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View Full Version : In Game Management (Not a bash Jerry Thread)



mth123
08-27-2006, 09:40 AM
It seems that this year there have been a number of questionable ideas and decisions during games. Many of us react angrily and call for Narron's head and I too believe that some of this stuff has cost us games. This has me wondering about the decision process. Sparky Anderson used to credit George Scherger with helping him run the game. Joe Torre credited Don Zimmer a lot. It seems that good managers get input from the coaches on this stuff. I wonder:

Where are the coaches when some of these moves are made?

Are these ideas coming from the staff to Narron?

Is the staff a bunch of yes men who just agree with Narron no matter the idea?

Are they all on the same misguided page?

Is Narron a tyrant who just won't listen?

Could this be fixed with an upgrade to the coaching staff (maybe we could keep Narron's leadership and other good qualities and still improve in this area)?

I'd really like to know this. Perhaps some one with more connection to on field activity can give us some insight on how this works. I suspect every Manager is a little different.

redsmetz
08-27-2006, 09:44 AM
Good questions, MTH. I have wondered some this year whether pitching decisions were being impeded with Tom Hume being the Interim pitching coach. I don't know enough about Bucky Dent to know his worth as a bench coach.

I do agree that a good bench coach is imperative to successful ballclub.

Ltlabner
08-27-2006, 09:57 AM
MTH,

Great constructive questions. I think you raise a good point.

My only real beef with Jerry is how he handles the pitching staff because I think that's what will really cost this team in the long run. He might made a weird decision that might cost us a run or two, or even a game in the short-term. But dinging up the pitching staff will sink us for the long term.

A lot of times I've wondered, where the heck is Tommy Hume when Arroyo is left in for a complete game loss? Where is boom-boom when Milton is clearly out of gas? Where is Tom saying "Jer, I don't think Weathers has it tonight"?

Maybe Verne would do things so totally differently we'd rarely see these pitching management gaffes. Hard to say.

But I think Hume is as culpable as Narron on these pitching staff errors. It's HIS pitching staff - he needs to be giving his manager good advice and data. As you pointed out, he's either agreeing with these moves (a big problem), a total yes man (a bigger problem) or is being over-ruled (yet an even bigger problem).

Always Red
08-27-2006, 10:01 AM
Those are excellent questions, mth. I've often wondered if this team misses Vern Ruhle- they seemed to pitch so much better last year once he took over from Gully.

I would imagine that some managers have different styles, some making all of the decisions, and some of the younger, newer guys, maybe less sure of themselves, polling the coaching staff before making some moves? Not sure, but I'd love to know!

westofyou
08-27-2006, 12:57 PM
Are these ideas coming from the staff to Narron?

When Miley was fired Narron made it clear that he didn't agree with many of Daves methods in the dugout, chances and that since Narron wasn't Daves pick (IIRC) that Dave didn't give a rats behind what Jerry thought.

But then again I'm not sure what Dave gave a rats behind about anyway.

Narron has surrounded himself with coaches that are his peers (in era played) and Dent and he were teammates, chances are they are on the same page on most things.

steig
08-27-2006, 01:07 PM
Narron is working with more information than we have when we watch a game. He gets info on how a pitcher feels that day physically or if they just aren't feeling there location that day. In an ideal world each relief pitcher should be able to give at least one good inning each time asked. But over the course of the year they have bad days with their arms, legs, back, etc. Pitching decisions are always the most questioned decisions for every team and I have come to believe that it is because the coach has more information that the fans and media.

I would be far more concerned over game decisions such as the use of pinch runners and when to pinch hit. It's not like Narron is pinch running Larue while having Deon Sanders pinch hit. Now if he did something like that then we should really wonder what is going on in the dugout.