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redsupport
08-25-2006, 09:46 AM
It did not matter hier soir but with only 10outs remaining and the bases loaded what textbook did Narron read to let Milton hit. he then was removed only two outs later. Very enigmatic to me, but I guess Narron is a seer

justincredible
08-25-2006, 09:54 AM
I didn't see much of a problem in letting Milton hit. He is one of the better hitting pitchers around and was riding a 4 game hit streak. He was also pitching well. In the end it didn't matter, though.

RedsManRick
08-25-2006, 10:15 AM
Who do you pinch hit for him that's so much better? We don't exactly have a .300 hitter sitting on his hands in the dugout.

Always Red
08-25-2006, 10:18 AM
If Narron lets Milton hit, then he's an idiot for not doing so.

If Narron pinch hits for Milty, then he's an idiot for taking him out when he's pitching so well.

It's a classic no win situation for Narron, and a field day for those stone throwers who think the Reds would have an 8 game lead if anyone else were managing them.

Reds Nd2
08-25-2006, 10:20 AM
he then was removed only two outs later.

That's not true. Milton pitched another 1.2 innings after that at bat.

Razor Shines
08-25-2006, 10:22 AM
If Narron lets Milton hit, then he's an idiot for not doing so.

If Narron pinch hits for Milty, then he's an idiot for taking him out when he's pitching so well.

It's a classic no win situation for Narron, and a field day for those stone throwers who think the Reds would have an 8 game lead if anyone else were managing them.
Actually I don't think anyone would have blamed him for hitting for Milton in that situation. I don't think anyone would even bring it up. I can't imagine any threads being titled "Narron Pinch Hitting for Milton with the Bases Loaded - Dumb". But like I said in the other thread on this topic (although you wouldn't know from the title)


I think it just shows how little faith Narron has in the pen. Can you really blame him? Just Wednesday he sent the pen out there with a lead and they attemtped to burn down the entire stadium. Last night I hated the decision to let Milton hit, and I still don't like it, but I also thought "who else would I trust to pitch?". Milton was only around 65-70 pitches at the time, which is well below the point where he is extremely flammable. Seemed to me that Narron had the choice of placing his faith in our bullpen or our offense, obviously he went with the latter. So while I would probably not have let Milton hit, I can't find too much fault in his decision.

Always Red
08-25-2006, 10:39 AM
I think it just shows how little faith Narron has in the pen. Can you really blame him? Just Wednesday he sent the pen out there with a lead and they attemtped to burn down the entire stadium. Last night I hated the decision to let Milton hit, and I still don't like it, but I also thought "who else would I trust to pitch?". Milton was only around 65-70 pitches at the time, which is well below the point where he is extremely flammable. Seemed to me that Narron had the choice of placing his faith in our bullpen or our offense, obviously he went with the latter. So while I would probably not have let Milton hit, I can't find too much fault in his decision.

Razor, I do agree with your logic. But we both know that no matter what Narron decided, some folks on here would have criticized the decision, whatever decision was made. It just goes with the job, and a manager needs thick skin.

Razor Shines
08-25-2006, 10:51 AM
Razor, I do agree with your logic. But we both know that no matter what Narron decided, some folks on here would have criticized the decision, whatever decision was made. It just goes with the job, and a manager needs thick skin.
Well this is where I disagree with you. PHitting for Milton was the easy decision to make. And I agree there is a lot of Narron hate on this board that I don't feel he deserves, but I don't think even the people that really dislike him would criticized him for hitting for Milton. Because I refuse to believe that there are people on this board who hate Narron just to hate him. Maybe I'm wrong, but that would be beyond stupid.

Always Red
08-25-2006, 11:15 AM
Well this is where I disagree with you. PHitting for Milton was the easy decision to make. And I agree there is a lot of Narron hate on this board that I don't feel he deserves, but I don't think even the people that really dislike him would criticized him for hitting for Milton. Because I refuse to believe that there are people on this board who hate Narron just to hate him. Maybe I'm wrong, but that would be beyond stupid.
I don't think they hate him, personally.

