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Ltlabner
08-07-2006, 09:35 PM
Ok,

Who is the worst team manager of all time?

Based on win/loss record, miss-management of players, surly attitude, poor personal hygene or whatever criteron you want to use.

If you want to attempt to be clever and say Jerry Narron please have something more to add to the discussion than "Narron sucks".

reds44
08-07-2006, 09:37 PM
Jerry Narron.

Narron sucks


;)

pedro
08-07-2006, 09:40 PM
I thought Dave Miley was as poor a manager as I've ever seen.

Terry Collins was pretty bad.

Plus that guy from Toronto who claimed he was in Vietnam. him too.

That's just off the top of my head though.

RedsBaron
08-07-2006, 09:41 PM
George Creamer. In 1884, he managed eight games for the Pittsburgh Alleghenys, and lost all eight.
If you want a minimum of ten games, then it is Malachi Kittridge of the 1904 Washington Senators, who went 1-16.

Always Red
08-07-2006, 09:42 PM
Maury Wills, Seattle Mariners (1980-81); 26w-56L

Did not have a clue.

"Baseball writer Rob Neyer criticized Wills in his Big Book of Baseball Blunders for "the variety and frequency of [his] mistakes" as manager, calling them "unparalleled." In a short interview appearing in the June 5, 2006 issue of Newsweek, Neyer said, "It wasn't just that Wills couldn't do the in-game stuff. Wills's inability to communicate with his players really sets him apart. He said he was going to make his second baseman, Julio Cruz, his permanent shortstop. Twenty-four hours later he was back at second base. As far as a guy who put in some real time, I don't think there's been anyone close to Wills."

RedsBaron
08-07-2006, 09:46 PM
Among managers who managed at least a thousand games, Jimmie Wilson has both the poorest percentage, .401, and his career mark of 493-735 makes him 242 games below .500.

RFS62
08-07-2006, 09:47 PM
Ted Turner

RedsBaron
08-07-2006, 09:59 PM
Ted Turner
He only lost once.;)

RedsBaron
08-07-2006, 10:02 PM
Bob Boone, Dave Miley and Vern Rapp are probably the three worst managers the Reds have had in the 40 years that I've been a Reds fan, with dishonorable mention to Don Heffner and Ray Knight.

KronoRed
08-07-2006, 10:03 PM
Bob Boone

Ravenlord
08-07-2006, 10:05 PM
Boone and Miley are the two worst in my memory. bad in game manuevering (especially Miley), and seemed to have no control in the club house.

Team Clark
08-07-2006, 10:13 PM
Bob Boone, Dave Miley, Gene Lamont, Lloyd McClendon, Jim Riggelman, Tom Browning (I just had to), Nick Leyva, Lee Elia and Tommy Helms.

MaineRed
08-07-2006, 10:18 PM
Dusty Baker

The man wears sweatbands.

Team Clark
08-07-2006, 10:27 PM
Dusty Baker

The man wears sweatbands.

True. That's an automatic 25 point deduction.

Cyclone792
08-07-2006, 10:32 PM
Lee Elia

Ya know, whenever I get angry at Cubs fans, Cubs players, the Cubs themselves or anything relating to the Cubs, I always pull out the infamous Lee Elia press conference tirade. To me, that press conference is a symbol of everything Cubs related.

It's nothing but pure joy and laughter all around!

RedFanAlways1966
08-07-2006, 10:32 PM
Ted Williams?
> 273-364 (.429)

Honus Wagner?
> 1-4 (.250)

Chicken Wolf?!?
> 14-51 (.215)... 1889, Louisville (Amer. Assoc.)

:D

TOBTTReds
08-07-2006, 10:43 PM
Miley....Narron

Dusty Baker is right up there too, then Lloyd Carr (whoops, wrong sport)

goreds2
08-07-2006, 10:49 PM
I liked Russ Nixon but: (He finished last every year he managed)

Year League Team Age G W L WP Finish
+----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
1982 NL West Cincnnti 47 70 27 43 .386 6
1983 NL West Cincnnti 48 162 74 88 .457 6

1988 NL West Atlanta 53 121 42 79 .347 6
1989 NL West Atlanta 54 161 63 97 .394 6
1990 NL West Atlanta 55 65 25 40 .385 6

BoomerSoonerRed
08-07-2006, 11:40 PM
I hate to mention his name, because he was one of my favorite players, but Buddy Bell. How does this guy get hired not once, not twice but THREE times by major league clubs? Granted, the teams that he did manage were not world-beaters, but if you have Buddy Bell in your dugout, chances are you are pretty much going nowhere.

cincrazy
08-08-2006, 12:10 AM
Bob Boone is one of the nicest guys you could ever meet. But that guy has got to be one of the worst manager's to ever grace a dugout.

