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reds1869
08-10-2006, 11:18 AM
C'mon, we rip him all the time, and rightly so. But he deserves kudos for pushing all the right buttons the past several nights. When we lose there are a million "Narron stinks" threads, but I didn't see one thread praising him on Reds Live last night or this morning. It works both ways and the guy deserves some credit when we win. He went for it all last night and I loved it. He is playing for our division, not the wild card. Now if he would just bench Clayton...

KalDanielsfan
08-10-2006, 11:19 AM
marshall sucks..so does narron.

2001MUgrad
08-10-2006, 11:22 AM
I'll say this. He has seemed to pull the right triggers with the use of the bullpen in individual matchups lately. He didn't have that luxury earlier on in the year.

MississippiRed
08-10-2006, 11:26 AM
I don't really consider myself a Narron basher, but have been frustrated with some of his decisions.

Last night, I was very pleased with Narron. When Aurilla walked, Ben (my son) and I looked at each other and said, "Let's run Deno." Narron did. Then in the 9th, we were worried that he would let Clayton hit but he used Valentin. (Of course, that move didn't work out so well, but it was still the right move.) I said, "He may be finally starting to get it."

The attitude toward Narron was helped a lot by playing EdE against a right-hander and letting Aurilla sit and his use of the bullpen last night. Let's hope he keeps this up.

Michael

redsmetz
08-10-2006, 11:33 AM
I did see a couple of props in other threads. I think this roster is solidifying in a way that gives Narron loads of options. It's not always going to be perfect, but things seem to be running on all cylinders right now.

guttle11
08-10-2006, 11:37 AM
I say this one has a very good shot to reach 3 whole pages.

Jr's Boy
08-10-2006, 11:43 AM
A great managed game by Jerry Narron,now lets hope there's more of these to follow.I shudder to think what Miley would have done last night.

Matt700wlw
08-10-2006, 12:03 PM
C'mon, we rip him all the time, and rightly so. But he deserves kudos for pushing all the right buttons the past several nights. When we lose there are a million "Narron stinks" threads, but I didn't see one thread praising him on Reds Live last night or this morning. It works both ways and the guy deserves some credit when we win. He went for it all last night and I loved it. He is playing for our division, not the wild card. Now if he would just bench Clayton...

Good call...I was thinking of starting a thread like this as well...(but that would be kind of dumb now :))

KalDanielsfan
08-10-2006, 12:07 PM
i'll be honest, I dont like him or his style. I hope we re-hire pinella during the offseason.

Matt700wlw
08-10-2006, 12:09 PM
i'll be honest, I dont like him or his style. I hope we re-hire pinella during the offseason.

Considering Jerry's contract has been re-upped for 2 more years, I don't think that's going to happen.

Sea Ray
08-10-2006, 12:12 PM
Like any manager he's good when his players play well and do their jobs. He made a big deal at the time of the Cormier deal about how Rheal is so good vs RH hitters, but then last night he pulls him in favor of Coffey to face a RH hitter. I think Narron's OK and things worked out beautifully last night. Here's to hoping that his players continue to make him look good.

TeamCasey
08-10-2006, 12:14 PM
Did Jerry hit a homerun or make i diving catch towards the wall this series? ;)

TOBTTReds
08-10-2006, 12:26 PM
1 game....he did made numerous great moves. I hope he didn't use em all last night....

Highlifeman21
08-11-2006, 07:56 AM
C'mon, we rip him all the time, and rightly so. But he deserves kudos for pushing all the right buttons the past several nights. When we lose there are a million "Narron stinks" threads, but I didn't see one thread praising him on Reds Live last night or this morning. It works both ways and the guy deserves some credit when we win. He went for it all last night and I loved it. He is playing for our division, not the wild card. Now if he would just bench Clayton...

Let me repeat something I've said numerous times on here....

This team is winning in spite of Jerry Narron.

Let that sink in.

Ltlabner
08-11-2006, 08:04 AM
Trust me, there will be some here who will find it impossible to compliment Jerry for one nice game. It doesn't mean they think he's now a coaching wonder, or that overall he's even a good coach. Frankly, I think he's good as a "transition" coach but prob not the guy to take us all the way. Their raw hatred of the man will not allow them to issue nice words.

But for some to even say something nice about one game......doubt it. The silence on this thread is defening.

So the next time someone says, "I'll complement Jerry on a good game, but........", we'll have to think back to this thread and wonder if they are really true to their word.

And I'm not talking about everybody who doesn't like Narron, just a small segment of them that are not objective and honest enough to say, "yea, he did a good job in the 3rd game vs St Louis".

RedFanAlways1966
08-11-2006, 09:02 AM
The only REDS manager this century with a winning record.

Of course the REDS should be 40 games above .500 this year and are not b/c of Jerry Narron. I know.... b/c I read it here at RZ everyday. :laugh:

SunDeck
08-11-2006, 11:06 AM
Let me repeat something I've said numerous times on here....

This team is winning in spite of Jerry Narron.

Let that sink in.

Let this sink in-
The team is contending despite a marginal pitching staff.

reds1869
08-11-2006, 11:28 AM
Let this sink in-
The team is contending despite a marginal pitching staff.

Yep. At least the bullpen is now filled with legitimate major leaguers; it's a step in the right direction, but Narron is really held back by this pitching staff. I don't always agree with him, in fact I usually don't. But he had a nice stretch and it wouldn't kill people to admit it. As long as the reds are winning I'm happy. There are about a dozen other managers I would prefer to have, but we don't and Jerry is the one leading this team towards the playoffs. Would we be better off without him? Perhaps. But admit the possibility that we might also be 15 games under .500 instead.

Highlifeman21
08-11-2006, 11:59 AM
Let this sink in-
The team is contending despite a marginal pitching staff.


If Narron knew when to pull starters and how to use a bullpen, we would be leading the Central right now, but instead, #41 breaks out the smoke machine and brings a mirror with him daily to work in hopes to secure that W.

We win in spite of Jerry Narron.

I don't see what is so hard to understand about this concept. Giving Narron that extension was like giving the keys of your new car to your newly driving child, and hoping for the best. So far, lotta hit curbs, couple dings, couple dents.

westofyou
08-11-2006, 12:05 PM
Mayo Smith made Narron look like Einstein, he won a ring and got fired by the Reds when they stunk.

Life's funny and baseball is life.

SunDeck
08-11-2006, 12:12 PM
If Narron knew when to pull starters and how to use a bullpen, we would be leading the Central right now, but instead, #41 breaks out the smoke machine and brings a mirror with him daily to work in hopes to secure that W.





If Bronson weren't imploding before our very eyes, Jerry wouldn't have to make these decisions.

This kind of discussion could go on forever, and I respect the fact that a lot of folks on this board who know more about baseball than I agree with your position. But, in my opinion it's garbage in, garbage out and the Reds pitching staff is closer to garbage than it is to a bona fide contender. And they are in the race despite that. If they had a more solid starting rotation and were leading the Central, would Jerry Narron be as "inept" as he is now? Sure, but far fewer people would notice it. Jack McKeon was a genius when he managed the '99 Reds and when he took the Marlins to a World Series championship. He was a fool every other year.

I don't appreciate Jarry Narron. I don't despise him either, but I think his importance is just overrated. The Reds are still alive in August because of Bob Castellini and no one else. The Reds hugged it for five years because of Carl Lindner and no one else.

RedFanAlways1966
08-11-2006, 12:20 PM
I don't appreciate Jarry Narron. I don't despise him either, but I think his importance is just overrated.

The importance of a MLB manager is one of the most overrated things in sports IMO. I don't care who the jockey is or how great he is... if the horse cannot cut it. Managers do not win titles, teams do.

Highlifeman21
08-11-2006, 01:14 PM
If Bronson weren't imploding before our very eyes, Jerry wouldn't have to make these decisions.

This kind of discussion could go on forever, and I respect the fact that a lot of folks on this board who know more about baseball than I agree with your position. But, in my opinion it's garbage in, garbage out and the Reds pitching staff is closer to garbage than it is to a bona fide contender. And they are in the race despite that. If they had a more solid starting rotation and were leading the Central, would Jerry Narron be as "inept" as he is now? Sure, but far fewer people would notice it. Jack McKeon was a genius when he managed the '99 Reds and when he took the Marlins to a World Series championship. He was a fool every other year.

