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TOBTTReds
08-14-2006, 04:55 PM
This is one of my favorite things to do, because people are obsessed with NAMES. Everyone thinks so many players are great, because they once were or have had great seasons before. Comparing Edwin to Player B, another 3B.

-------Avg.--OBP---SLG--OPS
Edwin: .302--.391--.533--.924
Plyr B: .286--.388--.512--.900

Guesses on player B, shouldn't be difficult?

Ravenlord
08-14-2006, 04:57 PM
B=Alex Rodriguez

TOBTTReds
08-14-2006, 05:00 PM
Yup, anyone else surprised. Bet if you told other fans "I'd rather have Encarnacion in my lineup than A-Rod" the other fans would think you were crazy. Still might even after seeing the numbers. But I like the 25 mil cheaper part too.

lollipopcurve
08-14-2006, 05:05 PM
Nice.

I'm still awaiting the official explanation from Baseball America on why EdE was for years their poor man's Andy Marte.

OnBaseMachine
08-14-2006, 05:13 PM
Nice.

I'm still awaiting the official explanation from Baseball America on why EdE was for years their poor man's Andy Marte.

Exactly. I always said Edwin was a better prospect and would turn out to be the better player of the two.

And I'll say it right now - Jay Bruce is better and will be a better major leaguer than Cameron Maybin and Justin Upton.

RedsManRick
08-14-2006, 05:26 PM
That comparison will do us wonders in his arb years. If he can repeat those rates over 600 at bats, we need to lock him up long term ASAP.

paulrichjr
08-14-2006, 05:33 PM
Nice.

I'm still awaiting the official explanation from Baseball America on why EdE was for years their poor man's Andy Marte.

It is interesting given my conversation with a scout a couple of years ago at a Lookouts game. EdE had just hit his second homer of the game and I asked him what he thought of him. His comment was second only to Marte but it was close...(in the entire league for all position players).

When I posted this a couple of years ago I seem to remember that a lot of people were surprised...the Brewers scout obviously isn't surprised....

VR
08-14-2006, 06:06 PM
This is one of my favorite things to do, because people are obsessed with NAMES. Everyone thinks so many players are great, because they once were or have had great seasons before. Comparing Edwin to Player B, another 3B.

-------Avg.--OBP---SLG--OPS
Edwin: .302--.391--.533--.924
Plyr B: .286--.388--.512--.900

Guesses on player B, shouldn't be difficult?

Player C is right in the thick of things as well.

.310 .344 .500 .844

BRM
08-14-2006, 06:09 PM
Player C is right in the thick of things as well.

.310 .344 .500 .844

I disagree. Player C has only logged 16 at-bats as a third baseman.

VR
08-14-2006, 06:10 PM
I disagree. Player C has only logged 16 at-bats as a third baseman.

And you don't think that would continue:) ?

BRM
08-14-2006, 06:12 PM
And you don't think that would continue:) ?

The .844 OPS? Sure...in fantasy land. ;)

TC81190
08-14-2006, 07:22 PM
Exactly. I always said Edwin was a better prospect and would turn out to be the better player of the two.

And I'll say it right now - Jay Bruce is better and will be a better major leaguer than Cameron Maybin and Justin Upton.

Maybin, maybe, but I don't know about Upton, and that's not a knock on Bruce, Upton reminds me of 90's Griffey.

GAC
08-15-2006, 06:56 AM
Isn't that a pretty small window on EE to be doing a comparison?

Jpup
08-15-2006, 07:49 AM
It's a little silly to compare Edwin Encarnacion to a first ballot Hall of Famer. While EdE is a very good young player, he is not in the same class as ARod.

guttle11
08-15-2006, 10:32 AM
It's a little silly to compare Edwin Encarnacion to a first ballot Hall of Famer. While EdE is a very good young player, he is not in the same class as ARod.

There's also no mention of the fact that ARod plays in the American League East, while Edwin plays in the national League Central.

