PDA

View Full Version : Are we a .500 team if we still have FeLo and Kearns?



He's Dunn It
08-30-2006, 01:31 AM
I know that many aspects of this trade have been kicked around, but I'm wondering everyone's thoughts if we're a .500 team without making this trade.

Seeing that there wasn't much in the way of middle relief available or traded, I don't think it's a fair answer to say we could have gotten help elsewhere. After almost throwing my computer monitor out the window when I first read about the trade, I love the fact we've got a bullpen that's at the very least highly average after the pussballers we were running out there.

I'm so excited to be talking Reds playoff baseball as we head into Labor Day weekend. It has been way too long.

Cormier just stuck it to the Dodgers...let's get a run and get a win here!

It's nice to see Dunn back in the two hole. For a guy who plays stats so much, it's good to see our de-loved manager get him back where he's best.

killuminati35
08-30-2006, 02:28 AM
I still don't know what to think of the trade. The fact that we are only 2 games over .500, hopefully 3 after tonight doesn't really sit well. The trade really was a trade for a current push for the playoffs and well were are not looking to hot now.


We'll see though.

dman
08-30-2006, 10:43 AM
I think that FeLo and Kearns both were/are too streaky to have been the "impact" players that it would have taken to pull this team out of their funk. Bottom line is it's August and the same 3 or 4 players that were carrying this team early on have continued to carry them to this point, and probably are just flat out exhausted by now.

George Anderson
08-30-2006, 11:07 AM
If we still had Kearns and Lopez then Freel and Aurilia would be seeing less playing time. I dont see our record being that much different either way but I do prefer to see Freel and Aurilia simply because of the spark they seem to give the team. Not to mention the better defense we are seeing now.

2001MUgrad
08-30-2006, 11:47 AM
Its hard to say, but everyone was giving Narron and Wayne credit when this team looked playoff bound. I think they should be called out for the struggles as well. This team as a whole was leading the wild card forever and a day. They were even close to 10 games over .500 at one point in July I beleive, could be wrong on that. But, the team is a completely different team than the one that was in 1st place in the NL Central in June(I think anyway). You cannot expect the same results with so much turnover. Not that trying is a bad thing. But, trying with very marginal players bullpen pitchers is questionable at that. Guardado is the only pitcher that I have been the least bit impressed with and he is on the shelf for who knows how long.
The team was in first place for a reason regardless of the problems. You took away 2 everyday players and a completely different BP and you expect your problems solved?? It was a try, not sure it was a good one though. Again, very marginal players added. Not sure exactly what was expected.

WMR
08-30-2006, 12:24 PM
The existence of Royce Clayton on this roster is the ultimate indictment of why Felipe should have been left alone.

durl
08-30-2006, 03:32 PM
If you just look at the numbers, our offense hasn't dropped since the trade but our pitching has improved (the numbers I saw were before the current slump). Plus Lopez has committed 7-8 more errors since the trade.

pedro
08-30-2006, 03:47 PM
I Plus Lopez has committed 7-8 more errors since the trade.

10 IIRC.

lawnboy33
08-30-2006, 07:38 PM
Yeah this what a good trade?? NOT!! What we got were two pitchers that aren't or have'nt even helped our team. Actually we have lost many games because of them. A shortstop who has no power and can't hit or field. If we would have left things alone we would be up 5 games!!!

Matt700wlw
08-30-2006, 08:16 PM
Since the All-Star break, I would bet they've lost more games with Todd Coffey on the mound than Bill Bray. I don't have the numbers, or anything, I would just guess that they have.

Kearns out opened the door for Freel, and Felipe out has opened the door for EE.

Jury's still out on Majewski - get him healthy and come back to me.

Redsnake
08-30-2006, 08:19 PM
If the Reds got a healthy Majewski then it would be better team. Also if Lopez is still on this team then we would see more Aurilla over E.E. And Kearns is struggling while Freel has provided a spark.

Really, this subject is getting old!!

Falls City Beer
08-30-2006, 08:23 PM
The record wouldn't be greatly different.

lawnboy33
08-30-2006, 08:26 PM
You guys aren't thinking very much! I know it's getting old! We are reminded everyday of how bad a trade it was.. Ok I like are line up all Im saying is we could have gotten way more for those two, perhaps a number 3-4 pitcher and we could be in a better situation right now. Not signing guys with 6+ era

Matt700wlw
08-30-2006, 08:30 PM
The record wouldn't be greatly different.

