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Jr's Boy
08-07-2006, 11:46 AM
If we win all four or lose all four it really doesn't matter," he said. "We've still got a month, month and a half to play. So it's not like the season is going to be won or lost here in the next (four) days. Far from it.

"If we win the next (four), next Friday I don't think any of us are going to pop the champagne. If we lose I don't think any of us will mail it in and say the season is over."

Words of wisdom from Jerry Narron.

huber14
08-07-2006, 11:51 AM
sounds like he doesnt want to go to the playoffs but wants to take an early vacation instead.:thumbdown, but i suppose its not the end of the world if the Reds tank on this series.

redsfan30
08-07-2006, 11:52 AM
I don't have a problem with this, because he's right. Winning three out of four (or sweeping) does not in any way seal the division crown and losing three out of four (or getting swept) does not end post season hopes.

This is a HUGE series, but it's not the end all/be all of this season. The players need to get up for this series, but they are going to have to be very careful about letting back down after the series.

Falls City Beer
08-07-2006, 11:55 AM
If the Reds get swept, their season is all but over. But you sure as hell don't want your manager saying that or even hinting at that.

registerthis
08-07-2006, 11:56 AM
I don't really have a problem with that. this ISN'T the season, and like FCB said, you don't want your manager stating that the team's going to mail it in the rest of the way if they get swept.

redsmetz
08-07-2006, 11:58 AM
Stay on an even keel is what Jerry is saying. Let's not forget the finish to the 1964 season as recounted by Lonnie Wheeler a couple of years back:


Column by The Post's Lonnie Wheeler

Forty years later, Jim O'Toole can still see the whole scene from the on-deck circle at Crosley Field, where he waited to bat in the bottom of the seventh inning.
It was Friday night, the final weekend of the 1964 season, and the Reds led the Philadelphia Phillies 3-0, ready to reassume first place in one of the greatest pennant races the National League has ever seen. The Phillies, meanwhile, were two days from disappearing deep into some distant woods to blast away their miseries with the hunting rifles they had bought in foolish anticipation of World Series checks.

The race had been theirs all summer. Jim Bunning had pitched a perfect game on Father's Day. Johnny Callison was looking like a Most Valuable Player. Gene Mauch was making all the right moves as manager. With a dozen games to play, Philadelphia led by 6 ½, leaving the Reds, Cardinals and Giants to jostle for second place.

Cincinnati and St. Louis, however, were not yet in surrender modes, even in late September. The Cardinals were determined to win the pennant for Bing Devine, the popular general manager who had traded for Lou Brock just before the June 15 deadline but was fired in August, replaced by Bob Howsam. The Reds, meanwhile, wanted dearly to do something special for Fred Hutchinson, the intrepid manager who was overtaken that year by lung cancer and supplanted on Aug. 13 by Dick Sisler, the son of Hall of Famer George Sisler and the former Whiz Kid whose final-day home run had brought the Phillies their memorable pennant in 1950.

Of the two, the Reds seemed to attack the final weeks with a more inspired vengeance. When the teams met in a Sept. 19 doubleheader at Crosley Field -- where, in Pete Rose's second season, attendance averaged just over 10,000 a game -- Bob Gibson held a 5-0 lead in the opener, only to lose on Frank Robinson's 3-run, ninth-inning homer. The next day, the Reds came back from a 6-0 deficit to beat the Cardinals 9-6 and wrest second place from St. Louis.

But the Phillies still led by 6 ½ games when Cincinnati moved on to Philadelphia for a three-game series beginning Sept. 21. The home team's pitcher that night was Art Mahaffey of Western Hills High School. The Reds went with spot-starter John Tsitouris. The two toiled scorelessly into the sixth inning, when, with two outs and the great Robinson at bat, Chico ("bench me or trade me") Ruiz had the cockeyed idea to steal home. He made it. The game ended 1-0, and so, effectively, did Philadelphia's season.

Beginning with that unforgettable night, the Phillies would go on to lose 10 straight games, pulling off the most ignominious collapse in major-league history. Cincinnati almost simultaneously won nine in a row, taking over first place in New York by sweeping a doubleheader with the Mets for the second time in three days.

