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View Full Version : Denorfia shows up twice in BA AAA "Best Tools" article



flyer85
08-02-2006, 09:17 AM
In the BA AAA "Best Tools" article Denorfia showed up twice.

In the International League he won
1) Best Strike Zone Judgement
2) Best Defensive Outfielder

It's amazing the way after a few starts Narron has completely buried him.

KalDanielsfan
08-02-2006, 09:19 AM
its amazing that Narron is a manager and Krivsky still gets his ass kissed by so many.

both are overrated.

Denorfia should be a star in the making but we're messing it up right now

Caveman Techie
08-02-2006, 09:26 AM
Yeah, cause the Reds are in such a worse state than they were last year at this time. :rolleyes:

CySeymour
08-02-2006, 09:30 AM
Denorfia does need to play, but at who's expense? Dunn? Jr? Freel? To be honest, Freel has earned the right to play everyday, plus he is the only leadoff hitter on the team.

KalDanielsfan
08-02-2006, 09:30 AM
Yeah, cause the Reds are in such a worse state than they were last year at this time. :rolleyes:


i didnt say we were bad..actually im glad we are making progress but i think both GM and manager are overrated. thats all.

just my opinon

KalDanielsfan
08-02-2006, 09:31 AM
Denorfia does need to play, but at who's expense? Dunn? Jr? Freel? To be honest, Freel has earned the right to play everyday, plus he is the only leadoff hitter on the team.


freel at 2b, phillips at SS

flyer85
08-02-2006, 09:31 AM
Gosh and I thought it was the GM that said when they bring him up it will be to play and then on the day of the trade said he believes it is Deno's time.

wolfboy
08-02-2006, 09:42 AM
In the BA AAA "Best Tools" article Denorfia showed up twice.

In the International League he won
1) Best Strike Zone Judgement
2) Best Defensive Outfielder

It's amazing the way after a few starts Narron has completely buried him.

Jerry Narron hates playing anyone that is not fully vested in the MLB pension plan. I don't find it amazing or surprising. I find it sad.

Rob Dicken
08-02-2006, 10:12 AM
Denorfia is a Castro type of player. Utility.

Just like Castro, he should be used off the bench. He really would be a weak part of the lineup on a daily basis.

CySeymour
08-02-2006, 10:28 AM
freel at 2b, phillips at SS

I honestly don't know the answer to this, but when was the last time Phillips played short? I really don't think it's as simple as just one day to move over to short from second and begin playing. Plus, it if has been a while, it will take him a while to get used to making the longer throws. To do it mid season might be a disaster

flyer85
08-02-2006, 10:39 AM
I honestly don't know the answer to this, but when was the last time Phillips played short? most of last season in AAA

RichRed
08-02-2006, 10:56 AM
Jerry Narron hates playing anyone that is not fully vested in the MLB pension plan. I don't find it amazing or surprising. I find it sad.

Which is when a good GM should step in and overrule the manager. I find it troubling that that hasn't happened. But I keep telling myself that Krivsky is still learning on the job and try to give him the benefit of the doubt. 'Tain't easy though.

fearofpopvol1
08-02-2006, 11:23 AM
I honestly don't know the answer to this, but when was the last time Phillips played short? I really don't think it's as simple as just one day to move over to short from second and begin playing. Plus, it if has been a while, it will take him a while to get used to making the longer throws. To do it mid season might be a disaster

Only had 1 major league start at SS.

I don't get why people continue to say move Brandon to SS during the middle of the season. It's not that easy people! It's not like moving from CF to LF. Anyone that has played ball at even a high school level can tell you that those 2 are not interchangable for most.

Is he capable of it? Of course. Is it a good idea in the middle of the season when he's playing very well at 2B? Absolutely not.

Start Castro at SS. Deno should see more playing time though and they should rotate Freel to other positions more often (especially 3B if they aren't going to play EdE).

Rex Argos
08-02-2006, 11:25 AM
Where are you going to play him? You're in the thick of a pennant race, and you're going to turn a position over to a rookie--in August?? I have no doubt that at some point Deno will be a solid contributor, I'm not sure that this is the best time.

