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View Full Version : To everyone who booed Clayton:



fielder's choice
08-01-2006, 11:13 PM
Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.

RedsFanatic
08-01-2006, 11:16 PM
For whoever wants to come and defend him and says you should never boo an athlete, please save your breath (or fingers). He gets paid money to play a game and Krivsky blew him up and this clown can't even make routine plays, much less extoirdinary ones. He can't hit either, DFA him. I'd rather see Anderson Machado up here.

flyer85
08-01-2006, 11:16 PM
Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.honestly I would not have booed Clayton. I never boo a player. Now I would boo the GM that traded for him and the manager that sticks him out there day fter day. At this point in his career he is what he is and what the data says he is, an offensive black hole and a below average defender. The kind of play he has exhibited since the trade is exactly what any person who wanted to be honest should have expected

I knew this what the Reds were going to get from Clayton and said so at the time of the trade. I truly wished it had been a 7 player deal.

spaethc
08-01-2006, 11:23 PM
I rarely boo players. I think the last player I booed was Jason Romano and that was more due to me being angry that he was even on the big league roster in the first place. Although its rare when I boo, I am ok with the booing of Royce. The one thing he was supposed to bring was solid D and he really hasn't done so thus far.

MaineRed
08-01-2006, 11:23 PM
Not a Clayton fan but booing him does no good. Save it for talk radio and message boards. Bringing that crap to the park just makes for an atmosphere the players don't want to be in. They hear that stuff and it affects them.

Anyone who thinks booing and pennants in towns like Cincy go hand in hand needs to have their head checked. I think it is a tribute to the players on this team that they have been able to bring a winning attitude to the ballpark because the fans sure don't.

I don't believe there is any rule that says you should get booed if you make a certain amount of cash. A guy should work hard when he gets paid a lot. But being treated like a piece of meat and enjoying it is not part of the package.

And I really dislike Royce Clayton. Always have.

WMR
08-01-2006, 11:26 PM
I booed him lustily from my home and would have booed just as enthusiastically had I been at GABP tonight!

reds44
08-01-2006, 11:27 PM
I booed him lustily from my home and would have booed just as enthusiastically had I been at GABP tonight!
+1

Falls City Beer
08-01-2006, 11:28 PM
To everyone who booed Clayton:

Louder next time!!!

dieselman44
08-01-2006, 11:30 PM
If your gonna boo clayton you should have booed freel.

reds44
08-01-2006, 11:31 PM
If your gonna boo clayton you should have booed freel.
Freel has been a good player for us all year. He earned some slack. Royce Clayton has sucked since the day he was traded here.

If you don't want Royce on the team, boo him every atbat.

WMR
08-01-2006, 11:32 PM
No Freel's error was the exception, not the rule.

His contributions both offensively and defensively outweigh the errors that he will commit over the course of a season.

Now CLAYTON, on the other hand...

Far East
08-01-2006, 11:38 PM
What good is booing a home team player other than just some venting by the fan? It' hardly going to affect management.

More than likely, the booing is not going to cause the player to perform any better; perhaps it will make him play worse. Then perhaps the whole team will be worse off. And perhaps the fan dooing the booing is to some degree responsible. So if that's your goal, then keep on booing, by all means.

WMR
08-01-2006, 11:41 PM
Or maybe the booing will force the manager and/or GM to realize the idiocy of their ways and how a happy fanbase is better than a booing one.

Cincinnati fans don't boo indiscriminately.

Gizmo
08-01-2006, 11:41 PM
I was there, I booed. Not neccessarily Clayton, but the idea that Clayton's here screwing things up left and right.

And as for booing Freel, fool ran forever to get half a glove on the ball down the line. Should he have caught it? Yes. Does it fall in for a double against most RFers? Probably. He hustled and botched a great attempt. Clayton blows a routine DP that would have atoned for Freel's mishap.

TOBTTReds
08-01-2006, 11:41 PM
I boo the GM that traded for him and expects him to be our starting SS. RC is who he is, what do you expect from him? It isn't his fault he is bad is it? He is an old sCrappy vet.

We all talked about how our biggest problem before the deadline was our SS, it showed tonight.

dieselman44
08-01-2006, 11:53 PM
All im saying is Royce doesnt HAVE to throw the ball the first if Freel catches the ball. So you wouldnt of gotten the chance to boo him.

Johnny Footstool
08-01-2006, 11:57 PM
I usually don't boo failure. I boo lack of effort.

Clayton isn't playing lazy; he's just not a good player.

fielder's choice
08-01-2006, 11:58 PM
All im saying is Royce doesnt HAVE to throw the ball the first if Freel catches the ball. So you wouldnt of gotten the chance to boo him.

You couldn't have hit a fungo and made an easier DP for him. Sure, Freel dropped a ball, but that's no excuse for Clayton's pitiful effort.

TOBTTReds
08-02-2006, 12:10 AM
You couldn't have hit a fungo and made an easier DP for him. Sure, Freel dropped a ball, but that's no excuse for Clayton's pitiful effort.