When they returned home for their final five games, the Reds were met at the airport by a happy throng of thousands, including Hutchinson, the raging, revered skipper who by then was fearfully thin. The Reds had watched their bearish leader deteriorate over the long summer, which was particularly hard for O'Toole.

"I had a special feeling for Hutch," the lefty said. "He was the one who really pulled us all together. When he became the manager, he gave me the ball every four days. From the middle of 1959 to the day he died, I was about 86-60.

"But halfway through the '64 season, he just couldn't do it anymore. One eye sagged down. His boy always wore the number 1 uniform like his dad, and he started limping just like his dad. How Hutch ever got to the airport to congratulate us was unbelievable."

The Pirates were in town, and on the next two nights, in front of crowds not much bigger than that which had stormed the airport, the Reds were shut out by first Bob Friend and then Bob Veale, who outlasted Jim Maloney in a 1-0, 16-inning struggle. But Cincinnati won the finale, starting the final weekend -- strangely, there was no game scheduled for Saturday -- a half-game behind St. Louis and two ahead of both San Francisco and Philadelphia. It was such a tangle that a four-way tie was conceivable.

The Reds, though, had grander ideas. "I think everybody felt like we had it done," said Joe Nuxhall. "The Phillies, in all honesty, were just saying, 'Hey, let's get it over with.' ''

And they played like it; at least for seven innings. O'Toole, the Reds' best pitcher and biggest winner that year, had them totally silenced with only six more outs to get, and as he knelt in the on-deck circle, was hoping his team would pad its three-run lead against Phillies left-hander Chris Short. That was when Short hit Leo Cardenas in the thigh with a slider.

With his bat still gripped, Cardenas took off, seething, toward the mound, at which point the anger shifted to the Philadelphia side. "That just lit them up," said Nuxhall. "After that, things went haywire for us."

O'Toole was uneasy about what Cardenas did, but it wasn't until the top of the eighth that his pique was directed squarely at the Cincinnati shortstop, who didn't bother to take ground balls while the club warmed up. Then, with one out, Frank Thomas hit an infield bloop that Cardenas made little attempt to catch.

"I don't know where he was at," O'Toole said, "but I was so frustrated to see that happen with so much on the line."

The frustration mounted when Sisler went to the bullpen for Billy McCool, leaving the lefty in to face right-handed rookie slugger Richie Allen. Allen's triple gave the Phillies a 4-3 lead that stood up.

In the clubhouse after the game, O'Toole had harsh words for Cardenas and shoved him up against a wall. Cardenas responded by pulling an ice pick on the Cincinnati pitcher. The Reds were unraveling.

In St. Louis, however, the Mets' Alvin Jackson was besting Gibson 1-0. New York won again Saturday, leaving the Reds and Cardinals tied heading into the final game, with the Phillies one back. The Giants had been eliminated Saturday.

Bunning started Sunday on two days' rest, but Maloney was still worn out from the 11 hard innings he had pitched against Pittsburgh. Sisler went instead with Tsitouris, who was not up to the occasion. The revitalized Phillies were all over Cincinnati, 10-0.

Even so, a three-way tie remained possible when the Cardinals trailed the Mets 3-2 in the middle innings. But after Gibson -- who hadn't slept after Friday's defeat -- rallied his team with four innings of gutsy, scoreless relief, St. Louis had won the pennant.

Or the Reds had lost it, perhaps needlessly. "When you wake up the sleeping dog, that's what happens," reflected O'Toole. "It was terrible that we couldn't win."

It was worse that, on November 12, Hutchinson died at the age of 45. The following year, his number was the first that the Reds retired.

On that day, much like this one and every final Friday for the past 40 baseball seasons, O'Toole was visited by the melancholy memory of 1964. He feels now what he felt then.

"We should have won it for Hutch," he said.