BRM
08-02-2006, 11:32 AM
I don't get why people continue to say move Brandon to SS during the middle of the season. It's not that easy people! It's not like moving from CF to LF. Anyone that has played ball at even a high school level can tell you that those 2 are not interchangable for most.


Because he's a natural SS? Because he played over 100 games there last season in AAA? I really don't think BP will have that much trouble with the transition.

Freel to 2B, BP to SS, and Deno in RF is probably the best offensive and defensive lineup the Reds could field but it would still leave EE on the bench. Unless Rich and Hat go back to their platoon at 1B...which I'm in favor of.

flyer85
08-02-2006, 11:32 AM
Where are you going to play him? You're in the thick of a pennant race, and you're going to turn a position over to a rookie--in August?? I have no doubt that at some point Deno will be a solid contributor, I'm not sure that this is the best time.kind of interesting the Twins took off when they got rid of the old guys and went with the youngsters.

fearofpopvol1
08-02-2006, 11:32 AM
Yeah, but the guy is 26. He's not getting any younger. I'm not saying he should start everyday or even see the majority of starts, but he should be seeing more starts than he is now. If not, send him back to AAA so he can get some playing time. I wouldn't let him sit on the bench 6-7 days a week sans a few PH opportunities.

osuceltic
08-02-2006, 11:38 AM
kind of interesting the Twins took off when they got rid of the old guys and went with the youngsters.
If it's that simple, let's DFA Junior and throw Jay Bruce in there.

Age has nothing to do with it. Teams take off when they have good players. Aurilia and Hatteberg have been big parts to this team's success.

flyer85
08-02-2006, 11:40 AM
If it's that simple, let's DFA Junior and throw Jay Bruce in there.strawman anyone?

Razor Shines
08-02-2006, 11:40 AM
Because he's a natural SS? Because he played over 100 games there last season in AAA? I really don't think BP will have that much trouble with the transition.

Freel to 2B, BP to SS, and Deno in RF is probably the best offensive and defensive lineup the Reds could field but it would still leave EE on the bench. Unless Rich and Hat go back to their platoon at 1B...which I'm in favor of.
I think if BP is moved to short then Rich should play 2b and EE should play 3b and Freel should stay in RF. We need all the pop we can get in our lineup and Deno doesn't have any.

fearofpopvol1
08-02-2006, 11:41 AM
Because he's a natural SS? Because he played over 100 games there last season in AAA? I really don't think BP will have that much trouble with the transition.

Freel to 2B, BP to SS, and Deno in RF is probably the best offensive and defensive lineup the Reds could field but it would still leave EE on the bench. Unless Rich and Hat go back to their platoon at 1B...which I'm in favor of.

That's AAA and that was a year ago. They won't move him while he's playing this well at 2B in the middle of a season. It's too risky in the thick of the playoff race.

BRM
08-02-2006, 11:43 AM
Age has nothing to do with it. Teams take off when they have good players. Aurilia and Hatteberg have been big parts to this team's success.

Yep. Rich and Hat are even more valuable in a 1B platoon.

BRM
08-02-2006, 11:43 AM
That's AAA and that was a year ago. They won't move him while he's playing this well at 2B in the middle of a season. It's too risky in the thick of the playoff race.

Right. It's much better to run the black hole known as Royce Clayton out there everyday.

BRM
08-02-2006, 11:49 AM
They won't move him while he's playing this well at 2B in the middle of a season. It's too risky in the thick of the playoff race.

That is a very good point and the main reason why I think they will leave him at 2B. The Reds will most likely have to sink or swim with Clayton/Castro at SS unless a better option can be had through a waiver wire deal this month.

flyer85
08-02-2006, 11:51 AM
That is a very good point and the main reason why I think they will leave him at 2B. The Reds will most likely have to sink or swim with Clayton/Castro at SS unless a better option can be had through a waiver wire deal this month.the only other options for the Reds are Olmedo or a trade for Jack Wilson (he would pass through waivers because of the contract)

fearofpopvol1
08-02-2006, 11:59 AM
I don't see how they don't start giving Castro more playing time. It may be a slight drop off offensively, but it's a huge difference defensively. Seems like a no brainer for a team that wants to be sharper defensively.