I don't think so either, it may swing a few games here or there, but nothing of much impact....they are what they are, an average to maybe a a little above average team in a pretty crappy league.

mth123
08-30-2006, 09:51 PM
The answer wasn't to keep Felo and Kearns. They were the obvious candidates to be traded. The answer was to get some real help in return.

Newman4
08-30-2006, 11:12 PM
the pussballers we were running out there.


You should get rep points for using the term "pussballers" lol. Nice term. :D :thumbup:

He's Dunn It
08-31-2006, 01:21 AM
Thanks Newman...I'd love 'em.

George Anderson
08-31-2006, 01:23 AM
You guys aren't thinking very much! I know it's getting old! Im saying is we could have gotten way more for those two, perhaps a number 3-4 pitcher and we could be in a better situation right now.

I am pretty sure that Krivsky shopped the market quite well and if a quality 3-4 pitcher for Kearns and Lopez was out there I am quite sure he would have landed him. Its not like Washington was the first and only team he called looking for pitching.

Rojo
08-31-2006, 02:20 AM
The answer wasn't to keep Felo and Kearns. They were the obvious candidates to be traded. The answer was to get some real help in return.

Yep!

REDREAD
08-31-2006, 03:06 AM
If we still had Kearns and Lopez then Freel and Aurilia would be seeing less playing time. I dont see our record being that much different either way but I do prefer to see Freel and Aurilia simply because of the spark they seem to give the team. Not to mention the better defense we are seeing now.


Freel has a 604 OPS in August. That's killing us. Kearns has been at 769 OPS with Wash. Now Freel did have a good July, but I don't have his full "since the trade" split.

But Freel is a big reason why the Reds have swooned.

As bad as Felipe was defensively, he's better than Clayton and Aurillia.

Given that we have gotten nothing out of "the trade", other than the first 12 innings of Bray that were good, it's hard to see us being any worse had the trade not been made.

91OSUAlum
08-31-2006, 08:49 AM
We would still be a .500 team. Lopez and Kearns were not a loss. They were traded to improve the bullpen, which has been better. It also showed the team and the fans they would not stand pat as they have the last 6 years.

We were a .500 team before the trade, and we are after. It has to do with poor pitch selection and no willingness to do the little things. The offseason is where the changes will occur.

Always Red
08-31-2006, 09:38 AM
Kearns' OPS has been right about .700 for August, and has shown signs of life over the last week; FeLo has been productive at the plate, but has had ~10 errors with the Nats. He's going to score over 100 runs this year, probably, and has had another good year at the plate.

I love Freel, but I don't think he's an everyday player on my team, if I could pick it. He's the 9th guy, a guy that can play a lot of positions well, and can give you instant offense. History shows he wears down when he plays for extended periods.

The job was Deno's to lose, the FO said so in print right after the trade. And Deno promptly went out and lost it, partly due to his own poor play, and partly due to Freel grabbing the job by the throat, which Deno should have also done. Freels own fine play in July kept Deno from getting more of a chance.

With Kearns and Lopez, this team would have been right where it always was with them, no better than .500. I do also think the trade was made for immediate reults this year, in the bullpen, but next year is when we will see those results.

George Anderson
08-31-2006, 10:08 AM
Freel has a 604 OPS in August. That's killing us. Kearns has been at 769 OPS with Wash. Now Freel did have a good July, but I don't have his full "since the trade" split.

But Freel is a big reason why the Reds have swooned.

As bad as Felipe was defensively, he's better than Clayton and Aurillia.

Given that we have gotten nothing out of "the trade", other than the first 12 innings of Bray that were good, it's hard to see us being any worse had the trade not been made.


Good points, however one other positive from the trade is Encarnacion has seen much more playing time since he doesnt have to split time with Aurilia. Also I dont see how you can say Freel is a big reason the Reds have swooned. I see having Freel in the lineup as opposed to Kearns at the very least a wash. I look at Freels numbers and other intangibles he brings I dont see how losing Kearns is that big of a deal. I would like to see what Freels OPS stat is since the trade.