Publication Date: 10-01-2004

Ltlabner
08-07-2006, 11:59 AM
People read too much into a manager comments to the media. Those comments are filtered down to the point that they are often just PC throw-away lines because it would be inprudent or foolish to say what the manager is really thinking. Especially in personell matters what is said behind closed doors should never be made public so you often get sanitized or obscure versions of what really is going on.

I don't see anything wrong with what Narron said here because it's right. If we get swept it's not over (infinatley more difficult, yes, but not over). If we sweep them, it doesn't mean the players should start getting their division pennant rings made.

westofyou
08-07-2006, 12:01 PM
but Maloney was still worn out from the 11 hard innings he had pitched against Pittsburgh. Sisler went instead with Tsitouris, who was not up to the occasion. The revitalized Phillies were all over Cincinnati, 10-0.

The Reds pitchers drew straws to see who would get the start, Tsitouris lost.

O'Toole has said that if Hutch was there they would have won, but his abscence and Sisler's obvious lack of control helped lead to the tumble.

redsupport
08-07-2006, 12:09 PM
Alex Johnson, playing outfield for the Phils made a great play in that game or the Reds would have led by more than 3-0

RedsManRick
08-07-2006, 12:23 PM
Sounds like he doesn't want tob burn his guys out or press too much. He's right after all. If you win all 4 games, you still have nearly 2 months of ball to play. If you lose all 4 games, you still have nearly 2 months of ball to play. Every game is important, and you need focus in every game until the end of the season, not just in a given 4 game series.

Always Red
08-07-2006, 12:24 PM
JN is just trying not to put too much pressure on the team for this series.

Best case scenario- we're up a half game after this series.

Worst case scenario- 7 1/2 out from the Cards; but definitely NOT out of the race.

My prediction- a split, and the Reds season will be exciting all the way to the wire. Playoffs or not, it's sure been a heck of a lot better than the last 5 seasons have been, right?

redsmetz
08-07-2006, 12:33 PM
JN is just trying not to put too much pressure on the team for this series.

Best case scenario- we're up a half game after this series.

Worst case scenario- 7 1/2 out from the Cards; but definitely NOT out of the race.

My prediction- a split, and the Reds season will be exciting all the way to the wire. Playoffs or not, it's sure been a heck of a lot better than the last 5 seasons have been, right?

Very well stated. This will be a heckuva season regardless of how it ends. I like this club's direction.

toledodan
08-07-2006, 12:41 PM
my guess is we split this series. i just hope we don't make weaver look like cy young out there tonight. things could snowball real fast.

redsfan30
08-07-2006, 12:51 PM
Playoffs or not, it's sure been a heck of a lot better than the last 5 seasons have been, right?
No question.

MaineRed
08-07-2006, 12:55 PM
What should Narron say?

"if we lose all four, we know the season is over."

or

"if we win all four we're in."

Yeah, I'm sure either would go over real big, here.

BRM
08-07-2006, 01:06 PM
my guess is we split this series. i just hope we don't make weaver look like cy young out there tonight. things could snowball real fast.

I think they split as well. Although it certainly won't be easy as the Cards have a RHP starting every game.

Red Rover
08-07-2006, 01:11 PM
I think they split as well. Although it certainly won't be easy as the Cards have a RHP starting every game.

Yea, I was just looking up probable pitchers and saw that the Reds will face 5 right handers is a row. I sure hope that RA spends a decent amount of time on the bench over that stretch, as he hits RH pitching as well as my 6 year old.

Roy Tucker
08-07-2006, 01:14 PM
Stay on an even keel is what Jerry is saying. Let's not forget the finish to the 1964 season as recounted by Lonnie Wheeler a couple of years back:

I think this is a prudent thing for Narron to say. There is still 1/3 of the season to play. And I dare say it will come down to the last weekend.

1964 was the first season I was a Reds fan. I was 12 yrs old and going into 7th grade. We had just moved to Dayton, I had few friends, and a lot of spare time. So it was Ed Kennedy and Frank McCormick on channel 2 WLW-D on the tube and Waite Hoyt and Claude Sullivan on WHIO 1290 AM radio. They were my pals all summer long.

