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View Full Version : Deadline is done...sooo who are we playing at...



KalDanielsfan
07-31-2006, 04:56 PM
Shortstop???

Cmon Reds fans, are you content with this infield situation? or will the KRivsky get someone off waivers?

Im disappointed--very disappointed in the deals that ended up being made. why do we need 3 left handed relievers in the same pen? iwth two of them not even throwing over 87 mph

KoryMac5
07-31-2006, 08:05 PM
Krivs has taken a glaring weakness on this team and made it into a strength. The bullpen was the number one trouble spot on this team. Without the recent trades the Reds would be below 500 and sellers in the trade market. Picking up Lohse and Cormier only help strengthen this team. As for SS I feel he is prepared to go the rest of the year with Clayton in that position with Castro being the backup. If Clayton is the biggest hole on this team now than I feel pretty good about are chances. Good to see the Reds making moves instead of saying wait until next yr.

keeganbrick
07-31-2006, 08:10 PM
Krivs has taken a glaring weakness on this team and made it into a strength. The bullpen was the number one trouble spot on this team. Without the recent trades the Reds would be below 500 and sellers in the trade market. Picking up Lohse and Cormier only help strengthen this team. As for SS I feel he is prepared to go the rest of the year with Clayton in that position with Castro being the backup. If Clayton is the biggest hole on this team now than I feel pretty good about are chances. Good to see the Reds making moves instead of saying wait until next yr.
But hes clearly not the biggest hole on this team, our #3,4,5 starters are. It just scares me if we make the playoffs and have to run Rameriz, Milton, or Claussen out there unless one of them improves drastically. Hopefully EZ starts giving up 2 runs a start instead of his normal 3-4 runs.

reds44
07-31-2006, 08:12 PM
But hes clearly not the biggest hole on this team, our #3,4,5 starters are. It just scares me if we make the playoffs and have to run Rameriz, Milton, or Claussen out there unless one of them improves drastically. Hopefully EZ starts giving up 2 runs a start instead of his normal 3-4 runs.
Elizardo has a very respectable 4.22 ERA, especially for a rookie. He is not the problem.

As for who plays SS, Rich or Phillips. Whoever doesn't play SS plays 2B with Edwin at 3rd.

keeganbrick
07-31-2006, 08:16 PM
Elizardo has a very respectable 4.22 ERA, especially for a rookie. He is not the problem.

As for who plays SS, Rich or Phillips. Whoever doesn't play SS plays 2B with Edwin at 3rd.
You know they are never going to allow that though. I bet they wont even run Rich and EE out there in the same game at SS and 3rd unless Castro or Clayton is injured. I would really like them to try it because I dont think Aurilia's D is that far behind Claytons' this year and his offense should more than make up for it.

red-in-la
07-31-2006, 08:26 PM
What's the big problem with SS? WK told away maybe 25 or so errors at SS and replaced them with two guys, Clayton and Castro who won't hit much, but also won't throw the ball into the stands very much.

Next year, Phillips is my guess to move to SS with Olemdo or Bergolla being given a chance to win the 2B job full time.

Lopez was streaky as hexx on offense and most of the time he didn't bother to run hard.....so as to at least put some pressure on a defense. His stolen bases will be a bit made up for by the added starts for Freel and Denorfia.

Lopez' offense will be missed, sure.....but WK dealt from a position of excess to greatly improve a huge weakness.

keeganbrick
07-31-2006, 08:29 PM
Because Clayton looks to have mental breakdowns as much as Felipe did if you count his baserunning miscues so far. I really dont know why Castro doesnt start over Clayton if they arent even going to give thought to moving Rich there. His defense is much better and their hitting is about the same. Only thing Castro lacks is Clayton's speed, big deal.

reds44
07-31-2006, 08:31 PM
What's the big problem with SS? WK told away maybe 25 or so errors at SS and replaced them with two guys, Clayton and Castro who won't hit much, but also won't throw the ball into the stands very much.

Royce Clayton is not a good defender.

He is an average one, and at that putrid offense and it makes him a bad player.

SeeinRed
07-31-2006, 08:35 PM
Elizardo has a very respectable 4.22 ERA, especially for a rookie. He is not the problem.

As for who plays SS, Rich or Phillips. Whoever doesn't play SS plays 2B with Edwin at 3rd.


Phillips is the only one of the two I would even consider putting at SS for on even a semi-regular basis. RA just isn't SS material anymore. Honestly, I think he is very valuable in the role he is in right now. Rich has shown to be very good at 1B, 2B, and 3B. If that means EE gets less playing time, then thats fine with me. EE will get his chance, but to win a position back from another player when you have clearly fell out of favor, you have to do exactly what he is doing. Work hard, take your time on the bench, and fill the role you are asked to. His defense is clearly what the Reds are worried about. As long as he keeps working on it, his hard work will pay off.

When your chance arises, you have to outperform the player ahead of you. EE hasn't outperformed RA noticably enough to win the starting role at 3B (especially on defense). Mostly because RA has had a great year. IMO this situation could light a fire under EE. Give it some time and see how it works out. As long as the Reds are winning, and RA is producing, you can't really expect a change, unless EE wakes up with the defensive abilities the Reds are waiting for.

Marc D
07-31-2006, 08:36 PM
What's the big problem with SS? WK told away maybe 25 or so errors at SS and replaced them with two guys, Clayton and Castro who won't hit much, but also won't throw the ball into the stands very much.


Except for the nagging litte fact Clayton has had 3 errors, which leads the team, since the trade. Also has had at least one if not two absolute bonehaed base running errors. He makes up for that by, as you say, not hitting much.

Forget his reputation, he's a blackhole both offensively and defensively.

keeganbrick
07-31-2006, 08:40 PM
EE's defense has continued to get better throughout the year now. His D won us the game the first game of the Brewers series then he gets benched for the other 2. If he doesnt play as much as Rich then so be it but he gets sat way too often right now. You have to give the kid more playing time whether Rich is hot or not. EE can put up just as good as numbers or better than Rich on a consistant basis.

SeeinRed
07-31-2006, 08:53 PM
EE's defense has continued to get better throughout the year now. His D won us the game the first game of the Brewers series then he gets benched for the other 2.

One great defensive play doesn't make a good defender. His inconsistency is what is so troubling. He can make a great play from time to time, but he will also mess up the easy play from time to time also. He's getting better, but still isn't as good defensively as the Reds would like.


If he doesnt play as much as Rich then so be it but he gets sat way too often right now. You have to give the kid more playing time whether Rich is hot or not. EE can put up just as good as numbers or better than Rich on a consistant basis.

He hasn't proven that yet. Granted he hasn't had enough playing time, but the argument that a player can't be judge this early in a career goes for a player who is playing well also. Some players never learn to adjust. We'll have to wait and see. Everyone is stuck on his offensive numbers, but he isn't a complete player yet. The Reds want EE the complete player, no the onesided offensive player. Agree with it or not, EE won't win the position back untill he has shown that he can be consistent on the defensive side.

keeganbrick
07-31-2006, 08:58 PM
Look at his errors from game to game periods, they have only dropped. I think he has shown better consistancy on the defensive side as of late.

On a side note, did anyone see CB blow that strike 3 call on WMP. Next pitch he hits a triple thats plates 2 runs.

reds44
07-31-2006, 09:00 PM
One great defensive play doesn't make a good defender. His inconsistency is what is so troubling. He can make a great play from time to time, but he will also mess up the easy play from time to time also. He's getting better, but still isn't as good defensively as the Reds would like.

Edwin has made 0 errors since the ASG.

That isn't improving?

Actually I think it would be flawless.

KoryMac5
07-31-2006, 09:15 PM
The bullpen we had before the trades would have cost us more games than Clayton or Castro at SS. The NL is weak enough this year that the Reds can survive with Clayton and Castro at SS.

SeeinRed
07-31-2006, 09:15 PM
Edwin has made 0 errors since the ASG.

That isn't improving?

Actually I think it would be flawless.

Did I say he wasn't improving? I don't understand your argument. Because If thats your argument, I did in fact say he is getting better in my post. Reguardless, He hasn't played in a whole lot of games since the ASG. Thats a really small sample size.

Trace's Daddy
07-31-2006, 10:47 PM
Are there any good free agent shortstops after this season?

Far East
08-01-2006, 12:17 AM
This has been said before, but to put Clayton on the bench and get a better hitter into the lineup, how about;:

C - ROSS
1B - HATTEBERG
2B - FREEL
SS - PHILLIPS
3B - AURILIA
LF - DUNN
CF - GRIFFEY
RF -
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RF- ENCARNACION

Sure this ideally is a spring training move, but it's not just switching guys around for no reason at all.

A. Phillips' SS defense probably is an upgrade over Clayton's.
B. Freel's 2B defense probably is a slight upgrade to that of EE's at 3B.
C. EE's foot speed and athleticism probably allows him to be at least as serviceable an outfielder (I know he has not played there) as Dunn and adds RH punch to the lineup.
D. It permits EE, RA, and the Hat to all get equal playing time.