I don't appreciate Jarry Narron. I don't despise him either, but I think his importance is just overrated. The Reds are still alive in August because of Bob Castellini and no one else. The Reds hugged it for five years because of Carl Lindner and no one else.

Harang and Arroyo's recent struggles are the direct result of being left in games too long. IIRC, Harang had a 132 pitch outing and Arroyo around July 26th or 27th had a 120+ pitch outing, and then was used on short rest closely after for a Kyle Lohse start, I believe. Narron is leaving our horses in too long, which is why they have hit the wall. I don't care if they both had no hitters or perfect games going, you need to get guys out of games earlier and not reach that 120 pitch plateau. Narron needs to go to the bullpen sooner now, especially since WK's stocked his kitchen full of better ingredients.

keeganbrick
08-11-2006, 01:23 PM
If Narron knew when to pull starters and how to use a bullpen, we would be leading the Central right now, but instead, #41 breaks out the smoke machine and brings a mirror with him daily to work in hopes to secure that W.

We win in spite of Jerry Narron.

I don't see what is so hard to understand about this concept. Giving Narron that extension was like giving the keys of your new car to your newly driving child, and hoping for the best. So far, lotta hit curbs, couple dings, couple dents.
Worded quite well:thumbup:

RedFanAlways1966
08-11-2006, 01:45 PM
Harang and Arroyo's recent struggles are the direct result of being left in games too long. IIRC, Harang had a 132 pitch outing and Arroyo around July 26th or 27th had a 120+ pitch outing, and then was used on short rest closely after for a Kyle Lohse start, I believe. Narron is leaving our horses in too long, which is why they have hit the wall. I don't care if they both had no hitters or perfect games going, you need to get guys out of games earlier and not reach that 120 pitch plateau. Narron needs to go to the bullpen sooner now, especially since WK's stocked his kitchen full of better ingredients.

Worded well, but not exactly accurate.

* Arroyo's short start game was Aug. 5 vs. Braves. The start before that on Aug. 1 against LA was 6 innings and 110 pitches. Arroyo avgs. 109.6 pitches per start. Seems like Jerry left him in just right in regard to pitches thrown. BTW... I don't remember anyone knowing that Bronson would make his next start on short rest when he started that Aug. 1 game. Maybe the REDS knew before all of us and the media, but I do not think that was determined until after that Aug. 1 game. But it is moot anyhow seeing as Arroyo threw 110 pitches (right on his avg. for the season).

* Harang's longest game (# of pitches) was July 8 @ Atlanta. He threw 135 pitches in 8 innings (a complete game). He received an extra day of rest after that start b/c the All-Star Break happened between that start and his next start. His next start? 7 innings of shutout ball and a REDS win over Colorado 3-1. His next start after that was the 2+ hour rain delay game vs. NY Mets (gone after 2 innings b/c of rain delay). His next start after that? 8 innings and no runs @ Houston (beat Clemens).

You may be right. I don't know. Is 109.6 pitches per start too much for a MLB starter? Harang averages 106.0 pitches per start.... is that too many for MLB starter? Harang avg. 106.7 pitches/start in 2005. What is that magic number of pitches for a MLB starter? Is there a number?

jimbo
08-11-2006, 04:42 PM
The importance of a MLB manager is one of the most overrated things in sports IMO. I don't care who the jockey is or how great he is... if the horse cannot cut it. Managers do not win titles, teams do.

I don't necessarily agree with this if you are using the comparison to jockeys in horse racing (or drivers in standardbred racing) because I'm involved in the sport and know better. A good jockey can sometimes make decisions in a race that will help a horse that is overmatched and a bad one can make decisions to hurt a good horse, same thing with a manager. I agree that managers do not win titles, but they can contribute enough to get a team over the hump.

jimbo
08-11-2006, 04:44 PM
Narron needs to go to the bullpen sooner now, especially since WK's stocked his kitchen full of better ingredients.

What do you do then when the bullpen is fried from overuse?

