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Danny Serafini
08-10-2006, 11:41 AM
Not that it's the least bit surprising, but they officially made the move today and added Hollandsworth to the roster.

Joseph
08-10-2006, 11:41 AM
Booooo!

2001MUgrad
08-10-2006, 11:42 AM
Not surprising. At least its not someone else going on the DL

Redny
08-10-2006, 11:43 AM
I'd rather they find a taker for LaRue, but this is the obvious move for now.

redsfan30
08-10-2006, 11:44 AM
With Freel having a strangle hold on the right field job, this was the right move. Denorfia's sat for about three weeks now. Let him go down to Louisville and knock the rust off.

He'll be back on September 1st to be eligible for the playoff roster.

Chainer
08-10-2006, 11:44 AM
I'm all for it. All he really is, is a utility player, and nothing much more than that.

His hitting is lacking, and really doesn't belong in the line-up. His fielding and speed is good, but other than that he is lacking.

princeton
08-10-2006, 11:46 AM
I suspect that Denorfia will return on Aug 31, so that we'll have him on the roster for playoff games. On that day, we'll drop to 11 pitchers temporarily.

Maybe we'll even find a righthanded bat and drop to 10 pitchers for a day or two.

Mr. Redlegs
08-10-2006, 11:48 AM
He'll be better off in Louisville. He has put up some of the worst swings I've ever seen since he's been up with the Reds. I realize he's a slap hitter but he's putting up some ridiculous swings.

ochre
08-10-2006, 11:48 AM
I guess improved defense is just one of those talking points politicos like to employ at election time.

smith288
08-10-2006, 11:48 AM
Never understood the Denorfia fan club around here. He might provide good D but a few of those corner shots he seemed to have problems with.

pahster
08-10-2006, 11:50 AM
I shudder at the thought of the 2006 version of Todd Hollandsworth donning a Reds uniform.

dabvu2498
08-10-2006, 11:51 AM
I will miss the pinch running possibilities. Do we have a designated late game pinch runner now? (Should be Clayton. ;) )

BRM
08-10-2006, 11:51 AM
I guess improved defense is just one of those talking points politicos like to employ at election time.

Improved defense has been nothing but lip service to this point. I fully expect Krivsky to fix the defense this offseason though.

osuceltic
08-10-2006, 11:51 AM
I guess improved defense is just one of those talking points politicos like to employ at election time.
Are you saying Denorfia should be playing instead of Freel, or are you saying he should be playing instead of Junior or Dunn?

Or are you saying the organization should have kept running Denorfia out there out of stubbornness and an unwillingness to admit it isn't working?

If you're not saying any of those things, what are you saying?

Chainer
08-10-2006, 11:52 AM
I shudder at the thought of the 2006 version of Todd Hollandsworth donning a Reds uniform.

I don't.

registerthis
08-10-2006, 11:52 AM
With barely 70 major league ABs, I don't know how people are able to come to the determination that Denorfia can't cut it at this level. He's hardly been given a chance to.

That being said, I do support optioning him at this point. Freel's locked up RF and I'm sure the Reds would rather see Chris get some reps down in L-ville and be ready to come back on Sept. 1 than have him rot on the bench for the next 3 weeks.

ochre
08-10-2006, 11:54 AM
Are you saying Denorfia should be playing instead of Freel, or are you saying he should be playing instead of Junior or Dunn?

Or are you saying the organization should have kept running Denorfia out there out of stubbornness and an unwillingness to admit it isn't working?

If you're not saying any of those things, what are you saying?
why not instead of Clayton?

princeton
08-10-2006, 11:54 AM
Improved defense has been nothing but lip service .

do you miss Tony Womack?

ochre
08-10-2006, 11:55 AM
do you miss Tony Womack?
only as a friend.

BRM
08-10-2006, 11:58 AM
do you miss Tony Womack?

:laugh:

Nice one. No, I don't. Although he's probably no worse than Royce Clayton.

pahster
08-10-2006, 11:59 AM
I don't.

He makes an out almost 75% of the time. No ammount of solid veteran experience can make up for that.

smith288
08-10-2006, 12:00 PM
With barely 70 major league ABs, I don't know how people are able to come to the determination that Denorfia can't cut it at this level. He's hardly been given a chance to.

That being said, I do support optioning him at this point. Freel's locked up RF and I'm sure the Reds would rather see Chris get some reps down in L-ville and be ready to come back on Sept. 1 than have him rot on the bench for the next 3 weeks.
I think its more than out of those 70 ABs, 40 he looked 100% clueless and the other 30 he barely had a clue. But I wont give up on him until he gets a little more experience. Just not now.

MrCinatit
08-10-2006, 12:00 PM
There is always a glimmer of hope that the team is working a deal involving LaRue, Valantin or Clayton.
A guy can dream.

flyer85
08-10-2006, 12:03 PM
I can't help but chuckle. I guess it wasn't "his time".

ochre
08-10-2006, 12:05 PM
I can't help but chuckle. I guess it wasn't "his time".
time is such a nebulous quality. It is, however, still about the 'D'.

:)

toledodan
08-10-2006, 12:11 PM
i like to think deno will help us in the future. just right now in playoff race you can't be patient with him. he needs to play everyday to continue developing. while i'm not much of a hollandsworth fan he makes more sense than deno right now. of course if jose cruz jr wasn't making so much money i would have rather had him.

EKURed
08-10-2006, 12:11 PM
I guess improved defense is just one of those talking points politicos like to employ at election time.

Like the afternoon game against the Mets when he called Phillips off for some unknown reason?? This is the right move. Right now, he is simply over matched and Freel is going to play every single day that he is healthy enough to play, so why not get Denorfia some regular at bats?

pahster
08-10-2006, 12:12 PM
of course if jose cruz jr wasn't making so much money i would have rather had him.

Wait another day or two and he'd be a free agent.

westofyou
08-10-2006, 12:19 PM
I guess improved defense is just one of those talking points politicos like to employ at election time.
I guess Ryan Freel's midget stole DeNorfia's Roy Hobbs moment.

20 days and he'll be back, 20 days of a LH Power PH stick is needed, Denorfia had a sub .500 OPS and only 2 hits in the last month.

No OF defensive replacement is needed that much, the only way his current loss hurts the Reds is if the defense of Dunn comes into play in someplace like... say Dodger Stadium?

Expect him to be in San Diego on 9-1 and expect him to probably see some o ftheir LF.

ochre
08-10-2006, 12:24 PM
he's only a drastic improvement defensively in CF...

registerthis
08-10-2006, 12:27 PM
I think its more than out of those 70 ABs, 40 he looked 100% clueless and the other 30 he barely had a clue. But I wont give up on him until he gets a little more experience. Just not now.

Only 45 ABs this year. Do you really remember how clueless or inept he looked in his 30+ ABs in 2005? I sure don't.

I think labelling Deno as a AAAA player is the fashionable thing to do since Freel has claimed the RF slot, but I think there's precious little evidence to support that at this point. If the Reds are serious about Deno playing, then they need to get him regular playing time and find out if he could truly cut it at this level. If the Reds are unwilling to do that at a time when the team is in the thick of a playoff chase, then they should be making plans to do it during the offseason. If not, unload him on a team that's willing to play him. He's not helping anyone by rotting on our bench or OPSing .900 in Louisville.

EKURed
08-10-2006, 12:29 PM
he's only a drastic improvement defensively in CF...

Really? And right now he's a slappy with not much hope at the plate. Take Griffey out and replace him with Denorfia and the offense loses ALOT of pop. Don't get blinded because you are a huge Denorfia fan, which you are of course entitled to be. I think Denorfia will be a major leaguer, but this is not the right time for this team..

Always Red
08-10-2006, 12:32 PM
he's only a drastic improvement defensively in CF...
True, and he has looked lost in the OF at times, has had some really poor AB's, AND, Ryan Freel has stepped up and played tremendously over the last few weeks in RF.

We heard when Kearns was traded away that Denorfia was told that it's his time now. I think Ryan Freel heard that said about Deno's situation, and decided to do something about it, and hats off to him for stepping up.

That all adds up as poor timing for Deno, and I'm a big fan of his. But no way does he play right now over anybody else out there, and I'd rather have Hollandsworth pinch-hitting than Deno.

He'll be back in September, as he does have value for this team right now as a defensive replacement/pinch-runner, as others have noted above.

