PDA

View Full Version : Lohse a Red - from Marc's Blog



jmble
07-31-2006, 11:44 AM
The Reds also have acquired right-hander Kyle Lohse from the Twins for minor league right-hander Zach Ward

wojo1025
07-31-2006, 11:44 AM
This one could be interesting!


Still, I am holding out hope for a SS or another person who can swing the bat

wheels
07-31-2006, 11:46 AM
Another sub mediocre starter to add to the confusion.

I'm guessing Wayne's done now.

11larkin11
07-31-2006, 11:47 AM
I dont know. We NEED a SS. I like what he has done, though. Pitching wins. I dont mind ginving up a single A guy, as long as he isnt one of our top 10 prospects. Was he?

CougarQuest
07-31-2006, 11:49 AM
Oh there will be some people in here that will just explode

GriffeyFan
07-31-2006, 11:49 AM
I bet he's not done yet. I have no info to support that notion, just a hunch.

wheels
07-31-2006, 11:50 AM
Oh there will be some people in here that will just explode


:explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode:

CySeymour
07-31-2006, 11:51 AM
It seems to me Lohse is a downgrade from Germano

OldRed1966
07-31-2006, 11:51 AM
I don't like this deal at all. :bang:

redsfan30
07-31-2006, 11:51 AM
On the surface, how we lookin'?

Not good.

HumnHilghtFreel
07-31-2006, 11:52 AM
Meh... I'm not a big Lohse fan, but his ERA is a full run lower than Joe Mays' if that's saying anything:evil:

Tommyjohn25
07-31-2006, 11:52 AM
Oh there will be some people in here that will just explode

The timer on that has already expired, and before the guy has even thrown a single pitch for the Reds, go figure.

duh_vinci
07-31-2006, 11:52 AM
I sure hope he isn't done...

Sorry, but I don't see how Lohse is much better than Mays/Claussen/Germano...

Why not save what little trade bait we have and use it to *try* and snag oh, I don't know...Jason Schmidt?

This Twins love thing Krivsky has is gettin a bit tiresome.

BRM
07-31-2006, 11:52 AM
Is this the reason for the 4:30 press conference? I hope not.

wheels
07-31-2006, 11:53 AM
Yeah, Lohse is a bummer of a pitcher, considering that they have comperable options in house.

That, and he's got one of those Favre type names that totally bug the crap out of me.

Guh.

EKURed
07-31-2006, 11:54 AM
I don't like this trade...and here's why....

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/stats/player.php?id=458705

joshnky
07-31-2006, 11:54 AM
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=346798

He has been pitching in relief since June but hasn't pitched badly of late. Couls a change of leagues help him? It seems that not having to face the White Sox and Tigers would help a lot of pitchers. Ward was a long ways away from the majors. Lets give this one a chance.

Tommyjohn25
07-31-2006, 11:55 AM
This Twins love thing Krivsky has is gettin a bit tiresome.

You know what's not tiresome? The Reds being in a playoff spot as we speak, with the division well within their grasp. And you know what? Krivsky is the reason.

BRM
07-31-2006, 11:55 AM
Is Krivsky hoping for the pitching version of Brandon Phillips? A hyped prospect that never could put it together for his orignal team, changing teams and breaking out?

wheels
07-31-2006, 11:55 AM
Is this the reason for the 4:30 press conference? I hope not.

Didn't ya hear? This deal is gonna ring in a new era for Reds baseball.

You'd think they'd have scheduled a parade for the cat instead of some silly press conference.

11larkin11
07-31-2006, 11:57 AM
Lohse has a 2.84 ERA in the last 10 games. Mind you, it is out of the bullpen, but maybe hes turning it around. And remember, NL is much easier to pitch in than the AL.

joshnky
07-31-2006, 11:57 AM
I sure hope he isn't done...

Sorry, but I don't see how Lohse is much better than Mays/Claussen/Germano...

Why not save what little trade bait we have and use it to *try* and snag oh, I don't know...Jason Schmidt?

This Twins love thing Krivsky has is gettin a bit tiresome.

