he's gone.

flyer85
07-31-2006, 10:20 AM
I think Cormier helps the Reds win more games this yearWhy?

smith288
07-31-2006, 10:21 AM
Well the Phillies fans show mixed feelings about it

link (http://www.philliesphans.com/phorum/viewtopic.php?t=35380&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)

REDREAD
07-31-2006, 10:21 AM
Longtime? Bray was learning to drive about 2 years ago! LOL!

But he was a reliever all through the minors as well and only has two pitches.

I know you were joking around, but I don't want to waste 2 years of Bray's career trying to convert him into a starter.

osuceltic
07-31-2006, 10:27 AM
Why?
Well, even though you've alreday concluded he's nothing but lucky and is going to have a terrible second half of the season, a few of us actually believe he's better than some of the pitchers in the pen -- and insurance in case Mercker is out a while. Considering Germano wasn't going to help this team this season at all, I think they improved the team with this move.

registerthis
07-31-2006, 10:28 AM
1) We gave up a minor league prospect with little future in Cinci for Cormier

2) He's been BABIP lucky, but there's nothing to mandate that can't continue in Cincinnati. If he's going to be BABIP lucky, it might as well be for us

3) He keeps the yard, and has consistently done so throughout his career.

I don't see how people can complain about this trade. If he absolutely implodes and his ERA balloons by 3, then Wayne took a gamble with very few chips and it simply didn't pan out. If Cormier continues his hot streak then the Reds have found themselves another serviceable reliever for very little cost. I like this deal.

Willy
07-31-2006, 10:33 AM
Reds signed him to an extention

Red Leader
07-31-2006, 10:34 AM
Reds signed him to an extention

What???!!!

Willy
07-31-2006, 10:35 AM
per Marc

2007 with option for 2008

flyer85
07-31-2006, 10:36 AM
I don't see how people can complain about this trade. If he absolutely implodes and his ERA balloons by 3, then Wayne took a gamble with very few chips and it simply didn't pan out. If Cormier continues his hot streak then the Reds have found themselves another serviceable reliever for very little cost. I like this deal.No complaining from me, it's WKs team. Germano is unlikely a long term solution as a starter. I just pointed out that a)Cormier has been lucky to this point in the season b) the probablility is the luck will not hold, it could.

Is was the exact same thing that was pointed out when Majewski was acquired. Certainly the price paid for Cormier was small in comparison to what the Reds gave up for Majewski and Bray.

markymark69
07-31-2006, 10:37 AM
Signed to a one-year extension with an option for 2008 according to the press release on Reds.com

Red Leader
07-31-2006, 10:38 AM
Seriously. This crap has to stop. I know I'm just starting the hypocritical "I want the Reds to compete" vs "I don't want them to compete because they are selling off all of their prospects" but....geez. I liked this trade at first, but picking up Cormier's option when he'll be 40 and trading Zach Ward for Lohse (maybe). That Ward for Lohse trade is absolutely terrible, IMO.

cincy09
07-31-2006, 10:39 AM
any info on the (supposed) Loshe Ward trade?

smith288
07-31-2006, 10:40 AM
What???!!!
Solid vet
Knows how to win
Solid vet
Knows how to win
Solid vet
Knows how to win

Reds4Life
07-31-2006, 10:41 AM
Press conference has been scheduled for 4:30pm today, not sure if it's to announce this trade + extension, or if something bigger is going to go down.

registerthis
07-31-2006, 10:43 AM
Is was the exact same thing that was pointed out when Majewski was acquired. Certainly the price paid for Cormier was small in comparison to what the Reds gave up for Majewski and Bray.

I'd also like to point out that Cormier has far better numbers than Majewskil did when the Reds acquired him, and both pitch in pitchers parks. i do think Cormier will be an asset, and I like that they didn't give up much for him. If they had traded Hatteberg or whatnot, I would feel differently.

I'm none too enthralled about the contract extension, though. I don't get that at all.

redsmetz
07-31-2006, 10:44 AM
I guess Germano's start was a "showcase" start.