BRM
08-02-2006, 12:05 PM
the only other options for the Reds are Olmedo or a trade for Jack Wilson (he would pass through waivers because of the contract)

Would Olmedo be any worse?

flyer85
08-02-2006, 12:07 PM
Would Olmedo be any worse?I thought he was the best option of the three at the time of the trade. He certainly has a lot more range and athletic ability than the other two.

BRM
08-02-2006, 12:09 PM
I thought he was the best option of the three at the time of the trade. He certainly has a lot more range and athletic ability than the other two.

He can't be much worse offensively, can he? I'm sure he's a better defender than Castro or Clayton.

flyer85
08-02-2006, 12:11 PM
He can't be much worse offensively, can he? Against RHP pitching Olmedo would undoubtedly have the edge. If it was me I would get rid of Clayton and go with an Olmedo/Castro platoon.

BRM
08-02-2006, 12:12 PM
Against RHP pitching Olmedo would undoubtedly have the edge. If it was me I would get rid of Clayton and go with an Olmedo/Castro platoon.

Works for me. Where do I sign?

SteelSD
08-02-2006, 12:18 PM
That is a very good point and the main reason why I think they will leave him at 2B. The Reds will most likely have to sink or swim with Clayton/Castro at SS unless a better option can be had through a waiver wire deal this month.

Unfortunately, I don't think the Reds realize that their current position mandates taking the risk in order to provide more defensive stability and offensive proficiency. The Run Differential gap is growing. The offensive output is down about half a Run per game. The Reds have been outscored since the ASB. They cannot make the playoffs if that continues. The defense isn't fixed. The Kearns/Lopez trade acquisitions have combined for -0.1 Wins above Replacement level thusfar.

In my estimation, the Reds are now at a flashpoint. External options are severely limited. Even if they weren't, the Reds really have nothing left to deal. Because of that, the Reds desperately need to look internally to identify opportunities to maximize Run scoring output. That's going to take some positional shuffling. Phillips to Short. Eddie E to Third. Freel to 2B. Aurilia back into his 1B platoon with Hatteberg. Denorfia in RF. Swapping positions with Griffey isn't going to happen, but it needs to.

Is all that risky? Yep. But no more risky than fielding a squad that continues to be outscored.

flyer85
08-02-2006, 12:21 PM
The defense isn't fixed. The Kearns/Lopez trade acquisitions have combined for -0.1 Wins above Replacement level thusfar.You would have thought that with the defensive issues, which are obviously still there, Krivsky would have focused on relief pitchers that miss bats.

flyer85
08-02-2006, 12:23 PM
Is all that risky? Yep. But no more risky than fielding a squad that continues to be outscored.Reds had a run deficit(losing Pythag record) at the break and it has only gotten worse.

Could they win if it continues? It is possible but highly improbable.

dougdirt
08-02-2006, 12:28 PM
Where are you going to play him? You're in the thick of a pennant race, and you're going to turn a position over to a rookie--in August?? I have no doubt that at some point Deno will be a solid contributor, I'm not sure that this is the best time.

Veterans dont win games, talent does. If someone has talent, regardless of service time, they will help you win more than someone with less talent with more experience.

BRM
08-02-2006, 12:30 PM
I didn't realize the run differential gap was getting worse since the break.

flyer85
08-02-2006, 12:33 PM
I didn't realize the run differential gap was getting worse since the break.Reds are -3 with a 10-7 record since the break.

fearofpopvol1
08-02-2006, 12:34 PM
I think an Olmedo/Castro platoon is a great idea too, but I don't see it happening. Jerry loves his vets too much!!

flyer85
08-02-2006, 12:36 PM
I think an Olmedo/Castro platoon is a great idea I think "least damaging of the potential options" is a better way to describe it.

fearofpopvol1
08-02-2006, 12:42 PM
I think "least damaging of the potential options" is a better way to describe it.

Well of course! I figured that was a given.

BRM
08-02-2006, 12:43 PM
Reds are -3 with a 10-7 record since the break.

Playing with fire. It's possible to outplay your run differential/Pythag but I'd hate to bet on that.

Rex Argos
08-02-2006, 12:43 PM
Veterans dont win games, talent does. If someone has talent, regardless of service time, they will help you win more than someone with less talent with more experience.