We weren't going to get Jason Schmidt with out hurting our offense even more. We'd overpay for a twomonth rental that would have to pitch shutouts with the little offense that would be left.

wheels
07-31-2006, 11:58 AM
The guy's got a 7.07 ERA.

Haven't we learned that it's usually not an accident to have an ERA that high?

And to give up a fairly decent prospect for him?

Holy crap, Wayne. I'm in your corner most of the time, but this trade....

It's totally unbelievable how bad it could be.

They could get burned now, and in the future on this one.

Johnny Footstool
07-31-2006, 12:00 PM
Oh there will be some people in here that will just explode

This one's more like a paper snapper compared to the Kearns/Lopez bomb.

keeganbrick
07-31-2006, 12:00 PM
I really hope this trade does not happen. I mean, we are talking about Lohse here.

duh_vinci
07-31-2006, 12:00 PM
You know what's not tiresome? The Reds being in a playoff spot as we speak, with the division well within their grasp. And you know what? Krivsky is the reason.

I am pleased as punch that the Reds are doing this well. Do I give Krivs credit? Absolutely. Do I think he is THE REASON? Absolutely not. Props to him for Arroyo, Ross, BP. Jury is out on his most recent dealings. I want them to pan out for sure. Will they? Time will tell. I am only going off what I have seen of late. Mays, Castro, now Lohse...we'll see. Everyday Eddie appears to be paying off in spades so nice pickup on that one. I am no "fantasy baseball armchair GM" but Lohse just doesn't look any better than what we have to work with already.

However, as some are pointing out, maybe Wayne isn't done yet. Maybe Lohse is heading for the pen? Maybe, just maybe, Jason Schmidt could still be a target? That would be nice... Still got 5 hours of wheeling and dealing time! :) I will say this...it is VERY nice to have a GM that makes the trade deadline something a bit more interesting. Dano was a bump on a log...

Go Reds and go Krogering. ;)

wheels
07-31-2006, 12:01 PM
We weren't going to get Jason Schmidt with out hurting our offense even more. We'd overpay for a twomonth rental that would have to pitch shutouts with the little offense that would be left.

Just because you can't do better, doesn't mean you should make a deal.

This is so remeniscent of the day Milton signed.

:barf:

MississippiRed
07-31-2006, 12:01 PM
A quick look at ESPN insider stats shows that Lohse throws his fastball about 60% of the time and opponents are hitting .329 off his fastball. His area charts show he throws a lot of pitches middle-out against both LH and RH hitters. A high percentage (12% against LH and 22% against RH) are low and away. It appears he is either having trouble throwing his slider for strikes or keeping his fastball down (or both). Krivsky may feel he would benefit from different coaching/change of leagues.

Anyone know how fast he throws his fastball? Insider didn't give me that.

Michael

flyer85
07-31-2006, 12:04 PM
Anyone know how fast he throws his fastball? Whenever I have seen him it is 90-94.

MississippiRed
07-31-2006, 12:04 PM
This site says his fastball is 93-94. Interesting reading.

Lohse from Foxsports (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player?statsId=6751)

Johnny Footstool
07-31-2006, 12:05 PM
...

Anyone know how fast he throws his fastball? Insider didn't give me that.

With a career K/9 of 5.56, I'd say not fast enough.


BTW - good use of stats.

osuceltic
07-31-2006, 12:05 PM
You know what's not tiresome? The Reds being in a playoff spot as we speak, with the division well within their grasp. And you know what? Krivsky is the reason.
Amen! I'm beginning to think I'm the only one paying attention to the standings -- and aware of the fact that Krivsky is the guy who brought Arroyo, Phillips, Ross, Hatteberg, Guardado and Bray to this team. Where would we be without those guys?

As for Lohse ... He got off to a terrible start this season, but has pitched better of late. He has a pretty good track record before this season. He's young, healthy, good arm. The change in leagues will help him. If you haven't read some of the recent pieces on the disparity between the AL and NL, you should. Some scouts are adding as much as a run and a half to pitchers switching from the NL to the AL and subtracting that for pitchers coming the other way.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the Reds have been scouting the guy pretty heavily. Remember when Wayne said the scouts were telling him Guardado still had the stuff to get people out? Looks like they were right. Regardless, I'm sure they've done a little more research than the people here. A single A pitching prospect (is there such a thing?) is a small price to pay if he can help.

