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View Full Version : Royce Clayton is disappointing, to say the least



cincrazy
08-01-2006, 10:19 PM
Royce Clayton is making air-headed plays at a pace surpassing that of one Felipe Lopez. Juan Castro is incapable of hitting, but at least the guy can play sterling defense. Not only is Clayton not making the spectacular play, he's not even making the routine play. Disappointing to say the least.

ThornWithin81
08-01-2006, 10:21 PM
If you're going to hold that throw against Clayton, which was a succesful throw with a bad call (I know it was a bad throw, but it got the job done, the Umpire simply missed the call), you best be throwing Ryan Freel underneath the bus for making a crucial error that resulted in 5 runs in the inning.

If he catches the ball, its runners on first and second with two outs. A groundball to Clayton would have resulted in a step on the bag end to the inning.

Fans are starting to unload on Clayton. Something tells me they won't boo Freel for that play though.

redbuck
08-01-2006, 10:21 PM
Sorry for the french, but he is a ***. Always bails on double plays (when there is a runner anywhere near him) and throws high. Hatteberg still came down before the runner got there, but the point is you don't put the umpire in a position to make a bang-bang call on what should be a ROUTINE double play. Clayton is beyond awful. Clearly my least favorite player on the team. OK, maybe excluding LaRue.

KalDanielsfan
08-01-2006, 10:22 PM
our infield defense is terrible outside of Phillips. with our rotation not being top shelf, and opposing teams putting ALOT of balls in play (we are near the bottom in strikeouts/9ip) we need the best defense we can put out there.

i am fearing the worst with these trades sorry. what good is a bullpen if we are already down 9-2 by the 6th inning?

ThornWithin81
08-01-2006, 10:23 PM
our infield defense is terrible outside of Phillips. with our rotation not being top shelf, and opposing teams putting ALOT of balls in play (we are near the bottom in strikeouts/9ip) we need the best defense we can put out there.

i am fearing the worst with these trades sorry. what good is a bullpen if we are already down 9-2 by the 6th inning?

Aurillia at third is terrible?

Hatte at first is terrible?

This is news to me.

redbuck
08-01-2006, 10:25 PM
yep, it just seems to be the SS position. except the (seemingly) rare days when EE is in the lineup.

cincrazy
08-01-2006, 10:28 PM
Freel's play was awful, no question. But that's not a pattern for Freel. And Clayton does indeed bail out any time a runner gets close to him. He plays tentative. I don't know if it's the pressure of coming to a pennant race and knowing he's being counted on for good defense or what, but something has to change with him.

ThornWithin81
08-01-2006, 10:30 PM
Right now we're getting lucky. St. Louis is on its way to a five game losing streak, and the D-Backs are down big early.

However, that's not going to last.

HumnHilghtFreel
08-01-2006, 10:35 PM
Right now we're getting lucky. St. Louis is on its way to a five game losing streak, and the D-Backs are down big early.

However, that's not going to last.

I don't know how much luck it is, I'd consider us to be lucky if all that happened AND we were able to capitalize by getting some wins when the other teams are losing.

ThornWithin81
08-01-2006, 10:40 PM
I don't know how much luck it is, I'd consider us to be lucky if all that happened AND we were able to capitalize by getting some wins when the other teams are losing.

Well, we're lucky to be holding steady in both races, for the moment.

If the Cardinals weren't a mess against the Cubs, we'd be miles out in the Central right now. So I consider us lucky.

cincrazy
08-01-2006, 10:44 PM
Every time the Cardinals hit a swoon, we do too. It's getting frustrating. It's RIGHT THERE for this team, all they have to do is grab it. But every time they get close to grabbing it, one or two stupid plays leads to one big inning. That's really what's plagued this team lately, are the big innings, especially in Arroyo's case. And plays like Freel and Clayton made this inning are what lead to those, unfortunately.

HumnHilghtFreel
08-01-2006, 10:46 PM
Well, we're lucky to be holding steady in both races, for the moment.

If the Cardinals weren't a mess against the Cubs, we'd be miles out in the Central right now. So I consider us lucky.

Don't get me wrong, I know what you mean, but I think a little bit of us taking advantage of it is needed. Please don't mind the rants of a frustrated man lol:)

keeganbrick
08-01-2006, 10:48 PM
Catro should be the everyday starter, no questions asked. Castro is hitting .306 since coming to the Reds and Clayton is hitting .261, so I dont even wanna hear that Castro cant hit. Will Castro hit .300 from here on out? No, but the fact of the matter is he will hit better than Clayton and Narron is pissing me off more and more by allowing Clayton to take the field every day.

And whoever said Clayton will be rewarded for his plays tonight by hitting leadoff tomorrow is probably right.