Good point. It is like a pitcher that has an error committed behind him. Doesn't excuse giving up 3-run doubles and stuff just bc the run is "unearned"

ThatsAStrike
08-02-2006, 12:16 AM
I'm not so sure they were booing Clayton as much as they were booing the bad call by the ump. The replay showed he was clearly out.

Eh they were probably booing both.

fielder's choice
08-02-2006, 12:19 AM
I'm not so sure they were booing Clayton as much as they were booing the bad call by the ump. The replay showed he was clearly out.

Eh they were probably booing both.

They booed Clayton after his groundout.

Shaggy Sanchez
08-02-2006, 12:25 AM
I don't mind if people boo players, I have booed my fair share on occasion. I would like to point out that Clayton is not the only one who should have been booed tonight. I know he made an error to keep the inning going but only after Freel had done the same thing. You can say all you want that Freel has been a better player for us but he still made an error. I would also like to point out that if Bray hadn't put the first 2 hitters he faced on base the Clayton play doesn't even factor in to the situation. What would have happened if Coffey hadn't walked Loney? Shouldn't we have also been booing Cormier for giving up a bases loaded walk and a double.

The inning was ugly there is no question there but to put all the blame on Clayton is absurd. Bray didn't do his job, Freel droped a ball, Clayton made a throwing mistake, and Cormier was terrible. That was an equal opportunity booing situation that is being focused on Clayton because of dislike for him.

snowstorm
08-02-2006, 12:39 AM
I don't mind if people boo players, I have booed my fair share on occasion. I would like to point out that Clayton is not the only one who should have been booed tonight. I know he made an error to keep the inning going but only after Freel had done the same thing. You can say all you want that Freel has been a better player for us but he still made an error. I would also like to point out that if Bray hadn't put the first 2 hitters he faced on base the Clayton play doesn't even factor in to the situation. What would have happened if Coffey hadn't walked Loney? Shouldn't we have also been booing Cormier for giving up a bases loaded walk and a double.

The inning was ugly there is no question there but to put all the blame on Clayton is absurd. Bray didn't do his job, Freel droped a ball, Clayton made a throwing mistake, and Cormier was terrible. That was an equal opportunity booing situation that is being focused on Clayton because of dislike for him.

Great post. I know that Clayton's been bad since he's been here, but to place all blame on him is totally unfair. Every member of this team screwed up equally today: Clayton, Freel, Bray, Arroyo, Coffey, etc.

This whole team needs a kick in the you-know-what. I know that every player on this team is capable of much more than what they've been showing these last 3 games. They need to play with more fire than what they're currently playing with because it's not going to win them the Central or the wild card. Go out there and play with a purpose!

tomred
08-02-2006, 12:42 AM
My question is it looks to me that Clayton does not want to be here it just seems that way to me with his body movements any thoughts

Edd Roush
08-02-2006, 12:57 AM
Okay okay, every one I was at the game and I can say that I booed Clayton throughout the end of the game with my entire heart. That man at SS is a complete and utter joke. The man can't run, hit or field. No wonder JimBo didn't want him any more, he is a 0-tool player. Seriously. I was in Section 102 in left field and we were all cracking on Clayton.

And as for booing only having a negative impact on a player, I disagree. In all forms of employment, I think constructive criticism is a good thing. Whether booing is constructive is up for debate, but I sincerely believe that if my profession was playing professional baseball and I was booed, I would get up an hour early the next day and tell my bench coach to hit my fungos until he got tired of doing it. I would want to make myself sharp and prove every one wrong.

How much good does it do sulking around playing horrible and getting booed? Not much. I'd be out there working at it even more than I currently was and if I physically didn't have it in me, I'd retire. I would have too much pride in my work to be a shell of myself. Especially if I were Royce Clayton, meaning not that good in the first place.

As for Freel's error, it was very hard to get super distraught over it. An inning or two before the error, Freel crashed into the wall with his glove hand, making a spectacular catch. I can only wonder if that collision had an effect on him not making the other catch. Freel always hustles and never complains, that's why I didn't boo him.

As for Clayton, I don't know if he's got it in the tank. He's got no range and very few average baseball skills. It's time for Phillips at SS, EdE at 3rd and RA at 2nd ASAP. Royce Clayton is horrible. Just my 2 cents.

Spitball
08-02-2006, 01:14 AM
Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.

I was sitting in box seats behind the Red Sox dugout late in the 1976 season when Carlton Fisk had not yet signed a contract with the Sox and appeared he was going to go for free agency (which he didn't that year). Fred Lynn and Rick Burleson were in the same situation and the Fenway faithful were booing them with gusto every time they came to the plate because the situation was new and they were being seen as serious traders to the team.

I was sitting near boxing promoter Sam Silverman and several local fighters including future middle weight champion Marvin Hagler and John "Dino" Dennis who would one day fight for the heavy weight championship. Anyway, there was this fan and he stood up, pointed his finger over the dugout, and he loudly booed Fisk as he returned to the dugout after striking out against then Oakland pitcher Mike Torrez. He punctuated his response by yelling, "Fisk, you are ruining baseball!" Fisk made a very serious move like he was going to come into the stands and the guy bolted out of there in terror.