I'd like to see him in CF next year, if he can hit like he had been in AAA. But that's another argument!:)

BRM
08-10-2006, 12:33 PM
No OF defensive replacement is needed that much, the only way his current loss hurts the Reds is if the defense of Dunn comes into play in someplace like... say Dodger Stadium?

Expect him to be in San Diego on 9-1 and expect him to probably see some o ftheir LF.

True. I don't mind Deno getting sent down right now as he was getting no PT anyway. He'll be back in a few weeks anyway.

smith288
08-10-2006, 12:34 PM
Only 45 ABs this year. Do you really remember how clueless or inept he looked in his 30+ ABs in 2005? I sure don't.

I think labelling Deno as a AAAA player is the fashionable thing to do since Freel has claimed the RF slot, but I think there's precious little evidence to support that at this point. If the Reds are serious about Deno playing, then they need to get him regular playing time and find out if he could truly cut it at this level. If the Reds are unwilling to do that at a time when the team is in the thick of a playoff chase, then they should be making plans to do it during the offseason. If not, unload him on a team that's willing to play him. He's not helping anyone by rotting on our bench or OPSing .900 in Louisville.
My point is that he has looked about as overmatched of a player as I have ever seen for how much hype he got by many around these parts.

ochre
08-10-2006, 12:34 PM
Really? And right now he's a slappy with not much hope at the plate. Take Griffey out and replace him with Denorfia and the offense loses ALOT of pop. Don't get blinded because you are a huge Denorfia fan, which you are of course entitled to be.
I am not a huge Denorfia fan.

I'm just wondering when the lip service that was paid to defense (applied to Clayton erroneously) will actual come to be. Sure, what I advocate would be risky, as it would require a couple of players to shift around to new positions, but hey, we're all about drastic when it comes to improving the defense. Griffey to Right, Freel to second, Phillips to SS. Denorfia does his best Royce Clayton at the plate impersonation and you've improved the defense dramatically without much impact on the offense. When Freel cools down, as he's prone to do, Aurillia can get some time at 2B.

goreds2
08-10-2006, 12:36 PM
I will miss the pinch running possibilities. Do we have a designated late game pinch runner now? (Should be Clayton. ;) )

I agree. (Remember Billy Bates?)

Roy Tucker
08-10-2006, 12:36 PM
I think Denorfia will be a darn fine MLB player.

But he is unlucky in that Freel got hot to take the RF job and bad timing that the Reds are now seriously committed to the pennant race and won't give any PT to a rookie to get used to being a MLB regular.

I'd like to see him on the playoff roster, but I can only envision bad things that I don't want to see happen for that to occur.

redsmetz
08-10-2006, 01:21 PM
With Freel having a strangle hold on the right field job, this was the right move. Denorfia's sat for about three weeks now. Let him go down to Louisville and knock the rust off.

He'll be back on September 1st to be eligible for the playoff roster.

Or until after Louisville finishes the post-season (if they make it). I'm glad Chris got to be part of last night's win. I hope he knocks the snot out the ball down there to either force our hand or give him an opportunity elsewhere (and us some prospect or other).

keeganbrick
08-10-2006, 01:24 PM
The major thing that hurts because of this move is we have noone to pinch run now.

Chainer
08-10-2006, 01:29 PM
He makes an out almost 75% of the time. No ammount of solid veteran experience can make up for that.

And that makes him different from Deno....how? Speed? Defense?

I'm lost in this argument....

Both players aren't hitting very well, so this really moot.

Gizmo
08-10-2006, 01:31 PM
The major thing that hurts because of this move is we have noone to pinch run now.

Like Deno last night? Anyone can trot the bases for me. :D

pahster
08-10-2006, 01:31 PM
And that makes him different from Deno....how? Speed? Defense?

I'm lost in this argument....

Both players aren't hitting very well, so this really moot.

Speed, defense, upside, and recent success.

Chainer
08-10-2006, 01:33 PM
Speed, defense, upside, and recent success.

Recent success? With what?

And what is his upside? He's young? What does that matter if you can't hit the ball?

RedEye
08-10-2006, 02:49 PM
Denorfia for some reason reminds me a lot of Herm Winningham.