OldRedBuck
08-01-2006, 10:49 PM
Sorry for the french, but he is a ***. Always bails on double plays (when there is a runner anywhere near him) and throws high. H

What part of the 6-3 DP the other nite did you miss? The one where Clayton went to his knees, got up and completed the play? Oh yeah, that was in a one run game..and was the final play of the game...he bailed EveryDay Eddie out there...


This board is horrible with posters who dont know jack...I think fantasy baseball has ruined our youth...

cincrazy
08-01-2006, 10:49 PM
Well, Castro has hit well since coming back to us, but that's a very small sample. Clayton will probably hit for a higher average than Castro over the course of a season, but that's insignificant to me right now. With Ross in the lineup, shortstop would be the only easy out in our lineup, so I'm fine with that. As long as the defense is there.

keeganbrick
08-01-2006, 10:50 PM
What part of the 6-3 DP the other nite did you miss? The one where Clayton went to his knees, got up and completed the play? Oh yeah, that was in a one run game..and was the final play of the game...he bailed EveryDay Eddie out there...


This board is horrible with posters who dont know jack...I think fantasy baseball has ruined our youth...
Clayon made that EASY DP ball almost turn into only getting 1 out.

cincrazy
08-01-2006, 10:51 PM
The bad plays have far outnumbered the good so far for Clayton. In his prime, the guy was one hell of a defender. But his prime is light years away at this point.

Tom Servo
08-01-2006, 10:53 PM
I've been wanting Castro as the starting SS since we traded FeLo. Atleast you know what you're going to get, great D, little offense, and even a homer now and than if the pitcher lays it in just right.

ThornWithin81
08-01-2006, 10:54 PM
I've been wanting Castro as the starting SS since we traded FeLo. Atleast you know what you're going to get, great D, little offense, and even a homer now and than if the pitcher lays it in just right.

I love Castro, and I can't believe he's not starting at Short over Clayton.

Castro is a great defensive shortstop.

cincrazy
08-01-2006, 10:57 PM
At this rate, Royce Clayton is making me miss Gookie Dawkins. Actually, that's not fair to Clayton. I miss Gookie period, just because of his name. When D.T. Cromer briefly played first base for us, and Gookie and Pokey manned the middle, those were the best. "Gookie to Pokey to D.T.!" Never mind, I don't miss that. Those were some AWFUL injury decimated ballclubs, haha.

redbuck
08-01-2006, 10:59 PM
What part of the 6-3 DP the other nite did you miss? The one where Clayton went to his knees, got up and completed the play? Oh yeah, that was in a one run game..and was the final play of the game...he bailed EveryDay Eddie out there...


This board is horrible with posters who dont know jack...I think fantasy baseball has ruined our youth...

Incorrect. Try again. If you think Clayton is a good defensive SS, look in the mirror to find the baseball novice.

cincrazy
08-01-2006, 11:04 PM
Well, Clayton can't turn DP's all that well, but he can hit into them quite well!! Two more months of Clayton, two more months of Clayton, Two more months of Clayton...

cjs07484
08-01-2006, 11:05 PM
Clayton is terrible with the bat.. just terrible

ThornWithin81
08-01-2006, 11:11 PM
Well, Clayton can't turn DP's all that well, but he can hit into them quite well!! Two more months of Clayton, two more months of Clayton, Two more months of Clayton...

He turned one perfectly well in the ninth.

Not that it mattered.

reds44
08-01-2006, 11:17 PM
Clayton is terrible with the bat.. just terrible
And with the glove.

CincyFalcon
08-01-2006, 11:22 PM
Why not Castro, if pitching and defense win games, I would rather have Castro making plays instead of Clayton missing them. Besides the double plays he has a hard time turning (probably because of no arm strength,) he has no range on what look like routine ground balls.

Castro also has a little pop in his bat, not the big zero homeruns like Clayton.

Matt700wlw
08-01-2006, 11:29 PM
It's Griffey's fault




:D

flyer85
08-01-2006, 11:32 PM
Not only is Clayton not making the spectacular play, he's not even making the routine play. Disappointing to say the least.I'm sorry, Clayton makes the routine play, Marty said so.

cincrazy
08-01-2006, 11:35 PM
Definitely Griffey's fault! I mean geez, if Griffey isn't back there staring at Clayton and making him nervous, then there's no way he's botching all of these plays!! DAMN THAT GRIFFEY!

:D

jnwohio
08-01-2006, 11:36 PM
One of Pete Rose's theories, (as presented by Tracy Jones) was that guys who need their legs to do their jobs (i.e. middle infielders, outfielders depended on for defense etc.) could "lose it in an the blink of an eye" when they age. Seeing 3 weeks of Clayton I have to wonder if he has crossed that line during this season.

