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Superdude
08-19-2006, 02:02 AM
Since the minor league season is coming to a close, I figured we'd better get a top 25 list going. Here's the rules of the Top 25 game...

-Below is the starting Top 25 list. Each person can change the list one time by either adding a player or swapping two players around. (ex. Aronchis: I'll swap Homer Bailey with Chris Dickerson...or...I'll replace Phil Valiquette with Derek Lutz)

note: Using the example above, if you replace Valiquette with Lutz, you don't have to put Lutz at #24. If you're adding a player not on the list, you can place them whereever you want.

1) Homer Bailey
2) Jay Bruce
3) Joey Votto
4) Johnny Cueto
5) Travis Wood
6) Camilo Vasquez
7) Drew Stubbs
8) Sam Lecure
9) Carlos Guevara
10) Tyler Pelland
11) David Shafer
12) Calvin Medlock
13) Paul Janish
14) Sean Watson
15) Rafael Gonzalez
16) Tonys Gutierrez
17) Phil Dumatrait
18) Eddie Valdez
19) Cody Strait
20) Carlos Gonzalez
21)Chris Valaika
22) Chris Dickerson
23) Adam Rosales
24) Phil Valiquette
25) Carlos Bohorquez

Go for it!

Patrick Bateman
08-19-2006, 02:16 AM
Syzmanski for Vasquez. Syzmanski to 16.

TOBTTReds
08-19-2006, 03:20 AM
Chris Valaika and BJ switch places: 16/21

BuckeyeRedleg
08-19-2006, 09:57 AM
Sean Watson to #12, Medlock to #14.

Good looking list.

Betterread
08-19-2006, 10:41 AM
Pretty good list - here's my top 15
1. Homer Bailey
2. Jay Bruce
3. Joey Votto
4. Travis Wood
5. Johnny Cueto
6. Tyler Pelland
7. Chris Valaika
8. Sam LeCure
9. Chris Denorfia
10. Phil Dumatrait
11. Drew Stubbs
12. Milton Loo
13. Paul Janish
14. Camilo Vazquez
15. Danny Dorn

Footnote: There are three 2006 draftees and one 10th rounder from 2004 that have displayed good arms that could move into prospect territory with a productive 2007: Josh Ravin, Jamie Arneson, Terrell Young and Jordan Smith

Superdude
08-19-2006, 01:24 PM
I'll replace Valiquette with Milton Loo and put him at #19.

1) Homer Bailey
2) Jay Bruce
3) Joey Votto
4) Johnny Cueto
5) Travis Wood
6) Drew Stubbs
7) Sam Lecure
8) Carlos Guevara
9) Tyler Pelland
10) David Shafer
11) Sean Watson
12) Paul Janish
13) Calvin Medlock
14) Rafael Gonzalez
15) Tonys Gutierrez
16) Chris Valaika
17) Phil Dumatrait
18) Eddie Valdez
19) Milton Loo
20) Cody Strait
21) Carlos Fisher
22) B.J. Szymanski
23) Chris Dickerson
24) Adam Rosales
25) Phil Valiquette

Here's the list after 4 moves.

New Fever
08-19-2006, 01:59 PM
I would like to repace Eddie Valdez with Jordan Smith at #18.

mth123
08-19-2006, 03:33 PM
Longtime lurker. 1st time poster.

Any rules as to who qualifies? Do guys like Deno, Olmedo or the Lizard qualify even though they have been in the majors?

If so, put the Lizard at number 8 and bump Chris Dickerson off.

chicoruiz
08-19-2006, 03:38 PM
I'll bump Chris Dickerson off the list and replace him with Wirfin Obispo.

Superdude
08-20-2006, 12:17 AM
Any rules as to who qualifies? Do guys like Deno, Olmedo or the Lizard qualify even though they have been in the majors?

I'll take Denorfia as a prospect. Ramirez and Olmedo have been up a little too much I think.