That thought occurred to me this morning and I'm kicking myself for not having demonstrated that I'm a tiny bit prescient. :)

It came to me that why would they have sent him back down so quickly and a light went on - they were showcasing him.

Phil in BG
07-31-2006, 10:45 AM
Signed to a one-year extension with an option for 2008 according to the press release on Reds.com

Chances are this is the only way Cormier agreed to the trade.

Willy
07-31-2006, 10:45 AM
With Mercker retiring at the end of the year, I see no reason not to sign Cormier to the extention.

RedsManRick
07-31-2006, 10:47 AM
Cormier's OSLG is .325. If you don't walk people and don't give up extra base hits, you don't give up many runs. Cormier is a ground ball guy who doesn't miss a ton of bats. What you see is what you get.

redsmetz
07-31-2006, 10:48 AM
Has anyone besides Redszone said that SS is a problem? Im beginning to think its wishful thinking that K thinks we need to bolster the position.

I'm coming late to this discussion, but I'm still of the mind that Clayton was a throw in and is just for this year. I'm fine with creeping along with him and Castro and Aurillia or Phillips going there for the remainder of the year. I certainly wouldn't give up a lot for some other rental.

keeganbrick
07-31-2006, 10:54 AM
Did the Reds really just trade for someone with low HR totals for his career? But that contract extension has to be part of the deal.

REDREAD
07-31-2006, 10:57 AM
I'm none too enthralled about the contract extension, though. I don't get that at all.

I think Cormier had either 10/5 or a no trade clause. The Reds might've been forced to pick up his option to make the trade go through (else he'd veto it).

Not positive about the no trade rights, but I think Rheal has it.

HumnHilghtFreel
07-31-2006, 11:02 AM
Now that I know we traded for Lohse, I'd rather we kept Germano.

flyer85
07-31-2006, 11:02 AM
Cormier is a ground ball guy who doesn't miss a ton of bats. What you see is what you get.Insteresting that the Phillies left side of the infield (Rollins/Bell) is light years beyond the left side of the Reds infield(clayton, aurilia). Wonder how that might play into his h%?

BTW, don't sell Bell short as a defender. I believe it was Dewan that stated the Bell should have won the gold glove in the NL last year.

Joseph
07-31-2006, 11:09 AM
Not sure if this was mentioned, but he apparently signed a 1 year extension with an Option for '08.

Edit: NM, it was. :)

LexingtonRedleg
07-31-2006, 11:28 AM
A 1:1 K/BB concerns me. A 3.44 K/9 also concerns me. Anyone know how he has been able to maintain such a nice ERA, WHIP and OPSA without missing many bats?

a groundball pitcher perhaps? Honestly, I haven't followed him a lot, but I do think he has a decent cutter and a sinker.

ThornWithin81
07-31-2006, 11:34 AM
Now if Naroon would only use it.

BTW, I thought you had to trade everyday players to get relief pitchers.

Cormier is 39. Had Bray and Maj both been in their late 30's, we would have been able to get them for far, far less.

The younger they are, the higher the price. If Maj settles down, its two good trades in my book.

ChaseReds
07-31-2006, 11:34 AM
Well the Phillies fans show mixed feelings about it

link (http://www.philliesphans.com/phorum/viewtopic.php?t=35380&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)

I found one person who didnt "like" the trade. Everyone else either:

1. Thought it was average
2. Liked it
3. Loved it

Mixed is a strong word.

RedBengal
07-31-2006, 01:04 PM
Insteresting that the Phillies left side of the infield (Rollins/Bell) is light years beyond the left side of the Reds infield(clayton, aurilia). Wonder how that might play into his h%?

BTW, don't sell Bell short as a defender. I believe it was Dewan that stated the Bell should have won the gold glove in the NL last year.


Do you mean David Bell? http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5343 I guess you missed that trade a couple of days ago...

Willy
07-31-2006, 01:06 PM
$2.25 Million is what the Reds will pay Cromier in 2007.

flyer85
07-31-2006, 01:09 PM
Do you mean David Bell? http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5343 I guess you missed that trade a couple of days ago...Nope.