Reds1
08-11-2006, 05:01 PM
I love him, the players love him, and we are in the hunt for the division and Wild Card leaders on August 11th. That's enough for me. I'm not greedy. :)

SunDeck
08-11-2006, 10:30 PM
Harang and Arroyo's recent struggles are the direct result of being left in games too long. IIRC, Harang had a 132 pitch outing and Arroyo around July 26th or 27th had a 120+ pitch outing, and then was used on short rest closely after for a Kyle Lohse start, I believe. Narron is leaving our horses in too long, which is why they have hit the wall. I don't care if they both had no hitters or perfect games going, you need to get guys out of games earlier and not reach that 120 pitch plateau. Narron needs to go to the bullpen sooner now, especially since WK's stocked his kitchen full of better ingredients.

So, he left them in too long...because the bullpen was terrible. He chose to leave them in because either he feared taking them out or he hoped some rest would help the bullpen. If he'd have taken them out and the BP ended up blowing the game, this thread would still exist.
And besides, Arroyo was headed downhill before late July.

reds1869
08-12-2006, 12:44 AM
So should I start the Jerry Narron Depreciation thread after tonight? ;)

KronoRed
08-12-2006, 12:46 AM
I don't like this thread right now ;)

marcshoe
08-12-2006, 12:48 AM
So should I start the Jerry Narron Depreciation thread after tonight? ;)


I've never seen any manager's value depreciate so much in one night. At least in my book. :bang:

reds1869
08-12-2006, 01:01 AM
I've never seen any manager's value depreciate so much in one night. At least in my book. :bang:

So true. And to think, I actually started this thread. :runawaycr

goreds2
08-12-2006, 01:04 AM
So true. And to think, I actually started this thread. :runawaycr

This just in....Milton starting at 3rd base tomorrow night because he is swinging a HOT BAT. Sorry EE. :rolleyes:

TOBTTReds
08-12-2006, 01:47 AM
This thread should be closed.

remdog
08-12-2006, 01:52 AM
One only needs to examine tonight's game to understand why a 'Jerry Narron Appreciation Thread' isn't really going to gain a lot of momentum on this board.

Jerry's moments are few and far between.

Rem

TOBTTReds
08-12-2006, 02:02 AM
1 game....he did make numerous great moves. I hope he didn't use em all last night....

I was right. :bang:

Billy_Bearcat
08-12-2006, 02:08 AM
This just in....Milton starting at 3rd base tomorrow night because he is swinging a HOT BAT. Sorry EE. :rolleyes:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Ron Madden
08-12-2006, 04:30 AM
[QUOTE=Ltlabner]Trust me, there will be some here who will find it impossible to compliment Jerry for one nice game. It doesn't mean they think he's now a coaching wonder, or that overall he's even a good coach. Frankly, I think he's good as a "transition" coach but prob not the guy to take us all the way. Their raw hatred of the man will not allow them to issue nice words.

But for some to even say something nice about one game......doubt it. The silence on this thread is defening.

So the next time someone says, "I'll complement Jerry on a good game, but........", we'll have to think back to this thread and wonder if they are really true to their word.

And I'm not talking about everybody who doesn't like Narron, just a small segment of them that are not objective and honest enough to say, "yea, he did a good job in the 3rd game vs St Louis"


I've always said that Narron is a good person, He might be a fine coach.
He NEVER will be a Good Manager.

If you think Narron is a Good Manager that's cool, that's your opinion. Don't expect everyone to agree just because it is your opinion. :beerme:

Ltlabner
08-12-2006, 06:47 AM
I've always said that Narron is a good person, He might be a fine coach. He NEVER will be a Good Manager.

If you think Narron is a Good Manager that's cool, that's your opinion. Don't expect everyone to agree just because it is your opinion. :beerme:

My point had nothing to do with the quality of Narron as a manager. It had everything to do with people not being able to bring themselves to even admit he had a game where he managed very well.

Of course when he makes some really poor decisions, as in last night, we have post after post after post about how he is an idiot, a moron, makes the worst decisions ever, who can replace him, etc.

You might consider re-reading my post, especially the part where I said I thought he was good for a transition but not the guy who can really "take us all the way". So I don't think Narron is peachy and wonderfull and perfect.

But I do think it's a shame that hate can flow so easily but even one nice word is impossible for some to find for the guy.

GAC
08-12-2006, 08:44 AM
Considering Jerry's contract has been re-upped for 2 more years, I don't think that's going to happen.

