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vaticanplum
08-10-2006, 03:10 AM
Pretty fair article, I'dd say. About ticket sales and reaction to the Reds' success for the relatively uninnitiated:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/10/sports/baseball/10reds.html

As usual, Arroyo impressess me iwth his straightforeard, pretty non-nonsense quotes.

going to sleep now.

Jpup
08-10-2006, 06:21 AM
thanks for posting.

RedFanAlways1966
08-10-2006, 09:03 AM
By TODD JONES

I guess the pitching job in Detroit isn't making ends meet. Has to moonlight as a writer at The NY Times to pay the bills. I guess he knows something about Cincy since he spent time there.

smith288
08-10-2006, 09:26 AM
Todd Jones does moonlight as a writer though I dont know if this is the same one.

Johnny Footstool
08-10-2006, 10:42 AM
10th in Batting Average?

Wow. The Reds offense IS terrible. How can they possibly score runs while being 10th in the all-important category of Batting Average?

Kc61
08-10-2006, 11:33 AM
10th in Batting Average?

Wow. The Reds offense IS terrible. How can they possibly score runs while being 10th in the all-important category of Batting Average?

Actually, as I posted the other day, the team is first in NL in OPS, second in OBP, yet only 6th in scoring runs. (Haven't updated this in last couple of days.) I think the offense would score more runs with a couple of additional high batting average hitters in the mix.

LincolnparkRed
08-10-2006, 11:34 AM
I really like how Todd got to work in a few comments saying the reds season will ultimately go for naught because of the Mets juggernaut. After playing them 7 times I wouldn't put any money down on the health of that rotation come playoff time.

ochre
08-10-2006, 11:44 AM
Actually, as I posted the other day, the team is first in NL in OPS, second in OBP, yet only 6th in scoring runs. (Haven't updated this in last couple of days.) I think the offense would score more runs with a couple of additional high batting average hitters in the mix.
Sprinkling some OPS dogs like Clayton, Castro and a couple of others in as regulars might contribute to that as well...

2001MUgrad
08-10-2006, 11:47 AM
Thats what years of bad a bad relationship between the front office and the fans can do to a team. If this team makes the post season this year and makes a couple of moves in the off-season I could see attendance up around 33-35,000 next year. Its going to take Bob and Wayne a little while to get over what Jimbo and Lindner did. It also wouldn't hurt to get rid of Jon Allen too, while you are starting from a fresh approach.

dabvu2498
08-10-2006, 12:02 PM
Sprinkling some OPS dogs like Clayton, Castro and a couple of others in as regulars might contribute to that as well...
Castro's OPS since coming over: .853.

ochre
08-10-2006, 12:09 PM
Castro's OPS since coming over: .853.
Just names of the top of my head. He's a career out machine though.

Roy Tucker
08-10-2006, 12:26 PM
"Krivsky has traded for six relief pitchers since July 6. His 11 trades in six months — overhauling nearly half the roster — is two more deals than Dan O’Brien, his predecessor, made in 27 months."

Wayne has been a busy boy.

ochre
08-10-2006, 12:30 PM
Wayne has been a busy boy.
O'Brien was a practitioner of wu wei.

dabvu2498
08-10-2006, 12:37 PM
Just names of the top of my head. He's a career out machine though.
LaRue (.620) and Valentin (.616) would have been more appropriate examples for the argurment you were trying to make.

ochre
08-10-2006, 12:38 PM
LaRue (.620) and Valentin (.616) would have been more appropriate examples for the argurment you were trying to make.
and until a week or so ago, Griffey. :)

Like I said, it was off the top of my head. Forgive me for remembering the 2k ABs of ~.600 ops over the last 53 :)

TeamBoone
08-10-2006, 02:03 PM
I couldn't read the article.

kheidg-
08-10-2006, 03:24 PM
Todd Jones does moonlight as a writer though I dont know if this is the same one.

Todd Jones (the pitcher) writes for Sporting News. The guy who wrote this article is a different Todd Jones.

Mario-Rijo
08-10-2006, 04:09 PM
“It speaks a lot about their commitment,” Krivsky said of the ownership adding more than $2 million in payroll in recent trades. “They see we’re in the hunt and they’re backing us up.”



Just put that figure in your back pocket for later discussion. I think when Castellini agreed to add payroll if we were in contention, 2 mill isn't exactly what anyone had in mind. Of course I will say that the attendance has been poor and they likely could not afford to add much more than that.

KronoRed
08-10-2006, 06:00 PM
Thanks for pointing this article out vatican :clap:

Rojo
08-10-2006, 07:15 PM
Actually, as I posted the other day, the team is first in NL in OPS, second in OBP, yet only 6th in scoring runs. (Haven't updated this in last couple of days.) I think the offense would score more runs with a couple of additional high batting average hitters in the mix.

I think this is right. I mean we even have speed!

Chip R
08-10-2006, 08:18 PM
Who Needs a Heart When a Heart Can Be Broken?

By TODD JONES

Published: August 10, 2006

Like something from Mark Twain's imagination, the big, red paddle wheel on the Mississippi Queen slowly churned through the muddy Ohio River, just beyond the right-field seats of the Great American Ball Park in Cincinnati.

The old wooden riverboat eased downstream at the same slow pace that Reds fans were filing into the park Monday to watch the beginning of their team's most meaningful August series in seven years.

Baseball's oldest franchise, the proud and stodgy Reds, offered half-cost tickets in 10 sections and $1 hot dogs as a promotion to fill the seats, but they were still 8,000 below capacity for the first of four games against the St. Louis Cardinals, the leaders of the National League Central. (Tuesday night's game did better, drawing a crowd of 40,094, and last night's game attracted 41,649 fans.)

Cincinnati's tepid response to its surprisingly successful team — the Reds began the St. Louis series ranked 22nd in baseball in attendance with an average home crowd of 26,532 — is a reflection of the cynicism encasing the team after five consecutive losing seasons and no postseason berths since 1995.

"It's almost like the fans here are saying, 'We won't build you up because you'll let me down,'" said pitcher Bronson Arroyo, who joined the Reds in a trade from the Boston Red Sox during spring training. "There's a natural reaction that it'll implode."

Inherent skepticism here is coupled with the general ineptitude of the N.L., not including the Mets. The combination provides savvy Cincinnati fans with enough reasons to pause before giving their heart to a team that began the week three and a half games behind St. Louis in the Central and leading the wild-card race. The Reds cut the lead to two and a half games last night after defeating the Cardinals, 8-7, and have won two of three games in the series.

There is a smoke-and-mirrors feel to the Reds, whose flaws — they ranked 10th in the N.L. in batting average, 11th in earned run average and 13th in fielding percentage entering last night's game — are similar to the league's other so-called contenders, including St. Louis.

"I can't remember this many clubs being this streaky, both good and bad," Reds Manager Jerry Narron said. "The word parity could definitely be used."

The Los Angeles Dodgers had reeled off 11 consecutive victories before last night's game to challenge Cincinnati in a wild-card race that resembles a county fair demolition derby. Arizona, Colorado, Philadelphia, Houston and San Francisco still have postseason aspirations despite hovering at or below .500.

"It'll be that way for the next two months," Cardinals Manager Tony La Russa said. "Whoever pitches from here to the end is going to have a chance to win this thing."

The N.L.'s mass of mediocrity contrasts sharply with the American League wild-card race among Boston, Minnesota and the defending world champion Chicago White Sox. Those teams combined to finish 46-8 against the N.L. this season during interleague play.

Questions about the Reds' long-term staying power could be answered shortly as they are in the midst of seven games against the Cardinals in an 11-day span, including three next week in St. Louis.

"We know the Cardinals have not had as good of a year as everyone thought they would," Arroyo said. "They've given us every opportunity to win this thing. It's up to us. If we don't get the job done, it's our own fault."

St. Louis started the season strongly, with a 34-20 record that was fueled by the majestic play of the league's reigning most valuable player, Albert Pujols, and the glow of the new Busch Stadium. The Cardinals began descending when Pujols missed 15 games because of a strained right oblique muscle sustained June 3.

Although Pujols returned from the disabled list June 22 and quickly returned to form, the Cardinals staggered through the summer heat, erratic and sloppy, with last year's N.L. Cy Young award winner, Chris Carpenter, their only consistent starting pitcher.

The Cardinals recently endured their second eight-game losing streak, something that had not happened to them twice in a season since 1983. Until this year, no team in major league history had two eight-game losing streaks and remained in first place.

"We've done more good things than bad," La Russa said.

"We're in a position to get to October. Getting to Aug. 1 with a chance to be in contention was our priority."

The Cardinals' inconsistency has allowed Cincinnati to unexpectedly nip at the spikes of their divisional rivals. So, too, has an uncharacteristically aggressive approach by the Reds' new ownership and management.

"They're trying to make this team competitive not just for this year, but for years to come," Reds center fielder Ken Griffey Jr. said.

When Robert Castellini, a local businessman, purchased majority ownership of the Reds with two partners in January from the Cincinnati tycoon Carl Lindner, they took over a musty franchise that had only two winning records in the previous 10 seasons.

Cincinnati's miserly ways under Lindner, despite moving into a new $280 million tax-funded ballpark in 2003, also eroded the team's relationship with its hometown.

Castellini hired Wayne Krivsky as the general manager in February, and he set the tone in spring training by trading outfielder Wily Mo Peña for a much-needed starter in Arroyo.

"That said we were committed to winning," Griffey said.
Arroyo and Aaron Harang stabilized a starting rotation that was baseball's worst a year ago and helped the Reds to a 23-12 start. Bullpen woes have torpedoed the momentum, but, unlike previous years, ownership has allowed Krivsky to seek ways to avoid sinking.

Krivsky has traded for six relief pitchers since July 6. His 11 trades in six months — overhauling nearly half the roster — is two more deals than Dan O'Brien, his predecessor, made in 27 months.

"It speaks a lot about their commitment," Krivsky said of the ownership adding more than $2 million in payroll in recent trades. "They see we're in the hunt and they're backing us up."

Of course, in the woeful N.L., almost every team is still in the hunt, even if the Mets are expected to show in October that the chase was for nothing but fool's gold

Highlifeman21
08-11-2006, 02:17 PM
There is a smoke-and-mirrors feel to the Reds

Thank you Todd Jones for pointing out the obvious with Jerry Narron.

Hopefully for the next 2 nights at least, Narron will have a lot of smoke, and a great mirror.

Here's to a great series with the Broad Street Babies! :beerme: