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View Full Version : The next 10 days will tell if this team has a leader or not



George Foster
08-08-2006, 12:14 AM
I think to win in August and September, during a race for the division and the wild card, you have to have a true leader on the team. Who is the Greg Vaughn on this team? I got to spend a afternoon a few weeks ago, with Eddie Taubensee. I ask him about Greg Vaughn. He said he was not afraid to call a player out, or take him aside and give him encourgement. He said that players were not really afraid of him, but you did not want to piss him off by not playing hard or not taking the game seriously. Eddie said several times he called player only meetings and got the team focused again, or told them not to get "to up" after a couple of wins. This team will not pull it together without someone stepping up and taking charge.

I like seeing emotion. I would like to see someone just throw something in the dugout.. I mean a veteran, like Griffey or Aurilla. I don't see it happening, but I hope I'm wrong. We have 50 games left. We need to go 30-20 to win the wild card. Let's hope someone steps up.

Johnny Footstool
08-08-2006, 12:26 AM
Aurilia seems like a "me first" type, so I doubt he'd be the one calling a team meeting.

Griffey never has been a vocal, rah-rah type leader. He seems like the type who would rather inspire by playing well than by talking.

RedsMan3203
08-08-2006, 12:33 AM
For my point of view its gotta be either.

1. Jason LaRue - He has been here with the Reds... He has hardly seen a winning season ... Even thou he isn't playing much... He can step up and get the team fired up.

2. Scottie Hatteberg... He has been there done that type of player... He knows what it takes to win with his days in Oak-Town.

3. Arroyo.... He has played in the post season.. he has played when it counts t he most....

Falls City Beer
08-08-2006, 12:38 AM
I think this team is giving it their all. I can't fault them on that for a moment.

KronoRed
08-08-2006, 03:36 AM
Dunn could beat anyone up on the team, he should do the threating ;)

Johnny Footstool
08-08-2006, 09:52 AM
Dunn could beat anyone up on the team, he should do the threating ;)

He's the muscle, the guy who stands in the corner quitely staring at you and chewing on a handful of nails while the Godfather talks.

Big Klu
08-08-2006, 11:37 AM
Aurilia seems like a "me first" type, so I doubt he'd be the one calling a team meeting.

How do you figure? I could definitely see him being the one to call them together.

I could see LaRue, Hatteberg, Aurilia, or Griffey being the guy (and probably some combination of the four). Arroyo could also chime in from the pitchers' viewpoint.

vaticanplum
08-08-2006, 11:39 AM
I don't think they're lacking in leaders, actually. I think they're lacking in pitchers. Good ones, anyway.

CrackerJack
08-08-2006, 11:42 AM
I don't think they're lacking in leaders, actually. I think they're lacking in pitchers. Good ones, anyway.

True, although didn't they score just 1 run last night off of Weaver?

Brutal.

vaticanplum
08-08-2006, 11:45 AM
True, although didn't they score just 1 run last night off of Weaver?

Brutal.

I am choosing to view this as an anamoly (known in some circles as "denial"). I mean, certainly on paper this team is capable of scoring more than one run in almost any game, let alone in a game featuring Jeff Weaver.

Actually, for anyone who was watching the game: did he have unusually nasty stuff, a weirdly good night, or was our offense just having a really bad one?

dabvu2498
08-08-2006, 11:45 AM
Quote from Jim Leyland in December:

DALLAS -- Jim Leyland has heard enough about the need for players to step up and provide leadership. He has a better idea.
"I don't buy that," he told reporters Tuesday at baseball's Winter Meetings. "I'm supposed to be the leader. That's why they hired me. I can tell you who the leaders are on the team. They're the guys who hit .330, hit 30 home runs and knock in 140 runs.

"I've never seen a guy hit .200 who was a leader yet. A leader's a guy who shuts the other team down when he pitches and knocks in big runs and gets two-out base hits. Those are the guys who are leaders, to me."

Leyland doesn't buy the notion that the Tigers clubhouse is in need of repair or that it's a ship adrift. In fact, he believes chemistry will be the least of his problems. To Leyland, clubhouse spats stem from expectations not met and losses piling up. He's not going to make too much of it next spring, and he doesn't want to get in the blame game on what happened before he got here.

"It's a better team than what it showed last season, and it certainly wasn't Alan Trammell's fault," Leyland said. "What happened to this team last year, in my opinion, is a team that came out of Spring Training with pretty high expectations, that got to a certain point in the season and realized they couldn't reach those expectations, and everything went to [pieces]. That's what I think happened.

"All of a sudden the clubhouse wasn't as great as everybody wanted it to be. But there's a lot of teams that go through that. When a team realizes it's not going to meet expectations [and] it gets closer to the end of the season, it's easy to start pointing the finger. It's easy to get irritable. It's easy to blame somebody else. And I think a little bit of that happened."

