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View Full Version : EZ Optioned to Louisville per Marc



KittyDuran
08-12-2006, 11:51 PM
Saturday, August 12, 2006
Makes sense

PHILADELPHIA -- The Reds optioned Elizardo Ramirez to Louisville after the game.

No corresponding move until tomorrow. I'd guess Belisle or maybe Shackelford.

posted by Marc at 10:48 PM 0 comments

traderumor
08-12-2006, 11:53 PM
I say they use Castellini's private jet to start shuttling these guys back and forth to whatever city the Reds are in.

KoryMac5
08-12-2006, 11:53 PM
So who will be given the full time starting nod now that EZ is gone, Franklin or Michalak

GOREDSGO32
08-12-2006, 11:54 PM
Michalak hopefully. Good riddance, he's almost blown 3 games in a week for us.

dougflynn23
08-12-2006, 11:56 PM
:eek: In all honesty it should have been Billings. I will be shocked if Ramirez ever pitches for the Reds again. His recent performances demonstrate either a) a complete lack of preparation or b) the worse case of psychological damage since Brian Reith. If he were a horse they would have shot him.

CTA513
08-12-2006, 11:57 PM
Only bring back Belisle if hes 100%.
The Reds dont need him to go back and forth from the DL like him and Mercker just did.

JTMONEY
08-12-2006, 11:57 PM
yeah hopefully michalak after that performance, he impressed me a lot. even though he is thirty-five i think this guy can help us down the stretch winning the division or wildcard and even down in to the playoffs

traderumor
08-12-2006, 11:58 PM
:eek: In all honesty it should have been Billings. I will be shocked if Ramirez ever pitches for the Reds again. His recent performances demonstrate either a) a complete lack of preparation or b) the worse case of psychological damage since Brian Reith. If he were a horse they would have shot him.He's 23. He's struggling. I think that's a bit of a drastic evaluation.

reds44
08-13-2006, 12:00 AM
yeah hopefully michalak after that performance, he impressed me a lot. even though he is thirty-five i think this guy can help us down the stretch winning the division or wildcard and even down in to the playoffs
I stongly disagree. The only reason he was sucessful is because nobody had ever seen him. He has nothing in terms of stuff, and it's only a matter of time before he gets rocked.

Send him back down, put Franklin in the rotation, call back up Shack and Belisle.


Michalak saved our rear end tonight though.

keeganbrick
08-13-2006, 12:02 AM
I stongly disagree. The only reason he was sucessful is because nobody had ever seen him. He has nothing in terms of stuff, and it's only a matter of time before he gets rocked.

Send him back down, put Franklin in the rotation, call back up Shack and Belisle.


Michalak saved our rear end tonight though.
He has movement and placement (tonight anyways). Which goes a long way combined.

JTMONEY
08-13-2006, 12:02 AM
oh im sure EZ will pitch again for the reds its just these last two performances where he has absolutly blew up, and there were other games where he has pitched a great game....you just never know with young pitchers like EZ abd Homer(who could come up to the majors and pitch great for a few games and then blow up exactly how EZ has been doing lately

reds44
08-13-2006, 12:02 AM
He'll be back.

Mario-Rijo
08-13-2006, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by reds44
Send him back down, put Franklin in the rotation, call back up Shack and Belisle.


Michalak saved our rear end tonight though.

Not a bad idea I like it, let's see if the FO is on the right page with us. But I agree EZ is far from done up here. He just needs to get his mind right, and in order to do that he needs to get a better feel for how to work these batters a little better. In other words know how to pitch to your count, and for petes sake keep the ball out of the middle of the plate so much.

reds44
08-13-2006, 12:05 AM
He has movement and placement (tonight anyways). Which goes a long way combined.
So did Dave Williams.

You can't pitch without a fastball.

REDSEER
08-13-2006, 12:06 AM
Greg Maddux has his whole career.....

keeganbrick
08-13-2006, 12:06 AM
So did Dave Williams.

You can't pitch without a fastball.
Dave Williams had hardly any control besides throwing in the middle of the zone.

JTMONEY
08-13-2006, 12:07 AM
reds44 IMO i would give michalak one more chance and if he pitches a decent game keep him up and if he does blow it send him down and put franklin in the rotation

reds44
08-13-2006, 12:07 AM
Greg Maddux has his whole career.....
Maddux threw a fastball in the upper 80s most of his carrer.


