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View Full Version : Someone explain this (Team Clark or anyone)



Brutus
08-29-2006, 04:10 PM
Today, in lieu of Jonny Gomes being placed on the DL, the Devil Rays recalled outfielder Delmon Young.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but September 1 is just 2 days away, meaning they could call him up and his arbitration clock would not start.

But if I'm not mistaken, because it's August 29, his being called up now would start his arbitration clock for this entire year, would it not?

What's the advantage of doing this? Is there a rule that covers this I'm not aware of? To me, this makes no sense whatsoever. Why waste a year of the kid's arbitration when you can wait two more days and he wouldn't be tacked for the entire year.

Help! I don't get this one.

Danny Serafini
08-29-2006, 04:35 PM
Arb time is determined by days of service, it's not like options where the entire year is automatically covered. Bringing him up now instead of 9/1 only adds three days of service time, which in the grand scheme of things is virtually nothing.

Brutus
08-29-2006, 04:40 PM
Arb time is determined by days of service, it's not like options where the entire year is automatically covered. Bringing him up now instead of 9/1 only adds three days of service time, which in the grand scheme of things is virtually nothing.

September call-ups don't count against service time, correct?

I thought it was 3-years of participation regardless of how many days you played. But thanks for the response, apparently that was not the case - I must have been assuming it worked like options.

Brutus
08-29-2006, 04:49 PM
Danny, I just read the MLB rules on service time and arbitration. I understand it now. Thanks!

Team Clark
08-29-2006, 04:58 PM
Danny, I just read the MLB rules on service time and arbitration. I understand it now. Thanks!

Beat me to it.

I was against bringing Delmon up. Delmon has hit approximately .150 since the All Star break and is "going through the motions". I just saw him in Toledo and he was on "operation shutdown". Joe Maddon wants him up and sees it as an opportunity to motivate him. Could work, could backfire. From Joe's POV he has nothing to lose. I see it as rewarding him for pouting and being a jerk. He has not EARNED this opportunity.

Highlifeman21
08-29-2006, 05:02 PM
Beat me to it.

I was against bringing Delmon up. Delmon has hit approximately .150 since the All Star break and is "going through the motions". I just saw him in Toledo and he was on "operation shutdown". Joe Maddon wants him up and sees it as an opportunity to motivate him. Could work, could backfire. From Joe's POV he has nothing to lose. I see it as rewarding him for pouting and being a jerk. He has not EARNED this opportunity.


But has he worked on his bat throwing during that time?

Brutus
08-29-2006, 05:02 PM
I was definitely surprised at the timing as well. I saw that he's not really been hitting very well this season. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets up and starts raking though, but I agree with Team Clark that it doesn't mean he earned the opportunity - especially given his attitude.

Roy Tucker
08-29-2006, 05:02 PM
Some words of advice to Delmon from a Tampa columnist...

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/08/28/Rays/Hey__Delmon__Some_wor.shtml

Team Clark
08-29-2006, 05:07 PM
But has he worked on his bat throwing during that time?


Yes indeed. He can now hit an umpire in the face from the dugout. Excellent wrists.

Highlifeman21
08-29-2006, 05:11 PM
Yes indeed. He can now hit an umpire in the face from the dugout. Excellent wrists.

You just can't teach or coach that. That's natural ability, at its finest.

crazybob60
08-29-2006, 05:11 PM
I have a bad feeling about this one as well. How many days did he end up getting for throwing that bat, again? He needed to stay down in the minors for the rest of the season in my books just for that incident and didn't he also do something else at the beginning of the season as well or was that last year?

Team Clark
08-29-2006, 05:13 PM
I have a bad feeling about this one as well. How many days did he end up getting for throwing that bat, again? He needed to stay down in the minors for the rest of the season in my books just for that incident and didn't he also do something else at the beginning of the season as well or was that last year?

He decided to do the cha cha with an umpire and got a few days for that. I was told that his next "serious" infraction would net him 90 days. That's a long time.

Team Clark
08-29-2006, 05:17 PM
I did speak with Delmon at length when I was in Toledo and Louisville. I got along with him, I just do not respect him. I did a lot of one on one with Delmon and found him to be engaging as long as things were his idea. It's tough to get him to listen.

In his defense Dimitri once told me that Delmon has a lot of "hood" in him and he's not sure when Delmon will grow up. Keep in mind this is coming from Dimitri who I have been out with on many occasions and has absolutely no morals or boundaries. He's a lot of fun I can tell you that.

IslandRed
08-29-2006, 05:22 PM
Danny, I just read the MLB rules on service time and arbitration. I understand it now. Thanks!

Good on ya.

I think what gets most people confused in regards to September callups is that the ability to expand is to 40 -- the same number as the 40-man roster -- so they interpret it as meaning guys on the 40-man can play for the big club without being on the 25-man, and if they're not on the 25-man they're not accruing service time.

In reality, there's no such thing as the "25-man roster" in the MLB rules. There's the major-league roster (aka 40-man) and the active roster, which just happens to have a limit of 25 most of the time. On September 1, the active roster limit is raised to 40. That's it. Nothing else changes. Players still have to be called up and placed on the active roster before they can play in a MLB game. And if they're on the active roster that day, it counts toward MLB service time.

REDREAD
08-29-2006, 05:34 PM
September call-ups don't count against service time, correct?

I thought it was 3-years of participation regardless of how many days you played. But thanks for the response, apparently that was not the case - I must have been assuming it worked like options.

When they calculate the 3 years for arbitration, it's actually based on total number of games played.

There's also a group called "Super 2" players. These are the top 20 percent of 2 year players in terms of service time. Usually clubs call people up later to avoid someone like Young from getting "Super 2" eligiblity. For example, there's plenty of rookies that were called up this year that won't accumulate a full year of service time (called up in May, for instance). Those guys are protected by the "Super 2" rule. This was intended to prevent the owners from timing the callups so a guy had 2.9 years of service time (and thus would be ineligible for arbitration if 3 full years was required).

So basically, Delmon is not going to be arb eligible until after the 2010 season.

REDREAD
08-29-2006, 05:38 PM
Personally, I think it's a good idea to call up Delmon.

What's the alternative? Let him continue to tank in the minors and become a worthless commodity while his attitude gets worse?

It's no secret the Devil Rays were trying to delay his advancement to the majors as much as possible. He has a right to be upset. Hopefully, now that he's in the majors, they can repair the relationship and get him to move forward.

The hardass approach doesn't work on everyone. Sometimes it gives the opposite result that is intended. It was time for the Rays to try something different. I applaud them for this.

Brutus
08-29-2006, 05:48 PM
Island and REDREAD, thanks for the further clarifications.

Team Clark, is Delmon a big wrestling fan like his brother is? haha

Team Clark
08-29-2006, 06:17 PM
Island and REDREAD, thanks for the further clarifications.

Team Clark, is Delmon a big wrestling fan like his brother is? haha


I never asked him, but if I remember I will be happy too.

Team Clark
08-29-2006, 09:58 PM
It's no secret the Devil Rays were trying to delay his advancement to the majors as much as possible. He has a right to be upset. Hopefully, now that he's in the majors, they can repair the relationship and get him to move forward.


I'm not sure exactly what context this statement is in. This is the only bad part of a Message Board. No one in the D-Rays organization was "trying to delay" his advancement. IMO, and many others as well, Delmon was at the correct level. Keep in mind, since returning from his suspension he has hit below .200. You want to prove someone, whomever that is, wrong..... well then you get after it, bust your butt and play hard. Little if any of that was witnessed.

Delmon talks about pride but doesn't show it. He uses terms like character and responsibility like they are punchlines. You have to understand I have been directly engaged or in close proximity of him on the field and in the clubhouse. Like I said, I like him.....but I do not respect him. In his eyes everyone he meets owes him something. No one and I mean absolutely no one (except Upton and Dukes) in Durham or Tampa's clubhouse respects him. What does that say about him?

Having said that, I ask you this... why wouldn't we want him to develop into a .330 30 HR 125 RBI guy? He's certainly capable. He's cost effective for us and affords us the ability to move someone else in the offseason to get us another starting pitcher. Delmon has value as a baseball player. His value outside of that is what is questionable.