Guys, we're in a pennant race. This isn't the time to get unrealistically attached to marginal prospects who are three or four years away from even being in the big league discussion. You're missing the forest because all of those pesky trees are in the way.

CincyReds2003
07-31-2006, 12:05 PM
Lohse has given up 128 HRs in 152 starts/172 games played. So from the starts alone, he is giving up .8 HRs a game. I just looked at Milton's stats and he has given up 251 HRs in 251 games...OUCH...Hopefully, Lohse doesn't approach those numbers while starting in GABP.

CougarQuest
07-31-2006, 12:08 PM
His ERA as a reliever for the last 3 years is 3.00

keeganbrick
07-31-2006, 12:09 PM
Amen! I'm beginning to think I'm the only one paying attention to the standings -- and aware of the fact that Krivsky is the guy who brought Arroyo, Phillips, Ross, Hatteberg, Guardado and Bray to this team. Where would we be without those guys?

As for Lohse ... He got off to a terrible start this season, but has pitched better of late. He has a pretty good track record before this season. He's young, healthy, good arm. The change in leagues will help him. If you haven't read some of the recent pieces on the disparity between the AL and NL, you should. Some scouts are adding as much as a run and a half to pitchers switching from the NL to the AL and subtracting that for pitchers coming the other way.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the Reds have been scouting the guy pretty heavily. Remember when Wayne said the scouts were telling him Guardado still had the stuff to get people out? Looks like they were right. Regardless, I'm sure they've done a little more research than the people here. A single A pitching prospect (is there such a thing?) is a small price to pay if he can help.

Guys, we're in a pennant race. This isn't the time to get unrealistically attached to marginal prospects who are three or four years away from even being in the big league discussion. You're missing the forest because all of those pesky trees are in the way.
I can remember a good one last year.:devil:

Always Red
07-31-2006, 12:09 PM
Well, I'm just going to trust that Krivsky and his scouts know more about baseball talent than I do.

It's hard to get excited about this, though, and on the surface, it appears that we are now replacing OB's average players with Krivsky's average players.

Here's a better question- now that Lohse and Cormier are on the team, who is gone?? Weathers? Shack? Claussen? Maybe Uncle Milty gets dealt later today?

Stay tuned, I think there's more to come!

duh_vinci
07-31-2006, 12:10 PM
If Lohse is meant to be a bullpenner, I have MUCH less of a problem with this trade. We won't know if Wayne is done until 4 hits. Perhaps he is still hunting for a solid 4/5 slot that can give us a quality start on at least a semi-regular basis.

*crosses fingers*

11larkin11
07-31-2006, 12:12 PM
I think we give Belisle the chance to start first, since Lohse has done good in long relief, as Im told. Another thing, guys remember, the AL is A LOT harder to pitch to than the NL, especially the AL Central this year.

keeganbrick
07-31-2006, 12:12 PM
If Lohse is meant to be a bullpenner, I have MUCH less of a problem with this trade. We won't know if Wayne is done until 4 hits. Perhaps he is still hunting for a solid 4/5 slot that can give us a quality start on at least a semi-regular basis.

*crosses fingers*
True, but I dont see how he can fit into the bullpen with Cormier arriving too. Unless there are more trades with our own relievers happening today as well.

MississippiRed
07-31-2006, 12:12 PM
Amen! I'm beginning to think I'm the only one paying attention to the standings -- and aware of the fact that Krivsky is the guy who brought Arroyo, Phillips, Ross, Hatteberg, Guardado and Bray to this team. Where would we be without those guys?


Good point, Celtic. I too am happy that we have something to talk about on trading deadline day, besides what prospects we can get for someone we won't be able to afford in a year or two.