That season had looked like a cake-walk for the Phillies. In those days, it was a 10 team league with no divisions and no wild cards. You either won the NL to go on to the WS or stayed home. So pennant races tended to be death marches. And I lived and died with every win and loss.

The Phils had a 6.5 game lead with 12 games left. But then they lost 10 straight games and the Reds and Cards snuck back into it.

That last game was on a Sunday and my dad put 2 TVs side-by-side, one TV on the Reds game and one on the Browns game (the sound was on the Browns game). Tsitouris gave up 3 early runs and got yanked. The killer was the 6th inning. The Reds were down 4-0 but still had a heartbeat. But then Joey Jay gave up a bases-loaded single to Tony Gonzalez to score 2 runs and then an absolute freakin' dagger to the heart 3-run HR to Richie Allen (he wasn't Dick then). 9-zip and that was all she wrote. Phils won 10-0. I was disconsolate.

I still remember seeing that no-sound, black and white, grainy picture bases-loaded single rolling into left field and I said a really bad word. Normally that would have merited severe punishment from my dad, but that day he just said "yeah". And that year was the year I caught the Reds bug to which, still to this date in 2006, I haven't gotten the antidote for yet.

pedro
08-07-2006, 01:18 PM
that's a great story Roy. Thanks for sharing.

westofyou
08-07-2006, 01:21 PM
Roy.... please take some time and explain to the kids here what "Black and White TV" is.

redsmetz
08-07-2006, 01:35 PM
Oh, Roy, I'm sitting recognizing your pain and it's as fresh today 42 years later. And the story about "the word" and your dad's "yeah" in response and I'm sitting her laughing out loud.

It is a long season and such a thing requires keeping yourself focused. This is an important series, but it's not make or break and EVERY team must play out their schedule. All you can do is take care of your own game (another mantra of Narron's this season). And as well know from the '99 season, taking care of your own games is the most important thing. That's why losses like yesterdays (and we've probably got nearly 6-10 of those this season) are so painful. But that's over, let's play today's and see where the chips fall.

jmac
08-07-2006, 01:37 PM
If the Reds get swept, their season is all but over. But you sure as hell don't want your manager saying that or even hinting at that.
exactly !

jmac
08-07-2006, 01:41 PM
What should Narron say?

"if we lose all four, we know the season is over."

or

"if we win all four we're in."

Yeah, I'm sure either would go over real big, here.
:laugh: :laugh:

TOBTTReds
08-07-2006, 01:52 PM
What should Narron say?

"if we lose all four, we know the season is over."

or

"if we win all four we're in."

Yeah, I'm sure either would go over real big, here.

Why would he mention either. I think the correct response is "If we win all 4, that will be huge for us, but if we lose all 4, it would be very dissapointing"

He should never say "it doesn't matter":lastyear:

jmac
08-07-2006, 02:03 PM
Why would he mention either. I think the correct response is "If we win all 4, that will be huge for us, but if we lose all 4, it would be very dissapointing"

He should never say "it doesn't matter":lastyear:
we set back and read threads and have time to think of what our answer "should" be. mgrs and even players are put on spot sometimes and make statements , then we set back and dissect them.

TeamBoone
08-07-2006, 02:14 PM
I just read this article on Cincy.com and was outraged by Jerry Narron's comments. I was so glad to come here and find that a few of you agree.

I don't care what he was TRYING to convey, he did a very poor job. No, it's not the end of the season, but to say it doesn't matter is something entirely different. I don't think the players are stupid; they know it matters.

To me, he should be conveying to the team how much this series DOES matter. It's almost a total opposite of what he said to them in his big closed-door meeting the other day.

I am soooooo angry. So much so, that I sent the writer an email:


I'm very bothered by these Jerry Narron comments from your article:

Narron wants the fans to be excited even as he's trying to remain calm.

"If we win all four or lose all four it really doesn't matter," he said. "We've still got a month, month and a half to play. So it's not like the season is going to be won or lost here in the next (four) days. Far from it.

"If we win the next (four), next Friday I don't think any of us are going to pop the champagne. If we lose I don't think any of us will mail it in and say the season is over."