That's not simply what Leyland's experience tells him. It's also his knowledge of people. He prides himself on being able to get through to players and figure out "what makes them tick," in his words. He has talked with some players over the phone since he was hired, but not many. The first words many Tigers will receive from him will be a letter he plans to send out shortly, outlining his expectations and what he thinks is important to create a winning formula.


http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051206&content_id=1277549&vkey=news_det&fext=.jsp&c_id=det

oregonred
08-09-2006, 03:49 AM
Maybe it's Freel...

KronoRed
08-09-2006, 03:58 AM
He's the muscle, the guy who stands in the corner quitely staring at you and chewing on a handful of nails while the Godfather talks.
Freel the Godfather, Dunn the muscle, JR the consigliere? ;)

MaineRed
08-09-2006, 06:41 AM
I like seeing emotion. I would like to see someone just throw something in the dugout.. I mean a veteran, like Griffey or Aurilla. I don't see it happening, but I hope I'm wrong. We have 50 games left. We need to go 30-20 to win the wild card. Let's hope someone steps up.

Aaron Harrang?

He has proved to be a stopper. And he apparently showed this emotion in the dugout last Friday in his conversation with the bat rack.

The other leader is Grif, even if he says nothing. Guys follow his lead and look to him to come up big. Nice to see him swinging a hotter bat.

37red
08-09-2006, 09:30 AM
Freel's the leader and inspiration that keeps everyone charging. Phillips keeps the fun in the game and Griffey gives them stature. I think Griffey has even picked up some intensness from Freel and the smell of a possible playoff birth. This is starting to have that unlikely here we come feeling of "99". When no one thought it was even close to possible but you kept getting that rush of being only one game away. Other teams were jealous of the thrill the Reds were having everytime they came closer to nearly pulling it off. I remember McGuire being interviewed after the game once and pointing to the Reds saying that's where you want to be.

Far East
08-09-2006, 11:28 AM
I think Griffey has even picked up some intensness from Freel and the smell of a possible playoff birth.
I guess everyone noticed what appeared to be Griffey's "extra" hustle or at least speed in Tuesday's game. Once while scoring from second base on a single (by Aurilia?). Another on the tag and advance on the foul fly down the right field line, and another on his attempt to beat out a relatively close call on an infield grounder. The guy can still run.

It's probably human nature for a superstar to conserve energy over a long season by not sprinting to first base on what looks like an obvious sure out, but Freel's 100% all of the time could tend to put anybody to shame, including a superstar.

VR
08-09-2006, 11:44 AM
I found Leyland's comments interesting. For the most part, I agree. I do think the need is there for leadership among the players as well, if nothing more than to affirm the manager's program.....or question the manager's program on the player's behalf as a respected veteran. It's when he's having to lead because of a disconnected manager that problems arise organizationally.


Scott Hatteberg is someone who has really impressed with his work ethic and intensity. I'm not sure if he's the vocal type, but he has to have players respect.....if for nothing more that his overachievement based on his physical liabilities. The guy has simply outworked and outsmarted the opponents this year on his road to success. I'd hope that could be something EE, BP and even Dunn could aspire to.
I'm still greatly impressed by his comment a month or so ago when asked what it will take for the Reds to stay in the playoff hunt all year. "Mental Toughness". Something the Reds have lacked for years.

From a pitching standpoint, I like Guardardo's fire, and Arroyo's passion and experience on the big stage.

Puffy
08-09-2006, 11:46 AM
Dammit - Red Leader is on vacation for these ten days.

Redszone is screwed, screwed I say!

Highlifeman21
08-11-2006, 01:28 PM
For my point of view its gotta be either.

1. Jason LaRue - He has been here with the Reds... He has hardly seen a winning season ... Even thou he isn't playing much... He can step up and get the team fired up.
2. Scottie Hatteberg... He has been there done that type of player... He knows what it takes to win with his days in Oak-Town.

3. Arroyo.... He has played in the post season.. he has played when it counts t he most....

After his excitement, or lack thereof, over the Ross WOH, LaRue has stepped to the head of the pouting class. Just b/c the guy took your job doesn't mean you can't sincerely be happy for him b/c he helped the team win...

I would love to see a guy who's been here for the duration step up and be a leader, and LaRue would have been the best choice. I think Hatteberg and Arroyo are too new to the team to legitimately step up and offer the leadership we need.

Paging Ken Griffey Jr. Paging Ken Griffey Jr. Mr. Griffey, you're needed in the Reds Clubhouse...

Phil in BG
08-11-2006, 02:14 PM
I think this team is giving it their all. I can't fault them on that for a moment.

I agree this team gives all it has....at least since the team meeting a short time ago. I just don't understand why they do so well against the better pitchers and so poorly against the not so good pitchers. They seem to make the mediocre or struggling pitchers look like all-stars.

I would like to see a player step up and really fire them up though. Ryan Freel seems to do that with his play, but I'd love to hear someone really got fired up in the club house.

KronoRed
08-11-2006, 05:03 PM
Dammit - Red Leader is on vacation for these ten days.

Redszone is screwed, screwed I say!
If we win 7 of 10 then RL has to go back on vacation

penantboundreds
08-11-2006, 05:08 PM
Griff and Freal have become this team's leader...in my opinion