It's fun to compare like that, but sometimes you have to be realistic. If salaries didn't matter, we'd all take ARod over Edwin in a heartbeat. Impressive numbers from Edwin, though.:thumbup:

RedsManRick
08-15-2006, 10:37 AM
What about player D: .308/.384/.541

This player is 3 weeks older than EE and already considered one of the top 3B in baseball. I don't know if EE can keep it up at this pace, but 61 extra base hits in his first 466 AB tells me he's got a VERY bright future.

And FWIW, defensively:

RF/ZR/FLD%

EE: 2.85/.762/.926
D: 2.67/.756/.948

If you haven't figured it out, Player D is David Wright. IF EE can get his arm on track, you're talking about the centerpiece of a team.

Cyclone792
08-15-2006, 11:27 AM
Things I really like about Edwin ...

2005 Line Drive % = 25.2 percent
2006 Line Drive % = 24.6 percent

Career PA/2B = 1 double every 13.25 PAs
Projected 2B per 650 PAs (roughly a full season) = 49 doubles

Career PA/HR = 1 home run every 26.5 PAs
Projected HR per 650 PAs = 25 home runs

Career PA/BB = 1 walk every 11.3 PAs
Projected BB per 650 PAs = 58 walks

The high line drive percentages will help Edwin put up a very nice BA, as shown by his .302 BA so far this season, and it will additionally allow him to continue to rack up the two-baggers. He's a guy that I can easily see hitting .300 with 25 home runs, 50 doubles and 60 walks over a full season right now. And right now is at the ages of just 23-years-old.

When I think of his potential growth over the next few seasons, what's not to like? Edwin's not only a future productive bat; I think he's a future star just waiting to explode.

Ltlabner
08-15-2006, 11:32 AM
So maybe, just maybe, it was a really good idea for Narron to force EE to spend time working on this defensive short commings. Especially since RA was hot and filling the void to some degree.

Since EE projects out to be an offensive monster, and RA was there to cover the 3B, what's so horrible about forcing the youngster to hone his skills a bit? And frankly, I hope Narron is continuing to have EE and Dent working for hours a day on EE's leg work/throwing/timing, etc.

That way the Reds are beneficaries of both his good offense AND defense for the strech run and years to come (we hope).

membengal
08-15-2006, 12:09 PM
Or maybe, just maybe, Narron and the Reds were categorically insane to deny the offense EE's goodness for that long stretch of time after his ankle was better.

I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this rather than revisiting that argument...

Ltlabner
08-15-2006, 12:22 PM
Or maybe, just maybe, Narron and the Reds were categorically insane to deny the offense EE's goodness for that long stretch of time after his ankle was better.

I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this rather than revisiting that argument...

Is that the same "offensive goodness" that almost lost the game for us on Sunday? The same "offensive goodness" that would have been completley erased by one error in the 9th inning? Which, by the way, was something that was touted to never happen because his bat would faarrrrr outweigh his deffensive issues.

Yet, just as reciently as two days ago we have a prime example of where one of his errors almost destroyed a Reds victory.

But yes, we can agree to disagree because along with "the trade" I rank EE vs RA as a complete window dressing argument.

membengal
08-15-2006, 12:24 PM
Or the same "offensive goodness" that had them in the winning position on Sunday? Yes.

gonelong
08-15-2006, 12:49 PM
Is that the same "offensive goodness" that almost lost the game for us on Sunday? The same "offensive goodness" that would have been completley erased by one error in the 9th inning?

I think you are missing the offensive goodness that has us in the game in the first place. EE went 2-5 with a HR, 2 RBIs and a walk that game. If you don't have his bat in the lineup the Reds likely aren't in a position where that play makes a difference to begin with.


Which, by the way, was something that was touted to never happen because his bat would faarrrrr outweigh his deffensive issues.

Really? Someone claimed that he would NEVER make an error that might outweigh his offensive contribution for a single game? You'll have to show me, because I must have missed that one.