Dunner44
08-08-2006, 12:16 AM
You'd think with a nickname like "The Professor" you'd make some smart moves every now and again...

vic715
08-08-2006, 01:01 AM
Don Heffner was without a doubt the worse MGR of my era. Dick Sisler isn't far behind.Boone and Miley are right in between.

MWM
08-08-2006, 01:06 AM
Worst manager I've ever seen was Jimy Williams. You could always count on him to due at least one thing every game that had you scratching your head.

Other than that, I'd have to say Boone and McClendon.

Razor Shines
08-08-2006, 01:12 AM
Dusty Baker

The man wears sweatbands.
I've said it before Dusty doesn't realize he is the manager, he thinks he's still on the team. That's why it takes so long for him to take his pitcher's out. He's always looking around going "when are we going to take this guy out? He's getting crushed.......What, me? Fine I'll take him out if no one else will."

westofyou
08-08-2006, 01:21 AM
Jim Davenport, worst I ever had to watch up close. Jackie Moore comes close.

Jpup
08-08-2006, 06:08 AM
I'm not really sure how anyone can think that Narron is any great shakes except that he has lead a last place team to second place in one of the worst divisions in baseball. Is he the worst that I've ever watched, no, but he's not all that special. I really don't see anything that sets him apart from Dave Miley. I think it's just playing musical chairs and Narron got the last seat. I have to think the Reds could do better.

Anyone that doesn't call for a bunt, while trailing by one run in the ninth inning and a man on second with no outs, is suspect IMO. Narron has, at least, once.

redsmetz
08-08-2006, 06:23 AM
Among managers who managed at least a thousand games, Jimmie Wilson has both the poorest percentage, .401, and his career mark of 493-735 makes him 242 games below .500.

But his two years off between managing the Phillies and the Cubs were doozies - he played a bit on the Reds two championship teams. IIRC, he was a coach who came back to play back up catcher after Willard Hershberger committed suicide.

RedsBaron
08-08-2006, 07:06 AM
But his two years off between managing the Phillies and the Cubs were doozies - he played a bit on the Reds two championship teams. IIRC, he was a coach who came back to play back up catcher after Willard Hershberger committed suicide.
In that 1940 World Series, Wilson, age 40, hit .353 and even had a stolen base.

chicoruiz
08-08-2006, 08:38 AM
In his Book of Baseball Managers, Bill James nominates Fred Haney's work with the 1959 Braves as the worst managerial job of all time. Haney had at his disposal Hank Aaron, Eddie Matthews and Warren Spahn, all of whom rank as among the best players ever at their positions. He also had a number of other all-star caliber players: Lew Burdette, Joe Adcock, Del Crandall, Bob Buhl, Bill Bruton, Johnny Logan, etc. He managed to lose the pennant to a Dodger team whose best players were Charlie Neal and Wally Moon.

I'd have to say Don Heffner was the worst I've ever personally witnessed.

ChaseReds
08-08-2006, 10:06 AM
I would have to say:

Lave Cross and Joe Quinn of the 1899 Cleveland Spiders

Record:
20-134 (.130)

Lave Cross' Record:
Wins:8
Losses:30
WP: .211

Joe Quinn's Record:
Wins:12
Losses:104
WP: .103

Joe's total WP for his entire career is:

Wins:23
Losses: 132
WP: .148

westofyou
08-08-2006, 10:08 AM
1899 Cleveland Spiders

That's what happens when your owner takes half the team to St. Louis.. because he also owns them.

Raisor
08-08-2006, 10:14 AM
Any Mariner manager before Lou.

RedsBaron
08-08-2006, 10:21 AM
In his Book of Baseball Managers, Bill James nominates Fred Haney's work with the 1959 Braves as the worst managerial job of all time. Haney had at his disposal Hank Aaron, Eddie Matthews and Warren Spahn, all of whom rank as among the best players ever at their positions. He also had a number of other all-star caliber players: Lew Burdette, Joe Adcock, Del Crandall, Bob Buhl, Bill Bruton, Johnny Logan, etc. He managed to lose the pennant to a Dodger team whose best players were Charlie Neal and Wally Moon.