Net result: OF defense gets weaker; IF defense remains about the same; offense returns to approximately what it was before it lost Kearns and Lopez.

keeganbrick
08-01-2006, 12:22 AM
This has been said before, but to put Clayton on the bench and get a better hitter into the lineup, how about;:

C - ROSS
1B - HATTEBERG
2B - FREEL
SS - PHILLIPS
3B - AURILIA
LF - DUNN
CF - GRIFFEY
RF -
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RF- ENCARNACION

Sure this ideally is a spring training move, but it's not just switching guys around for no reason at all.

A. Phillips' SS defense probably is an upgrade over Clayton's.
B. Freel's 2B defense probably is a slight upgrade to that of EE's at 3B.
C. EE's foot speed and athleticism probably allows him to be at least as serviceable an outfielder (I know he has not played there) as Dunn and adds RH punch to the lineup.
D. It permits EE, RA, and the Hat to all get equal playing time.

Net result: OF defense gets weaker; IF defense remains about the same; offense returns to approximately what it was before it lost Kearns and Lopez.
Actually its 2 spring training moves. Its totally unrealistic and would never happen mid season especially when we are leading the wildcard.

Unassisted
08-01-2006, 12:35 AM
The SS position will not cost this team as many runs as the April-May bullpen would have. If Narron's plan is to start Clayton most games and let Castro spell him as a late inning defensive replacement, it'll get the job done well enough to suit me.

I wasn't expecting much offense out of that position when Lopez was the incumbent and I don't expect much now. Any offense that the Reds do get at SS is gravy, as far as I'm concerned.

Rob Dicken
08-01-2006, 12:49 AM
But hes clearly not the biggest hole on this team, our #3,4,5 starters are. It just scares me if we make the playoffs and have to run Rameriz, Milton, or Claussen out there unless one of them improves drastically. Hopefully EZ starts giving up 2 runs a start instead of his normal 3-4 runs.

What's wrong with giving up 3-4 runs a game? That's actually really good. Any team that wins by just getting 3-4 runs a game, has won it because of good pitching, not hitting.

EZ has been really good this year. He usually has one bad inning a game (4 or 5 runs sometimes), and sails through the rest of the innings. He usually doesn't have much run support either....

KalDanielsfan
08-01-2006, 03:20 AM
how about we move Richie A to 1b, and let Hatteburg catch

u do realize he wasnt a bad catching prospect coming up with the Red Sox the post Tony Pena years.

wonder if he could still sit behind the plate?

keeganbrick
08-01-2006, 06:20 AM
What's wrong with giving up 3-4 runs a game? That's actually really good. Any team that wins by just getting 3-4 runs a game, has won it because of good pitching, not hitting.

EZ has been really good this year. He usually has one bad inning a game (4 or 5 runs sometimes), and sails through the rest of the innings. He usually doesn't have much run support either....
I wasnt really saying EZ was the problem. I was focusing more on the #4 and 5 starters but hopefully EZ keeps pitching like he did in Houston. I hope he doesnt get spooked if we make the playoffs and he pitches though.

redsmetz
08-01-2006, 07:01 AM
Except for the nagging litte fact Clayton has had 3 errors, which leads the team, since the trade. Also has had at least one if not two absolute bonehaed base running errors. He makes up for that by, as you say, not hitting much.

Forget his reputation, he's a blackhole both offensively and defensively.

In fairness to Clayton, one of those errors was that one charged to him on the ball to Phillips that everyone said was Phillips' error, not Clayton - including Phillips himself.

I think everyone needs to get over the huge hang-up with Clayton. He's clearly just here for the remainder of the year and was an apparent throw in on the trade. We can make do with him and Castro out there for this year.

justincredible
08-01-2006, 11:33 AM
how about we move Richie A to 1b, and let Hatteburg catch

u do realize he wasnt a bad catching prospect coming up with the Red Sox the post Tony Pena years.

wonder if he could still sit behind the plate?

We already have 3 catchers, why in the world would we put Hatte back there?

MaineRed
08-01-2006, 01:00 PM
I think everyone needs to get over the huge hang-up with Clayton. He's clearly just here for the remainder of the year and was an apparent throw in on the trade. We can make do with him and Castro out there for this year.

I agree. I never liked Clayton and still really don't but its not like the club is building around him. Lopez was no world beater in the field, Clayton is not a downgrade that is for sure.

Everyone says he can't hit but he has a .270ish average and he has had some big hits for the Reds already. I can deal with him for the rest of this year and understand not wanting to go shifting others around in mid season.

Lets just hope that Clayton can be of some help and see what happens. Aurillia is not going to short and neither is BP so there is no sense worrying about it.

If it made as much sense to do either as some claim it does, you'd think Narron, WK and crew would think of it.

flyer85
08-01-2006, 01:03 PM
Edwin has made 0 errors since the ASG.
Quite unlike some guy who "makes the routine play".