Yet, just as reciently as two days ago we have a prime example of where one of his errors almost destroyed a Reds victory.

But yes, we can agree to disagree because along with "the trade" I rank EE vs RA as a complete window dressing argument.

A victory he had a large hand in creating, nonetheless ... and a victory that would have been much more in doubt if you replaced his ABs with another players.

IIRC the play in question .... I don't think the Reds have another player on their roster that would have flagged that ball down anyway. That ball is in LF with RA or Castro at 3B. Freel might have gotten to it.

GL

Ltlabner
08-15-2006, 01:03 PM
I think you are missing the offensive goodness that has us in the game in the first place. EE went 2-5 with a HR, 2 RBIs and a walk that game. If you don't have his bat in the lineup the Reds likely aren't in a position where that play makes a difference to begin with.

Doesn't matter if he hit 4 grand slams. If he blows the game at the end with an error, what good is his offsensive production?


Really? Someone claimed that he would NEVER make an error that might outweigh his offensive contribution for a single game? You'll have to show me, because I must have missed that one.

Obviously hyperbole on my part. But the main gists of peoples arugments were that his def issues were out weighed by his bat. Again, if he costs us a game with an error, what good is any of his production at the plate?

reds44
08-15-2006, 01:19 PM
Doesn't matter if he hit 4 grand slams. If he blows the game at the end with an error, what good is his offsensive production?



Obviously hyperbole on my part. But the main gists of peoples arugments were that his def issues were out weighed by his bat. Again, if he costs us a game with an error, what good is any of his production at the plate?
Because without his bat we wouldn't have a chance to blow the game in the 9th?

dsmith421
08-15-2006, 01:29 PM
Obviously hyperbole on my part. But the main gists of peoples arugments were that his def issues were out weighed by his bat. Again, if he costs us a game with an error, what good is any of his production at the plate?

Without his production at the plate in Sunday's game, the Phillies would have won in nine innings. At least if you're going to pick a game for this tiresome crusade, pick one where the kid goes 0-4 before making a big error.

Ltlabner
08-15-2006, 01:34 PM
At least if you're going to pick a game for this tiresome crusade, pick one where the kid goes 0-4 before making a big error.

Yes, yes. Wanting solid defense to go with the impressive offense. How passe and tiresome....:rolleyes:

Ltlabner
08-15-2006, 01:36 PM
Because without his bat we wouldn't have a chance to blow the game in the 9th?


I'm not discounting that in the least. But again, I ask, if he does blow the game with an error, what difference does any of those offensive highlights mean?

RedsManRick
08-15-2006, 01:45 PM
I'm not discounting that in the least. But again, I ask, if he does blow the game with an error, what difference does any of those offensive highlights mean?

Because the implication of your statement is that we'd be better off with a better glove man even if it cost us the offensive production. If you take his offensive production out of the picture, the glove work, good or bad, becomes functionally irrelevent because you aren't in a position to win the game. You are implying a false dichotomy.

Obviously not making an error is better than making an error. However, in order for the error to be relevent, you have to be in a position to win the game. If you take the offense away and we're down 2 runs in the 9th, who cares about the error? We would've lost anyways.

Ltlabner
08-15-2006, 01:51 PM
Because the implication of your statement is that we'd be better off with a better glove man even if it cost us the offensive production.

What I meant to imply is that it's better to have EE working on his defense to complement his impressive offensive tallents so we can do both well. Then we don't have to worry about last minute errors erasing victories and stellar offensive performances.

The time he put into working on D (and hopefully continuing to do so) will pay off HUGE dividends for the Reds.

I hate the idea of sliding in the good glove man at the end of the game because a position player can't cut it with his glove. Fundamentally that hurts the team in taking away a bat in the late innings, taking a player off the bench, etc.

That is why I think it was a GOOD move for Narron to force the issue and make EE work on his D. Forget whether he should have been playing over RA, I'm not talking about that. I'm just saying that it's a GOOD thing for EE to be good with his glove/throwing arm as he is with his bat.

The_jbh
08-15-2006, 01:53 PM
EE has played some pretty good 3B lately in early innings. I saw him make some great grabs when i went to the 1st 2 games of the cards series.


Keep him in the line up and do what we've been doing, put castro or Aurilla at 3rd for the 8th and 9th, hopefully every game doesnt keep going to extras where we miss his bat

edabbs44
08-15-2006, 01:55 PM
wrg thread

RedsManRick
08-15-2006, 01:59 PM
What I meant to imply is that it's better to have EE working on his defense to complement his impressive offensive tallents so we can do both well. Then we don't have to worry about last minute errors erasing victories and stellar offensive performances.

The time he put into working on D (and hopefully continuing to do so) will pay off HUGE dividends for the Reds.

I hate the idea of sliding in the good glove man at the end of the game because a position player can't cut it with his glove. Fundamentally that hurts the team in taking away a bat in the late innings, taking a player off the bench, etc.

That is why I think it was a GOOD move for Narron to force the issue and make EE work on his D. Forget whether he should have been playing over RA, I'm not talking about that. I'm just saying that it's a GOOD thing for EE to be good with his glove/throwing arm as he is with his bat.

Is anybody disagreeing with the point that it's good for him to improve his game defensively? I think the problem is that it is not necessary for him to be out of the lineup while he works on his defense. He can do both. His offensive production is so good, and the offensive production Clayton/Castro is so poor, that we're better off with him in the lineup and a shaky glove at 3B while he's improving than playing the pure glove man.

Cedric
08-15-2006, 02:10 PM
I'd play Edwin without a glove before I'd take him out for Rich/Royce.

Ltlabner
08-15-2006, 02:14 PM
Is anybody disagreeing with the point that it's good for him to improve his game defensively? I think the problem is that it is not necessary for him to be out of the lineup while he works on his defense. He can do both

And my comment, that got this back-and-forth started was that since we had RA to fill the void it wasn't the dumbest move on the planet as some have proclaimed. Now that RA has cooled off, and EE is obviously red hot at the plate EE should be in the game. Obviously the orginization values EE (or else he would have been traded like Lopez) because they can see into the future that with even medicore D combined with his offensive performance EE could be a fixture here for a long time.

But I don't see anything wrong with Narron driving the point home with EE by forcing him to work on his D while not playing. To make the point, "I don't care how good your offense is, you have to improve your D", especially while EE is young and in somewhat of an "impressionable" time in his carear.

And you say "he can do both" meaning improve D while playing. But the fact is, he wasn't improving when the job was soley his prior to his ankle situation. He didn't improve at all. So I don't think he is capabile of doing both....if he was, he would have done it. This is further supported because EE has played some pretty solid D since returning to the starting role. Since spending the time focusing on it. And now we are reaping the benifit of this, as we get into a strech drive, when RA is needed elsewhere (ie. SS). How is that a bad thing?

Cedric
08-15-2006, 02:26 PM
And my comment, that got this back-and-forth started was that since we had RA to fill the void it wasn't the dumbest move on the planet as some have proclaimed. Now that RA has cooled off, and EE is obviously red hot at the plate EE should be in the game. Obviously the orginization values EE (or else he would have been traded like Lopez) because they can see into the future that with even medicore D combined with his offensive performance EE could be a fixture here for a long time.

But I don't see anything wrong with Narron driving the point home with EE by forcing him to work on his D while not playing. To make the point, "I don't care how good your offense is, you have to improve your D", especially while EE is young and in somewhat of an "impressionable" time in his carear.

And you say "he can do both" meaning improve D while playing. But the fact is, he wasn't improving when the job was soley his prior to his ankle situation. He didn't improve at all. So I don't think he is capabile of doing both....if he was, he would have done it. This is further supported because EE has played some pretty solid D since returning to the starting role. Since spending the time focusing on it. And now we are reaping the benifit of this, as we get into a strech drive, when RA is needed elsewhere (ie. SS). How is that a bad thing?