Down in Houston, how did he not get to Berkman's RBI single in the 3rd game. Then of course he fell down and nearly missed turning the game ending double play. And, the problems he had in Milwaukee have been beaten around pretty good here..

Tonight I thought Martin's single off Arroyo in the 4 run inning looked very playable for Clayton; and of course he subsequently botched that gimme DP which along with Freel's earlier error opened the flood gates. On the should have been DP, the guy was bearing down on him at little at 2nd but it was the catcher going to first. He had all kinds of time to step to the inside of the bag, get set and make a good throw. Instead he flipped that lollipup up there off the wrong foot and the rest is history. And we've been told he is out there for his veteran presence and situational awareness....

While we're passsing out goat's horns, Ross also played a part. In the 4 run inning, Dunn gave him a strong throw to make a play on Drew and he wasn't able to come up with the hop. They get that out and the 4 run inning becomes a zero run inning. The ball had Drew beat by close to 10 feet. I thought Ross was too passive. He could have steped around his backhand and stepped into the throw and have been moving right into the runner.

I'll bet Narron doesn't sleep a wink tonite thinking about those three plays that would have stopped 9 of the 10 runs.

flyer85
08-01-2006, 11:37 PM
One of Pete Rose's theories, (as presented by Tracy Jones) was that guys who need their legs to do their jobs (i.e. middle infielders, outfielders depended on for defense etc.) could "lose it in an the blink of an eye" when they age. Seeing 3 weeks of Clayton I have to wonder if he has crossed that line during this season.
he crossed it a few season back

Newport Red
08-01-2006, 11:39 PM
I'm sorry, Clayton makes the routine play, Marty said so.

Just curious. I was at the game so I wasn't listening.

What did marty say on the radio?

cincrazy
08-01-2006, 11:39 PM
The problem I had with Ross at that play at the plate was in inability to block the plate. With Larue in there, he at least attempts to do so, and maybe gets an out. But with that being said, with Larue in there, the catcher spot doesn't drive in two runs tonight, so who knows what would have happened. But you're right, Ross has a problem with those kind of plays at the plate. That's not the first one he's bobbled or dropped this year.

flyer85
08-01-2006, 11:43 PM
Just curious. I was at the game so I wasn't listening.

What did marty say on the radio?It was an interview he did yesterday with McAlister where he went on and on about Clayton and how he has solidifed the defense and makes the routine play.

fielder's choice
08-01-2006, 11:47 PM
Castro doesn't have great range but actually DOES make the routine play and CAN throw the ball 90 ft. Thus, he should be starting if Phillips isn't moving over this year. Clayton is a washed up hack, plain and simple.

BRM
08-02-2006, 12:04 AM
It's a sad day in Cincinnati when fans are clamoring for Juan Castro to be the everyday SS.

BRM
08-02-2006, 12:04 AM
I'm sorry, Clayton makes the routine play, Marty said so.

It must be fact then.

flyer85
08-02-2006, 12:07 AM
It must be fact then.well, HOFers don't need data to back their opinions. It must be taken on faith to worship at the altar of the poofy haired pooba.

wojo1025
08-02-2006, 12:14 AM
Can I ask a question? After the flop that Clayton gave Phillips a few nights ago that BP missed, has Clayton given up on going 6-4-3? I just watched the replay on Sportscenter of the missed doubleplay and it seems that BP was heading to the bag and Clayton tried to rush the play instead. Anyone else notice that?

fearofpopvol1
08-02-2006, 12:23 AM
You can blame Clayton (who I do agree sucks) or Freel or whoever all you want. It's pointless though. You might as well blame the pitcher then too. If the pitcher pitches the hitter right, you record an out (it's not like we were running Rick White out there). Nobody seemed to be making the plays and we lost the game. It's over and done with. Hopefully tomorrow will be a Win.

wojo1025
08-02-2006, 12:30 AM
Sorry, I can't place any blame on the pitcher in that situation. Todd Coffey made the pitch he needed, got the groundball he needed and the play was gaffed. No blame on Coff

jnwohio
08-02-2006, 12:42 AM
The problem I had with Ross at that play at the plate was in inability to block the plate. With Larue in there, he at least attempts to do so, and maybe gets an out........... But you're right, Ross has a problem with those kind of plays at the plate. That's not the first one he's bobbled or dropped this year.

Agreed, that was what I was trying to say. If he steps around the throw and takes the ball in front of him, he would have been in position to come accross Drew's path and push him wide of the plate to the dugout side.

Also agree that Ross in general is not good at catch and tag. I think what really happened to him tonite was that by being passive he allowed the ball to play him and it took more of a hop than a skip which made it a particularly difficult situation to stab back handed and make a sweep tag.