I'll bump Chris Dickerson off the list and replace him with Wirfin Obispo.

It sounds like Dickerson has worn out his welcome. Where do you want to put Obispo?

1) Homer Bailey
2) Jay Bruce
3) Joey Votto
4) Johnny Cueto
5) Travis Wood
6) Drew Stubbs
7) Sam Lecure
8) Carlos Guevara
9) Tyler Pelland
10) David Shafer
11) Sean Watson
12) Paul Janish
13) Calvin Medlock
14) Rafael Gonzalez
15) Tonys Gutierrez
16) Chris Valaika
17) Phil Dumatrait
18) Jordan Smith
19) Milton Loo
20) Cody Strait
21) Carlos Fisher
22) B.J. Szymanski
23) Chris Dickerson
24) Adam Rosales
25) Phil Valiquette

mth123
08-20-2006, 12:26 AM
Ok, since my Lizard pick was off base, I'll move Milton Loo to 12 and Janish to 19.

Superdude
08-20-2006, 12:47 AM
I'm changing the rules: 2 trades per person just to shake things up a little.

I'll replace Valiquette with Camilo Vasquez and place him at #13

1) Homer Bailey
2) Jay Bruce
3) Joey Votto
4) Johnny Cueto
5) Travis Wood
6) Drew Stubbs
7) Sam Lecure
8) Carlos Guevara
9) Tyler Pelland
10) David Shafer
11) Sean Watson
12) Milton Loo
13) Camilo Vasquez
14) Calvin Medlock
15) Rafael Gonzalez
16) Tonys Gutierrez
17) Chris Valaika
18) Phil Dumatrait
19) Jordan Smith
20) Paul Janish
21) Cody Strait
22) Carlos Fisher
23) B.J. Szymanski
24) Chris Dickerson
25) Adam Rosales

Patrick Bateman
08-20-2006, 01:49 AM
I'll use my 2nd trade:

Denorfia for Strait. Denorfia to 7.

Superdude
08-20-2006, 03:24 PM
1) Homer Bailey
2) Jay Bruce
3) Joey Votto
4) Johnny Cueto
5) Travis Wood
6) Drew Stubbs
7) Chris Denorfia
8)Sam Lecure
9) Carlos Guevara
10) Tyler Pelland
11) David Shafer
12) Sean Watson
13) Milton Loo
14) Camilo Vasquez
15) Calvin Medlock
16) Rafael Gonzalez
17) Tonys Gutierrez
18) Chris Valaika
19) Phil Dumatrait
20) Jordan Smith
21) Paul Janish
22) Carlos Fisher
23) B.J. Szymanski
24) Adam Rosales
25) Wirfin Obispo

Superdude
08-20-2006, 07:01 PM
Where should Obispo be? I know he throws hard, but does anyone know about his secondary stuff?

dougdirt
08-20-2006, 07:09 PM
There is very little information on him, but his stats are excellent in the Dominican Summer League. Problem is, not many people know what the competition is like there.


Team W L ERA G IP H R ER HR BB SO
DSL Reds 3 5 2.18 12 70.1 40 26 17 3 15 81

Superdude
08-20-2006, 09:15 PM
Team W L ERA G IP H R ER HR BB SO
DSL Reds 3 5 2.18 12 70.1 40 26 17 3 15 81

Yea...that's pretty solid no matter what league you're playing in. Do you know how old he is?

dougdirt
08-20-2006, 09:35 PM
He turns 22 next month.

mth123
08-20-2006, 10:24 PM
I'll use my second trade and put Brendan Harris at 9 and drop Phil Dumatrait

jmcclain19
08-21-2006, 02:19 AM
I weighted mine to give more credence to better performances at higher levels.

After taking a minute to browse thru these to see how everyone ended up this year, I have to say the Reds have a truly awful farm system above A ball. The near term helpful pieces are really few and far between.

1. Homer Bailey
2. Joey Votto
3. Jay Bruce
4. Travis Wood
5. Johnny Cueto
6. Calvin Medlock
7. Carlos Guevara
8. Javon Moran
9. Sam Lecure
10. Paul Janish
11. Phil Dumatrait
12. Carlos Fisher
13. Drew Anderson
14. Milton Loo
15. Tyler Pelland
16. David Shafer
17. Josh Hall
18. Chris Valaika
19. Logan Parker
20. Edward Valdez
21. Camilo Vazquez
22. Jordan Smith
23. Sean Watson
24. Richie Gardner
25. Thomas Pauly

Patrick Bateman
08-21-2006, 03:12 AM
I weighted mine to give more credence to better performances at higher levels.

After taking a minute to browse thru these to see how everyone ended up this year, I have to say the Reds have a truly awful farm system above A ball. The near term helpful pieces are really few and far between.

1. Homer Bailey
2. Joey Votto
3. Jay Bruce
4. Travis Wood
5. Johnny Cueto
6. Calvin Medlock
7. Carlos Guevara
8. Javon Moran
9. Sam Lecure
10. Paul Janish
11. Phil Dumatrait
12. Carlos Fisher
13. Drew Anderson
14. Milton Loo
15. Tyler Pelland
16. David Shafer
17. Josh Hall
18. Chris Valaika
19. Logan Parker
20. Edward Valdez
21. Camilo Vazquez
22. Jordan Smith
23. Sean Watson
24. Richie Gardner
25. Thomas Pauly

No Drew Stubbs?

jmcclain19
08-21-2006, 05:00 AM
No Drew Stubbs?

He wasn't even the 1st or 2nd best OF bat on the Mustangs this season.

He couldn't hit for power or average over 200PA, although the plate discipline hints that perhaps their is some hope for the future.

Not hitting in the hyper hitting climate of the Pioneer League is a 100 foot wide red flag for future success.

The world of baseball is littered with well intentioned guys who can field like a dream but can barely hit their weight. From the early looks of it, the Reds have themselves another in their midst.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-21-2006, 12:31 PM
I think Valaika should be higher.

guttle11
08-21-2006, 01:42 PM
He turns 22 next month.


What's that, like 28 in American?

dougdirt
08-21-2006, 01:43 PM
Hahahahaha, I hope not. Hopefully he will show up in the US next season and we will find out how old he actually is.

Patrick Bateman
08-21-2006, 03:09 PM
He wasn't even the 1st or 2nd best OF bat on the Mustangs this season.

He couldn't hit for power or average over 200PA, although the plate discipline hints that perhaps their is some hope for the future.

Not hitting in the hyper hitting climate of the Pioneer League is a 100 foot wide red flag for future success.

The world of baseball is littered with well intentioned guys who can field like a dream but can barely hit their weight. From the early looks of it, the Reds have themselves another in their midst.

Don't really disagree with that, but his potential is still immense. At the draft he was supposed to have as much raw power as anybody, and that's usually the last tool to develop. With decent plate discipline and great fielding he still has a shot to become a real good player.

His chances may not be great, but I think you have to respect the potential especially when the likes of Josh Hall (pretty much an AAAA player at this point) on the list.

Aronchis
08-21-2006, 04:16 PM
Anybody that puts Gardner and Pauly, two career shoulder damaged pitchers from the Bowden regime, over Drew Stubbs is not getting it.

Stubbs still has a chance, those guys don't.

Votto should be over Bruce as well.

Benihana
08-24-2006, 12:56 PM
1. Homer Bailey
2. Joey Votto
3. Jay Bruce
4. Travis Wood
5. Johnny Cueto
6. Phil Dumatrait
7. Chris Valaika
8. Milton Loo
9. Tyler Pelland
10. Calvin Medlock
11. Carlos Guevara
12. Javon Moran
13. Sam Lecure
14. Paul Janish
15. Carlos Fisher
(tie) Drew Stubbs
(tie) Camilo Vazquez

I'd say right now these are the only 17 guys in the system worth keeping a close eye on AT THIS POINT.

jmcclain19
08-25-2006, 03:57 PM
Anybody that puts Gardner and Pauly, two career shoulder damaged pitchers from the Bowden regime, over Drew Stubbs is not getting it.