No argument there, but where does he play? I'm not trying to pick a fight, because I think he's a fine player. Where would you play him?

BRM
08-02-2006, 12:45 PM
No argument there, but where does he play? I'm not trying to pick a fight, because I think he's a fine player. Where would you play him?

He could play RF, sliding Freel to 2B and BP to SS.

flyer85
08-02-2006, 12:48 PM
Playing with fire. It's possible to outplay your run differential/Pythag but I'd hate to bet on that.they have won the bet to this point in the season. Betting on it not regressing towards the mean over the remainder of the season is a very high stakes gamble.

dougdirt
08-02-2006, 12:58 PM
No argument there, but where does he play? I'm not trying to pick a fight, because I think he's a fine player. Where would you play him?

Honestly, the entire line up needs so much tinkering its ridiculous and getting him time would be 3rd or 4th on the list of things that actually need to happen. That said, I really do think he is a better option to start in RF over Freel. Freel, while fast, doesnt read the ball the best in the OF. I think Freels offense isnt much of an upgrade over Denorfias would be if he were given a chance to play. Both can steal you some bases (freel a little more) but neither has much pop (but Deno has a little more) and both can get on base for you. Just my opinion of course, but this entire line up is so screwed up you would think Narron is trying molecular engineering.

M2
08-02-2006, 01:00 PM
In a thread on the other side of the board D-Man noted the Reds' offense is underperforming in that a team with its OB and SLG talents should be scoring a good bit more than it is. Cyclone made an excellent observation that benching the team's best doubles hitter (in addition to other lineup malfeasance) was the likely culprit for that.

Anyway, given that you can argue the Reds are better than their Pythag, making their current record not much of an anomaly. Then again, runs are an end result and if you're giving up more than score, for whatever reason, that has a way of biting you in the butt.

Yet there may be a better explanation for why Pythag isn't particularly operable in the NL season. When you've got so many mediocre teams bunched around the .500 mark and not a one of them has a compelling run differential then perhaps mico factors and happenstance are what ultimately will rule the day. I won't be the least bit surprised to see a few teams with a slightly positive run differential finish below .500 and a few teams with negative run differentials finish above .500.

We all know the NL is a mess. As such I think you have to allow that stats coming out of it are going to be messy.

wolfboy
08-02-2006, 01:16 PM
In a thread on the other side of the board D-Man noted the Reds' offense is underperforming in that a team with its OB and SLG talents should be scoring a good bit more than it is. Cyclone made an excellent observation that benching the team's best doubles hitter (in addition to other lineup malfeasance) was the likely culprit for that.

Anyway, given that you can argue the Reds are better than their Pythag, making their current record not much of an anomaly. Then again, runs are an end result and if you're giving up more than score, for whatever reason, that has a way of biting you in the butt.

Yet there may be a better explanation for why Pythag isn't particularly operable in the NL season. When you've got so many mediocre teams bunched around the .500 mark and not a one of them has a compelling run differential then perhaps mico factors and happenstance are what ultimately will rule the day. I won't be the least bit surprised to see a few teams with a slightly positive run differential finish below .500 and a few teams with negative run differentials finish above .500.

We all know the NL is a mess. As such I think you have to allow that stats coming out of it are going to be messy.

This is an excellent point. If there were ever a season to bet against a negative run differential normalizing, this would be it. It's always a risky bet, but this year it's much easier to make.

fearofpopvol1
08-02-2006, 02:01 PM
I think our offense is fine given what we have, it's just not played enough.

1.) EdE needs more playing time/at bats.
2.) Junior has to break out of this slump. If he starts swinging the way he should and is capable of, the run production will be much better.

flyer85
08-02-2006, 02:03 PM
The Reds have scored 4 runs or less in 11 of the 17 games since the break.

kyred14
08-02-2006, 03:47 PM
The Reds have scored 4 runs or less in 11 of the 17 games since the break.

Yep. And 5 of 6 times they scored 5+, EE started. He had a PH 2-run single in the other one. Why is he not playing everyday again?

dougdirt
08-02-2006, 05:32 PM
Yep. And 5 of 6 times they scored 5+, EE started. He had a PH 2-run single in the other one. Why is he not playing everyday again?

Becuase he MAY make an error :bang: