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View Full Version : Ethical question: What price for a trophy?



Spitball
08-14-2006, 05:36 PM
I saw this being discussed on another board and wondered how Redszoners might feel.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/rick_reilly/08/07/reilly0814/index.html?cnn=yes

NJReds
08-14-2006, 05:37 PM
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50018

TOBTTReds
08-14-2006, 05:38 PM
This coach should be fired. Ridiculous.

reds44
08-14-2006, 05:41 PM
This coach should be fired. Ridiculous.
I disagree. Many of us have played on little league teams with rules just like this one, it didn't make me want to win any less. If I were playing for the team I would have wanted to walk the good hitter. That is what happend.

I bet the parents of the cancer survivor wants their son to be treated like everyone else, well that is what happend.

Why did the coach hit his worst hitter right behind his best one? It never occured to him that they might walk the good hitter? Or was he just using the cancer survivor because he didn't think anyone would pitch around the good hitter to get to the cancer survivor?

Btw I have a brother who has difficulties. He didn't survive cancer, but he did almost die at birth so I can sort of understand what the parent and family of the kid was going through.

NJReds
08-14-2006, 05:45 PM
Maybe they shouldn't keep score and give out trophies for that age group.

Ltlabner
08-14-2006, 05:49 PM
If the father wanted his son to be treated as normal and without regard to his physical limitations, he should not be upset when the other team treats his son as normal and ignores his physical limitations.

IMO if the parents don't want their son to face any difficult sitations on the baseball field, they should not allow him to play baseball.

And I'm sure his son, a cancer survivor is really thrilled to be thought of as "the weakest chick in the flock" by his father.

ochre
08-14-2006, 05:57 PM
What price for an article?

RedlegJake
08-14-2006, 06:02 PM
My father coached for several years in PONY BASEBALL in Saint Joseph, Missouri. He became disgusted overall with the competitiveness of the coaches. This is a mild example of the stuff I've witnessed when a coach wants to win beyond anything else. Travel teams, long distance tournaments, expensive fancy uniforms, special "competitive only" leagues that start at age 7, high end trophies for the coach with the boys getting little plastic replicas. I could go on but my point is that this ultra competitiveness got way out of hand. Fathers of 10 year olds defended their 'in your face all out coaching styles' by claiming it was a boon for their son who was a "serious" athlete with dreams of the big leagues. A 10 year old mind you. These guys spend thousands of dollars annually on these tourneys and uniforms and all kind of special gear. Their sons have grown up alongside my own. None went pro at any level. Most didn't even play HS ball. My sons, who I refused to put into the "competitive" AAA league, played in the city's rec league where every kid gets a chance. Both played HS ball and were starters for Benton HS here. Both wound up just as good, and in most cases, better than their "serious" 10 year athlete friends. Stories like the one linked to above simply abound because want to live out their dreams of glory through their sons - this one just resonates because of the cancer survivor angle.

I should add that every kid who fails gets upset but this Romney has the right stuff - witness his turn around the next day. There's a young man who learned from the game.

TOBTTReds
08-14-2006, 06:05 PM
Why did the coach hit his worst hitter right behind his best one? It never occured to him that they might walk the good hitter? Or was he just using the cancer survivor because he didn't think anyone would pitch around the good hitter to get to the cancer survivor?



That's the coach I'm talking about;)

I mentioned that on a football message board that had this story posted too.

The kid was what, 9 or 10? Come on now. That is a bit ridiculous.

TOBTTReds
08-14-2006, 06:15 PM
BREAKING NEWS - August 14, 2006

Narron Defends Lineup

Utah - After months of having Rich Aurilia batting cleanup for the Cincinnati Reds, Jerry Narron's most recent lineup was questioned again. His best hitter was protected by the worst hitter and it cost him a championship.

"My best player was batting 3rd, and our cleanup hitter is a battler. Romney's been through a lot lately. He is 10 years old, so he is a vet in this 9-10 year old league." So why not bat him fourth, right?

The game was on the line and the oppossing team walked the 3-hitter to get to the cleanup spot, something you only see with lineups penned by Narron.

"It wasn't a surprise when it happened. I saw it a lot in Cincy this year when I had my good hitters protected by Aurilia. But Romney is scrappy and a battler, just like Rich."

The plan didn't work out though. The kid battled but struck out to lose the championship. Another chance at victory squandered by a questionable lineup. Narron said he expects no changes though, and Romney will be at SS again next year in the 11 year old league, and batting 2nd or 4th.

Spitball
08-14-2006, 06:36 PM
I really don't know why the coach batted Romney after the power hitter, but I can't imagine how that could be an issue. Maybe Romney was inserted into the line-up for an injured player. I can't see that as an issue. To me, Romney's coach shouldn't be held responsible for a poor line-up because that might be stupidity, a matter out of his control, or just a poor choice based on something that isn't clear, and I can forgive any of those reasons.

If I'm in the same position, coaching 9-year olds, there is no question I pitch to the power hitter. Coaches of that age group should put character development and spotsmanship above trophies.

TOBTTReds
08-14-2006, 06:52 PM
I really don't know why the coach batted Romney after the power hitter, but I can't imagine how that could be an issue. Maybe Romney was inserted into the line-up for an injured player. I can't see that as an issue. To me, Romney's coach shouldn't be held responsible for a poor line-up because that might be stupidity, a matter out of his control, or just a poor choice based on something that isn't clear, and I can forgive any of those reasons.

If I'm in the same position, coaching 9-year olds, there is no question I pitch to the power hitter. Coaches of that age group should put character development and spotsmanship above trophies.

IMO, that is right on.

VR
08-14-2006, 07:00 PM
Folks have really put a good argument up for both sides. My judgement is withheld a bit, because there's a lot of unanswered questions about the situation.
What I do think, however, is that Romney's teammates and coaches have had the good fortune of witnessing a true champion on their team....something they will all remember long after those little league trophies are thrown in the trash as kids head off to college. Cancer is an ugly, nasty thing......the fact that the kid was even out there speaks volume about his courage and fight.

Crosley68
08-15-2006, 12:55 AM
You dont take bat out of a 9 year old's hands for any reason. It is a game, let them play. And I dont buy ANY of the argument that being intentionally walked is part of the game, I have witnessed way too many gung ho types living their lives through these kids.....they arent trying to teach the kids ANYTHING about the game. They just want to prove to someone how good they are..........Bob Boone wannabes.

reds44
08-15-2006, 07:09 PM
http://www.lance1530homer.com/blog.asp


What would you have done?
Kelly and I discussed this in terms of our son, six year old Casey. If he were on deck we would welcome the other team walking the best hitter to get to him.
Why? It would be challenging him.... giving him a shot to win the game.
I would not want them feeling sorry for him.
Pitching to the best hitter would be more insulting towards to my son than compassionate.
The 9-year old sounds like a hero for what he's battled thru. Let him battle at the plate.
Also.....by playing, you accepts all that comes with it.....everyone is treated the same.....no free passes because you have a special condition.
If you don't want your son placed in a position of pressure to win the game, don't play in a competitive league. I would assume the parents signed their son up to be a baseball player, not a cancer survivor.
Other issues:
If it is all about fun......don't keep score. If you are going to keep score and award a trophy, why would you pitch to the best hitter, when a weaker hitter is on deck?
I would wonder about the coaches batting order. Would Narron bat LaRue behind Dunn?
Why is the weakest hitter batting behind the best?
Why would the father call his own son the "weakest chick in the flock"?
In my opinion, the most important line of the column is what the 9-year old said the next morning. Very powerful.