Michalak struggles to reach 80.


reds44 IMO i would give michalak one more chance and if he pitches a decent game keep him up and if he does blow it send him down and put franklin in the rotation
You can't afford to do that this time of year. Lefties can't touch Shack. Get him up here. Belisle is a pretty good, young pitcher. If he is healthy activate him.

Don't get fooled by what Michalak did tonight.

11larkin11
08-13-2006, 12:12 AM
Michalak DESERVES another start. I know that he will get rocked eventually, once teams have gotten a scouting report on him. But he deserved it, he's 35, why not give him another shot. Do like you did tonight with Franklin right behind him, but I would have taken EZ out after that first inning HR. I knew last night that EZ would get rocked today.

reds44
08-13-2006, 12:13 AM
Michalak DESERVES another start. I know that he will get rocked eventually, once teams have gotten a scouting report on him. But he deserved it, he's 35, why not give him another shot. Do like you did tonight with Franklin right behind him, but I would have taken EZ out after that first inning HR. I knew last night that EZ would get rocked today.
Read the last part of the bolded area, then read the 1st. There is your answer.


You can't afford to pitch him when you are in a pennant race.

And if Narron does give him another start and when he does get rocked, many of you same people will be ripping on Narron.

JTMONEY
08-13-2006, 12:14 AM
i really would like michalak to stay up in the majors because he was hitting his spots really well and not many of our other starters can do that

keeganbrick
08-13-2006, 12:15 AM
Do you think Franklin is that much of an upgrade from Michalak, I really dont see it.

reds44
08-13-2006, 12:18 AM
Do you think Franklin is that much of an upgrade from Michalak, I really dont see it.
Yes.

Ryan Franklin has a career 4.35 ERA. That isn't bad at all.

Chris Michalak is a 35 year old lefty and hasn't been able to EVER stick with a big league team.

Don't fall in love with him. I hope Wayne doesn't.

Tom Servo
08-13-2006, 12:19 AM
Needed to happen

EKURed
08-13-2006, 12:23 AM
Yes.

Ryan Franklin has a career 4.35 ERA. That isn't bad at all.

Chris Michalak is a 35 year old lefty and hasn't been able to EVER stick with a big league team.

Don't fall in love with him. I hope Wayne doesn't.

Exactly. Let's not count on a repeat performance of tonight. Let's be happy and thankful for it, but I wouldn't necessarily count on a repeat next time out. Germano would look good on the mound....OOPS!

keeganbrick
08-13-2006, 12:30 AM
I'm not falling in love with him, but I dont think that Franklin will do much better than him. They will both give you the same thing in the long run. The key is Lohse keeping up what he is doing, which I actually think he will for the rest of the year at least.

Razor Shines
08-13-2006, 12:37 AM
Yeah I'd say I'm in the camp of any quality innings we got/get from Michalak are a bonus.
I'd probably keep him on the team until Belisle is 100% ready, kind of wary about giving Michalak a start though.

dieselman44
08-13-2006, 12:49 AM
EZ for Mota, do it now

REDSEER
08-13-2006, 12:50 AM
A 23 year old starter for a washed up setup man???

No thank you.....

KronoRed
08-13-2006, 12:55 AM
Glad they didn't wait.

chicoruiz
08-13-2006, 01:02 AM
Michalik is the kind of guy who may only be good for once around the league, but once around the league sounds pretty good to me right now.

Dunner44
08-13-2006, 01:29 AM
I don't know if Belisle is ready yet, but do we really need another lefty? 4 in the pen is still crazy. We'd essentially have 2 LOOGY because cormier was used primarily in that role in Philly. If Belisle can't go, Franklin gets the nod and Michalak stays as the long reliever. He deserves that much, but another start? Not sure.

reds44
08-13-2006, 01:38 AM
I don't know if Belisle is ready yet, but do we really need another lefty? 4 in the pen is still crazy. We'd essentially have 2 LOOGY because cormier was used primarily in that role in Philly. If Belisle can't go, Franklin gets the nod and Michalak stays as the long reliever. He deserves that much, but another start? Not sure.
How is Cormier a loogy? Lefties hit better off of him then righties do.

ChatterRed
08-13-2006, 01:50 AM
This is a pathetic thread.

Michalak? Ramirez? Franklin?

Geez.......I just realized that now we only have 3 legit starters when I thought with Ramirez (when he was holding his own) we were only 1 starter short.

Why do I have visions of THE TITANIC right now?

2001MUgrad
08-13-2006, 01:59 AM
Hmmm,

Has EZ pitched well since he was sent down to Loserville at the All-Star Break?? Baseball is as much mental as physical. I hope the Reds didn't screw this kid up, but they may very well have.