It sure as heck DOES matter... a lot. I certainly hope Jerry Narron is not conveying this lazy, it-doesn't-really-matter attitude to his players. I found these comments disgusting coming from the Reds manager. He should be telling them exactly how much these next four games (and the series in St. Louis) actually do matter, not just the opposite.

I wanted to use stronger language and say a whole lot more, but I refrained lest I be construed as a homicidal maniac.

redsmetz
08-07-2006, 02:18 PM
I just read this article on Cincy.com and was outraged by Jerry Narron's comments. I was so glad to come here and find that I'm not the only one.

I am soooooo angry. So much so, that I sent the writer an email:



I wanted to use stronger language and say a whole lot more, but I refrained lest I be construed as a homicidal maniac.


As someone said on some other thread with some hyperbole, "oh dear". Frankly I save my umbrage for something with significantly more importance such as poverty, world hunger, war, etc. But Jerry putting a season in perspective (perhaps with less than perfectly chosen words), I think I'll take them with a grain of salt.

TeamBoone
08-07-2006, 02:24 PM
Scott Hatteberg was more correct than Jerry Narron.... "We have to play good against these guys," first baseman Scott Hatteberg said. "You can gain a lot of ground or you can lose a lot of ground."

TeamBoone
08-07-2006, 02:25 PM
we set back and read threads and have time to think of what our answer "should" be. mgrs and even players are put on spot sometimes and make statements , then we set back and dissect them.

I didn't disect it. I was angry right away.

redsfan30
08-07-2006, 02:25 PM
So much so, that I sent the writer an email:
Respectfully, what good is that email going to do? He has absolutely no bearing on what comes out of Narron's mouth.

vic715
08-07-2006, 02:26 PM
Oh, Roy, I'm sitting recognizing your pain and it's as fresh today 42 years later. And the story about "the word" and your dad's "yeah" in response and I'm sitting her laughing out loud.

It is a long season and such a thing requires keeping yourself focused. This is an important series, but it's not make or break and EVERY team must play out their schedule. All you can do is take care of your own game (another mantra of Narron's this season). And as well know from the '99 season, taking care of your own games is the most important thing. That's why losses like yesterdays (and we've probably got nearly 6-10 of those this season) are so painful. But that's over, let's play today's and see where the chips fall.
That Friday night before loss to Philly still ranks as one of the hardest losses as a Reds fan that I've had.We get that one and We're no worse than a tie on the last day of the season.The day of that 10-0 loss on that final day of the season Tsitouris showed up at the park with his car packed to go home.To this day I wish Sisler would have given the ball to Nuxhall as he had been pitching better than Stitouris.
And for the record My dad bought a color tv 2 weeks before so I did see that 10-0 loss in color.

TeamBoone
08-07-2006, 02:31 PM
Respectfully, what good is that email going to do? He has absolutely no bearing on what comes out of Narron's mouth.

It lets a person with a door to the public know how at least one fan feels.

Ltlabner
08-07-2006, 02:40 PM
To me, he should be conveying to the team how much this series DOES matter. It's almost a total opposite of what he said to him in his big closed-door meeting the other day.

But that assumes that the team goes to the newspaper to get Narron's take on the importance of the serries. I highly doubt that they do, rather they listen to what he says to them in the clubhouse.

redsmetz
08-07-2006, 02:42 PM
I think Lonnie Wheeler gives a little perspective (lighthearted at that!) in today's Post:


Wild-card race lives up to name

Column by The Post's Lonnie Wheeler

Mediocrity is not essential to the concept of the wild card. There's the American League, for instance, in which the gratuitous postseason berth is being contested by the Boston Red Sox, Chicago White Sox and Minnesota Twins, which, combined - just as a point of reference, mind you - sport a cute little record of 46-8 against National League competition.

Over here, however, the spoils will go to the first team that can get Carlos Beltran out with the bases loaded. In the National League, the secret to keeping hope alive is to stay away from that pesky 44-game losing streak and, hey, look around you.

