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View Full Version : Elizardo Ramirez and his recent poor performances



crazybob60
08-11-2006, 11:42 PM
Well after tonight and the way that The Lizard pitched and well everybody generally feeling that as soon as you saw him come into the game, you sorta had this bad feeling that Elizardo just might end up giving up the next run and ultimately the ballgame. My question is, what is next for the Lizard man. Personally I think they need to ship him back down to AAA for a few more weeks no questions asked and see if he can get his head back on straight or whatever it is. I mean he is only like what 6 or so appearances from striking out 7 in a row, right?

And with recent additions, we do have arms that can fill in in dire straights if need be. Heck, Kyle Lohse has simply been AMAZING, so move him to the 4 hole, and if you need the 5th starter, then just insert Ryan Franklin. Unless you want to be real adventurous and have that EXTRA big draw and you know where I am going with this....the old Homer Bailey call-up, but if I had to bet a dollar to a donut on that happening, I would only give us a .000001% chance of coming true this season unfortunately.

So what are your alls thoughts on this whole Ramirez situation and what the Reds brass should do here?

RedsFanInMD
08-11-2006, 11:45 PM
After tonight they may have no choice but to send him down for reinforcements, considering that we are going to need somebody to eat innings beginning tomorrow.

Shaknb8k
08-11-2006, 11:47 PM
can anyone do quick research and find who is due to start tomorrow at AAA and AA?

reds1869
08-11-2006, 11:54 PM
can anyone do quick research and find who is due to start tomorrow at AAA and AA?

Well, a certain someone is set to start for the Lookouts on Sunday. Could this be the time to give him a shot? I've been advocating keeping him in the minors, but why not see what he can do. It can't be worse than 4-5 in our rotation right now.

Redeye fly
08-11-2006, 11:54 PM
I don't know what happened to the kid. I mean yeah, he has to be fine and hit his spots to be successful anyway, but it wasn't that long ago that he was on a strikeout streak against the Astros. Now it seems like he's lost his confidence and he's pitching scared.

I would probably put him in the pen for a while and limit the situations in which he's used to low pressure ones- mop up with the Reds holding a rather sizeable lead or trailing by a rather sizeable margin. Tonight was a little out of Narron's control.

I don't know who you call up to start tomorrow though. Germano I guess. Oh wait:p:

Chainer
08-11-2006, 11:55 PM
He may not be pitching well....but he gave up a run in the 14th inning, in a game that Bill Bray really lost for the team. Kyle Lohse pitched brilliantly, and it was blown, not by Elizardo, but Bill Bray.

It wasn't a great performance tonight, but he really isn't to blame for the loss.

Redeye fly
08-11-2006, 11:59 PM
He may not be pitching well....but he gave up a run in the 14th inning, in a game that Bill Bray really lost for the team. Kyle Lohse pitched brilliantly, and it was blown, not by Elizardo, but Bill Bray.

It wasn't a great performance tonight, but he really isn't to blame for the loss.

You're right... Elizardo isn't the only one to blame. However, if Fultz hadn't lined the ball at Aurilia, then he wouldn't have come close to getting a batter out in the 14th, and would have given up the game winning hit to a relief pitcher.

Reds1
08-12-2006, 12:01 AM
He may not be pitching well....but he gave up a run in the 14th inning, in a game that Bill Bray really lost for the team. Kyle Lohse pitched brilliantly, and it was blown, not by Elizardo, but Bill Bray.

It wasn't a great performance tonight, but he really isn't to blame for the loss.

He's just one of many to blame. Griffey should have made the catch, LaRue throws the ball into center on a pick off play, no key hits by many of the reds. I mean 8 hits in 14 innings and one by Milton are you kidding me. This one hurts.

Chainer
08-12-2006, 12:02 AM
You're right... Elizardo isn't the only one to blame. However, if Fultz hadn't lined the ball at Aurilia, then he wouldn't have come close to getting a batter out in the 14th, and would have given up the game winning hit to a relief pitcher.

You're speculating about a game that's already over with.

The entire team played like crap aside from Lohse, Valentin's pinch hit homer, and EE.

So, I guess the only reason we lost was because of Elizardo? Pfffffftttt! :rolleyes:

KYRed
08-12-2006, 12:05 AM
It wasn't a great performance tonight, but he really isn't to blame for the loss.

I agree. I can't say this without being condescending towards EZ, but with the way he has pitched recently I had no confidence he was going to take it to 15 tonight. I'm more worried in that the 14th was reminiscent of his last few horrible starts, showing a clear trend. Despite that, the lizard is way down on the blame list tonight I'd say. He's well behind the guy that brought him into the game for starters.

Redeye fly
08-12-2006, 12:15 AM
You're speculating about a game that's already over with.

The entire team played like crap aside from Lohse, Valentin's pinch hit homer, and EE.

So, I guess the only reason we lost was because of Elizardo? Pfffffftttt! :rolleyes:


What speculation? He gave up a hit, a walk, an intentional walk, a line shot at Aurilia, and a hit after that to lose the game. If Fultz's liner isn't hit at and caught by Aurilia, then that wins the game for the Phillies, and Elizardo would not have retired one single batter. That isn't speculation.

I'm not quite sure what part of my saying Elizardo isn't the only one to blame you missed. Apparently it's much more fun to go pfffffttttt and roll your eyes than to actually read a post.

oregonred
08-12-2006, 12:19 AM
I'm not holding this one at all against EZ.