While I tend to agree with you Matt - those type of contracts can be swallowed pretty easily if the manager goes bottom up.

Kriv has released players making more then Jerry. ;)

TOBTTReds
08-25-2006, 02:44 AM
Bump. I feel it was worthy today with his decision making. I usually bash the heck out of him, but today he was right on. Some days it might not work out, but when it does, kudos.

Well played. Narron gets my game ball.

cincrazy
08-25-2006, 02:47 AM
For as heavily as I bashed him yesterday, that's how much I've got his back today. I'll never agree with any manager 100% of the time... but I like Narron, and have since day one. And he just might have saved the game when he ran out and got between Freel and the ump.

Billy_Bearcat
08-25-2006, 02:50 AM
I'm not a huge Narron fan, but I give him props for tonight. I think he pulled Milton at the right time, made the right pitching changes (pulled Rheal immediately) and kept Freel from getting thrown out of the game. Well done, coach.

Reds Freak
08-25-2006, 03:24 AM
I wonder if the lynching of Jerry Narron scheduled for tonight in the game threads has been cancelled? My goodness, I am by no means a Narron defender and I understand the emotion we all had for tonight's game, but the absolute hatred some of us were shelling out tonight in the game threads is uncalled for IMO.

redsmetz
08-25-2006, 05:08 AM
I wonder if the lynching of Jerry Narron scheduled for tonight in the game threads has been cancelled? My goodness, I am by no means a Narron defender and I understand the emotion we all had for tonight's game, but the absolute hatred some of us were shelling out tonight in the game threads is uncalled for IMO.

Bravo. I woke up early today and was catching the game thread and with a 3-3 game, the Narron is an Idiot crowd was in high form. And I'm thinking, Milton's got a quality start and he's going out in the 7th (presumably with a short leash) and we get the win. I honestly don't get it.

redsmetz
08-25-2006, 06:23 AM
I was reading Sports Weekly this morning and found this bit from Jim Leyland. I think this is what Narron is saying to the Reds as well.


"In my opinion, there's two things you can't do," Leyland told reporters during a recent pregame news conference in Chicago, where the White Sox swept the Tigers in a three-game series. "You can't walk around like you've done something, because there's a lot of time left. The other thing is, you can't walk around trying to hang on. You just have to go do what you've been doing all year. You've got to play.

"You just have to execute. You have to go pitch. You have to go get a big hit. You have to go make plays. And if you do that, you're going to get there (to the playoffs). If you don't, you're not. It's that simple."

Leyland stressed to his players in a clubhouse meeting in Chicago to embrace the pennant race. After all, it has been nearly two decades since the Tigers have even been in a race.

"If I'm a player, this has to be — no matter how this turns out — one of the most wonderful moments of your life," Leyland told reporters. "There's been a lot of teams that have had a better player or better couple players than anybody I have out here, (who) never, ever got to play in postseason play. So enjoy this. Don't make it a chore. ...

"This is not life or death. This is a pennant race. Make it a wonderful, wonderful experience. And at the end of the day, when it's all over, you want to walk away saying that was a wonderful experience.

"We gave it our best, we either were or weren't good enough, but man, we didn't cheat ourselves. Because that's what this is all about."

westofyou
08-25-2006, 10:43 AM
I wonder if the lynching of Jerry Narron scheduled for tonight in the game threads has been cancelled? My goodness, I am by no means a Narron defender and I understand the emotion we all had for tonight's game, but the absolute hatred some of us were shelling out tonight in the game threads is uncalled for IMO.
Narron saved Freel's bacon in the top of the ninth, it was a classic move, one that Miley never would have made (mostly because he was too afraid to move)

Ltlabner
08-25-2006, 11:46 AM
Narron saved Freel's bacon in the top of the ninth, it was a classic move, one that Miley never would have made (mostly because he was too afraid to move)

I didn't stay up to watch the game (I know, I'm not dedicated). What happened with Freel in the top of the 9th ?

guttle11
08-25-2006, 11:50 AM
I didn't stay up to watch the game (I know, I'm not dedicated). What happened with Freel in the top of the 9th ?