I'd have to say Don Heffner was the worst I've ever personally witnessed.
I have a copy of James's book, which I really enjoyed (I used it for info in some of my posts on this thread).
Managers can only do so much, and they have much less power now than they did in the days of John McGraw and Connie Mack; McGraw and Mack totally ran their teams (Mack owned his) and there was no free agency for players in those days. Managers no longer have as much power over their players.
Most fans, me included, like to question game decisions by managers and lineup decisions, and certainly recent Reds managers have given us much to question, but those decisions probably only affect the outcome of very few games (admittedly the 2006 Reds are not the 1976 Reds and cannot afford to give away even one game).
Possibly more important than a manager's game decisions are his abilities to motivate players and lead his team. One reason I rank Heffner and Miley at the bottom of the lists of Reds managers is that they apparently totally lost control of their clubhouse and were not respected by their players. That said, even the best managers have trouble staying in control.
True or not, some sources tried to justify the firing of Sparky Anderson after the 1978 season by asserting that he had lost some respect in the clubhouse; I always questioned that, especially since the Reds had a much better record in 1978 than their runs scored/runs given up warranted.
In his book, Bill James noted that most managers tend to become less effective over time.

Puffy
08-08-2006, 10:27 AM
Bob Boone - and I thought that before he ever managed a single game for the Reds.

dfs
08-08-2006, 10:38 AM
I'm a little shocked that nobody has brought up Ray Knight. Knight ran off talent and was completly unable to communicate with the front office. He took a playoff caliber organization and ran it into the ground. He ran his bullpen about as poorly as Narron runs his and Knight juggled his lineup as much as Bob Boone.

Boone's results where so bad that I'm tempted to name him as worst over Knight, but I can imagine a world where Bob Boone was a successfull manager. If he would just tone things down a few degrees and let go a bit. He would need a front office that had very, very good scouts that he trusted and a GM that would keep him in line.

I can't imagine a world where Ray Knight was a successfull manager.

Wheelhouse
08-08-2006, 11:15 AM
Bob Boone, without a doubt. Never managed a team over .500, even in the minors. Not only did he run his teams into the ground, he hurt them after he left by destroying their young pitchers. Refused to bench his son, the most horrific free-swinger in the league when he was approaching the Mendoza line for a good long time. And he's not the nicest guy you could ever meet. Nice guys are not egomanics who must have their presence shown in a game by tinkering.

redsupport
08-08-2006, 11:21 AM
Heffner was the man, I remeber in 1966, there was a twelve game losing streak punctuated by Joe Nuxhall giving up a two run homerun to Tom Haller tolose a game to SF 7-6 or 807, then Dave Bristol was hired

westofyou
08-08-2006, 11:35 AM
Heffner was the man, I remeber in 1966, there was a twelve game losing streak punctuated by Joe Nuxhall giving up a two run homerun to Tom Haller tolose a game to SF 7-6 or 807, then Dave Bristol was hired

Heffner was DeWitt crony. DeWitt bought the Browns with his brother and some rich folks in the late 30's. The rich folks bailed and the DeWitts were left with a crappy team and one major assett (the ballpark, which they rented to the Cards) Heff was a former Yankee, that was some serious cache to the Brownies, they were rather close in age for a GM and player that led to a lifetime relationship that cumulated with Heff getting the Reds job as a surprise choice.

It sucks when you have to fire you friend and major part of it is because you banked on Deron Johnson to replace Frank Robinson.

redsupport
08-08-2006, 11:41 AM
Deron was a major fleece from the Yanks and did ok as an rbi man for a while. Of course Deron forgot to tell robinson, that robinsons biological clock was accelerating, and Dewitt the walking chronometer, averred that Robinson was antediluvian

MaineRed
08-08-2006, 12:17 PM
Nobody has mentioned Davey Lopes. The guy who complained when managing the Brewers about someone (I think Barry Bonds) stealing a base with a 7 run lead in the 4th or 5th inning.

Lopes went on and on and on about it to the media about the unwritten baseball rule that you don't do that stuff with that big of a lead.

I remember the guy who stole the base being like, "it was the 5th inning."

The greatest thing ever was later that day after his ridiculous outburst that all but said you are supposed to quit when up or down by 7, out on the West Coast I believe, someone came back from 8 or 9 down.

Face.

BoydsOfSummer
08-08-2006, 03:12 PM
Me. My Modern Alternative Baseball League Reds team is 43-67.:D