I remember all those boxers absolutely loved it, but the point was that fan was really an absolute coward. It took absolutely not a single ounce of courage to sit there in a crowd and berate that player. It didn't prove anything, and it didn't solve anything. It simply showed the bravado that small people can feel when they are protected by a crowd

You know, I'm sure Fisk, Burleson, and Lynn had family in the stands that night. Their kids and wives witnessed the booing. I bet Clayton may have had family at least listening to the game. I bet they don't thank the booers from the bottoms of their hearts, but then they probably have more character than that.

TeamBoone
08-02-2006, 01:25 AM
I'm not so sure they were booing Clayton as much as they were booing the bad call by the ump. The replay showed he was clearly out.

Did they show the replay on the board at the ballpark? They don't normally do that. If they did not, then there was no way the crowd knew the ump made a bad call because it was pretty much a bang bang play... the ones up close with a great view might have been able to see it, but most of those present would not have been able to.

reds44
08-02-2006, 02:07 AM
Did they show the replay on the board at the ballpark? They don't normally do that. If they did not, then there was no way the crowd knew the ump made a bad call because it was pretty much a bang bang play... the ones up close with a great view might have been able to see it, but most of those present would not have been able to.
Clayton was booed after he grounded out the inning after. He could have been booed after the throw, but I didn't notice it.

vic715
08-02-2006, 02:19 AM
At this point If Narron wants to keep Aurilia in the (and its not a bad idea) then put him on Short and let EE play. The ump blew the play but Clayton still blew the throw.If this bullpen and the defense don't shapeup soon it really won't matter who plays SS.

Tom B
08-02-2006, 08:45 AM
If your gonna boo clayton you should have booed freel.


Why boo Freel? He at least had a hit last night! All Clayton did was hit weak grounders back to the shortstop and f-up what should have been an inning ending double play that probably cost the reds the game. BTW the ball Freel dropped wasnt exactly the easiest or routine either...

fielder's choice
08-02-2006, 08:52 AM
I was sitting in box seats behind the Red Sox dugout late in the 1976 season when Carlton Fisk had not yet signed a contract with the Sox and appeared he was going to go for free agency (which he didn't that year). Fred Lynn and Rick Burleson were in the same situation and the Fenway faithful were booing them with gusto every time they came to the plate because the situation was new and they were being seen as serious traders to the team.

I was sitting near boxing promoter Sam Silverman and several local fighters including future middle weight champion Marvin Hagler and John "Dino" Dennis who would one day fight for the heavy weight championship. Anyway, there was this fan and he stood up, pointed his finger over the dugout, and he loudly booed Fisk as he returned to the dugout after striking out against then Oakland pitcher Mike Torrez. He punctuated his response by yelling, "Fisk, you are ruining baseball!" Fisk made a very serious move like he was going to come into the stands and the guy bolted out of there in terror.

I remember all those boxers absolutely loved it, but the point was that fan was really an absolute coward. It took absolutely not a single ounce of courage to sit there in a crowd and berate that player. It didn't prove anything, and it didn't solve anything. It simply showed the bravado that small people can feel when they are protected by a crowd

You know, I'm sure Fisk, Burleson, and Lynn had family in the stands that night. Their kids and wives witnessed the booing. I bet Clayton may have had family at least listening to the game. I bet they don't thank the booers from the bottoms of their hearts, but then they probably have more character than that.

Oh well. Sorry, but I hope he gets booed every time he comes to the plate as long as he is in a Reds uniform. Even moreso after seeing his post-game comments.

ChaseReds
08-02-2006, 08:53 AM
I was sitting in box seats behind the Red Sox dugout late in the 1976 season when Carlton Fisk had not yet signed a contract with the Sox and appeared he was going to go for free agency (which he didn't that year). Fred Lynn and Rick Burleson were in the same situation and the Fenway faithful were booing them with gusto every time they came to the plate because the situation was new and they were being seen as serious traders to the team.

I was sitting near boxing promoter Sam Silverman and several local fighters including future middle weight champion Marvin Hagler and John "Dino" Dennis who would one day fight for the heavy weight championship. Anyway, there was this fan and he stood up, pointed his finger over the dugout, and he loudly booed Fisk as he returned to the dugout after striking out against then Oakland pitcher Mike Torrez. He punctuated his response by yelling, "Fisk, you are ruining baseball!" Fisk made a very serious move like he was going to come into the stands and the guy bolted out of there in terror.

I remember all those boxers absolutely loved it, but the point was that fan was really an absolute coward. It took absolutely not a single ounce of courage to sit there in a crowd and berate that player. It didn't prove anything, and it didn't solve anything. It simply showed the bravado that small people can feel when they are protected by a crowd

You know, I'm sure Fisk, Burleson, and Lynn had family in the stands that night. Their kids and wives witnessed the booing. I bet Clayton may have had family at least listening to the game. I bet they don't thank the booers from the bottoms of their hearts, but then they probably have more character than that.