Stubbs still has a chance, those guys don't.

Votto should be over Bruce as well.

Cool, apparently I don't "get it" that guys who don't hit in Pioneer league rarely pan out to anything worthwhile. And Gardner and Pauly were the Reds top two pitching prospects the last several years.

Betterread
08-26-2006, 01:43 PM
Cool, apparently I don't "get it" that guys who don't hit in Pioneer league rarely pan out to anything worthwhile. And Gardner and Pauly were the Reds top two pitching prospects the last several years.

In 2001, Edwin Encarnacion played for Billings and had an OBP of .307, a SLG of .389 and an avg of .261. He seems to be panning out, so your premise seems to be faulty.

dougdirt
08-26-2006, 02:02 PM
In 2001, Edwin Encarnacion played for Billings and had an OBP of .307, a SLG of .389 and an avg of .261. He seems to be panning out, so your premise seems to be faulty.
Edwin was also 18 and not 21.

Patrick Bateman
08-26-2006, 02:15 PM
In 2001, Edwin Encarnacion played for Billings and had an OBP of .307, a SLG of .389 and an avg of .261. He seems to be panning out, so your premise seems to be faulty.

That's only one example. Doing poorly at Billings at Stubbs' age isn't a great sign and jmcclain is right about that.

However, he's still very raw with tons of upside so that has to factor into consideration.

Doc. Scott
08-27-2006, 12:46 AM
That's only one example. Doing poorly at Billings at Stubbs' age isn't a great sign and jmcclain is right about that.

However, he's still very raw with tons of upside so that has to factor into consideration.

I think that's what some of Stubbs' detractors are saying. He was a college player in a major conference. He shouldn't be "raw" by first-pro-year standards.

Aronchis
08-27-2006, 07:45 AM
Cool, apparently I don't "get it" that guys who don't hit in Pioneer league rarely pan out to anything worthwhile. And Gardner and Pauly were the Reds top two pitching prospects the last several years.

They were? Both had one good season before they injured their shoulders. Pauly never pitched in AA even as a 22/23 year old.

Hence, your not getting it. The chances of them ever amounting to anything are light, very light. Gardner couldn't even pitch in high A effectively. In otherwords, his ceiling has been dramatically lowered. Which labrum surguries have a tendency to do.

jmcclain19
08-28-2006, 11:20 PM
They were? Both had one good season before they injured their shoulders.

Hence, your not getting it. The chances of them ever amounting to anything are light, very light. Gardner couldn't even pitch in high A effectively.

Except for the small fact that Gardner earned the Reds Minor League player of the year in 2004 after his performance in both A and AA. I don't care if you don't agree with me but at least get your facts in order.

I put them there mostly as a humor point, but it's certainly defensable. After the first handful of players, the Reds minor league system is absolutely awful, so arguing the ticky tack of which guy will never make it to AAA among the huge group of chaff currently earning a paycheck in the Reds system is really pointless.

mth123
09-02-2006, 11:01 AM
Bumping this so that you guys can teach me more with your comments about the guys on the list. I'd like to know more about some of the guys in the middle.

bradmu
09-03-2006, 12:03 AM
Where should Obispo be? I know he throws hard, but does anyone know about his secondary stuff?

Who is Wirfin Obispo? Where/When did we get him?

Patrick Bateman
09-03-2006, 02:30 PM
Who is Wirfin Obispo? Where/When did we get him?

I believe he is currently in the Dominican Republic and the Reds have been working on getting him a visa so he can come over. I think they have been tryin for a couple years now.

We don't know much about him except that he's a pitcher and supposedly has electric stuff. He's still quite young, si if we ever get him over to America he might be something special.