I just have noticed that every decision he makes is the wrong one, in some people's eyes around here.. Like I said, he'd have been criticized for either move he could have made last night in that situation; I've noticed that all year here on this board. Surely I am not the only one who has noticed that around here? That's fine, that's what this place is for, to come and discuss the Redlegs, good and bad.

The Reds are in first place; the Reds still have plenty of weaknesses on this team. IMO, Jerry Narron is not this teams weakness. I don't love Narron, not at all. I didn't know him from Adam last year when he was hired to be bench coach. But he gets almost all of the blame for the losses, especially when the bullpen explodes in his face, and none of the credit when they win. The truth, of course, is somewhere in between.

ol'Sparky
08-25-2006, 11:16 AM
Jerry Narron is the lord !!:thumbup:

Newman4
08-25-2006, 11:21 AM
Ah, this one could go either way. I'm not a big Narron fan, but you have to pick and choose your Narron rants and this once doesn't have much substance.

OesterPoster
08-25-2006, 11:31 AM
Ditto Newman. I don't like a lot of his decisions, but I felt like this was the right one last night. It's the start of a load road trip, and I don't think Jerry wanted to waste too many relievers right off the bat. Milton swings a pretty good stick, so it was worth the risk.

SultanOfSwing
08-25-2006, 11:31 AM
Dislike (or even hatred) of certain personnel seems to be contagious and have a domino effect. (If "The Trade" had never been made, do you think Krivsky's recent acquisitions would be so harshly criticized, if at all? It seems before that he was a God. After, just a lucky idiot.)

Earlier in the year people questioned Narron's decision-making with lineups and bullpen usage. Now it is popular to criticize anything and everything we personally don't agree with or like. And yet, I would venture to guess, few if any of us have managed a baseball team of any consequence (much less a pro team).

I believe if we were to step back and view Narron's job as a whole, we should be very pleased. He has had to juggle a lot of players in an ever-changing clubhouse. And much too our chagrin, Narron knows more about the Cincinnati Reds in 2006 than we could ever hope to know.

He may not have name recognicition, but he gets the job done. Who is to say he has not played a huge part in this teams success? He just maybe the catalyst. No matter, he is the Manager of the Cincinnati Reds. Therefore, he is our manager, and deserves our full support.

91OSUAlum
08-25-2006, 11:31 AM
Guys, I think it was a big picture deal. He has just spent a few of his bullpen guys the day before(only to watch them get torched) and I think this is a good deal. He had faith in how it was going and how the Reds were going to score more runs. Tough call but I think it was the right call.

SunDeck
08-25-2006, 12:21 PM
He was quoted about that situation in the Enquirer this morning:


"I told (Bucky Dent) that Milton was going to come up with bases loaded in 3-2 game and I was going to let him hit," Narron said.

Narron did so because Milton's pitch count was so low - in the high 50s - and he was pitching well. The other factor was Narron's confidence that the Reds would score.

"That was a big part of it," he said. "I knew our lineup would come up at least once more."

The confidence paid off.

flyer85
08-25-2006, 01:08 PM
1) Milton has blown up in numerous games this year in the later innings(6th, 7th) thus he wasn't a good bet to hold the Giants scoreless. (he did but he was more likely to get knocked around a bit).

2) A big hit and extending the inning could have put the game away right there. Narron never did use Javy to PH.

If Milton was a pitcher who gets stronger in the later inning and was likely to pitch effectively into the 8th the move would have made sense but the following two numbers make it highly doubtful

after the 3rd inning Milton loses effectiveness as hip OPS jumps to .852(.691 before).
after 60 pitches Milton loses effectiveness as his his OPS skyrockets(up close to 1.000).

The numbers tell you that from the 4th inning and above 60 pitches Milton is on borrowed time and is a high risk gamble to pitch effectively. Narron ignored the numbers and rolled the dice and got lucky last night. The majority of the time(and as we have seen earlier this year) it would not have ended well.