I actually think he was improving when he was playing. Experience makes a player better. Rich Aurilia isn't an upgrade defensively either, so I don't see how playing him over Edwin accomplished anything but to possibly lose a few games that will keep us out of the playoffs.

I really can't find even one decent defense for Edwin not playing over Rich Aurilia. It cost us dearly and I just hope it doesn't cost us a playoff berth.

dsmith421
08-15-2006, 02:30 PM
Yes, yes. Wanting solid defense to go with the impressive offense. How passe and tiresome....:rolleyes:

You provide absolutely no solution to the problem--all you do is complain. You want Encarnacion to somehow morph into a plus fielder while sitting on the bench in every crucial situation. How in the world does that work?

Also, his stab on that ball on which he almost threw Rollins out was INCREDIBLE. It was Brooks Robinson-esque. Leave the kid alone for God's sake. He's obviously doing the right things and improving.

Ltlabner
08-15-2006, 02:42 PM
You provide absolutely no solution to the problem--all you do is complain. You want Encarnacion to somehow morph into a plus fielder while sitting on the bench in every crucial situation. How in the world does that work?

Also, his stab on that ball on which he almost threw Rollins out was INCREDIBLE. It was Brooks Robinson-esque. Leave the kid alone for God's sake. He's obviously doing the right things and improving.

There isn't a soultion to offer because the problem, apparently, has been addressed. EE put in a lot of extra effort with Bucky Dent and it's paying off. With the exception of Sunday he's been much, much improved. That's one way for a player to improve, put in extra work. Dunn spent a bunch of time in the batting cage working on his swing when he was slumping, and guess what? He started hitting better. Amazing!

I didn't say he wasn't improving, he is. That's my whole point! The time he put in is paying off for the Reds. Time spent focusing on how he can improve his D.

Cedric
08-15-2006, 02:47 PM
He was always focusing on improving his defense. Game experience would have helped him even more.

I doubt very much that Edwin is playing better defense now because he was forced to sit out games for Rich. I don't get that arguement.

It's not like he was taking infield during the games or anything.

Ltlabner
08-15-2006, 02:49 PM
He was always focusing on improving his defense. Game experience would have helped him even more.

I doubt very much that Edwin is playing better defense now because he was forced to sit out games for Rich. I don't get that arguement.

It's not like he was taking infield during the games or anything.

He spent "hours" daily working with Bucky Dent on his fielding, apparently for some period of time. It was reported here on several occasions. One article referenced Narron complementing EE's dilligent work.

TRF
08-15-2006, 02:53 PM
Is that the same "offensive goodness" that almost lost the game for us on Sunday? The same "offensive goodness" that would have been completley erased by one error in the 9th inning? Which, by the way, was something that was touted to never happen because his bat would faarrrrr outweigh his deffensive issues.

Yet, just as reciently as two days ago we have a prime example of where one of his errors almost destroyed a Reds victory.

But yes, we can agree to disagree because along with "the trade" I rank EE vs RA as a complete window dressing argument.

Then you better go back to friday, when his bat was ALL the Reds had, and when it was removed, so was the win. goes both ways.

osuceltic
08-15-2006, 02:54 PM
He was always focusing on improving his defense. Game experience would have helped him even more.

I doubt very much that Edwin is playing better defense now because he was forced to sit out games for Rich. I don't get that arguement.

It's not like he was taking infield during the games or anything.
Ah, but maybe he got the message. It's not a bad thing for young players to learn they have to keep working to improve once they get to the big leagues. Edwin had plenty of time to work on his defense last season and in the offseason and spring training, and he was terrible for the first half of the season. Suddenly, when his playing time suffers, he starts to improve. Maybe that's a coincidence, but maybe not. Maybe the pine time was a little bit of a wakeup call that he has to work hard AND get it done defensively in the games if he wants to see his name on that lineup card every day.