Doc. Scott
08-13-2006, 02:05 AM
Hmmm,

Has EZ pitched well since he was sent down to Loserville at the All-Star Break?? Baseball is as much mental as physical. I hope the Reds didn't screw this kid up, but they may very well have.

Uh, yes. He had the start where he struck out seven straight Astros. He also had a quality start against Colorado right after the ASG.

That's pretty much it, though. Aside from those two it's been eleven hits in five innings against Milwaukee, five runs in 4.2 against LA, and the floggings at the hands of St. Louis and Philadelphia.

jmcclain19
08-13-2006, 02:11 AM
Good Grief people.

The amount of short shrift everyone here lately has for guys who struggle astounds me.

The moment anyone hits a bump in the road it's throw them to the dumpster, lets find another flavor du joir before they have a bad outing and are "Terrible and deserve to be demoted to Billings".

Ramirez has been the Reds 3rd best pitcher this year. Sometimes 2nd best.

EZ has 10 quality starts this year. He's still 23.

Lets use some context folks.

Even good pitchers still have bad outings. Even the best teams still lose 4 out of every 10 games. Even the best hitters still make an out 60% of the time.

That's baseball

TOBTTReds
08-13-2006, 02:49 AM
Thread of the year for Reds44. I feel everything he has said is right on. You are very wise for your age Reds44.

TeamBoone
08-13-2006, 03:35 AM
:eek: In all honesty it should have been Billings. I will be shocked if Ramirez ever pitches for the Reds again. His recent performances demonstrate either a) a complete lack of preparation or b) the worse case of psychological damage since Brian Reith. If he were a horse they would have shot him.

That's a bit harsh.

He pitched pretty well until recently. Remember he's only 23 and a rookie.

I'd be more inclined to think he's just out of gas. It's a long season for a rookie pitcher. I think he'll be just fine in the long run.

reds44
08-13-2006, 03:37 AM
Thread of the year for Reds44. I feel everything he has said is right on. You are very wise for your age Reds44.
:)

Thanks.

KronoRed
08-13-2006, 04:28 AM
I think EZ is fine, if he'd been Reithed he would have tanked it a lot earlier.

icehole3
08-13-2006, 07:47 AM
you cant survive throwing total junk, he has to mix in a fastball somewhere. These guys will adjust ASAP.

forfreelin04
08-13-2006, 07:57 AM
Thread of the year for Reds44. I feel everything he has said is right on. You are very wise for your age Reds44.

Try not to agree with the fact he said Michalek shouldnt be given starts in a pennant race. There is no rule that says you have to have big league playoff experience to do well down the stretch. Some guys step up and some don't. Some press for fear of not doing enough (Griffey) and make matters worse. Look at Reds44's lifemate in Edwin, no real experience in anything of real importance and yet he is getting big hit after big hit. There isnt a huge scouting report on Edwin in the Major Leagues. Should we not play him because eventually the rest of baseball will catch up? At this point in the season, you ride a guy until he comes back down to earth. This guy pitched a wail of a game under extreme duress for a ballclub hes never been with. In a playoff run and in the playoffs its the miniscule players that make or break you. Until he breaks he has my vote.

forfreelin04
08-13-2006, 08:05 AM
you cant survive throwing total junk, he has to mix in a fastball somewhere. These guys will adjust ASAP.

Sure you can. As long as you can locate all of it and change speeds. But I agree with you they will adjust if he is slotted as a starter for the rest of the season. However, in two or three innings here or there and a spot start every couple of weeks we might get by with him.

What's funny is most of you seemed to expect him to fail. This season has been anything but predictable my fellow Reds fanatics. Learn to accept the least expected outcome!

jamess697
08-13-2006, 10:44 AM
EZ has been outmatched by hitters all year long. He throws strikes yes, but professional hitters hit strikes. I personaly like EZ but he is not a major league pitcher, and possibly never will be.

Newman4
08-13-2006, 10:48 AM
Could the roster spot be filled by the DFA'd Preston Wilson?

As for the Michalak, Franklin, EZ debate, I prefer Homer, but will settle for Franklin.

Just think, the #4 spot is now securely held by one Mr. Kyle Lohse.

dunner13
08-13-2006, 10:52 AM
Bring up Belisle to start. The guy throws in the mid 90's, when healthy he has dominate stuff. His arm should be pretty fresh, let him step into the rotation, teams havent seen him very much so he might be able to help us make a run at the playoffs. It just seems to me that were wasting a guy that throws 95 by only pitching him in the 7th inning, when he has the stuff to start and possible be pretty good. Michalak and franklin are better suited for relief.