Mentally he had no idea he'd ever be in the game tonight. He's thinking about the start tomorrow 100%. oh, and he's still a pup...

Then his manager proceeds to walks guy to third with none out... Plenty of blame to go around tonight.

GOREDSGO32
08-12-2006, 12:29 AM
Everyone sucked today, but he sucked last, and got the loss. I thought it was over when Harang came in honestly, but Hollandsworth saved the game for another inning. Sad thing is right now, Lohse and Milton are the only ones putting together good starts.

remdog
08-12-2006, 01:12 AM
.....LaRue throws the ball into center on a pick off play.......This one hurts.

Yes it hurts, but Ross threw the ball into center field, not LaRue.

Rem

TOBTTReds
08-12-2006, 01:39 AM
I'm not holding this one at all against EZ.

Mentally he had no idea he'd ever be in the game tonight. He's thinking about the start tomorrow 100%. oh, and he's still a pup...

Then his manager proceeds to walks guy to third with none out... Plenty of blame to go around tonight.

Totally agree.

jamess697
08-12-2006, 09:57 AM
You're speculating about a game that's already over with.

The entire team played like crap aside from Lohse, Valentin's pinch hit homer, and EE.

So, I guess the only reason we lost was because of Elizardo? Pfffffftttt! :rolleyes:
Easy E isn't getting the job done so EASY! He is overwhelmed and seems like he doesn't even want to go out there. I say send him down for a while and see how he reacts. Then address it at a later date, depending on how well he pitches.

Chainer
08-12-2006, 10:40 AM
Easy E isn't getting the job done so EASY! He is overwhelmed and seems like he doesn't even want to go out there. I say send him down for a while and see how he reacts. Then address it at a later date, depending on how well he pitches.

But, he can't be blamed for the loss last night.

cincrazy
08-12-2006, 03:02 PM
EZ's stuff doesn't bother me. If he locates the way he's capable of doing, he's got good enough stuff to be a decent starter in this league. My concern with EZ right now is his mental makeup. From the words of Javy Valentin and other's, it's not very strong. I just hope whatever nerves he's battling right now he can shelve by next season. The guy's only 23, it's not his fault that this franchise is relying on a 23 year old unproven pitcher as one of the key cogs in the rotation, so I can't be hard on him. The guy just has to learn to trust his stuff, and once he does that, he'll be a solid MLB pitcher for a long time.

Dunner44
08-12-2006, 07:53 PM
EZ hasn't located well lately though. I think we'll see him down at AAA by his next start and see Franklin moving into the roatation. I don't know if its becuase of the number of innings pitched so far in the bigs this season or if people are catching up to his stuff, but he could benefit from some time back on the farm to hone his skills a little more.

Franklin has done well, I hope he can make the move, just like Loshe has done. As to which reliever to bring back up, Belisle is a good option.

Team Clark
08-12-2006, 07:55 PM
Totally agree.

I will gladly 2nd that.

TRF
08-12-2006, 07:57 PM
As bad as he has been, Arroyo has been far worse.

Dunner44
08-12-2006, 08:00 PM
I will gladly 2nd that.

Can't blame EZ for last night, but 5 runs in 1.3 innings tonight you can. Sure, some of it is fatigue, some is mental stress from last night, but lately he's either been tipping or his placement has been off. Either way, he'll be down in AAA tomorrow, Belisle will be back with the club, and Franklin will move into the rotation. This is just my guess, of course. I haven't seen Belisle's numbers on his assignemnt, but i'd guess he's the most logical one to come back up, as Standridge hasn't passed enough time on the DL yet.

goreds2
08-12-2006, 08:00 PM
During the All-Star break I totally disagreed in starting Ramirez in Dayton. Any pitcher can use a break to recharge during the break. This may or may not be the reason for his recent demise.

I tip my cap to him tonight though for giving it a shot.

Dunner44
08-12-2006, 08:02 PM
As bad as he has been, Arroyo has been far worse.

However, the difference between EZ and Bronson is that JN has the confidence in BA to keep him in the game and allow him to get 6 innings. While Beantown has allowed 5 or 6 runs in his last few starts, it's been over 5 to 6 innings, not in 1.1 innings, the length of EZ's start today (1.2 last time). EZ has killed the bullpen. Now, blame it on jerry or what have you for pulling the guy early, but he's been too hittable lately and has done poorly working out of jams, so i don't disagree with the decision to lift him those last two times.

TRF
08-12-2006, 08:06 PM
i don't either, but Arroyo gets soooo much man love on this board, And he's not even close to being the best pitcher on the staff. That would be Harang.

EZ seems to have hit a wall. But he's 23 and can progress. Arroyo is what he is right now. He's not likely to get much better.

Dunner44
08-12-2006, 08:10 PM
i don't either, but Arroyo gets soooo much man love on this board, And he's not even close to being the best pitcher on the staff. That would be Harang.

EZ seems to have hit a wall. But he's 23 and can progress. Arroyo is what he is right now. He's not likely to get much better.

Couldn't agree more. BA started out phenominally, and got national recognition for such (see all star slelction). So he is hyped much more. As he stands, BA is a good 4th or 5th starter same as uncle milty. (except milty has been good lately, even if his GO/FO ratio is less than .5).

Harang is undoubtedly the ace of this staff, and deserves the recognition as such, but since he was never in a big market, and doesn't sing on the side, that recognition will escape him until he puts up these numbers OR 20 wins for a few more years.