About Guardado, my 13-year-old and I just laugh at these hitters who can't seem to catch up with his 87 MPH fastball. We have been posturing theories about it . . . Ben says the radar must be wrong. I wonder if they just have trouble picking it up early in his windup. Really, though, I think it is just attitude.

flyer85
07-31-2006, 12:13 PM
I think we give Belisle the chance to start firstwith his back troubles and the fact he hasn't even started a rehab, I would say belisle is out of the picture.

keeganbrick
07-31-2006, 12:13 PM
Good point, Celtic. I too am happy that we have something to talk about on trading deadline day, besides what prospects we can get for someone we won't be able to afford in a year or two.

About Guardado, my 13-year-old and I just laugh at these hitters who can't seem to catch up with his 87 MPH fastball. We have been posturing theories about it . . . Ben says the radar must be wrong. I wonder if they just have trouble picking it up early in his windup. Really, though, I think it is just attitude.
Up and away isnt too easy to hit.

Bigg Red Smokey
07-31-2006, 12:14 PM
His ERA as a reliever for the last 3 years is 3.00

Maybe that is where they will use him...

The teams that are in contention trade for big league players that they think will perform well under the pressure of a playoff race. hopefuly Krivsky has a good handle on Lohse's will. Ward could turn out to be one heck of a pitcher, but he is far enough away that it makes some sense.

STLRedsBacker
07-31-2006, 12:15 PM
I was joking with a few coworkers the other day that the Reds were going to work their way up all the washed up Twins. The joke is less funny now.

I guess this has to be it. But I'll be honest, I'll still thrilled to be in a position where I can go see the Reds in a few weeks here in St. Louis, still in a race.

MississippiRed
07-31-2006, 12:16 PM
If Lohse is meant to be a bullpenner, I have MUCH less of a problem with this trade. We won't know if Wayne is done until 4 hits. Perhaps he is still hunting for a solid 4/5 slot that can give us a quality start on at least a semi-regular basis.

We need a starter much more than BP help. (I can't believe I am saying that this year.)

duh_vinci
07-31-2006, 12:18 PM
Agreed. I truly hope Wayne is still hammering that cell phone...

knuckler
07-31-2006, 12:18 PM
Honestly, I just don't get it. It explains why Webb was being kept in Dayton though, rather than being pushed to a level where he wouldn't have flashy stats.

I'm far less than thrilled. Hopefully Krivsky and his scouts know something that isn't readily apparent.

HermW
07-31-2006, 12:29 PM
My problem with this trade has more to do with Ward than with Lohse. Ward just seemed like the kind of pitcher the Reds need to be trying to get through the system and into GABP considering his GO/FO ratio. Seems like Lohse could have been snagged for less.

I would assume that the organization feels that in the long term they will keep either Harang or Arroyo around, add Bailey at the top of the rotation, leave Ramirez in the middle of it at 3 or 4 and then fill the rest of the rotation with Claussen, with pitchers from without or ultimately from guys like Wood, Cueto and others in the system. I would like to keep Ward in that mix myself.

dunner13
07-31-2006, 12:47 PM
I think I would have rather seen the reds give up another prospect and have gotten redman. He would have been a very nice option for the rotation, if were going to waste money and prospects on lohse we might as well give a little more and get someone who has a good chance of really helping us. But I am at least glad to see that Wayne is trying to do something, you cant argue with the fact that he is at least going for it this year.

KYRed
07-31-2006, 12:50 PM
We need a starter much more than BP help. (I can't believe I am saying that this year.)

Very true. His ERA as a starter this year is 8.92 (38 R in 38 1/3 IP). Those 7 starts all came in April & May.

If he's meant for relief, I certainly like it more, and we're going to need "Hello, I am ___" nametags for a week or so down there in the bullpen so everyone can get to know each other!

LexingtonRedleg
07-31-2006, 12:51 PM
ESPN just reported it too. I guess it's official. :rolleyes:

Team Clark
07-31-2006, 12:53 PM
You know what's not tiresome? The Reds being in a playoff spot as we speak, with the division well within their grasp. And you know what? Krivsky is the reason.