Thank you for bringing much needed intelligence to this board! I couldn’t agree with you more. “Booing” in itself does not accomplish anything. Some would argue “why yes Booing motivates the players to do better”- to those who say that I would say this- why not use all that energy to try to encourage a player and show some support. After all this is Baseball- errors happen, bad games happen. Some of you on this board think you are Mini-GM’s and Mini-Managers and that you would make consistently perfect trades and perfect lineups.

Bottom line: Encourage your team if you want them to respond positively. Reds fan (in the 70s) were known around the league for the encouragement they gave their team- mind you it was the 70’s and no the Reds were not dominate for the entire 70’s. I wonder what our fans today would be called? Seems to me there are a lot of “wishy-washy” “bandwagon” fans (<--- that commit is not direct to anyone posting on this thread, just a generalization for my observation)

flyer85
08-02-2006, 09:00 AM
Great post. I know that Clayton's been bad since he's been here, but to place all blame on him is totally unfair. That is true. The difference between Clayton and the others is the Reds should have been smart enough to know what they were getting before the deal. They were not and are now likely to pay a steep price for it.

M2
08-02-2006, 09:14 AM
Clayton's getting booed. Majewski's getting booed. This from Reds fans who aren't known as boo birds.

What that tells me is folks were skittish about that big trade and have been horrified by some of the early returns.

redsupport
08-02-2006, 09:15 AM
clayton is an out machine

bigdaddy
08-02-2006, 09:17 AM
Jerry, needs to sit him and put Castro in there.

Johnny Footstool
08-02-2006, 09:20 AM
[/B]

Thank you for bringing much needed intelligence to this board! I couldn’t agree with you more. “Booing” in itself does not accomplish anything. Some would argue “why yes Booing motivates the players to do better”- to those who say that I would say this- why not use all that energy to try to encourage a player and show some support. After all this is Baseball- errors happen, bad games happen. Some of you on this board think you are Mini-GM’s and Mini-Managers and that you would make consistently perfect trades and perfect lineups.

Bottom line: Encourage your team if you want them to respond positively. Reds fan (in the 70s) were known around the league for the encouragement they gave their team- mind you it was the 70’s and no the Reds were not dominate for the entire 70’s. I wonder what our fans today would be called? Seems to me there are a lot of “wishy-washy” “bandwagon” fans (<--- that commit is not direct to anyone posting on this thread, just a generalization for my observation)

These aren't little leaguers or kids with fragile psyches. They're grown men who make millions of dollars. All we expect is that they put out maximum effort. I don't think there's anything wrong with letting them know when they aren't.

dabvu2498
08-02-2006, 09:27 AM
These aren't little leaguers or kids with fragile psyches. They're grown men who make millions of dollars. All we expect is that they put out maximum effort. I don't think there's anything wrong with letting them know when they aren't.
Do you think Clayton, Majewski, etc. aren't giving effort???

If so, I don't agree. There's a big difference between not giving effort and not performing or not having skills.

boognish
08-02-2006, 09:59 AM
I was at the game and am a hardened Royce Clayton basher, but did not "boo" him, though I was disgusted with him at several points last night, building upon a general feeling of nausea every time I see him in a Reds uniform. I just don't boo players for lack of ability, and I shall cheer if Clayton succeeds for the Reds.

The booing actually didn't sound that loud...I've heard Griffey booed louder for not running out a grounder to first. Come to think of it, there was a smattering on his broken bat grounder last night.

Clayton is useless as a ballplayer and should not be on the team, but I do not hold him personally accountable for Krivsky's decision to include him in the trade as though he had some sort of value, nor do I hold him responsible for Narron's dogged insistence on starting him every day.

Seriously...does Clayton bring anything Ray Olmedo would not?

Another side note...is playing "the right way" synonymous with playing "with no range?"

BuckWoody
08-02-2006, 10:04 AM
One observation I've made about Clayton's play is that he and Phillips have absolutely no chemistry yet. Last night's play started with Clayton fielding the ball and immediately looking to flip it to BP who wasn't on the bag. The hesitation cost him just enough time to let the runner get right on him and cause him to rush the throw. Why he wanted to flip it to the 2nd basemen in that situation in the first place is another story.

They had similar problems last week when Clayton did flip the ball to BP when he wasn't expecting it and it was dropped for zero outs on the play.

Bucky Dent needs to get those two out there before games and work on some "situational fielding". There needs to be a lot better communication between our SS and our 2B if, in fact, Clayton is to be our starting SS.

OldXOhio
08-02-2006, 10:10 AM
yeah, booing accomplishes so much. It lets the athlete know you're not happy with his performance, as if his mistake was done on purpose and he didn't know he screwed up already. Even if the guy is loafing, I just don't see its purpose.

Booing is bush in my mind.

flyer85
08-02-2006, 10:12 AM
Boo WK for acquiring and Narron for playing him. Royce is what he is.

Johnny Footstool
08-02-2006, 10:12 AM
Do you think Clayton, Majewski, etc. aren't giving effort???

If so, I don't agree. There's a big difference between not giving effort and not performing or not having skills.