RedEye
08-10-2006, 02:51 PM
Denorfia for some reason reminds me a lot of Herm Winningham.

Good defense, good speed, mediocre bat. Why did we trade Austin again?

pahster
08-10-2006, 03:17 PM
Recent success? With what?

And what is his upside? He's young? What does that matter if you can't hit the ball?

Recent success this year, albeit in AAA. Hollandsworth has been absolutely atrocious this year and last. 2004 was a good year, but he only had 148 ABs.

So what is the point in trading for Hollandsworth, especially when Cruz (who can at least still get on base) will be available in a couple of days?

Chainer
08-10-2006, 03:22 PM
Recent success this year, albeit in AAA. Hollandsworth has been absolutely atrocious this year and last. 2004 was a good year, but he only had 148 ABs.

So what is the point in trading for Hollandsworth, especially when Cruz (who can at least still get on base) will be available in a couple of days?

AAA success doesn't matter in the big game, dude. Does Brandon Larson ring a bell? :rolleyes:

We never traded anything GOOD for Hollandsworth. So, really....what does it matter?

pahster
08-10-2006, 03:24 PM
AAA success doesn't matter in the big game, dude. Does Brandon Larson ring a bell? :rolleyes:

We never traded anything GOOD for Hollandsworth. So, really....what does it matter?

Then failure at the big league level is preferable?

They have to pay him and send something back to Cleveland. Thats bad enough.

Chainer
08-10-2006, 03:29 PM
Then failure at the big league level is preferable?

They have to pay him and send something back to Cleveland. Thats bad enough.

He hasn't failed EVERY year, and was once Rookie of the Year. So he has that advantage over Denorfia....if that's who you're trying to compare.

pahster
08-10-2006, 03:38 PM
He hasn't failed EVERY year, and was once Rookie of the Year. So he has that advantage over Denorfia....if that's who you're trying to compare.

Brady Anderson once hit 50 homeruns...

You're talking about something he achieved around 10 years ago during a solid, but not great, season for an outfielder (.785 OPS).

But no, I don't actually mind Denorfia going down for a while. For whatever reason, he's looked pretty poor at the plate since he came back up. Don't think I expect him to post a .900+ OPS because I don't. But if he keeps it at around .750 he's an asset to this team. Hollandsworth just isn't an upgrade. If Krivsky had picked up Cruz, I wouldn't mind so much. Why? Because he doesn't make an out in three quarters of his plate appearances.

Chainer
08-10-2006, 04:08 PM
Brady Anderson once hit 50 homeruns...

You're talking about something he achieved around 10 years ago during a solid, but not great, season for an outfielder (.785 OPS).

But no, I don't actually mind Denorfia going down for a while. For whatever reason, he's looked pretty poor at the plate since he came back up. Don't think I expect him to post a .900+ OPS because I don't. But if he keeps it at around .750 he's an asset to this team. Hollandsworth just isn't an upgrade. If Krivsky had picked up Cruz, I wouldn't mind so much. Why? Because he doesn't make an out in three quarters of his plate appearances.

But you're missing the point. You're saying Hollandsworth does....but so does Denorfia.

And remember....On-Base percentage means absolutely nothing, if you don't score.

redsupport
08-10-2006, 04:20 PM
he reminds me of an anemic Ed Armbrister

pahster
08-10-2006, 04:34 PM
And remember....On-Base percentage means absolutely nothing, if you don't score.

Sure it does. It means an out has not been made and the inning continues. The higher the frequency of outs is, the less likely a team is to score. Make outs at a slower pace and you put yourself in position to score more often.

Chainer
08-10-2006, 04:43 PM
Sure it does. It means an out has not been made and the inning continues. The higher the frequency of outs is, the less likely a team is to score. Make outs at a slower pace and you put yourself in position to score more often.

You're speaking hypothetically, so these points will conflict.

You state it puts them in the position to score. Putting them in position to score DOES NOT mean they will. That's the whole point. You can have 3 guys on and no outs, and if a person doesn't get a hit or walk, those guys on base mean absolutely nothing. The only time they mean anything, is if they score, point blank.

Being on base is great, but driving in runs is MUCH better. And if it comes to it, I'd much rather have a guy up (Hollandsworth) with power, as opposed to a speedy defensive player (Denorfia). Either player has trouble hitting the ball and getting on base, so I guess this is just personal preference.