Not to mention the Twins are not too bad off either. It just kills me that most people think it is so easy just to get and grab other players. Lohse is a HUGE upgrade over Mays/Claussen and Germano. Mays was a risk and that certainly imploded. Claussen has had only about a handful of really good starts in the past two years. His stuff is not that great and he throws with little or no confidence. Lohse has better "stuff" than all three and has more upside.

keeganbrick
07-31-2006, 12:55 PM
Lets all hope that Lohse just needed that change of scenery to get it going as a starter.

wheels
07-31-2006, 12:55 PM
Not to mention the Twins are not too bad off either. It just kills me that most people think it is so easy just to get and grab other players. Lohse is a HUGE upgrade over Mays/Claussen and Germano. Mays was a risk and that certainly imploded. Claussen has had only about a handful of really good starts in the past two years. His stuff is not that great and he throws with little or no confidence. Lohse has better "stuff" than all three and has more upside.

I also heard that he's got a nasty right hook.

Just ask Ron Gardenhire's office door.

You talk about attitude, and work ethic quite often, yet you can get behind a guy like Lohse.

You're confusing me, man.:p:

91OSUAlum
07-31-2006, 12:57 PM
So you think folks are going to trade a pitcher for free? Seems to me, at least we are taking our shot. For the person that stated we should go after Schmidt, please. It was going to take more than Ward to get him. They are looking at Lasting Milledge and Mike Pelfrey talent for this two month rental. At least Lohse used to be good. Only 27 years old

Team Clark
07-31-2006, 12:59 PM
I also heard that he's got a nasty right hook.

Just ask Ron Gardenhire's office door.

You talk about attitude, and work ethic quite often, yet you can get behind a guy like Lohse.

You're confusing me, man.:p:

I remember the incident. How that relates to work ethic I have no idea! I want a pitcher who's pissed he came out of a game early. As I remember Gardenhire settled it pretty well. If he were berating his teammates, chronically late or showing up the organiztion like it was for fun I would in no way get behind a guy like that. Your comments in no way shape or form resemble any of this.

wheels
07-31-2006, 12:59 PM
So you think folks are going to trade a pitcher for free? Seems to me, at least we are taking our shot. For the person that stated we should go after Schmidt, please. It was going to take more than Ward to get him. They are looking at Lasting Milledge and Mike Pelfrey talent for this two month rental. At least Lohse used to be good. Only 27 years old

A 4.88 career ERA isn't worth trading away Zach Ward.

It's like they just got Ramon Ortiz, but for a better prospect than Moseley.

Team Clark
07-31-2006, 01:00 PM
A 4.88 career ERA isn't worth trading away Zach Ward.

It's like they just got Ramon Ortiz, but for a better prospect than Moseley.

And I do agree with that. I'm a big fan of Ward. HE reminded me of Derek Lowe in a lot of ways which is the prototypical type pitcher for GABP.

wheels
07-31-2006, 01:01 PM
I remember the incident. How that relates to work ethic I have no idea! I want a pitcher who's pisse dhe came out of a game. As I remember Gardenhire settled it pretty well. If he were berating his teammates, not showing up consistently or showing up the organiztion like it was for fun I would in no way get behind a guy like that. Your comments in no way shape or form resemble any of this.

From all accounts, the guy's been a prima donna with a horrible attitude for most of his time in Minnesota, and Twins fans are glad to see him go.

I like Wayne as much as the next guy, but I won't defend every trade he makes.

Team Clark
07-31-2006, 01:05 PM
From all accounts, the guy's been a prima donna with a horrible attitude for most of his time in Minnesota, and Twins fans are glad to see him go.

I like Wayne as much as the next guy, but I won't defend every trade he makes.

I see your point. I have yet to hear that about Lohse but then again I do not have a bible on each player. I would be shocked if Wayne were to acquire a guy with those type of issues AND those kind of numbers.

NastyBoy
07-31-2006, 01:13 PM
I think Lohse will suck less than Mays as the number 5 starter.

wheels
07-31-2006, 01:15 PM
I see your point. I have yet to hear that about Lohse but then again I do not have a bible on each player. I would be shocked if Wayne were to acquire a guy with those type of issues AND those kind of numbers.