Personally, I don't think it's lack of effort, so I'm not booing my TV. Some people might see it that way, though. If they want to boo, that's their prerogative.


yeah, booing accomplishes so much. It lets the athlete know you're not happy with his performance, as if his mistake was done on purpose and he didn't know he screwed up already.

Booing is bush.

It has nothing to do with "the athlete making mistakes on purpose." It has everything to do with letting him know you're frustrated with his performance.

You cheer when he does well. Why is it "bush" to boo when he doesn't?

westofyou
08-02-2006, 10:14 AM
This from Reds fans who aren't known as boo birds.

You mean the same ones who booed Griffey when he was hurt? Booed Bob Boone? Booed Danny Graves, Booed Dunn on opening day?

The same folks who booed Nuxhall out of town 46 years ago?

They've booed plenty of guys, and I venture they'll keep it up.

princeton
08-02-2006, 10:30 AM
yeah, booing accomplishes so much. It lets the athlete know you're not happy with his performance, as if his mistake was done on purpose and he didn't know he screwed up already. Even if the guy is loafing, I just don't see its purpose.

you had me until that last sentence

OldXOhio
08-02-2006, 10:33 AM
you had me until that last sentence

understood - again, just not my thing.

CySeymour
08-02-2006, 10:41 AM
I was booing from home when leading off against Tomko and down by 4 runs, he swung at the first pitch!

RichRed
08-02-2006, 10:43 AM
I've never been able to bring myself to boo someone who plays for one of my favorite teams - I reserve that venom for the evil scumbags who have the audacity to play for the opposition. :evil:

Having said that, I will curse and complain to whoever I'm watching the game with until I'm blue in the face about the idiocy of...oh, let's just say for example, starting Royce For-Cryin'-Out-Loud Clayton at SS every single blessed day.

M2
08-02-2006, 11:00 AM
You mean the same ones who booed Griffey when he was hurt? Booed Bob Boone? Booed Danny Graves, Booed Dunn on opening day?

The same folks who booed Nuxhall out of town 46 years ago?

They've booed plenty of guys, and I venture they'll keep it up.

I'm originally from Philly, I've got impossibly high standards when it comes to boo birds.

Fans boo everywhere. I think it's fair to say that in Cincinnati you can usually point to some form of causation (though it may not be rational or right) rather than chalking it up to a fanbase with a hyperactive boo reflex. In this case it seems pretty clear that Reds fans aren't going to give slack to shoddy play from the guys acquired in the team's big trade.

Say what you about the games of Austin Kearns and Felipe Lopez, but they have talent and Reds fans have a history with them. People surely perceived them as having some value. When the first major impression of two of the guys that came in return for them is "Wait a second, this guy's awful!" then the discontent is going to spill over.

westofyou
08-02-2006, 11:01 AM
but they have talent and Reds fans have a history with them.
Yes they do, they booed Lopez pretty bad a couple of years ago too.

Tom B
08-02-2006, 11:13 AM
I was at the game and am a hardened Royce Clayton basher, but did not "boo" him, though I was disgusted with him at several points last night, building upon a general feeling of nausea every time I see him in a Reds uniform. I just don't boo players for lack of ability, and I shall cheer if Clayton succeeds for the Reds.

The booing actually didn't sound that loud...I've heard Griffey booed louder for not running out a grounder to first. Come to think of it, there was a smattering on his broken bat grounder last night.

Clayton is useless as a ballplayer and should not be on the team, but I do not hold him personally accountable for Krivsky's decision to include him in the trade as though he had some sort of value, nor do I hold him responsible for Narron's dogged insistence on starting him every day.

Seriously...does Clayton bring anything Ray Olmedo would not?

Another side note...is playing "the right way" synonymous with playing "with no range?"

Your the first to mention what I thought was just total BS on Griffey's part. He knew that he had hit the ball pretty hard down the line, broken bat or not, so why not run that one out? Am I the only one who thinks he might have been safe after the 1b men bobbled it? Iam not trying to bash Griffey, but just been noticing lately that he has been doing a lot of lully gag jogging around out on the field. Does he need more rest?

redsupport
08-02-2006, 11:16 AM
a lot more rest!

M2
08-02-2006, 11:19 AM
Yes they do, they booed Lopez pretty bad a couple of years ago too.

And then he made the All-Star Game, on merit.

I'd actually venture a guess that Felipe got booed back in 2003 for the exact same reason Clayton and Majewski are hearing the cat calls this year. Fans at that time had to be thinking, "We traded Elmer Dessens coming off a 3.03 ERA season for this comedy act?"

The difference however is Lopez was young enough and had enough talent to work his way into being a useful ballplayer. Majewski lacks that sort of talent upside and Clayton's not getting any better.

Overall, I don't it's that surprising that in a playoff chase fans might voice their disapproval when a big trade is made to "fix" the team's pitching and defense and some of the particulars in the trade fail to deliver.

dsmith421
08-02-2006, 11:23 AM
Clayton isn't playing lazy; he's just not a good player.

Actually, given the "bubble incident" in Milwaukee, I think he's both.