And if that's the case, isn't that good managing by Narron. I know it will pain most of you to admit that, but I think he has handled Edwin pretty well to the point he's getting the absolute max out of him at the most important part of the season. Narron certainly deserves some bashing from time to time, but I think his handling of Encarnacion has been very good.

Ravenlord
08-15-2006, 02:54 PM
He spent "hours" daily working with Bucky Dent on his fielding, apparently for some period of time.
from the spring to present minus the DL time.

Ltlabner
08-15-2006, 02:56 PM
Then you better go back to friday, when his bat was ALL the Reds had, and when it was removed, so was the win. goes both ways.

I agree....which is why I think it's good they forced EE to work on his defense. So we can truely take advantage of his tallents as a player.

I hate the idea of late inning d-replacements. So again, by addressing the D issue EE can stay around and help the Reds on both O and D late in games. That's a good thing for the Reds.

Cedric
08-15-2006, 02:59 PM
A player at this level is who he is. Edwin Encarnacion is not greatly improved defensively from early in the year to now, he just isn't.

It's all perception and coach speak that blows that myth up.

He was better than Rich before and he's better than Rich now. He still makes bad throws and has bad footwork at time. It's gonna happen to someone with limited experience.

Game experience is where someone improves their defense. There is nothing Bucky Dent can do to simulate live action. Edwin's problems are mental and rushing issues which have everything to do with the speed of the game.

TRF
08-15-2006, 03:03 PM
A player at this level is who he is. Edwin Encarnacion is not greatly improved defensively from early in the year to now, he just isn't.

It's all perception and coach speak that blows that myth up.

He was better than Rich before and he's better than Rich now. He still makes bad throws and has bad footwork at time. It's gonna happen to someone with limited experience.

I'd agree with this if he were 26, but he's 23. He can develop as a fielder just like he can at the plate.

And the only way he can develop is reps, reps, reps. Never take him out for a defensive replacement. That hinders his growth, and weakens the bench at the same time.

Cedric
08-15-2006, 03:06 PM
I'd agree with this if he were 26, but he's 23. He can develop as a fielder just like he can at the plate.

And the only way he can develop is reps, reps, reps. Never take him out for a defensive replacement. That hinders his growth, and weakens the bench at the same time.

No we agree totally. Game reps is the only thing that will make him better. I just feel that the only thing that can help someone at this level is game experience. You can have Bucky Dent fungo balls for three hours that's not what was wrong with Edwin.

Ltlabner
08-15-2006, 03:07 PM
A player at this level is who he is. Edwin Encarnacion is not greatly improved defensively from early in the year to now, he just isn't.

It's all perception and coach speak that blows that myth up.

He was better than Rich before and he's better than Rich now. He still makes bad throws and has bad footwork at time. It's gonna happen to someone with limited experience.

Game experience is where someone improves their defense. There is nothing Bucky Dent can do to simulate live action. Edwin's problems are mental and rushing issues which have everything to do with the speed of the game.

So the extra time players put in the batting cage is wasted? The time Dunn spent working on hitting to the left side to defeat the shift had no impact him working out of his slump? So bullpen sessions are a complete waste of time?

You gotta start with good mechanics so when you get to game speed your natural tallent and instincts can take over without having to stop to think, "put my left foot forward....." before throwing a ball.

Cedric
08-15-2006, 03:08 PM
That extra time would be completely negated if you sit out the next week.

Taking infield and batting practice help make players stay sharp, they don't greatly improve one's ability level.

Ltlabner
08-15-2006, 03:11 PM
You can have Bucky Dent fungo balls for three hours that's not what was wrong with Edwin.

I'm sorry....I am still giggling from reading this.

Yes, I have the humor level of a 8 year old.

:help:

osuceltic
08-15-2006, 03:30 PM
That extra time would be completely negated if you sit out the next week.