Well, you'd think Wayne would know about his personality, and if he does, and all of those stories are true, that means he thinks his performance belies all of that stuff.

That's the scary part to me.

Then again, all of those stories may not be true....But we've still got that 7.07
ERA to contend with, and that's Dave Williams territory.

ThornWithin81
07-31-2006, 01:18 PM
I think Lohse will suck less than Mays as the number 5 starter.

If you look at the Reds' official site, the heading is:

"Reds reinforce 'pen with pair of arms".

Loshe looks to be more bullpen help. Not the fifth starter. I don't think we're done.

STLRedsBacker
07-31-2006, 01:22 PM
I'm hoping you're right, that we can still go get a starter arm. But at this point, I worry about what they'll give up.

NJReds
07-31-2006, 01:23 PM
I think Lohse will suck less than Mays as the number 5 starter.


http://www.sunfriendlyproducts.com/cart/thumbs/pitching_machine_thumb.jpg

This would be better than Mays as a #5 starter.

wheels
07-31-2006, 01:24 PM
If you look at the Reds' official site, the heading is:

"Reds reinforce 'pen with pair of arms".

Loshe looks to be more bullpen help. Not the fifth starter. I don't think we're done.

That scenario would be fine with me.

It still doesn't explain giving away Ward.

That's what Wayne's just done. He just gave Ward to the Twins.

Dunner44
07-31-2006, 01:29 PM
Does this mean Weathers, Coffey, etc. can be traded, possibly for a SS? Could we still swing Coffey and LaRue for Texas's young 2B, Kinsler?

Cedric
07-31-2006, 01:33 PM
That scenario would be fine with me.

It still doesn't explain giving away Ward.

That's what Wayne's just done. He just gave Ward to the Twins.

I know some here are fans of Ward, I'm not.

He's 23 and stuck in low A ball because his velocity is down and he doesn't have much confidence in his pitches. He nibbles a lot and he gets away with it because of the lack of patience at that level.

I watched him pitch in person and was completely non impressed.

duh_vinci
07-31-2006, 01:56 PM
For the person that stated we should go after Schmidt, please. It was going to take more than Ward to get him. They are looking at Lasting Milledge and Mike Pelfrey talent for this two month rental. At least Lohse used to be good. Only 27 years old

Show me where Lohse used to be good. Please do.

He has always had a LOT of potential and at one point was hyped a bit, but I have never seen "good."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4789

Nuff said.

I never said we could get Jason Schmidt for Zach Ward. I posited the possibility of using our meager farm system as a means to try for Jason Schmidt. And for all I know, Wayne might have tried that already. We may never know.

*shrug*

I hope this works out, I still am thankful that Wayne will at least TRY and improve the team every opportunity he gets. Unlike that lump we had as a GM last year...

:)

Petitt33
07-31-2006, 02:15 PM
From Marc's blog

Lohse apparently will be in bullpen

Just got off a conference call with Kyle Lohse. I asked if Wayne had indicated to him whether he would be moving into the rotation here or staying in the bullpen. His response:

"As of right now, I believe I知 going to stay in the role that I知 at. Ultimately, it痴 up to him. I think they致e got some good guys there, and we値l play it by ear. I知 ready to do whatever it takes to help the team out."

11larkin11
07-31-2006, 02:19 PM
Lohse apparently will be in bullpen

Just got off a conference call with Kyle Lohse. I asked if Wayne had indicated to him whether he would be moving into the rotation here or staying in the bullpen. His response:

"As of right now, I believe I知 going to stay in the role that I知 at. Ultimately, it痴 up to him. I think they致e got some good guys there, and we値l play it by ear. I知 ready to do whatever it takes to help the team out."

From Marc Lancaster

registerthis
07-31-2006, 02:20 PM
http://www.sunfriendlyproducts.com/cart/thumbs/pitching_machine_thumb.jpg

This would be better than Mays as a #5 starter.

