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Kc61
08-12-2006, 10:23 PM
Guy has really helped the Reds in a pinch for starters this year. But he seems to have hit a wall. I would send him down to AAA until Sept 1. Bring up Shack to shore up the pen, give Michalak another start or two when needed.

jmcclain19
08-13-2006, 01:34 AM
He's still 23 - he's thrown 140.0 MLB level innnigs so far in his career.

Sometimes when something is right in front of your face you lose perspective, but the "young" pitcher the Reds gave up last month for Kyle Lohse, Zach Ward, is just 12 months younger than Ramirez, and he's still toiling away in A ball.

He hit the 100 IP wall this year and he hit it hard. It happens with young arms. He still has a future with the Reds, and a potential bright one.

reds44
08-13-2006, 01:45 AM
Yep JC19 I agree 100%. He'll be back. I could see him in the rotation to start next season.

TOBTTReds
08-13-2006, 01:56 AM
Yep JC19 I agree 100%. He'll be back. I could see him in the rotation to start next season.

Yeah, people act like he is a 30 year old vet. He is 23, hardly pitched and I hope has just hit a wall. He has very good control, but needs to work on getting that outside the strike zone. Right now I think he is aiming to much at the middle of plate, and tipping a bit.

Hopefully everything will be turned around soon with some good instruction, and rest, and be back in September. We NEED him to start like he was earlier this season.

RedsMan3203
08-13-2006, 02:02 AM
03 he pitched 157.1 innigs for Clearwater
04 he pichted 138.2 innngs for Clearwater, Reading, Chattanooga, and the Phils
05 he pitched 153.2 innings for Louisville and the Reds.
06 he has pitched 124.1 innings for Dayton, Louisville and the Reds.

Seems like he just gets to the 150 inning mark each year... Probably needs some arm work... But he'll be fine...

Just "tired".

KronoRed
08-13-2006, 03:25 AM
No need to give up on him, but I don't think he'll help the Reds anymore this year.

GAC
08-13-2006, 05:17 AM
I think it's solely an endurance problem and a kid with a small frame physically. Room him with Coffey and start taking him to the Golden Corral. ;)

Ltlabner
08-13-2006, 09:09 AM
Besides his disaters starts here at the end, Lizzard helped us out with some soild starts when we had no other options. He pitched well but I think this is just part of a growth process that has to happen for him.

Every pitcher has those times or nights when everything isn't working well. The better ones figure out how to get over that hump and keep their team in the game.

I'm hopefull that he can "figure that out" because I think he can be a good starter for us in the future.

Highlifeman21
08-13-2006, 11:52 AM
No need to give up on him, but I don't think he'll help the Reds anymore this year.

Agreed.

Last night, before the game, as we avoided Phun Phillies Phans, me, Cyclone and Mole44 all kicked around the over under of how long Elizardo would go.

None of us went over 3 IP. Mole guessed 1/3, Cyclone had 2 1/3, and somehow magically I guessed 1 1/3.

The kid didn't look good in his 15 pitches the night before, and he sure as hell didn't look good in his limited action last night. IIRC, this is 3 straight phenomenal appearances from our 23 year old dead arm.

He's done for the year for the big club. Maybe he can bond with Denorfia down in Louisville.

princeton
08-13-2006, 11:52 AM
He hit the 100 IP wall this year and he hit it hard.

a SP that hits a 100 IP wall is called bullpenner or minor leaguer

we juiced that one. On to uglier fruit.

KronoRed
08-13-2006, 04:09 PM
EZ in the pen?

Hmm..could work out, still leave us with few starters.