Taking infield and batting practice help make players stay sharp, they don't greatly improve one's ability level.
This is just wrong. If the only practice he gets is game situations, he may see three or four chances a day. He's not going to get better that way.

You improve with practice. If you can't make the plays during the game, you deserve to be benched for defensive replacements. This is the big leagues. The score matters.

TOBTTReds
08-15-2006, 03:37 PM
Honestly, I don't think much is wrong with him defensively, except his head!

In 2004, the Baseball America Prospect Handbook had EdE listed with the best infield arm in the whole organization! Right now, he looks to have a bad arm. So what changed? I think he is chuck knoblaching the ball and it is all in his head.

His defense still saved their butts with some nice plays despite a very costly error. RA doesn't make half those plays Edwin did.

Ced, practice makes perfect, not just for tomorrow.

reds44
08-15-2006, 03:42 PM
Edwin has an amazing arm, he just doesn't know where it is going all the time.

TOBTTReds
08-15-2006, 03:48 PM
"I loved the way we came out there in the ninth," Reds manager Jerry Narron said after the game, a 9-7 win for the Reds. "Encarnacion is tremendous. [He] went down and got it for a base hit. It just shows you how far Eddie has come this year."

I love your sig, because Edwin appearantly was a bad hitter with no patience earlier this year, even though he led the team in RBI's when he got hurt!!!! Narron please....

Ravenlord
08-15-2006, 04:08 PM
i think people should go back and look at the first two or three years of every single far ranging left-side infielder with a good arm.

dsmith421
08-15-2006, 04:10 PM
i think people should go back and look at the first two or three years of every single far ranging left-side infielder with a good arm.

Start with the sainted Dave Concepcion.

I read in Olney's book that Derek Jeter made something like 60 errors in Single-A ball. It's a growing and learning process that requires patience at the helm.

GAC
08-15-2006, 08:41 PM
EE has played some darn good defense as of late, and I think that is due to the fact that this team/coaches worked long and hard with EE (as well as EE) in working and improving that aspect of his game, and DIDN't give up on him or try to cast him aside, thinking he wouldn't pan out.

That theory has now proven to be wrong seeing that EE has been in there.

Ron Madden
08-16-2006, 05:04 AM
I agree....which is why I think it's good they forced EE to work on his defense. So we can truely take advantage of his tallents as a player.

I hate the idea of late inning d-replacements. So again, by addressing the D issue EE can stay around and help the Reds on both O and D late in games. That's a good thing for the Reds.


You make it sound like they had to beat Edwin with a whip to FORCE him into working on his defense. ;) You do know that Edwin works with Dent everyday no matter if Narron has him in the line up or not.

Nothing beats actual game experience any way you look at it.

paulrichjr
08-16-2006, 10:25 AM
Has been beat to death but personally I think EdE makes some incredible plays that RichA never touches. He might make two great stabs in a game that saves two hits (or extra bases) and then makes one bad throw on another play and everyone including Narron wants to sit him for his bad defense. Over a full year I bet he would get to 50 extra balls that Rich wouldn't get to and make 20 more errors...Everyone would be talking about the errors...

Ravenlord
08-16-2006, 03:10 PM
Has been beat to death but personally I think EdE makes some incredible plays that RichA never touches. He might make two great stabs in a game that saves two hits (or extra bases) and then makes one bad throw on another play and everyone including Narron wants to sit him for his bad defense. Over a full year I bet he would get to 50 extra balls that Rich wouldn't get to and make 20 more errors...Everyone would be talking about the errors...
over the last three seasons, the average Total Chances for starting 3B is 350.

if you believe that Encarnacion gets to 10% more balls than the average ranged thirdbasemen, that gives him 385 chances. with a 900 FPCT, that is 347 outs converted.

if you believe that Aurilia has exactly average range (i think he has less than that), he gets 350 chances. with a 949 FPTCT, that is 332 outs converted.


its an overly simplified view but still quite useful.