And overall, this whole argument is moot.

pahster
08-10-2006, 04:46 PM
You're right, getting on base doesn't mean that they will score, simply that they have more opportunities, which is a good thing.

My problem isn't that I think that at this moment Denorfia is better than Hollandsworth, its that I see it as a waste of resources. They've both been playing pretty poorly, so Denorfia has a very very slight advantage in that he can play defense and is fast. I would have much prefered that the Reds just wait fro Cruz to become a FA or to stand pat.

cincy jacket
08-10-2006, 05:11 PM
Denorfia gets sent down.... Reds lose.... Coincidence?

Chainer
08-10-2006, 05:13 PM
Denorfia gets sent down.... Reds lose.... Coincidence?

Has to be.

BRM
08-10-2006, 05:15 PM
Denorfia gets sent down.... Reds lose.... Coincidence?

Nah. It's because Clayton didn't start.

KronoRed
08-10-2006, 06:05 PM
With barely 70 major league ABs, I don't know how people are able to come to the determination that Denorfia can't cut it at this level. He's hardly been given a chance to.

Agreed, and he really wasn't getting consistent time this go around, 3 starts in a row after the break then he was in Q land.

KronoRed
08-10-2006, 06:06 PM
Nah. It's because Clayton didn't start.
Wait...I thought it was Rich?:evil:

LawFive
08-10-2006, 07:53 PM
On a somewhat related note, is anyone else concerned about the current roster construction? If Hollandsworth is used as a PH, the Reds have no other outfielders available.

pedro
08-10-2006, 09:16 PM
On a somewhat related note, is anyone else concerned about the current roster construction? If Hollandsworth is used as a PH, the Reds have no other outfielders available.

that was the case when Denofria was there too. I don't like it though.

RBA
08-10-2006, 09:20 PM
I think Rich Aurilia should of been allowed to take Christopher under his wing. They could of been MLB's version of Batman and Robin!

REDREAD
08-11-2006, 12:11 AM
On a somewhat related note, is anyone else concerned about the current roster construction? If Hollandsworth is used as a PH, the Reds have no other outfielders available.

Good point. I wonder if we can get Womack back :lol:

In all seriousness, it is an odd roster. With 3 catchers, 12 pitchers,and Hat only being able to play 1b, it does limit things the Reds can do.
Carrying Castro (who should never pinch hit) limits us as well.

However, I like exchanging Defornia with Hollandsworth, since Narron never substitutes Dunn or Jr for defensive purposes anyway. I'm not saying he should, but if he did, Defornia would have more value on the bench.

Chip R
08-11-2006, 01:59 AM
I think Rich Aurilia should of been allowed to take Christopher under his wing. They could of been MLB's version of Batman and Robin!

Or Ace and Gary. ;)

KronoRed
08-11-2006, 03:40 AM
Or Ace and Gary. ;)
Not that there is anything wrong with that

CTA513
08-11-2006, 03:51 AM
I think Rich Aurilia should of been allowed to take Christopher under his wing. They could of been MLB's version of Batman and Robin!

Aurilia likes to wear tights?

:yikes:

Ron Madden
08-11-2006, 04:56 AM
I will miss the pinch running possibilities. Do we have a designated late game pinch runner now? (Should be Clayton. ;) )

Nah, JN likes Milton in that role.

Ron Madden
08-11-2006, 05:24 AM
I guess improved defense is just one of those talking points politicos like to employ at election time.

In order to improve a teams defense, we must understand defense.

Narron, nor any of our coaching staff have shown the ability to identify Good Defense.

Ron Madden
08-11-2006, 05:46 AM
AAA success doesn't matter in the big game, dude. Does Brandon Larson ring a bell? :rolleyes:

We never traded anything GOOD for Hollandsworth. So, really....what does it matter?

It matters that Hollandsworth is Holloandsworth.

Sure we need a LH bat off the bench. The thing that scares me is Narron will see the need to start him twice a week.

Doc. Scott
08-11-2006, 02:24 PM
Louisville fans have to be jazzed. They get Denorfia back for their stretch run over the next couple of weeks... and just in time, because they're only two games out of first.