SanDiegoRed
08-13-2006, 10:53 AM
Randy Jones won a Cy Young Award with throwing nothing but soft tossing junk....

KySteveH
08-13-2006, 11:42 AM
you cant survive throwing total junk, he has to mix in a fastball somewhere. These guys will adjust ASAP.
Michalak did fine last night spotting his 83 mph "fastball".

Redhook
08-13-2006, 11:54 AM
Bring up Belisle to start. The guy throws in the mid 90's, when healthy he has dominate stuff. His arm should be pretty fresh, let him step into the rotation, teams havent seen him very much so he might be able to help us make a run at the playoffs. It just seems to me that were wasting a guy that throws 95 by only pitching him in the 7th inning, when he has the stuff to start and possible be pretty good. Michalak and franklin are better suited for relief.

Belisle has some of the best "stuff" in the organization. Unfortunately, he doesn't have a clue where it's going half the time. If he didn't have his control he'd have a tough time lasting a couple of innings. Not a good quality for a starter. He'll be back in our bullpen and will hopefully do well there.

JTMONEY
08-13-2006, 11:54 AM
if michalak can keep hitting his spots he did last night he should get at least two more starts because he can have an off day his next start but can come back his next start and pitch a gem

JTMONEY
08-13-2006, 11:56 AM
IMO i would not bring up belisle if he is not healthy enough to pitch for us, wait until he is 100%

TRF
08-13-2006, 01:25 PM
EZ has been outmatched by hitters all year long. He throws strikes yes, but professional hitters hit strikes. I personaly like EZ but he is not a major league pitcher, and possibly never will be.

Completely ridiculous.

EZ is a 23 year old rookie, that has pitched at times quite well. It's a learning curve pitching in the bigs. He has location, and a prety decent fastball. he needs a little savvy and deception.

BTW Arroyo has stunk for quite some time now.

TOBTTReds
08-13-2006, 08:59 PM
Try not to agree with the fact he said Michalek shouldnt be given starts in a pennant race. There is no rule that says you have to have big league playoff experience to do well down the stretch. Some guys step up and some don't. Some press for fear of not doing enough (Griffey) and make matters worse. Look at Reds44's lifemate in Edwin, no real experience in anything of real importance and yet he is getting big hit after big hit. There isnt a huge scouting report on Edwin in the Major Leagues. Should we not play him because eventually the rest of baseball will catch up? At this point in the season, you ride a guy until he comes back down to earth. This guy pitched a wail of a game under extreme duress for a ballclub hes never been with. In a playoff run and in the playoffs its the miniscule players that make or break you. Until he breaks he has my vote.

I understand what you are saying, but you cannot compare EdE to Michalek. Edwin is gonna be a star, and is playing like it already. CM is a 35 year old that has been around, and not been successful anywhere really. He wasn't even very good in AAA (with little scouting report). CM has just about no stuff. He has pitched in 54 games in an 8 year career! That says something. It's almost like Chris Hammond accidentally pitching 6 shutout innings, it has happened, doesn't mean I want him starting a game for me.

Chris pitched great the other day for us, no doubt. But I don't want to keep chancing it with his stuff in huge games for us. I think he had the adreniline (sp?) going but this would be very tough to repeat. I would go with Ryan Franklin next start over Michalek.

forfreelin04
08-14-2006, 06:20 AM
I understand what you are saying, but you cannot compare EdE to Michalek. Edwin is gonna be a star, and is playing like it already. CM is a 35 year old that has been around, and not been successful anywhere really. He wasn't even very good in AAA (with little scouting report). CM has just about no stuff. He has pitched in 54 games in an 8 year career! That says something. It's almost like Chris Hammond accidentally pitching 6 shutout innings, it has happened, doesn't mean I want him starting a game for me.

Chris pitched great the other day for us, no doubt. But I don't want to keep chancing it with his stuff in huge games for us. I think he had the adreniline (sp?) going but this would be very tough to repeat. I would go with Ryan Franklin next start over Michalek.

The life mate thing was just a poke at Reds44 for his love affair with Edwin which has been paying dividends cept for that E in the 9th earlier today. In no way did I intend to make a connection between the pitcher and our emerging star at 3rd base. However, I think Michaelk will get a start and deservedly so. If he bombs, he bombs. Start Franklin the next time. This Reds team has no rhyme to its reason AvesIce and I hope your enjoying slash loathing it as much as I am.