The St. Louis Cardinals, leading the NL Central, recently lost eight in a row without being seriously threatened by the second-place Reds, who were dropping five straight, which reduced them to a tie for the wild-card lead with the Arizona Diamondbacks. But not to worry. Cincinnati won the next night and was back on the beam.

We probably shouldn't even be talking about the wild card because, as many times this year as the Reds have looked like they didn't know a baseball from a bass drum, they still have a chance to catch the Cardinals as soon as this week, when St. Louis stumbles in for four games that are infinitely bigger than they ought to be.

"If you're going to focus on anything, it's the division," said Reds first baseman Scott Hatteberg. "That's right in front of you. The wild card is a fallback thing.

"We could be playing better, obviously, and to be in the situation we're in, I think it's good. I don't think we've played as consistently as we've needed to, but having said that, the league has been the same way. Everybody's evenly matched and the season's a funny thing and we're lucky, I guess."

Even after Sunday's late surrender to the Atlanta Braves - when the Reds turned to one reliever too many, specifically Gary Majewski - the playoffs are extending both hands to Jerry Narron's persevering and nicely positioned team. The Cardinals are begging to be beaten and, failing that, the wild card keeps sliding toward Cincinnati's side of the table.

It's a good thing for baseball and a better thing for the Reds. Bear in mind that the three clubs closest to them in the wild-card race - the Dodgers, Diamondbacks and Rockies - all play in that paragon of parity, the NL West, which means that they'll be swapping blown saves over the last two months of the season.

It's to the Reds' material advantage to traffic in the suffering NL Central. As the only division in baseball with six teams, the Central is mathematically the most difficult to win. This year's reality, though, is that the heartland division - sagging under the burden of the Pirates and Cubs - is substantially the worst in baseball. What's more, the Reds are favored by playing more games in it (84) than most of the wild-card contenders play in their divisions (75).

On the other hand, only once in the past five years has the team leading the National League wild-card standings on Aug. 1 - which the Reds were - actually made it to the postseason. That was last year, when the Central sent the Houston Astros all the way to the World Series.

Sunday's eighth-inning defeat, along with the Dodgers' ninth straight victory, reduced Cincinnati's wild-card spread to one game, and left nine teams within six lengths of them - most with losing records. It's a stunningly reluctant race, and one practically impossible to get out of. The competition is so captivating that the Reds are offering half-price tickets for the St. Louis series.

Nevertheless, it's real baseball deep into summer, a tradition that Cincinnati lost somewhere along the line and has forgotten how to deal with. The same cannot be said, however, for Reds shortstop Royce Clayton, who went to the postseason three times in the late '90s (with the Cardinals and Texas Rangers) and remembers what it takes.

"Just keep everything small," Clayton said Sunday, an example being the relative success of the Atlanta series, two games out of three. "That makes it easier. If you focus on the small, tangible things, the other things take care of themselves.

"In my experience, no matter what the deficit or lead is, it always comes down to the last couple weeks of the season. You just want to be ahead or right there with a chance to grab a championship."

Before obsessing over the St. Louis series, we would thereby be reminded that, over the final 22 games of the season, the Reds play six against the Pirates and seven against the Cubs. And how bad are they?

They're not even in the wild-card race. Can you imagine?

Roy Tucker
08-07-2006, 03:07 PM
It seems that Narron is trying to accomplish a few things:
1.) Not give the sense that this is an apocalyptic series, i.e. lose 4 and we are staring into the Abyss or win 4 and put it on cruise control.
2.) Not fire up the Cardinals. You see this in football all the time. Don't give the other team any bulletin board material.
3.) As a followup to last week's team meeting, you need to grind out each and every pitch, each and every at-bat, each and every inning, and each and every game. Don't let up, don't get all stupid, keep your nose to the grindstone, keep a laser-focus, and don't give away anything at all.

And I think it might have been the year after 1964 (i.e. 1965) when we got a color TV.

MartyFan
08-07-2006, 03:16 PM
Roy:

I agree...keep the kids loose...don't build it too much or more than it already is.

Can I just say again that this team was picked to finish LAST or NEXT TO LAST in our division.