The guy is absolute garbage and has no business on any Major League team, let alone one close to a pennant race.

dsmith421
08-02-2006, 11:25 AM
Overall, I don't it's that surprising that in a playoff chase fans might voice their disapproval when a big trade is made to "fix" the team's pitching and defense and all of the particulars in the trades have turned out to be unmitigated garbage, with the exception of Guardado, whose 88 mph fastballs are, at some point in the next month, going to start getting launched into orbit.

I made some slight edits.

BRM
08-02-2006, 11:25 AM
Clayton's getting booed. Majewski's getting booed. This from Reds fans who aren't known as boo birds.

What that tells me is folks were skittish about that big trade and have been horrified by some of the early returns.

Well said.

westofyou
08-02-2006, 11:29 AM
Overall, I don't it's that surprising that in a playoff chase fans might voice their disapproval when a big trade is made to "fix" the team's pitching and defense and some of the particulars in the trade fail to deliver.

Me either, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they booed louder if it gets worse, like it has in years before ore even like it was before the AS game.

My contention is that somehow Reds fans are thought of as non booers, they've always booed and back inthe horse and carriage days the town had the reputation of being hard on opposing players to the point of abuse. They boo bad players, good players, umps, other managers.... just not Santa Claus.

bounty37h
08-02-2006, 11:36 AM
"The man can't run, hit or field."

Wow, amazing to me that he has been in the majors for 15 years now if he cant even run, hit, or field. He must have something on someone big in baseball to stick around without any kind of baseball skills. How has he tricekd everyone for so long?

Cyclone792
08-02-2006, 11:36 AM
Ya know, if Royce Clayton gets booed right out of town, that'd be wholly beneficial to the franchise at this point. Knowing this, not only do I not care if he mouths off to the media, I would encourage him to mouth off to the media. Let him become the 2006 version of Danny Graves. Whatever gets him out of the lineup and off the roster helps the team.

Go ahead, Royce, do us a favor, please. Draw the boos, mouth off to the media about the fans and just set yourself up to be booed out of town. And when you finally leave, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

fielder's choice
08-02-2006, 11:38 AM
"The man can't run, hit or field."

Wow, amazing to me that he has been in the majors for 15 years now if he cant even run, hit, or field. He must have something on someone big in baseball to stick around without any kind of baseball skills. How has he tricekd everyone for so long?

Players aren't as good when they're in their late 30's. It's really weird, I know.

BRM
08-02-2006, 11:39 AM
Even moreso after seeing his post-game comments.

What did he say?

flyer85
08-02-2006, 11:42 AM
What did he say?from the Post


After the game, Clayton bristled when asked about the play.
"Did you see how far away I was from the bag?" he said. "I've got to get to the bag, throw a perfect throw. I'm not perfect."

fielder's choice
08-02-2006, 11:43 AM
"How far away was I from the bag?" Clayton said. "I had to get to the bag and make a perfect throw. I'm not perfect."

Johnny Footstool
08-02-2006, 11:47 AM
He was four feet from the bag and already headed towards it. Phillips was three feet from the bag and already stopping to let Clayton take it himself.

Nice excuse, Royce.:rolleyes:

Edd Roush
08-02-2006, 11:56 AM
"The man can't run, hit or field."

Wow, amazing to me that he has been in the majors for 15 years now if he cant even run, hit, or field. He must have something on someone big in baseball to stick around without any kind of baseball skills. How has he tricekd everyone for so long?

I was not referring to his entire subpar career, but rather his last month as a Red. He certainly can't get on base at the average rate of a shortstop, he has subpar speed, subpar range, and so far subpar defensive skills. It's time for a change, otherwise I don't think we'll come as close as we did in '99.

westofyou
08-02-2006, 11:57 AM
"The man can't run, hit or field."

Wow, amazing to me that he has been in the majors for 15 years now if he cant even run, hit, or field. He must have something on someone big in baseball to stick around without any kind of baseball skills. How has he tricekd everyone for so long?
I suggested that he used the force in the game thread... to a barrage of questions about my sanity.

Almost 10,000 players have played MLB, only around 251 have 7000 ab's

Only 21 men have played 1900 games at SS, Royce is one of them.

That said, stick a fork in him... even Honus Wagner retired..... twice.

MaineRed
08-02-2006, 12:01 PM
Royce is one of those guys that people will look back at and say he made a nice life for himself as a big leaguer. He doesn't deserve to have his career ripped to shreds. One of 21 is something, whether people want to give credit or not.

But he does look done. I just wish the Reds had a better alternative. The anti Castro threads will flare up mighty quick if he becomes the starter, that is for sure.

Johnny Footstool
08-02-2006, 12:54 PM
Clayton's career is proof that a reputation as a good defender is overvalued.

flyer85
08-02-2006, 01:22 PM
Clayton's career is proof that a reputation as a good defender is overvalued.The problem is that Royce started a serious decline as a defender in 2004, not surpising because the large majority of SS lose their ability to play the position well by their mid 30s(even the good ones). All Royce is left with at their point is a reputation grown stale.

TeamBoone
08-02-2006, 02:08 PM
One observation I've made about Clayton's play is that he and Phillips have absolutely no chemistry yet. Last night's play started with Clayton fielding the ball and immediately looking to flip it to BP who wasn't on the bag. The hesitation cost him just enough time to let the runner get right on him and cause him to rush the throw. Why he wanted to flip it to the 2nd basemen in that situation in the first place is another story.

They had similar problems last week when Clayton did flip the ball to BP when he wasn't expecting it and it was dropped for zero outs on the play.

Bucky Dent needs to get those two out there before games and work on some "situational fielding". There needs to be a lot better communication between our SS and our 2B if, in fact, Clayton is to be our starting SS.

I totally agree with this observation. Something isn't meshing between these two. Will it ever? I don't know.

Though it's nothing concrete that I can put my finger on, I have this feeling that Phillips and Clayton don't particularly like each other and maybe it's reflected on the field? I don't know. I know I'm reading a lot into my gut feeling, but it's almost like Clayton feels superior to Phillips because he's a vet and maybe blames those misplays between SS and 2B on Brandon.

Matt700wlw
08-02-2006, 03:09 PM
For whoever wants to come and defend him and says you should never boo an athlete, please save your breath (or fingers). He gets paid money to play a game and Krivsky blew him up and this clown can't even make routine plays, much less extoirdinary ones. He can't hit either, DFA him. I'd rather see Anderson Machado up here.

I'm not a booer...but if people want to boo...they bought their ticket, so they can go ahead and boo.

boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! :)

CTA513
08-02-2006, 03:18 PM
Booing is 1000000x better than throwing stuff on the field like Cubs fans have done this year.

:ughmamoru

Spitball
08-02-2006, 06:05 PM
How does booing help?

Clayton doesn't need a mob of strangers telling him he has messed up. He has played the game long enough to know he has not performed well. He is not going to wait for fan reaction to determine the quality of his performance.

Also, it doesn't inspire him to perform better. If anything, it puts more pressure on the player. Why do teams call time-outs before an opponent takes a free throw or kicks a field goal? Because it gives the player time to think about failure and the consequences. Booing can also make a player think about failure and the consequences.

I don't know how many times I've seen the "I bought the ticket so I have the right to boo" justification or "he makes millions and should be able to take it" reasoning. Doctors are very rich, and we pay for their services. Yet, I have never heard of anyone booing a doctor. What an absurd thought.

Booing doesn't help. It is merely fans following mob mentality and hiding in the security of numbers.

bottom_feeder
08-02-2006, 11:50 PM
If the fans have fun booing and it's justified, let them boo. They pay their money to be entertained. If booing makes the game fun for them, let them boo.

Clayton has been in this game so long that I doubt it really bothers him. I'm sure he knows as soon as he gets a game winning hit, the fans will suddenly love him. Some people act as if these ballplayers are shy 7 year olds. They aren't.

Spitball
08-03-2006, 12:31 AM
If the fans have fun booing and it's justified, let them boo.

Sorry, but I guess I have to boo your post.



They pay their money to be entertained. If booing makes the game fun for them, let them boo.

We can justify boorish behavior because we pay money??? I can insult my cashier at Kroger because I'm paying money? I can be rude to my child's teacher because I pay taxes? Give me a break and use the principles your parents surely instilled in you.



Clayton has been in this game so long that I doubt it really bothers him. I'm sure he knows as soon as he gets a game winning hit, the fans will suddenly love him. Some people act as if these ballplayers are shy 7 year olds. They aren't.

Maybe, but these guys have families and it bothers them. How would you like it if your son or father had to endure thousands of fans venting their frustrations with their team on your loved one. My feelings on this matter have been deeply effected by Carl Yastrzemski's autobiography in which he details the pain his family went through when Boston fans heeped their frustrations on him. What gives fans the right to cause pain on any one individual or his family because he fails to execute a difficult athletic task? I'm not talking about lack of effort here, but the inherent human propensity for error.

Johnny Footstool
08-03-2006, 12:40 AM
What do you suggest, Spitball? Polite applause? Should we cheer "Good Try!" in unison? Maybe put a "Do Better Next Time" balloon bouquet in his locker?

I really don't see the problem with booing players to let them know how you feel. It's much better than calling them names, throwing things, insulting their masculinity, etc.

Spitball
08-03-2006, 12:55 AM
What do you suggest, Spitball? Polite applause? Should we cheer "Good Try!" in unison? Maybe put a "Do Better Next Time" balloon bouquet in his locker?

I really don't see the problem with booing players to let them know how you feel. It's much better than calling them names, throwing things, insulting their masculinity, etc.

You said it yourself several posts ago before you decided to alter your principles. I have no problem with booing obvious lack of effort. I have a huge problem with cowardly booing, protected by the masses and hidden from view, of those who attack physical errors as in Clayton's case and the subject of this thread. We all make errors. To err is human. Boo the things that are within a player's control but not those things that are not. Boo Narron for playing the guy but not the player for his honest efforts.

Ron Madden
08-03-2006, 06:18 AM
Freel has been a good player for us all year. He earned some slack. Royce Clayton has sucked since the day he was traded here.

If you don't want Royce on the team, boo him every atbat.

Clatyon is not a starting SS.

He gives away far too many outs on offense and defense.

I'd never boo HIM though. Kriviski brought him here and i'ts Narrons fault he plays everyday.

I've often heard Kriviski was a good Scout and a good judge of talent. Many have told me Narron is a good Manager.I'm left confused because I just don't see it.

MaineRed
08-03-2006, 06:35 AM
What do you suggest, Spitball? Polite applause? Should we cheer "Good Try!" in unison? Maybe put a "Do Better Next Time" balloon bouquet in his locker?

I really don't see the problem with booing players to let them know how you feel. It's much better than calling them names, throwing things, insulting their masculinity, etc.

Of course you don't see the problem, your not the one being booed. I don't get the logic that it is OK since there are worse things you could do.

There are worse things Royce Clayton could do too.

fielder's choice
08-03-2006, 08:26 AM
Boo Narron for playing the guy but not the player for his honest efforts.

How exactly would you boo Narron? Believe me, I would if I could, but it's kind of hard when he's in the dugout. Booing the washed up old man he has at SS everyday is the next best thing.

Johnny Footstool
08-03-2006, 09:28 AM
You said it yourself several posts ago before you decided to alter your principles. I have no problem with booing obvious lack of effort. I have a huge problem with cowardly booing, protected by the masses and hidden from view, of those who attack physical errors as in Clayton's case and the subject of this thread. We all make errors. To err is human. Boo the things that are within a player's control but not those things that are not. Boo Narron for playing the guy but not the player for his honest efforts.

Altering my principles? I said I would boo a guy if I thought he wasn't giving his best effort. My choice. I'm not going to condemn anyone else for choosing to boo what they perceive as poor effort.

Protected by the masses? So booing is only appropriate if you stand up and do it when everyone else is quiet?

registerthis
08-03-2006, 09:37 AM
How does booing help?

As a fan, sometimes it makes you feel better to get it off your chest. I don't "boo" for lack of effort, I "boo" out of frustration. That's not boorish behavior--it's the expression of pent-up frustration.

How many have watched a player make an error and uttered something like "Aw, come on!" or "Are you kidding me?" Practically everyone. How, then, is that substantially different from simply letting loose with a loud "Booooo"? If the "boo" has more negative connotations, that's the other person's problem, not mine.

You can elect not to boo if you wish, but it's not "taking the high road" as some would like to believe--you're simply expressing your frustration in different ways.

REDREAD
08-03-2006, 09:39 AM
We can justify boorish behavior because we pay money??? I can insult my cashier at Kroger because I'm paying money? I can be rude to my child's teacher because I pay taxes? Give me a break and use the principles your parents surely instilled in you.
.

I'm not a fan of booing, but there's a difference between booing entertainers and insulting a cashier or teacher.

In the end, baseball is entertainment. Throughout history, if the entertainment is disappointing, the audience will boo.

I don't boo, but I'm not going to get upset if someone else does. It's part of the job. If Clayton or Yaz is tired of the booing, they had the option of retiring or changing careers just like anyone else. All jobs have crap that you have to put up with.

Although I do think that Carl Lindner getting booed on opening day was awesome! I would've booed him.

Always Red
08-03-2006, 09:48 AM
personally, I've always thought that complete, utter and total silence is much more effective than booing.

Indifference and apathy (attendance?) are a worse sign for a team than fans expressing displeasure by booing.

I don't mind the boobirds much, although I have to laugh when I sit next to one who boos constantly- it just doesn't have much effect other than on his vocal cords!

I've booed on occasion, too. Umpires mostly! Mental errors, yes, but on physical errors, I never have booed players. It's a hard game, and physical errors are a part of the game, which is why you seldom hear pitchers ***** about errors; more often balls that should be hits are turned into outs by major league fielders than are sure outs misplayed into errors.

registerthis
08-03-2006, 10:08 AM
personally, I've always thought that complete, utter and total silence is much more effective than booing.

Indifference and apathy (attendance?) are a worse sign for a team than fans expressing displeasure by booing.

But my goal isn't to give a sign to the team that I'm displeased--I'm certain the team knows that playing poorly does not make the fans happy. Like I said earlier, the times that I "boo" are generally out of frustration, not out of any desire to communicate some level of dissafection or unhappiness.

Always Red
08-03-2006, 10:20 AM
I understand; I'm not much of a boobird, but when I do, it is also out of frustration when I see lack of effort or focus.

Staying away expresses displeasure with the entire organization, front office and all. And look, it worked with the Bengals- folks stayed away enough until the entire organization was rebuilt. Booing is more individualized, and sometimes effective goal to goad a particular player along.

My humor is in seeing the guy who sits and boos the entire game long- happened earlier this year to me. It didn't upset me at all, he was within his rights, and I probably had more beer in me than he did in him, I just thought it was humorous because in the long run, he wasn't accomplishing anything. Just getting his frustrations out, I guess!

WMR
08-03-2006, 04:00 PM
Why else did I go to a pre-2002 Bengal game if not to get my booing, collective 'Mike Brown Step Down'-chants, and player/coach cat-calling in?