You stealing my ideas, NJReds? ;)

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1089245#post1089245

keeganbrick
07-31-2006, 02:22 PM
So this should open the door for another trade today with Lohse in the bullpen.

duh_vinci
07-31-2006, 02:23 PM
*prays for the baseball gods to bless us with a Jason Schmidt deal*

11larkin11
07-31-2006, 02:23 PM
Hopefully. CALL WAYNE, MARC, NOT KYLE! GET US SOME INSIDE INFO!

STLRedsBacker
07-31-2006, 02:30 PM
ROB NEYER
If I were Terry Ryan I probably would make sure that my scouting director was the happiest scouting director around. And I would thank my lucky stars that Kyle Lohse won't be around to blow any more games.

Razor Shines
07-31-2006, 03:30 PM
I think they are counting on Clausen to come back and be our fifth starter. I have no evidence of this, I just get the feeling they think he will come back strong. I think he'll be what he was before going on the DL, not good.

corkedbat
07-31-2006, 03:41 PM
Jason Schmidt for David Weathers. We get a 1/2 year rental and they get all that payflex when Weathers retires. :evil:

kaldaniels
07-31-2006, 03:51 PM
Lancaster said he still thinks we'll get a SP today on his blog.

cincrazy
07-31-2006, 05:28 PM
Hopefully Lohse can be a Jason Marquis type pitcher for us. A pitcher we didn't give up much to get, who just needed a change of scenery. Marquis was an absoulute bust in Atlanta under Mazzone and Cox, but since the move to St. Louis has been well above average as a major league starter. Hopefully we can get the same out of Lohse.

Team Clark
07-31-2006, 07:11 PM
Lancaster said he still thinks we'll get a SP today on his blog.

I think so too. There are A LOT of moveable players on Disabled Lists right now. Could be a very interesting secondary market.

OnBaseMachine
07-31-2006, 07:12 PM
Hopefully Lohse can be a Jason Marquis type pitcher for us. A pitcher we didn't give up much to get, who just needed a change of scenery. Marquis was an absoulute bust in Atlanta under Mazzone and Cox, but since the move to St. Louis has been well above average as a major league starter. Hopefully we can get the same out of Lohse.

Marquis has an ERA over 5.60. Hardly above average.

red-in-la
07-31-2006, 07:16 PM
I choose to be optimistic about these moves. In 1999, the Reds got a ML experience pitcher who was something like 5-10 with a 5 plus era.

The guy went 6-2 for the Reds down the stretch....

SteelSD
07-31-2006, 07:23 PM
I choose to be optimistic about these moves. In 1999, the Reds got a ML experience pitcher who was something like 5-10 with a 5 plus era.

The guy went 6-2 for the Reds down the stretch....

Juan Guzman posted a 4.18 ERA for the Orioles versus the AL average of 4.82.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
07-31-2006, 07:26 PM
Marquis has an ERA over 5.60. Hardly above average.
W L ERA
2004 St. Louis Cardinals 15 7 3.71
2005 St. Louis Cardinals 13 14 4.13

check out

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/historical/player_stats.jsp?c_id=mlb&baseballScope=NL&subScope=teamCode&teamPosCode=all&statType=2&sitSplit=&venueID=&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2005&timeSubFrame=2004&Submit=Submit

looks pretty above average to me.

OnBaseMachine
07-31-2006, 07:29 PM
W L ERA
2004 St. Louis Cardinals 15 7 3.71
2005 St. Louis Cardinals 13 14 4.13

check out

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/historical/player_stats.jsp?c_id=mlb&baseballScope=NL&subScope=teamCode&teamPosCode=all&statType=2&sitSplit=&venueID=&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2005&timeSubFrame=2004&Submit=Submit

looks pretty above average to me.

His 5.67 ERA this year is above average?

Redmachine2003
07-31-2006, 07:51 PM
Well it looks like Wayne has pretty much clean out Jimbo's and DanO's players. This team is Truely Waynes team and and noone can say they are winning with the players they brought in.

snowstorm
07-31-2006, 07:54 PM
Just got home from work, so now I can finally comment about the trade. :D

I'm willing to give Lohse a chance, but I'm not really sure what the point of this trade was. His career numbers are pretty bad (WHIP of 1.45, gives up far too many hits) and he doesn't seem to be any better than Joe Mays. Unless I'm missing something, I'm not sure what Krivsky is thinking with this one.