We're not gonna finish last in the division but I won't be too disapointed.:D

TeamBoone
08-07-2006, 03:24 PM
Can I just say again that this team was picked to finish LAST or NEXT TO LAST in our division.

No, that was the OTHER Reds team that played this year. ;)

Though I don't think that team would have finished last either.

bounty37h
08-07-2006, 04:07 PM
If we win all four or lose all four it really doesn't matter," he said. "We've still got a month, month and a half to play. So it's not like the season is going to be won or lost here in the next (four) days. Far from it.

"If we win the next (four), next Friday I don't think any of us are going to pop the champagne. If we lose I don't think any of us will mail it in and say the season is over."

Words of wisdom from Jerry Narron.

I am not sure why so many seem to have a problem with this statement, sounds like a smart manager to me, not applying too much pressure right now, no situation of putting players in "if you win this, you are there, or if you lose it your done", seems to be level headed and aware of the big picture.

TeamBoone
08-07-2006, 04:19 PM
I am not sure why so many seem to have a problem with this statement, sounds like a smart manager to me, not applying too much pressure right now, no situation of putting players in "if you win this, you are there, or if you lose it your done", seems to be level headed and aware of the big picture.

The problem, as I see it, is that he's not applying ANY pressure. Instead, it's... if we do or if we don't, it's no big deal; it doesn't matter either way.

Ltlabner
08-07-2006, 04:23 PM
The problem, as I see it, is that he's not applying ANY pressure. Instead, it's... if we do or if we don't, it's no big deal; it doesn't matter either way.

But again, you are assuming that he has made no other communications to the team regarding the serriousness of this serries other than this one newspaper blurb.

The newspaper blurb is for the consuption of those who read the newspapers. That is, the fans.

The players hear direct commincation from the manager that is for their consuption. I highly doubt they scour the newspapers hopeing to gleam Narron's true intentions based off of newspaper quotes.

westofyou
08-07-2006, 04:25 PM
The problem, as I see it, is that he's not applying ANY pressure.

Maybe that's his approach?

Most baseball players know that they have to perform, throw in some vets and the message doesn't have to be an equal to having a piano falling on you.

Pressure comes out of the game, not a managers mouth.

MaineRed
08-07-2006, 04:50 PM
When I see a keg in the dugout, I'll start to worry that our boys are taking things too lightly.

If the Reds can't look at the standings and get themselves motivated to play, ANYONE, let alone the Cards, I don't know who we expect to do it for them. You can bring in Chris Farley's down by the river character from SNL and it probably wouldn't matter.

I don't think Narron is saying anything to the team. I've never been in a big league clubhouse but I don't believe the team meets on a day to day basis the way a basketball team would. Individually, yes but not as a team.

The last we heard of Narron speaking to the team, they won the next two games.

Give the guy a break. Everyone talks about how flawed the team WK has given Narron is but then they expect Narron to work miracles and call him a fool when his flawed team doesn't win.

It makes next to no sense.

redsmetz
08-07-2006, 05:10 PM
No, that was the OTHER Reds team that played this year. ;)

Though I don't think that team would have finished last either.

Argh! I forgot about the parallel universe!

Redhook
08-07-2006, 05:37 PM
What should Narron say?

"if we lose all four, we know the season is over."

or

"if we win all four we're in."

Yeah, I'm sure either would go over real big, here.

How about something that doesn't mention sweeping the Cards or getting swept? Something more along the lines of this would be better:

"Obviously, it's a big series. Every series within a division is big, especially against the first place team. We're looking forward to this series and we're excited to get it started. We WILL be ready to play."

Simple facts with a little confidence thrown in.

Generally, I don't think a manager's words in baseball have much influence on a game or series, if any, but that being that, I would really like to see our manager make stronger statements than the one mentioned in this article. It's very weak like he's trying to cover himself for a letdown either this week or later in the year.

DannyB
08-07-2006, 07:02 PM
Some people have a knack for speaking without actually SAYING anything.
I dont think Jerry has that but he tries,and ends up sounding off the wall.