The home plate umpire, Guccione, was terrible all game. Both teams were upset. Freel got called out on strikes, making him 0-5 and started to go off on the ump. Narron came out and got between them before Freel got ejected.

westofyou
08-25-2006, 11:53 AM
I didn't stay up to watch the game (I know, I'm not dedicated). What happened with Freel in the top of the 9th ?
The zone was very east west last night, Freel was getting eaten up by teh west side of the plate, watched a strike in the 7th inning (or 6th) for strike 3, a strike that was clearly on the outside of the plate.. he had an issue.
In the 9th the same thing happpned.. again... Freel started to get real heated, the ump who had been hearing it all night was pretty heated too, narron got out there in-between them and Hatcher was able to swoop in and hustle Freel out of there.

Good move, Freel could have and might have been tossed, TH had already PH and they would have been short in the OF... plus the RF at that park is HUGE... Freels speed was much needed in there fo rthe bottom of the inning.

Good move Narron

RFS62
08-25-2006, 11:53 AM
The home plate umpire, Guccione, was terrible all game. Both teams were upset. Freel got called out on strikes, making him 0-5 and started to go off on the ump. Narron came out and got between them before Freel got ejected.


It was the way he got between them that was impressive.

He sprinted out of the dugout and pushed Freel aside like a little kid. I still don't see how Freel didn't get ejected.

I've never seen a manager come out that fast before.

Reds Freak
08-25-2006, 11:56 AM
If you go back this morning and read pages 21-25 or so in the ORG game thread, it really is ridiculous. I did not agree with the decision at the time either, but at no time did I want Jerry to die or burn in hell (I know you don't really want him to die, at least I hope not). However, that is not what this board is about. That's why I love this forum so much, we're better than that over here.

reds1869
08-25-2006, 11:59 AM
See, I wasn't crazy for starting this thread after all. ;)

Seriously, Narron managed very well last night. I think he has matured this season and has the potential to be an above average big league manager. He will never be great, but he is certainly doing well enough to have my short term confidence. No matter how many bad calls he makes, he still has us in first and in prime position for the playoffs. He has earned our respect, if not quite our trust.

ol'Sparky
08-25-2006, 11:59 AM
last nights game was fun to watch, he did some serious managing, he's a mastermind, and he's ours !!:thumbup:

westofyou
08-25-2006, 12:15 PM
However, that is not what this board is about.

Alas, the game thread has been a knee jerk reaction depository since RZ started, personally I avoid about 80% of them, baseball is a second guessing game, but it sure ain't checkers and it sure ain't easy and for my taste it sure doesn't need to be consumed with a big spoonful of agnst.

Ltlabner
08-25-2006, 12:17 PM
Alas, the game thread has been a knee jerk reaction depository since RZ started, personally I avoid about 80% of them, baseball is a second guessing game, but it sure ain't checkers and it sure ain't easy and for my taste it sure doesn't need to be consumed with a big spoonful of agnst.


[insert plug for chat durring games here]

:)

Chip R
08-25-2006, 12:33 PM
Good move, Freel could have and might have been tossed, TH had already PH and they would have been short in the OF... plus the RF at that park is HUGE... Freels speed was much needed in there fo rthe bottom of the inning.


We still had Javy to man RF. :evil:

westofyou
08-25-2006, 12:35 PM
[insert plug for chat durring games here]

:)
Chat.. nah, not my game either.

I like to "watch" the game and channel surf EI myself, howver most games start when I'm still working so if any typing is going on it's usually work at that time.

Ltlabner
08-25-2006, 03:22 PM
Chat.. nah, not my game either.

I like to "watch" the game and channel surf EI myself, howver most games start when I'm still working so if any typing is going on it's usually work at that time.


No problem, it's not for everybody.

I don't know if it's a skill or just a freak of genetic nature that I can watch the game on TV, take part in chat and find time to post in different threads.

In fact, that may not be something to be proud of at all.

redsmetz
08-25-2006, 05:57 PM
I don't know if it's a skill or just a freak of genetic nature that I can watch the game on TV, take part in chat and find time to post in different threads.

In fact, that may not be something to be proud of at all.

Sort of like this?

http://borgman.enquirer.com/img/daily/2006/08/082306borgman600x396.jpg