For the majority of this season David Bell has been the 3b for Rheal COrmier. Now he will have Rich Aurilia, a serious downgrade.

duh_vinci
07-31-2006, 01:09 PM
2.25 million for a lefty who gets righties out and is 40 in 07... hmmm... What if his arm falls off before the season begins? Will we get a refund?

flyer85
07-31-2006, 01:11 PM
If Maj settles down... still haven't figured out what happened to him on the trip to Cincy? :p:

RedBengal
07-31-2006, 01:11 PM
Nope.

For the majority of this season David Bell has been the 3b for Rheal COrmier. Now he will have Rich Aurilia, a serious downgrade.


I understand now, and it makes sense. Sorry for the mis-understanding.

Always Red
07-31-2006, 01:12 PM
After seeing those numbers, if they're right, I had just had a very nauseating thought:

Rheal Cormier = Chris Hammond??

I sure hope not!

duh_vinci
07-31-2006, 01:19 PM
Ugh...Always...you have passed that nauseous feeling on to me...thanks. :P

flyer85
07-31-2006, 01:24 PM
After seeing those numbers, if they're right, I had just had a very nauseating thought:

Rheal Cormier = Chris Hammond??

I sure hope not!the difference is that Hammonds HR rate started to balloon last season while pitching in a serious HR depressing park and he was a flyball pitcher. Cormier keeps the ball on the ground. The question I would wonder is the Reds left side of the infield. There are not likely to be up to task of getting to and fielding all those ground balls.

keeganbrick
07-31-2006, 01:26 PM
the difference is that Hammonds HR rate started to balloon last season while pitching in a serious HR depressing park and he was a flyball pitcher. Cormier keeps the ball on the ground. The question I would wonder is the Reds left side of the infield. There are not likely to be up to task of getting to and fielding all those ground balls.
They need to start Castro over Clayton from here on out. Castro's D just amazes me every time I watch him play. His offense and base running cant be much worse than Claytons'.

flyer85
07-31-2006, 01:28 PM
They need to start Castro over Clayton from here on out.They need to acquire a SS that is actually an excellent defender. Calling Cesar Izturis.

Always Red
07-31-2006, 01:28 PM
the difference is that Hammonds HR rate started to balloon last season while pitching in a serious HR depressing park and he was a flyball pitcher. Cormier keeps the ball on the ground. The question I would wonder is the Reds left side of the infield. There are not likely to be up to task of getting to and fielding all those ground balls.
Thanks, Ricardo, I feel much better now!

osuceltic
07-31-2006, 01:32 PM
the difference is that Hammonds HR rate started to balloon last season while pitching in a serious HR depressing park and he was a flyball pitcher. Cormier keeps the ball on the ground. The question I would wonder is the Reds left side of the infield. There are not likely to be up to task of getting to and fielding all those ground balls.
So we don't want fly ball pitchers because of our ballpark and we don't want ground ball pitchers because of our infield defense ... is that right? So we want strikeout pitchers. If only it were that easy.

Keep the ball in the park and I'll take my chances with this infield defense, sans Lopez. Aurilia-Clayton isn't great, but it will get the job done.

flyer85
07-31-2006, 01:34 PM
So we don't want fly ball pitchers because of our ballpark and we don't want ground ball pitchers because of our infield defense ... is that right? So we want strikeout pitchers. If only it were that easy.

Keep the ball in the park and I'll take my chances with this infield defense, sans Lopez. Aurilia-Clayton isn't great, but it will get the job done.I have pointed that this Reds team is a group of mismatched parts. GB pitchers are and always will be highly dependent on the infield defense. Most of those balls (especially for a LHP) are hit to the 3b/ss. Aurilia and Clayton are decidely below average.

keeganbrick
07-31-2006, 01:34 PM
They need to acquire a SS that is actually an excellent defender. Calling Cesar Izturis.
The only difference between the 2 is a little range.

smith288
07-31-2006, 01:52 PM
I found one person who didnt "like" the trade. Everyone else either:

1. Thought it was average
2. Liked it
3. Loved it

Mixed is a strong word.
Mixed means more than one ingredient in one cocktail. I think my word is just fine thanks.

ChaseReds
07-31-2006, 01:57 PM
Mixed means more than one ingredient in one cocktail. I think my word is just fine thanks.
:laugh: good point

ChaseReds
07-31-2006, 02:00 PM
According to MLBtradeRumors:



Reds Acquire Lohse, Cormier
Wayne Krivsky did some tinkering this morning,
picking up Kyle Lohse and Rheal Cormier in separate trades.

Lohse, 27, was demoted on May 17th.
After four solid efforts in Rochester, he was recalled
and used in middle relief. Maybe, just maybe, he can
get by as a fifth starter in the NL.

The aggregate line of all the hitters Lohse has
faced this year is
.269/.334/.426 (.760 OPS).
In comparison, Bronson Arroyo's
batters faced have managed an
aggregate .756 OPS and Aaron Harang's competition is at .754.
So it's not like the NL Central is that much easier than the
AL Central based on quality of batters faced.

Cormier has posted a 1.59 ERA and 1.18 WHIP this season
in 34 innings for the Phils. I'm surprised Krivsky didn't give
up Homer Bailey to get him. One note about Cormier
is that he has not been used in high leverage situations
this year. Baseball Prospectus ranks him fifth in leverage
on his own team. Among pitchers who haven't started or
closed this year, Scott Linebrink leads in leverage.
He's followed by Scot Shields, Kyle Farnsworth,
Matt Wise, Duaner Sanchez, and Roberto Hernandez.

cincrazy
07-31-2006, 02:12 PM
I think people overrated our ballpark as a home run ballpark. Is it a home run ballpark? Of course. But, often enough the national media doesn't take into account that since this ballpark has opened, we've had one of the worst pitching staffs ANYWHERE, not just at our ballpark, and we've also had one of the best slugging lineups ANYWHERE, not just in our ballpark. So as long as a pitcher can come here and execute his pitches, such as Harang and Arroyo, they should be fine.

GOREDSGO32
07-31-2006, 02:12 PM
Lohse, Cormier, Bray, Majeski, Guardado, Weathers, Shackleford, Standridge .... who goes?

flyer85
07-31-2006, 02:17 PM
Lohse, Cormier, Bray, Majeski, Guardado, Weathers, Shackleford, Standridge .... who goes?basing it on the numbers, Shack and Weathers would be the ones to go. However, I can't see the Reds DFAing Weathers, he's a very scrappy veteran(albeit with an extremely bloated HR rate).

Willy
07-31-2006, 02:25 PM
Lohse, Cormier, Bray, Majeski, Guardado, Weathers, Shackleford, Standridge .... who goes?

Where is Coffey???

bounty37h
07-31-2006, 02:26 PM
I've got to think the Reds will have a decent shot at signing Guardado past this season, but who knows about Cormier.

Think i read they already signed Cormier to 07, wiht club option for 08

GOREDSGO32
07-31-2006, 02:31 PM
Wow forgot about Coffey too .... maybe they keep 7 guys in the pen?

thatcoolguy_22
07-31-2006, 02:59 PM
I think this trade will work in our favor for this year but, mark my words, 2 years from now people are comparing Germano for Cormier to the Smoltz for Oil Can... Germano is going to be a high quality pitcher if he is given the opportunity. He battles and I love the way he can throw the 2 different curveballs mixed with his sinker... However WK says that he scouts his own farm system more so than the rest of the league. If he says something about a player I will take his word for it. He understands the value of the players involved in this deal. Remember he started out as a pro scout...

keeganbrick
07-31-2006, 03:09 PM
I think this trade will work in our favor for this year but, mark my words, 2 years from now people are comparing Germano for Cormier to the Smoltz for Oil Can... Germano is going to be a high quality pitcher if he is given the opportunity. He battles and I love the way he can throw the 2 different curveballs mixed with his sinker... However WK says that he scouts his own farm system more so than the rest of the league. If he says something about a player I will take his word for it. He understands the value of the players involved in this deal. Remember he started out as a pro scout...
You just contradicted yourself.

redsfan30
07-31-2006, 03:58 PM
Germano is a nice prosect, but I'm not sure I'd compare him to John Smoltz quite yet....

thatcoolguy_22
07-31-2006, 06:57 PM
You just contradicted yourself.


I did nothing of the sort. I believe that Germano will eventually be a good pitcher in the majors however I also think that Krivsky is a very good judge of talent. Do I think my opinions are more correct than WK? obviously not but, I still believe that losing Germano will be considered a mistake in the future. But for this year it might work out. I hope

jimbo
07-31-2006, 06:58 PM
Germano is going to be a high quality pitcher if he is given the opportunity.

I'll take the bet that Germano will never be a high quality pitcher. He has 5th starter stuff at best. He was not the long-term solution at the end of the rotation that the Reds need.

keeganbrick
07-31-2006, 07:13 PM
I know that breaking ball was pretty impressive but just look at his AAA numbers. Germano is not going to be a top 3 starter in his career for an extended period of time. I'd be more concerned about giving up Ward than Germano.

ickey333
07-31-2006, 07:59 PM
I did nothing of the sort. I believe that Germano will eventually be a good pitcher in the majors however I also think that Krivsky is a very good judge of talent. Do I think my opinions are more correct than WK? obviously not but, I still believe that losing Germano will be considered a mistake in the future. But for this year it might work out. I hope


Mainly commenting on your observation that Krivsky is a good judge of talent, which I agree with btw, and, for better or worse, both of the trades today will be real barometers for that ability to scout players and identify talent that we've all heard so much about.

Lohse's numbers for the year obviously stink, but Krivsky should know as well as anyone else in baseball what he can bring to the table. Let's hope that it's what he's been doing for the past 10 games and not what he did earlier in the season. From reading posts on the "Farm Report" discussion board before the trade, Krivsky apparently was in Dayton for (at least) one of Zach Ward's starts earlier in the year and would have seen first-hand what sort of stuff Ward had. I realize that one game can't tell you everything about a pitcher, and that sometimes you have to give up talent to get talent, but I would imagine Krivsky would be loathe to trade away a true pitching talent (something that many of you who are far more knowledgable than I am about our farm talent saw Ward as being) for someone like Lohse who had clearly fallen out of favor in Minnesota. We shall see...I hope it works out and think that Lohse will benefit from the change of scenery.

As far as Germano, I'd be surprised if he turns into anything more than a #4 or #5 starter too...but again Krivksy and his staff had plenty of time to evaluate Germano and the fact that they're trading him away for a 39 year old makes me think that they thought little of his ceiling. I would think that Cormier provides a boost to this year's bullpen but have to wonder how much he has left (see Chris Hammond, although I realize they're very different types of pitchers), but there's nothing wrong with trading away relatively little for short-term help. Hopefully Germano was nothing more than that, but again, we shall see.

Neither trade today was all that earth shattering and overall I'm sure many of us were hoping for a blockbuster to address the starting pitching and/or shortstop deficiencies, but in their own way, both of these trades (but especially the Lohse-Ward deal) really laid it on the line as far as Krivsky's reputation as a talent evaluator. No GM is going to "win" every trade he makes, and I like the idea that Krivsky bought low on a guy like Lohse who is young enough to potentially turn it around and still have a decent future with the team, but if Lohse is closer to the pitcher he was at the beginning of the year and Ward is half the prospect that several of you think he is (but I'm guessing that Krivsky did not), then this is the very type of trade that a GM of a team like the Reds cannot afford to lose.

I'm more than willing to give Krivsky the benefit of the doubt based on the entirely unexpected success of this year's team, for which Krivsky clearly deserves a lot of credit, but as I've already said, we shall see...

(Sorry...didn't realize this post had gotten so long...another reason I don't post that much)

flyer85
08-01-2006, 09:31 AM
the G/F ratio for Cormier

2001 - 2.05
2002 - 2.63
2003 - 1.95
2004 - 1.81
2005 - 2.00
2006 - 1.36