ChatterRed
07-31-2006, 07:54 PM
I don't like giving up Ward at all. How many times are Reds GM's going to trade away all our good pitching prospects?

Ltlabner
07-31-2006, 08:02 PM
Loshe could be effective for us if used well. That is my big gripe with this trade. Narron has shown that he doesn't have "the touch" for using the bullpen well. It was masked earlier because they sucked so bad you couldn't tell.

Now that it's improved it's clear that Narron doesn't have a good touch for when to pull the starter, who to bring in, matchups, who's not cutting it, etc.

I'll give Loshe a chance becuase he's one of those "it might work out, might not" sorta deals IMO.

red-in-la
07-31-2006, 08:20 PM
Juan Guzman posted a 4.18 ERA for the Orioles versus the AL average of 4.82.

Sorry for the miss......I couldn't find his listed just for the Orioles.....I was flying on memory....

In any case, the one he posted for the Reds was about half his previous one.....as I recall, maybe you could confirm that for me.....anyway, in 200 innings he ended up with a 3.47 era....so it must be pretty low to bring it down half a run.

My only point was that the guy is 27, and a temporary change of leagues, and pitching coaches my help him.

realistic
07-31-2006, 08:30 PM
I don't like giving up Ward at all. How many times are Reds GM's going to trade away all our good pitching prospects?

How many of those prospects ever became anything more than a prospect?

Nothing against Ward, but the true odds of him spending as much time in the majors as Lohse already has is low. MLB isnt like football or basketball where you draft someone and grow them into a spot on the team. Look at the Reds 24 man roster, how many were original Reds draftees? The economics and labor union have ruined minor league development. Unless its a Homer Bailey type player its almost always wise to trade a minor league player for a major league player, especially in a playoff race.

Id rather have had a starter, but this improves the team. Im satisfiied.

SteelSD
07-31-2006, 08:33 PM
Krivsky on ESPNEWS right now.

*Bullpen needed to be addressed.
*All the deals put together added a lot to the pen with a bunch of guys with plus fastballs and plus stuff.
*Lohse is a consistent, durable starter (yes, Krivsky said that). His numbers are skewed by a bunch of bad starts (seriously, Krivsky said this too). He gives flexibility and is a versatile arm.
*One key for club to make playoffs: Starting pitching has got Reds to this point. Comfortable with bullpen closing out games now.

Caveat Emperor
07-31-2006, 08:49 PM
Krivsky on ESPNEWS right now.

*Bullpen needed to be addressed.
*All the deals put together added a lot to the pen with a bunch of guys with plus fastballs and plus stuff.
*Lohse is a consistent, durable starter (yes, Krivsky said that). His numbers are skewed by a bunch of bad starts (seriously, Krivsky said this too). He gives flexibility and is a versatile arm.
*One key for club to make playoffs: Starting pitching has got Reds to this point. Comfortable with bullpen closing out games now.

Krivsky on w/ Furman:
- Kyle Lohse is a "flexible arm" that he likes. He's familiar with Kyle from his time with the twins and personally scouted Rheal.
- Rheal was a 10-5 player and the condition of his trade was that he get a guaranteed deal for '07. So they got him for '07 w/ a club option for '08. Krivsky claims it was a risky move, but it seems like a good risk.
- Krivsky feels Rheal can get both righties and lefties out, says that he'll likely be used for full innings out of the bullpen.
- Lohse got off to a rocky start -- but feels that he is a durable starter and has great stuff out of the bullpen.
- Lohse will start in the bullpen, but it'll be Jerry's call as to whether or not he starts.

Nothing really new.

Redus
08-01-2006, 12:50 AM
Lohse is the guy I wanted. Feel free to give me a raspberry if he sucks. I think he's gonna pull an Eddie G.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
08-01-2006, 01:49 PM
I don't like giving up Ward at all. How many times are Reds GM's going to trade away all our good pitching prospects?

We traded an unscratched lotery ticket for a big league pitcher.