MaineRed
08-07-2006, 07:14 PM
How about something that doesn't mention sweeping the Cards or getting swept? Something more along the lines of this would be better:

"Obviously, it's a big series. Every series within a division is big, especially against the first place team. We're looking forward to this series and we're excited to get it started. We WILL be ready to play."

I don't argue that it would be, better.

But is it going to make the difference between winning any games or losing?

My belief is no.

We could disect what everyone on the team says. Some guy yesterday said that Griffey should not be joking on WLW because he isn't as good as he used to be. One guy thinks Todd Coffey should stop running from the bullpen.

Griffey could seal his lips shut, Coffey could crawl in from the pen and Narron could check with us before speaking.

IMO, the Reds record, would be the same.

Ltlabner
08-07-2006, 07:32 PM
Generally, I don't think a manager's words in baseball have much influence on a game or series, if any, but that being that, I would really like to see our manager make stronger statements than the one mentioned in this article. It's very weak like he's trying to cover himself for a letdown either this week or later in the year.

Or could it be that Narron has more important things on his mind that trying to make statements to the media that satisfy the fans at large?

My guess is someone stuck a microphone in his face and asked him the question. He likely didn't have time to word out a snazzy sounding reply that would send all sorts of nuanced messages in the right direction. He responded off the top of his head.

I've been a pretty staunch Narron supporter but public speaking isn't a skill I'd give him credit for.

TeamBoone
08-07-2006, 08:03 PM
But again, you are assuming that he has made no other communications to the team regarding the serriousness of this serries other than this one newspaper blurb.

The newspaper blurb is for the consuption of those who read the newspapers. That is, the fans.

The players hear direct commincation from the manager that is for their consuption. I highly doubt they scour the newspapers hopeing to gleam Narron's true intentions based off of newspaper quotes.

I hear what you're saying, but I don't think it's a very good impression to be sending to the fans either.

rcb126
08-08-2006, 02:23 AM
It's almost as if he's trying to prepare the fans and the team for a bad series. Like he's worried how they'll take it when the Cards beat them in the series. His attitude needs to be that this is the Reds chance to make a statement and that they need to win each series no matter who the opponent is. Like it or not dealing with the media is part of every manager's job and players do get their clues from the manager's statements. I don't see him challenging his players to perform and to take it to the Cards with all they got. He seems more concerned with them getting down on themselves if they lose the series than he is on winning it.

WVRedsFan
08-08-2006, 03:13 AM
Stay on an even keel is what Jerry is saying. Let's not forget the finish to the 1964 season as recounted by Lonnie Wheeler a couple of years back:

I remember that 1964 season like it was yesterday. WLW (or WCKY--I forget which) kept proclaiming they were the home of the 1st place Reds. Everyone felt like they had it, but baseball is cruel.

That last day, I had to go visit relatives in Virginia and I wasn't a very good cousin and I ran out ot hte car every ten minutes to hear the progress of the game. It was tough to hear the pbp on a crackely AM station, but i got enough of it to know what was going on. I cried after it was over. My mother shamed me and my Dad took up for me. He was hurting as much as this 15-year old was.

As I look back on it, Hutch would have never said things like this. Just like Sparky or Lou or anyone else with one iota of success in their resume would. Folks, look long and hard at this whole situation. The attitude drifts down to the players.

MWM
08-08-2006, 03:21 AM
Of all the things to criticize a manager for, I have a hard time believing this is one of them. Narron's right about this series and I totally agree with his apporoach of not making it seem like the wolrd series to his players.

WVRedsFan
08-08-2006, 03:28 AM
Of all the things to criticize a manager for, I have a hard time believing this is one of them. Narron's right about this series and I totally agree with his apporoach of not making it seem like the wolrd series to his players.

And you are probably right. It's an emotional night.

But I still say you would never have heard this from the mouth of the three gentlemen I mentioned, right or wrong.

and let me say this. If Jerry Narron leads this team to the playoffs, I'll be the first to congratulate him and eat tons of crow. That's baseball, and if whatever he does leads to wins and championships, i'm all for it, but in my line of work attitude is everything. I don't see a winning attitude here at all.